Rebel Dream

[Jedi Master Carr]

This is the new NJO book and it is a two parter. So far it is pretty good I like how Wedge is given center attention in the story I also like how it is changing Wedge and Luke have decided that the NR is dead and even though there is still an Advisor council they have reset up the Rebel Alliance I am only about 1/3 into the book so I am curious how it all turns out. I am also surprised the turn of events with Viqi she still finds ways to stay a float and manipulate her way through everything

[Jedieb]

I picked it up this week also. The scene with Wedge and and the New Advisory Council was hilarious. I like the direction the book seems to be taking the war in. Just like the good old days of the Rebellion.

[Nichos Marr]

Read it about a week before it came out :)

I was very impressed to see that Allston still has his magical touch and he's rekindled any interests I've lost in the NJO. It was great to see Wedge have a significant part and the space battles that took place in that book were awesome. I loved how Wedge basically took charge of the situation and made Pwoe look like an a$$. The return of some Wraith members was also a good surprise.

This book was 9.5/10 for me.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I just finished it last night and I have to say I loved it, I liked it a lot better than DJ, and only second to Star By Star. I also think it set up the next book real well and it gets me worried that somebody might not make it out of the next book Luke, Mara, Talaria, and several others mostly wraiths go to Coruscant to try to uncover Luke's vision, he is seeing something bad happening at Coruscant, no idea what, and I am worried somebody on that team might die mainly Mara or Talari, don't think they would kill of Luke in a PB. Then there is the stuff going on in Borriss, I am concerned there mainly for Lando, if they killed off one major character in a PB my money would be on him. Of course nobody major could die (except maybe for Viqi man she seems to keep on surviving and here luck may run out) I guess we will have to wait and see

[ReaperFett]

Carr, do you mean Tahiri and Borleias? Not read yet, but they sounded close, and I know theyre involved :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah I must have mispelled them I was typing so fast I didn't bother to see if they were correct spelling. :)

[Jedieb]

I liked RD a great deal. Nice too see a characer like Wedge battle the Vong with nothing but cunning and guile. Sometimes I think the NJO has shied away from characters like Wedge and Lando because they can't match up physically with the Vong. I really like the way they've brought Lando and his war droids into the series lately. The only thing that made me flinch was the following Kyp stroking;

"And he didn't think he'd be as terribly drained as Luke by the technique. He was stronger in the Force than Luke Skywalker.
He'd known that almost since they'd met--that he had more pure power than the legendary Jedi Master. But this was, perhaps, the first time he'd been able to say it to himself without a little thrill of pride. He was just stronger, and that was all. It usually didn't matter. Now it did."

The EU has always tried to portray Kyp this way and I've never liked it. What I wouldn't give for an EP3 line of dialogue to wipe all of this Kyp nonsense away. Something like; "The twins are just as powerful as their father!" Then you'd have some EU author struggle to set things right with a whole explanation about Luke tapping into powers that were long buried, blah, blah, blah... And none of this Lucas can't do that nonsense, if he can change his own work by having Greedo shoot first then you can bet he'll slap down Kyp's power rankings without thinking twice. Unless someone wants to say that Kyp is even more powerful than Anakin and Palpatine?

[Jedi Master Carr]

But was it more that Kyp thought he was stronger than Luke? I thought he just learned from Luke's mistake or something like that, also he is flirting with the dark side of the force which can make things easier to do. I am still not convinced that Kyp is not yet turned from the dark side he needs to prove it to me by doing something nobel and courageous.

[ReaperFett]

Aaron Allston himself says this is Kyp's opinion. Nothing more.


And anyway, there are many degrees of strength. By your theory, Leia is the most powerful Jedi also. No way. But if you change the wording oh so slightly, youd be right.

[Jedieb]

It's not just that it's Kyp's opinion, there's EU evidence to back it up. Just look at what happened to Kyp after he did Luke's trick. He was exhausted, but not nearly to the degree that Luke was. There have also been other EU inferences to Kyp being stronger in the Force than Luke. The comic Leviathan has Luke saying something along the lines of "Kyp may be the strongest of all the Jedi." Then there's their encounter on Yavin4 which sent Luke into a coma. Exar Kun or not, paragraphs like the one above suggest it had all to do with Kyp's power level. Even Luke's discovery of Kyp's power sent knocked him on his butt, literally. To me, even from the beginning Kyp was introduced as a character that was stronger in the Force than Luke. That sucks beyond reason. C'Baoth at least had age, experience, the full benefit of proper Jedi training, and great power. But Kyp?

As for Leia, the EU has never chosen to use her in that manner, except occasionally. (Her duel with a Force sensitive Hutt is one of the few examples of her abilities.) Why can't she be as powerful as Luke? Cuz' she's a chick?! I can understand her lack of power being a result of her never developing her Force skills. Her being Luke's twin and Anakin's daughter would suggest that she could be every bit as powerful as Luke, Adi Gala(sp?) or the Dark Woman, provided she developed her powers. The potential is there. Even Yoda thought she had the potential to defeat Vader and Palpatine so why shouldn't we?

[ReaperFett]

Just look at what happened to Kyp after he did Luke's trick. He was exhausted, but not nearly to the degree that Luke was
Actually, you can put that down to author bias. Zahn's few of the force is diffrent from Lucas'. Stackpole agrees with Zahn's way. Yes, it means that in theory Kyp did it easier, but Id rather it was this way over Stackpoles :)



The comic Leviathan has Luke saying something along the lines of "Kyp may be the strongest of all the Jedi."
He says he could become the greatest of us all(Exact words, I checked). Which is true, he COULD.



Then there's their encounter on Yavin4 which sent Luke into a coma. Exar Kun or not, paragraphs like the one above suggest it had all to do with Kyp's power level
I always felt it was Kun's doing



Even Luke's discovery of Kyp's power sent knocked him on his butt, literally
Ah, but what does that mean? It doesnt mean that the pure force did it. It could be the fact he has mentally made himself defensive, and that was a subconceius push. And remember, the scanner came up RED. Noone elses did.



To me, even from the beginning Kyp was introduced as a character that was stronger in the Force than Luke
Is Yoda stronger in the force than Vader? Yes and no. It all depends how you argue it. It could just mean Kyp has more raw power or potential. But Lukes harmonisation with the force makes him the better Jedi.





And about Leia. My argument was this. She barely ever trained. She was busy doing other things. So, she never developed fully. Now, is she as strong in the force as Luke? can be yes, can be no.

[ReaperFett]

Oh, and this is what someone said on TF.N, in one of the many arguments of this(This is a daily thing for me :)


Luke chooses to hold himself back. Kyp does not. Skywalker has been to the Dark side and back - the farm boy knows his stuff.
Remember Mara ranting at Luke in VOTF? That'd hold him back. Kyp has no such qualms(And aint going dark:))

[Jedi Master Carr]

Thats Kyps problem and could be his downfall if he don't watch out he has been flirting with the darkside the entire series and he still could fall, if he is not careful.

[Jedieb]

Actually, you can put that down to author bias. Zahn's few of the force is diffrent from Lucas'. Stackpole agrees with Zahn's way. Yes, it means that in theory Kyp did it easier, but Id rather it was this way over Stackpoles

Author bias? How can something as arbitrary as author bias have an effect on the canon that is SW EU? ;)


Ah, but what does that mean? It doesnt mean that the pure force did it. It could be the fact he has mentally made himself defensive, and that was a subconceius push. And remember, the scanner came up RED. Noone elses did.

Barrier, shmabarrier, it was portrayed in the novel that Kyp's power was so great that it literally knocked Luke over. Luke even said something along the lines of "Kyp you have tremendous power!" Not "Kyp, that's a hell of a defensive mental barrier you've got there!"

[ReaperFett]

Author bias? How can something as arbitrary as author bias have an effect on the canon that is SW EU?
Hey, we can work a fix :)


Barrier, shmabarrier, it was portrayed in the novel that Kyp's power was so great that it literally knocked Luke over. Luke even said something along the lines of "Kyp you have tremendous power!" Not "Kyp, that's a hell of a defensive mental barrier you've got there!"
Now remember how many times Luke had done this, and remember that he never read about it. How would he know? :)

[Chaos Alexander]

i just don't like Kyp plain and simple. My thoughts....

He has more Raw Power that Luke. Why? He is very agressive. To the point where it is scary. Luke is very Peaceful. He doesn't really do the aggressive thing. I think he may have more "Force Stamina" if there such a thing, but not a quick raw burst.

Leia, she could have been good. Yoda felt like she could kick some A-Hole, but she has not trained. I think she may could have been close to an equal, but not fully do to the fact of her "Lets talk about this." Personality.