Gue, A Question

[Darven Calmoarn]

http://www.swforums.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12540

In this thread, you clone Jen Katrina from a bloodied fingerprint.

However, how did you get the clone to have Jen's memories? I'm curious, as clones don't automatically receive personalities from whoever they're a clone of. Did you bring Jen's spirit back from the Force?

(this is LD, btw, and I'm merely curious as to your methods, since you didn't exactly say. And did Jen tell you you could clone her?? Does one need permission for that?)

Just realized, if one doesn't need permission to clone another character, then someone could clone ME! I mean, LD. :eek

Is there a rule about that, or is it a non-issue? (addressed generally to all)

[SeanDMan]

For the record, Ahnk was not cloned by himself. He was first cloned by Exar Kun (over at TGC) and then by a Jedi who killed that clone (again, over at TGC). It's relative comparable backstory, but Ahnk's Memories survived in his amulet, which held his soul if you will.
And anyone can clone me if they want.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

*shoos him out of the thread* ;)

[Sith Ahnk]

I consider myself an expert on clones

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Okay, then you can stay. :)

Just realized you said "I consider myself.." which means in actuality, you may or may NOT be an expert. *shoos him out again* ;)

[Sith Ahnk]

Thank you.

THUCK-GLUGGLUGLUGGLUG-HISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHWACK-WHIRRWHIRRWHIRR-KERPLOP-GLUGGLUGGLUG-PLOPPLOPPLOP-BEEP-FORSHOWUGA-FORSHOWUGA-BEEP-CLICK-SWOOSH-HISSSHHHHHHH-THUD

LD Clone, hot out of the nuker.

[Sith Ahnk]

Anyone who can make a clone in thirty seconds on high power is an expert, seyonara

[Gav Mortis]

I noticed that account had been activated yesterday. I spoke to Gue about it and he told me he had emailed her telling her about what he's doing and if she wished to return to roleplaying she could have the account. However he didn't mention anything about receiving permission from her.

I'm glad you brought this up LD, as I believe it is an issue that needs a great deal of attention. I think to clone someone elses character I think it is vital to have confirmed consent from the original roleplayer of that character. From what I've heard Gue has studied her character and hopes for this clone to have the same personality as the original Jen. How? I haven't the slightest.

I wonder what everyone else here thinks about cloning another persons character? Personally I'd have someone's head if they coloned one of my characters without consent.

[Sith Ahnk]

[TGC Staff Mode]There is a rule at TGC regarding cloning characters[/TGC Staff Mode]

[Gav Mortis]

Originally posted by Sith Ahnk
[TGC Staff Mode]There is a rule at TGC regarding cloning characters[/TGC Staff Mode]

You're useless! :mad

You tell us there's a rule and fail to reveal what that rule is - we could use it as a starting point! You got my hopes up then and let me down.

:headbash

[Lord Gue]

Well, I dont spose youd need permission, for instance look how many times the Thrawn character has come back around. But I have sent her multiple emails on the subject, to no reply. So we just decided to go ahead with it unless she says otherwise.

As for memories, were just asuming there genetic in origin, ya know, sorta like a cloned sheep will know who it was cloned from.

[Gav Mortis]

Well, if I'm honest, I think what you're doing is wrong.

[ReaperFett]

Well, I dont spose youd need permission, for instance look how many times the Thrawn character has come back around
Difference. Thrawn is someone using an EU/Movie character. To use someone another put blood sweat and tears into is just wrong unless they agree to it.

[Sith Ahnk]

The rule: Tied into the Capture rule. A character may not be captured without OOC permission. If they are put into a position where, despite oppurtunities to avoid it, they arrive at a situation where capture is imminent, they may not be held over two weeks out of character time without permission.
It is assumed that characters wish their character not to be cloned. If a roleplayer plans to clone another persons character, they must ask OOC. If they do, and consent is given, the character is cloned, and may not be uncloned. If this consent is not made public and the character is cloned, the cloned party may, at any time, invalidate the clone for any reason. Because character personalities and histories are the intellectual property of the innovater, the signing over of that personality is a tricky affair. In my roleplays, I have taken genetic samples of seven individuals, yet made only one set of clones, and that was of myself. The dramtic impact is lessened if there are thirty Ahnks, one for every faction... and I have respected peoples characters and not soiled them by making a virtual friend out of them. In summation Gav is Biritish.
And LD is right. And cute. Damn, she'd kick my ass if we ever met I bet.
A rule on cloning characters should be set. Ecspecially with Attack of the Clones looming.

[Sith Ahnk]

And Reaperfett is British too.

[ReaperFett]

In summation Gav is Biritish

And Reaperfett is British too.
And Ahnk had better shut up before someone decides he is a Xenopobic little oik who is asking for a banning.

[Sith Ahnk]

By British I meant correct. You forget I live under the same queen you do. God bless her... :)
You are both correct in your points made in this thread.

[ReaperFett]

You better mean that :)

[Sith Ahnk]

Well, of course I do. I've even begun using the words -DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR- and bollocks. And I never say soccer, it's football. And I always drink my tea with milk... and... and... well, that's about it. But if I have to I'll ship you some fur. :)

[Sith Ahnk]

By the way, that was a British swear word

[Lord Gue]

Woah, hold on now there reaper, Thrawn has been rped by at least three different people, all disregarding the thrawn before them, and I Know Thrawn from TIE so long ago put alot of time into his character.

Besides that, a clone of a character isnt that character itself and wouldnt fall under such rulings i wouldnt believe. I remember I think talked to visc about cloning before as well, think i said something about an army of me and how we wouldnt get along cuase we'd all try to usurp the others.

I could see verifying it so you dont mess with the characters name, you know doing 'dirty' stuff with it, but I have no intention of that here, and as it is utterly impossible for me to get in contact with jen, ive sent her emails previously to no reply, ive decided to go along with it, and if she does come back she can have the character back, and if she replys in an email and says no, then i guess its the end of that....

[Sith Ahnk]

In my opion, what Gue has done is perfectly acceptable. He has attempted contact and ratification and that failed. He moves on, and should denial come, he will forfeit the clone.


Besides that, a clone of a character isnt that character itself and wouldnt fall under such rulings i wouldnt believe.

Although you plan on emulating the original and thus it is the character itself in question, and not just the name.

[Gav Mortis]

I refuse to accept that "Thrawn" is anyone's character other than the original creator of the character in EU fiction. I don't see the point about Thrawn as being valid.

I still think it's wrong, regardless of what you've tried, if you don't have iron-clad confirmation that the roleplayer of "Jen Katrina" has agreed to let you have someone roleplay a cloned version of her character, then I don't see how you should be allowed to proceed with it.

[Live Wire]

Actually Jen Katrina is online a lot on the weekends. I saw her online last saturday. Maybe she doesnt use the same e-mail but its not like its impossible to reach her. I still think Gue should ask before he does it.

If I quit RPing I wouldnt want someone to make a clone of me just cause they couldnt reach me. The character is still mine whether or not Im active and I personally wouldnt want someone trying to RP LW's personality even if it was just a clone. Its not right unless the person gives consent.

[Genie]

Have a bit of empathy, Gue.

Think about how you would feel if, because you were gone for a bit, someone decided to take Gue as there own character and play him how they wanted.

:|

[Gav Mortis]

Originally posted by Sith Ahnk
In my opion, what Gue has done is perfectly acceptable. He has attempted contact and ratification and that failed. He moves on, and should denial come, he will forfeit the clone.



Although you plan on emulating the original and thus it is the character itself in question, and not just the name.

Yes, his heart is in the right place, fair enough. But I'm afraid I don't see this as a valid reason as to why he should be allowed to have her character cloned and have someone roleplay as her.

In a court that sort of defense is fickle and weak and wouldn't stand for a minute. "Well your honour, I tried to get her to sign the contract handing over all her property to me, yet when she didn't answer my calls I decided to go ahead and rob her of them anyway."

It's as simple as that in my opinion, robbery - unless she allows it.

[Sith Ahnk]

But if she had forfeited said assets, it is no longer her decision if it is taken or who by

[Gav Mortis]

And when did she frofeit said assets, exactly?

[Live Wire]

Ahnk she cant forfiet anything. Your character is your property. Even if someone died (heaven forbid that ever happen here) it would still be their character! Just because you dont actively RP anymore doesnt mean you give up your rights to that character. Its your creation and no one can use it without permission. End of discussion!

[Lord Gue]

Woah, waitta jump on a guy!

one at a time people

If anyone cloned my character after I was gone id be flattered, no one has ever shown enough intrest in the gue character before to do so anyways so....

As ive said, if she comes back/says no/ or anything else I will take the appropriate course of action, no need to jump down my throat, not as if i said "this is what im going to do and i dont care what anyone says"

And I refuse to accept that gav. I RP'd with the boards original thrawn for a good year or so, and I refuse to admit that all the time he spent making that character his was so that you could say a while after he's gone that u refuse to admit that it was his

[Sith Ahnk]

I'm not saying it's right, just that it's not so wrong
I mean, you guys use Thrawn like nothing. Everybody is Thrawn nowadays, and Zahn created that character. IS it okay for you to use him, just because Zahn doesn't know you are? No. Thrawn belongs to him, but you continue to use him for storyline purposes, because he's not going to complain.
And if you're not here to complain, thats your problem. Then copyright it.
And Thrawn is copyrighted, so I outta have you all arrested. Shame on you. have you no moral decency in your heart?

[Gav Mortis]

The comparison with the Thrawn character is ill-founded, due to the nature of "Thrawn" - who is essentially an EU character, meaning 1000's of people in roleplaying communities can roleplay that character, yes, to their taste's - but it is not his character I'm afraid, as far as I'm concerned.

Off the matter of Thrawn, no-one is "ganging up" on you Gue, it's just that your actions have sparked a discussion which is highly relevant to this community. This is nothing personal - the only person who may take it personally is the original innovator of "Jen Katrina."



If she comes back/says no/ or anything else I will take the appropriate course of action

It's not just about what the roleplayer thinks. It is the principle that counts; the right to maintain ownership of the character one created above all others roleplaying aspirations. I believe, we as a community should offer that protection for a fellow community member; past, present or inactive. And that their characters should not be used or duplicated in any respect, until they have given their direct consent.

Which means that, in my opinion of what is right, you are not entitled to use the account/character "Jen Katrina" in any roleplays UNTIL she has consented and IF she consents.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Gav Mortis
It's not just about what the roleplayer thinks. It is the principle that counts; the right to maintain ownership of the character one created above all others roleplaying aspirations. I believe, we as a community should offer that protection for a fellow community member; past, present or inactive. And that their characters should not be used or duplicated in any respect, until they have given their direct consent.

Which means that, in my opinion of what is right, you are not entitled to use the account/character "Jen Katrina" in any roleplays UNTIL she has consented and IF she consents. Based on that very opinion, which I and others share, I have taken control of the name away from Gue as he should never have taken it upon himself to control. It is the intellectual property of a former role player here and is not something that someone should just take ownership of so lightly. We have recently done the same with the Itala and General Ceel names, so this classifies in the same area of ethics….unethical.

[Sith Ahnk]

The comparison with the Thrawn character is ill-founded, due to the nature of "Thrawn" - who is essentially an EU character, meaning 1000's of people in roleplaying communities can roleplay that character, yes, to their taste's - but it is not his character I'm afraid, as far as I'm concerned

If the creation does not belong to the creator, then this entire arguement is invalid. If it does, then yes, Gue may not have the ability to use Jen, but then none of you should use Gue, or Talon Karrde, or Luke Skywalker, or Boba Fett, or anyone crated by them. In fact, shut the board down, right now.

[Lord Gue]

you see, thats why I can get off the Thrawn subject, hes a prime example of hypocrasy. I served under the first thrawn for a year, and like i said, i saw him develop that character as his own. He had hopes, dreams, aspirations. He made it more than the EU character, it was his swfans character, and now you would say that becuase his character's basis was that of an eu character its not valid to call him real and thus out of the loop of this, well i find that utterly proposterus.

[Sith Ahnk]

I meant Thrawn, not Gue.

And I agree with what SWFans did, but for the reason that the accounts were created with insultuary purposes in mind

[Lord Gue]

ban me now, and I mean that, ban me this instant before I give you a reason to do it

[Genie]

The difference between Jen and the movie/book characters is that no one is stopping you using the movie characters, that's perfectly fine :/

[TheHolo.Net]

The ethics behind using a character established from the movies or novels is a completely different subject than a character that is the direct intellectual/imaginative property of a role-playing individual from the boards.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Lord Gue
ban me now, and I mean that, ban me this instant before I give you a reason to do it Alrighty

[Sith Ahnk]

The difference between Jen and the movie/book characters is that no one is stopping you using the movie characters, that's perfectly fine

Copyright laws should. :)

[Sith Ahnk]

The ethics behind using a character established from the movies or novels is a completely different subject than a character that is the direct intellectual/imaginative property of a role-playing individual from the boards.

Thats ludicrous. Why should it be different?

[Genie]

Copyright laws should.

But they don't. We aren't gaining profit from writing as Luke or Leia or whatever.

If you want to take it up with the writers of the scrips and books do. Ask them if you are allowed to write fan fiction to do with characters they wrote about, if it bothers you that much :)

[Sith Ahnk]

I said that antagonistically.

[Genie]

:thumbdown

[Sith Ahnk]

You loved it

[Lord DarkStar]

although now that Gue has been banned this point is worthless, but I once asked Jen if I could clone her character. The answer, NO, catagorically and unarguably no, she didn't want it to happen...just my imput

[Hyphenated]

she'd kick my ass if we ever met I bet.

Probably! ;)

And I didn't meant to start something that ended with Gue getting banned! :( Anyway I'm glad there was a discussion sparked. I need to go back to work! :eek (memories, IMO are not genetic!)

[RoseLynne]

I think this whole moehill turned into a mountian way to quickly

[TheHolo.Net]

Banning Gue was never a thought in my mind in regards to this subject until this was said.
Originally posted by Lord Gue
ban me now, and I mean that, ban me this instant before I give you a reason to do it

[Heather]

*simply shakes her head and backs outta the thread*

[Marcus Telcontar]

quote:
The difference between Jen and the movie/book characters is that no one is stopping you using the movie characters, that's perfectly fine




Copyright laws should.





Yes, the situation we are in is covered - it is called Fair Use. You are allowed to make a copy of a work for your own backup purposes, you are allowed to use a literary character in something that is not for resale, republish and is solely for your own use. Fan Fiction, where you create a story out of someone else's characters can be deemed legal and fair, especially if the character you use is used in a parody or in speech and not for defamatory purposes, or in a libel way.

Fan Fictions as we are, where we use a backdrop of a known work (Star Wars) but generally do ont use the characters or situations and where concepts and expressions are used in passing and does not comprise the body of the work, for a non commerical purpose and for private use is Fair Use.

Trademarks (Like Star Wars itself) is not covered by these fair use clauses. Trademarks are the sole ownership of the holder and can not be used except with permission.

Permission is defined as either asking by writing..... or when the trademark / copyright is not defended. It is said to have lapsed and the work / trademark passes into public domain. As Star Waqrs is a defended copyright / trademark, the only use you have is under Fair Use.

Characters - are held as an implied copyright of the original author. Situations described is also an implied copyright and is covered by law, whether you personally claim or mark such as your own. A parody is allowed.

Thence, Jen Katrina is the sole copyright holder of her name and her characters actions and story. It can not be legally used except by direct written permission unless she does not defend the copyright - at which case her work becomes public domain in a given period of time, I believe 7 years. If she defends it, Life + 50 years to her decendants.

Therefore... A Parody of say Ceel or Itala is allowed as long as it is not defamatory. Direct use of Jen Katrina as a character is not.

The terms of use of this forum however also can affect this situation of a Parody. If the forum rules state it is not allowed, then Fair Use as a Parody is not allowed on this forum - there is a whole law set developing there that is a huge post in itself and if it was follwed, the moderators would have to be anally retentive to the degree we would hardly be able to post anything even slighty rude, libelic, defamatory or joking. Speech law as it applies to a online forum only really developing now and is generally untested, although I will point out, if you defame me on this USA based server, Australian courts have said I have the right to sue you under the juristiction of a Australian court, due to where the defamatory info had it's target audience. If the audience was Iceland, I could not do so. IF the audience is world wide and that world wide means also Australia, then I can sue for defamation.


Copyright and speech laws. Fun, aint they?

[RoseLynne]

*sighs* why is it that issues that aren't against anyone in particular get taken personally

[Lady Vader]

>_<

I was wondering why Gue said goodbye to me on Yahoo...

:\

*le sigh*

[Hyphenated]

Swfans, wasn't blaming you, I realize he asked for it. *tiptoes out of thread*