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[neo_sapien]

As Captain Spock said, only Nixon could go to China.

I've been a dedicated fleet RPer nonstop for 19 months. RPing as the empire is an excessive burden, as is RPing as the republic. Not only that, it's an excessive burden to the entire roleplay. I believe that we should turn the Empire and the New Republic into two NPC entities, where no one would be able to roleplay as them, save to prosecute a defense of a major planet in the event that another group wishes to take that planet. For example, someone wishes to take Coruscant or Thyferra or Kuat, someone should be there to make certain it's realistic.

If we declared the NR and the empire NPC, it would likely relieve a good deal of the burden, rid the roleplay of military stagnancy and reinitiate IC conflict. This could accompany a fleet cap of the size of the Conclave's current fleet in km, so as to make sure there are no possible RP-stifling juggernauts. Rogue factions of the empire/NR could be excluded from NPC, but would not command an overwhelming amount of forces as in the past, so as to avoid stifling one's ability to militarily roleplay.

I can think of nothing else to revive the situation. This experiment in controlling an entire group of hundreds/thousands of planets with only a few RPers is clearly a failure and too much of a strain, and so the situation should be rethought beyond conventional means.

[Charley]

But this would only spark a proliferation of splinter factions and subsequent planet grabbings from the NPC NR and Empire.

Not sure whats really gained IMO.

[neo_sapien]

But this would only spark a proliferation of splinter factions and subsequent planet grabbings from the NPC NR and Empire.

That, in and of itself, would be an exceptional gain. It would incite activity, competition, the various things we're here for.

[Charley]

so you want to wipe TGE's entire set of assets clean?

[neo_sapien]

TGE would essentially become NPC. The assets would still be there, but not under the control of roleplayers.

[Charley]

Still kinda confused. How would the assets replenish. What if somebody went to war against them...or something to that effect?

[neo_sapien]

Repair yards could be applied to the two NPC groups, and we could also say that 1.5km of randomised ships are produced per month by each NPC group, as opposed to 7km/month.

Although, I think my intent (although my thoughts have yet to coalesce on this matter) is to largely draw conflict away from the 2 NPCs. Conflict would still occur, but sparingly, seeing as how a war against the NR or the imperial NPC would be met with colossal resistance. A conflict with either NPC would have to be a calculated move, because of the inherent danger that either NPC's security forces would wipe out an invading force.

[Charley]

Why would anybody want to do the shipyard math for an NPC group he won't be roleplaying for anyways.

[neo_sapien]

I'm sure we could find a way to simplify it-3 new strike cruisers and accompanying fighters per month per NPC, maybe.

[Charley]

I think it would be much simpler to just claim "infinite ships". I mean, if they're NPC anyways, you can still destroy as many of the ships as you want, since you're writing the NPC.

I dunno...this idea is just not giving me a good feeling.

[neo_sapien]

What's the alternative? It's been 15 months since Frih'Tan V. This way, we would get to start over again, and have another chance at action.

[Charley]

And deny those who want to RP as the NR or Empire, specifically.

[neo_sapien]

point taken.

[Sumor Rayial]

And deny those who want to RP as the NR or Empire, specifically.

Is there really that many of them? Not that I can see. I mean really can any of our groups say that their first and only character is NR or Imp? I don't know about TGE or NR but the entirety of the Conclave is alts. Honestly other than maybe Garm I don't (to MY knowledge) think there are any pure primary PCs.

I don't know. I think it's a decent idea, and honestly if it happened I'd just toss the Conclave out. I mean we've been in existance for close to 3 months and haven't done much of anything really.

I think we should hear from others before squashing the idea.

[neo_sapien]

I think so too. We have a right to have some action around here, and we should do whatever is possible to that end. Hell, I want a battle.

[Mr. President]

I think it's a bad idea (No offense intended DV). I have two TGE characters (granted one is a Force User) but the other isn't. I think the lack of TGE and TNR members has made it more difficult for fleet RP, but making them both NPC is not, in my opinion, a good idea.

I like, when the opportunity presents itself, to fleet RP. It's fun because it appears I take it from a different perspective than most people do, in that I RP from a Fighter Pilot's standpoint. I don't see a lot of that at SWFans.

I don't see how TNR and TGE being NPCs works. For one thing, it messes up a few interactions I had planned with Millard (see 'La Vita Nuova' thread in ST Forum) plus, it makes the only non-Force Users out there smugglers or bounty hunters.

C'mon where's the fun in that?

Yes, I like bounty hunters (I play two of them) but I also play one Imperial non-Force User (Tomar) and one New Republic non-Force User (Sgt. Wargrave). Who would lead the two? And doesn't it also 'put out' characters like Tohmahawk, General West, and Garm? What about Imperials such as Serena Laran, Grand Admiral Thrawn, Lebron, or Khendon Sevon? The first three do not use the Force and are RPed semi-actively.

I don't think it's a good idea at all. If the leadership of TGE or NR cannot be handled, then maybe a solution should be found (outside of the Fleet RPers giving up Fleet RPing).

Perhaps more communications between the two fleet RPing groups should be done, before something such as TGE and TNR going NPC occurs. We do have the ability to PM each other, plus most Fleet RPers have posted their AIM or Yahoo ID- I'm almost certain something can be worked out RPwise.

I vote no, but I am willing to listen to see what those who agree have to say.

[neo_sapien]

Fleet RP in its current state has evolved into stagnation. It's reached its conclusion. Trying to continue without serious changes would be like trying to scrape the bottom of the barrel.

If we reset the RP by having TNR and TGE become NPC, we get to start over again, and reactivate competition. New groups would emerge, and there would be a proliferation of IC conflict. Isn't that what RP is all about-competition? We've got to put the wars back in Star Wars.

[Mr. President]

Well, I would communicate with people. PM them...IM them. Bug the heck out of them until they respond. I just don't see how pressing the 'Reset' button works. When I was first getting into SWFans I bugged about 10 different people about the universe, what was going on, and I tried to catch up. And I did for the most part (though I thought the New Republic held Coruscant). All I'm saying is with a little more communication, we won't have to hit 'reset' at all.

[neo_sapien]

Been done. The problem still persists.

[Adm Garm Bel Iblis]

Hmm...

*reads the post*

...

Hmm...

...

*rereads the post*

...

I gotta confess, I really don't understand exactly what you are proposing here. You want to declare the Empire and New Republic as NPCs, in effect making them more like gamemaster plot devices than player-driven. Yet you still want rules for ship quotas and you still want fleet battles over planetary territory.

Personally ... I would love nothing better than to approach a military style RP without being forced to think of my ships as miniatures on a strategy game map governed by building rules. Organizing the whole fleet is a pain in the ass that I have put off for a long time because IMO, it's tedious and takes away from the spirit of the story and the fun out of writing. This isn't supposed to be an obligation, it's supposed to be recreation.

I would also love nothing more than to role play former Senator turned war hero Garm Bel Iblis without feeling like I have to keep track of a whole galaxy of planets and people. I entered the "diplomatic talks" thread with great hesitation ... forced to worry about the reprecussions of my actions on the board at large. That's an awful silly feeling to have for a social creative-writing group like this.

But the point remains ... I want to role play former Senator turned war hero Garm Bel Iblis ... of the New Republic. I want to use him in military-focused stories featuring ship battles and exploring the technology of war. That's the science fiction side of Star Wars that often gets too overwhelmed by the fantasy side.

And I would love nothing more than to enter into a military RP without worrying about it blowing into a war that would consume mine and everyone else's time. DV has made it pretty clear for awhile now that he wants to have a big war and glorious battles. I don't ... not the way he does.

I have lots of ideas for this character as well. (At least one of them coincides with Millard's actually). I don't want to have worry about someone else forcing me into a big war that I don't want. I don't have time for it. And the feeling that my every action has such huge consequences on the galaxy with all the planets and such is just kind of draining.

Of course, I've also made it publicly known that I want Corellia out of Sith hands. How would this proposal affect those plans? Honestly, it sounds like this "hitting the reset button" (a rather apt analogy) wouldn't really change anything. At least as I understand it so far.

Now if we nixed fleets and their associated rules COMPLETELY and threw out this whole mentality of treating the setting for our RP as a strategy board game ... I'd be all over that.

Set the borders of the NR and Empire and the government of each planet back to what they are in the books (pre-NJO era). Or as a concession, make Imperial space a little bigger. Then treat incursions and conflicts as co-op stories, not something the enemy is -forced- to acknowledge and allocate resources off a spreadsheet to. Have your big battles be against warlords in ways that don't intrude on everyone else.

Just let me play my character and make up my fleet without having to worry about "rules" that don't even do anything constructive (pardon the pun) anyway. And don't force anyone to have to worry about the survival of their group because the enemy has an arbitrary list of assets. That's all I ever wanted.

[neo_sapien]

Well, Garm, I don't expect I could change your opinion. I would suggest, for you to note in the future, that being malleable is a virtue in such an RP environment as this.

[Sanis Prent]

Personally, I think that maturity has refined within fleeting nearly to a point of eliminating the statistics from the game entirely, and RPing it essentially how RP's are done with everything else.

You don't see Jedi or Sith having to spend x amount of hours meditating, sparring, or hitting the weights to produce y amount of fighting power. Therefore, I think fleet RP's are to the point where they could be participated in without having to keep track of fleets, upgrades, build times, etc. Just essentially knowing what your tech does, and knowing which planets you have should be sufficient. The rest should be a give/take style RP the way that everybody else does.

That would thrill me to death.

Hypothetically, it would be like considering the Empire to be a Sith Master, and the Cizerack being a Jedi Padawan. If the two got into a fight, its pretty much going to fall to the Empire, unless the Cizerack do someting completely out of left field and creative, which the Empire has the option to recognize, etc.

[Adm Garm Bel Iblis]

Actually I agree with the idea of turning the New Republic and Empire into NPC entities in theory. I just have reservations about the motivations and how to go about doing it.

Without complete cooperation between factions (which does not exist in all cases), RP on the scale of a planetary invasion or interstellar battle is impossible ... without a narrator. You need someone who controls the setting and guides the action along.

I think it boils down to this.

There are some (I'm assuming others besides Vis) who want to have big battles and approach fleets like this is a strategy game.

There are others (not just me) who want to roleplay a military character and write stories with fleet battles and such without being forced into actions by other players or conforming to tedious rules.

The current structure favors the first group. Those of us in the second group have no choice but to live with someone else declaring war and destroying all of our plans if we want to play a military themed character. This isn't fair.

To hell with the politics that keep holding back our RP. If turning the NR and TGE into NPC entities in your mind accomplishes that, cool. I'm still not sure what doing that means exactly, but as I said, I just want to play my character and write stories.

[neo_sapien]

I think that you're misjudging me. I like tactical engagements more than strategy. There haven't been any opportunities for tactical engagements, which is what I'm trying to rectify with all this.

[Admiral Lebron]

I think I shall now voice my opinion. I am with the first group, though sometimes do like to have some non-military threads when convenient; but honestly, the boards have come to a set point. Restarting it will just make utter chaos and keeping it the way it is, will set its death in cement.


Right now, the SWForums universe has hit a cold war, an arms race. What we need in my opinion, to liven up the RPing for both Stategy players and story players is a big war. Like a WWI situation, we already have the Arms race part, with plenty of captured terrortory. All we need is a spark and a war to start.

The point of the war is to give a ample reason to break up the super powers into many smaller parts, to later grow up big and strong. Lastly, to keep super powers like we have now from forming ever again, BAN mergers. They can have alliances but no mergers. Simple.