I believe it is these isssues that need addressing

[Darth Turbogeek]

After a bit of a think, I dont think a new forum, or a reset or a change in rules is going to solve anything. How about we as a group face up to the fact that we have not addressed the real problems at all and we are skirting them, hoping that they will go away.

(Now in what I have to say, I am pointing at myself and saying I have been one of the worst. ets make this, if it singles out anyone, it is me)

The reall isses we have are fourfold :-

1) Lack of understand what Roleplay is really about.

I believe I stated this in another thread. It was very clear there, there is a lack of understanding that roleplay is about your relationships and and about your actions. Nothing else when you boil it down to the base. Notice the "you". Not me, not Ogre, not Shawn or Deville or anyone else. You.

2) Lack of coomunication.

We dont talk outside of our groups or our cliques. We dont reach out a lot of the time. We dont talk when there is issues and problems. We should be.

3) OOC Confrontations.

I dont need to say how this poisons the place. And most of us are guilty of this at one time or another. Before we go any further, everyone should be prepared to forgive and get disagreements sorted.

4) Lack of roleplay leadership.

And I dont mean lets have dictactors. I mean, people from groups sitting down and planning stuff for their group on an inclusive level. We need some organisation.

There is more, but I will shut up now. I have said what I wanted to. This is what I honestly see as the issues that should be discussed civilly and openly. Avoilding them, especially OOC confrontations is only going to lead to more real problems.

And as I said before, I'lm not pointing the finger at anyone. If anything, I point it at myself and I apologise for my part in them over the years.

[ReaperFett]

1) Lack of understand what Roleplay is really about
I am starting to get to this :)


2) Lack of coomunication
It's worse when you don't have a group, noone already there for you. Then again, maybe it is better, as you have to go out and get people


3) OOC Confrontations
Dont think you can change this. If someone says something, and another disagrees, it is hard for it to stop there. Especially if it affects you majorly


4) Lack of roleplay leadership
I think the only person who can lead the RP is the RPer him/herself

[Darth Lynch]

Finally someones getting to the real issue so shall give it a shot while half asleep.

1) Lack of understand what Roleplay is really about.

The RP for some vary, it always has. Some take it serious, some take it light, some are gone a lot, some are not. To some writing long novel like post is the way to go, othrs write far shorter RPs. Overall its rathe hard if not impossible to define the Roleplay, when I think Roleplay the term I first thing it should be is an "Created world/realm/universe in which people write post of stories, characters, and places for the sake of having fun" That is suppose to be the point at least.

2) Lack of coomunication.

One step that might help is to have three people in each group to represent each group and converse with leaders from other groups in some forum to help plan and start some Rps, any issues that come up these people can try and work it out and if the three from each group are the wisest of the possible people choosen might get some things worked out. Might not be likely all the time but hey worth a shot. Other than that seems most of the time people are relucant to do anything with anyone Rp wise who isnt in some clique or group within their own circle of friends, some talk or "chat" but it goes not much more than that often.

If anyone needs proof on this just look at the Rps in which its usually the same people if not under alts Rping with each other. No wonder people get bored.

3) OOC Confrontations.

If this could be taken care of the boards, ALL the boards would benefit, there is no doubt about that. But to be blunt at times it has been tried, either between people or groups and while at times it has succeeded with a little patience and understanding it has more than naught been a failure. Many will blame others, not trust others and anything one says will be insantly disected even if innocent. There is much bad blood goes on, much of which is stupidity in itself. Still to get rid of it all, that would take time and a lot of understanding and most of the time people do not even try. They say it but they certainly do little to carry it out. Nowadays its all who your with and thats all that matters, people are gathering who have similar minds and agendas if not dislike of some. A nature breeding ground for more confrontation in the future if anything. We are all guilty, no one could argue against that.

The cure for this? No idea. I'd say work with each other and try to get along but those would be empty words and doubt many would put forward a true effort. Personally I would go for it myself however if some wanted to give it a shot but thats me. At this point too tired to care if some got issues or not but will try to "help" if could if some others agreed as will. Doubt many will even bother to try although some people at the boards would be willing to try.

4) Lack of roleplay leadership.

Eh....hmm not sure there can be such a thing that would please most. Willing or not most do look to the mods and admins as "leaders" who tend to know what to do although not always are they agreed with. Anything else or anyone appointed in roles could be viewed as a dictatorship, leadership roles are tricky to have and tough to not be burned out from the stress in dealing with issues. Having a direction for the boards would probably be best and even then would need to watch how thats layed out so its not constrictive.

[Live Wire]

1) Lack of understand what Roleplay is really about.


RP is always going to be different things to different people and I think there needs to be some consideration that not everyone wants to RP like you do and try to make the best of what we have. You make your own RP environment, you define RP, so dont expect everyone else to do things exactly like you want them.

2) Lack of comunication.

YES!!! People need to talk outside their little cliques. I've always tried to get around and talk to people. I make it clear that when Im on Im usualy open for discussion. I've found it easy to get along with most people here and I think if everyone puts forth an effort we can work around that issue.

3) OOC Confrontations.

I commented on this in the other thread but in case someone didnt read it. OOC confrontations will continue as long as there are malicious people at the boards. Im not naming names but many people out there know who Im refering to. People who cause problems cause they like to see what will happen. Its sad that we have people like this but we do.

For everyone else.....we need to realize that we're going to disagree. Dont get all bent out of shape over it....deal with it. The only way to prevent this is to agree to disagree. Dont take things personally.

4) Lack of roleplay leadership.


I think it would be good to have a council of representatives from each group that came together and talked. Even if its not major just to keep communication going. I dont like the idea of a GM that was brought up some time back but a group that can sit and discuss and talk would go far to making this a better place.

[Morgan Evanar]

I'm not even going to interject my severe pessimissim about this place into this thread.

[ReaperFett]

I think it would be good to have a council of representatives from each group that came together and talked
Would anything be done for the independants? Can't see how, but would they be able to get a say?

[Live Wire]

yeah I think everyone should have a say. First we would need to look at how many independants we have and see how they want to represent themselves. I know a lot of independants are people who are part of a group as another character so that can also be taken into an account because I think most of the disccusion would be OOC rather then IC.

[ReaperFett]

Mmm, suppose so. Doubt that many are COMPLETELY independant

[Rama]

Well a type of RP council would help.........like and OOC leadership for this place, with people from each group and what not. Im sure we could figure out a way to that everyone could have a say in this.


But ingnoreing the problem and doing a "new" timeline for a handful of people is frankly IMHO, the most retarded idea I have ever heard. Not so much the idea it's self, but they fact that someone would want it to change things here for it.

[Vinny Red]

I think that the lack of communication and the OOC confrontations are something that go hand in hand. Lack of communication usually leads to miscommunication and from there come the OOC problems.

Why not initiate a large chat where all Role Players are invited to participate and bring up any ideas, concerns, criticisms or whatnot?

[Rama]

Problem with all these communictaions things though is that are some people gonna come in and just start squashing any idea that they or their Cliquie didn't think of? I mean if some people have the influnce to do that here, it'll happen in a Chat, in a Council, in a Discussion. Your always gonna have those that want to be in control and can't stand it if they arn't.

[Vinny Red]

Why not have the chat set up with the Mod as just that. Mods for the chat, that way things can be kept in somewhat of an organized manner. Or theoretically anyways....

[Taataani Meorrrei]

<img src=http://www.areacom.it/area/homepage/vulcan/Spock/ST2_01.jpg>

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few...or the one.


(looks at Shawn and arches an eyebrow)

Oh yes, and...


...Hmm....fascinating.

[Lady Vader]

NO! Anything but fascinating!

>_<
|I
:x




:lol

[Arya Ravenwing]

:lol

And lets not forget the importance of spelling "communication" correctly in ones first post. :p

Good points here. I don't have time to formulate anything right now in response. :(

[Rama]

Originally posted by Taataani Meorrrei
<img src=http://www.areacom.it/area/homepage/vulcan/Spock/ST2_01.jpg>

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few...or the one.





Classic.......and a good point.




"Dude that wasn't Jesus....that was Mr Spock." -Klye from South Park.

[Champion of the Force]

Why not initiate a large chat where all Role Players are invited to participate and bring up any ideas, concerns, criticisms or whatnot?
Why not just use the OOC forum here to bring up discussions for everyone to participate in? One problem with chats is that they require everyone to be online at the same time.

The facilities are all here to solve the problems, but it doesn't appear as though anyone is interesting in doing anything. How many times has someone posted a 'we have problems - lets fix them' thread? More than I can remember, but no one seems to do anything once they're over.

Rant off. :)

[Marcus Telcontar]

Problem no 5 has been identified.




The facilities are all here to solve the problems, but it doesn't appear as though anyone is interesting in doing anything. How many times has someone posted a 'we have problems - lets fix them' thread? More than I can remember, but no one seems to do anything once they're over.


Nothing gets done when an issue is made clear. Hardly anything gets solved. Now I for one want to see issues resolved, the real issues. So, as well as talk, lets solve them. I dont have the answers, but I do believe we need to clear the air, place the real issues on the table and solve them now.

[Live Wire]

that is a problem...we do a lot of talking but in the end not a whole lot changes.

I still think a council of groups would go far to resolving communication issues.

[Taataani Meorrrei]

Yes, but determining a council like that would be next to impossible.

Jeebus, just use the open forum we have. Get off yer asses if somethings gotta be done...and just do it :)

Its one thing to not know a solution. But if one is determined, well there ya go.

No need for a special council thing.

[Rama]

Well there must be some kind of a need......cause that stuff never works.



And it's only impossible if we refuse to try.

[Champion of the Force]

Whilst a council might not be able to be fully functional as Rama described, a body of sorts that is at least proactive and objectively tackling forum issues probably wouldn't go astray. Especially if they post discussions as a result of their own debates to enable to rest of the posters to have a say.

At the very least, it could be a lot more pro-active than the 'village forum' setup doing the rounds currently, in which everyone sits back and hopes someone else will do the work. |I

It doesn't even need to be a recognised effort. GJO and TSE for instance could just appoint some people to work together or settling out their own differences and objectively tackling Jedi vs. Sith RPing if they really wanted to.

[Alpha]

1) Lack of understand what Roleplay is really about

I'm w/ the majority of ppl around here. It's completely different for each person what this is about. For me (for instance), it's something I can do to get my mind off everything for a while, and just be somewhere different.



2) Lack of communication
I'm agree completely on this one. Most ppl (not all, mind you), stay in little groups that tend to ignore alot of the newer people, or those that don't fit into any other places.



3) OOC Confrontations
Again, I'm with most others. There really isn't any way anyone but people themselves that can cure this problem.




4) Lack of roleplay leadership
I really don't see how a council could work. We could have people post ideas around here though, to give people some direction (maybe??)

[imported_Eve]

Phew -

OOC issues - First and foremost: alot of you need to get off your pretentious high horses. You talk to one another in a way that you wouldn't speak if you were actually in each other's face. I see superiority complexes. I see cliches that don't tell the members within when they're wrong. I see hypocracy. Primarily evident in posts, is selfishness. This is a community, and people forget that. And - MOST PROMINENT is the taboo issue which NO ONE admits to falling victim to, but I think many if not all of you have experienced: taking an IC problem and bringing it OOC. Mixing, mixing, mixing all over the place.

The worst thing is, this isn't the first post to address it, and even since the first time it WAS addressed, I haven't seen a change. It's an old issue, and no one is willing to change. I doubt this thread will turn into little more than an argument by the same group of arguers. What ya wanna bet? I'll bet the farm.

RP - People don't know what it is? What - and you do?

RP leadership? Who do you suggest to do that? Assuming it would work. The same people who don't get along anyway? Great - throw them on a council together and watch the blood flow. I'll also bet it would be composed mostly of the same people that bicker day in and day out in this VERY forum. I'd bet the farm on that too. Plus, you're suggesting leadership to dictate what their opinion of great roleplaying should be.

If any of you really think you can define that better than others, then you're one of the people on their high horse that I was talking about earlier, and you should get off it before you fall.

Communication - I see no lack of it here, since this forum is mainly filled with bitching and moaning. There is so much going on that I can only see whiping the slate clean as the only solution to that. If you try and argue your ways to peace, I'll just shoot myself now.

You want this place to get better? Then everyone stop acting like a**holes, come to grips with the importance of this place in your REAL life, stop making drama out of every issue that affects some microbe on an ant hill in Africa, and JUST play/talk Star Wars.

[imported_Firebird1]

Originally posted by Champion of the Force

Why not just use the OOC forum here to bring up discussions for everyone to participate in? One problem with chats is that they require everyone to be online at the same time.

The facilities are all here to solve the problems, but it doesn't appear as though anyone is interesting in doing anything. How many times has someone posted a 'we have problems - lets fix them' thread? More than I can remember, but no one seems to do anything once they're over.

Rant off. :)

Well see this forum would be the perfect place for this, but there are a few reasons.

1) The rampiant paranoia that is running through this place like crazy. Trust me when I say not everyone is out to get everyone, but there are those few cases...

2)Topics such as these have a huge habbit of turning into flame wars where nothing gets resloved, and everyone goes home unhappy, mad and waiting for the next huge explosion.

3)Random thoughts:

I thought I was in TSE, but everything sort of split down the middle and ate itself.

I think the Admin staff here need to shread documents more often.

Is it just me, or could The GJO find a smaller rock to hide under?

I'm selling Lemonaide at the TSO, why aren't any of you buying?

The New Republic is still MIA and now can be considered legaly dead!

Is this believeable TGE is having a baesball game for all of it's members on both Tatoonie and Coursacant, and yes the field is that big.

And for anyone else I forgot they are either all dead or food for the Cizerack.

Why did I just type all of this, just to see who was listening. Because, there are the real Role Playing problems of the board.
There is more of a chance that these might get fixed right now then anything else.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Is it just me, or could The GJO find a smaller rock to hide under?


Lets just use this as an example of what I mean by leadership. I certainly do not mean a Council of players dictacting terms or making rules, I mean someone who will IC take up the flag / cause / jihad / whatever and run with it to make something out of their group. For example, the Jedi are disorganised and split up, there is a need for that cause to be taken up and someone to come forward to lead the Jedi, from wherever they come from. Be a figurehead, something like that. Promote a presence and action. Come up wiht the plans on a group level.

To get group participation, the leaders should informally get together and plan exchanges between the groups - battles, senarios, maybe a bit of personal one on ones. No formalised Councils, because that will not work. A bit of "Okay, so what can we do" sort of thing.

Very loose, very informal, with a common goal of making roleplay more interesting and fun. No win / lose, fun.


OOC Confrontations.

I dont need to say how this poisons the place. And most of us are guilty of this at one time or another. Before we go any further, everyone should be prepared to forgive and get disagreements sorted.


There's the solution in bold. No true forgiveness and a willing to put things aside, no solution. Lets not talk why, lets actually DO this.


I haven't seen a change

I have seen a change. This place has gotten better. Or maybe because I had the guts to actually go ahead and do the above and hence whatever is going on now doesnt concern me and I ignore. The only reason I posted this topic is becuase I feel the change and I sense the time is right to strike now and help promote a final resolution. Or a group hug if that helps

[Champion of the Force]

I think the Admin staff here need to shread documents more often
That one went over my head I'm afraid. :huh

[Marcus Telcontar]

Oh one point -


Some perspective. To be honest, this place is quite quiet and well behaved and OOC nonsense is fairly restricted. I go to places one hell of a lot worse than this and good deal more violent. We're just a squabbling bunch of toddlers argueing over a teddy bear compared to some of the real flamewars I have seen.

[Champion of the Force]

To be honest, this place is quite quiet and well behaved and OOC nonsense is fairly restricted.
I would have to agree. As a person who only sees the goings on of the roleplaying community by events that occur right here on this board, it's been seen by me as fairly tame for quite a while.

Which is why Firebird's and Morgan's recent posts to the contrary kind of surprised me - clearly there are a lot of issues occuring off the board that only become visible when people are at the end of their length. :\

[Morgan Evanar]

Which is why Firebird's and Morgan's recent posts to the contrary kind of surprised me - clearly there are a lot of issues occuring off the board that only become visible when people are at the end of their length.

Quesadillas?

[Figrin D'an]

You want this place to get better? Then everyone stop acting like a**holes, come to grips with the importance of this place in your REAL life, stop making drama out of every issue that affects some microbe on an ant hill in Africa, and JUST play/talk Star Wars.


Hey, someone finally figured out why I stopped RPing...



Anyway... as much as I would love to see everyone here get along as one big happy family, it's just not going to happen. Part of it is simply individual arrogance and the afore-mentioned superiority complexes. The rest of it is mainly because of the differences of opinion on the definition of RPing itself. Bottom line... some people take it more seriously than others, hence we have stylistic differences, the formation of circles of friends with similar styles and attitudes, etc. That isn't going to change by pulling out the magical wand of legislation and decreeing a definitive "Who, What, Where, When" for every RP scenario. People just don't change that easily...

But, if something is going to be done...

Intra-group participation seems to be a big problem too...
I mean, honestly, for those of you in groups, how many people would you say are legimately active in RP and are participating, even within your own groups? Now compare that to the number of people on your rosters... pretty big disparity, huh?
Maybe before we start talking about an RP committee, each group should do some ''house cleaning", find out who is really going to participate, update its rosters, and inventory all of its resources. Then, bring all of that info to some kind of committee meeting as a basis from which to work...

(As if I'm one to talk about participation...)


Also remember... no matter what happens, some people will still not be satisified. Trying to make everyone happy is the worst thing to try to accomplish... I think that is where most of the past attempts at change have failed. Everyone has the right to express and opinion, even complain. That doesn't guarentee that said persons will get their way, however. As was mentioned before... The needs of the many outweight the needs of the few. Take it to heart, 'cause that's the only way that anything will get done...


*** Gets bottle of Tylenol ready for massive headache that is oncoming. ***

[imported_Firebird1]

Intra-group pratipation?

Uh, I don't really like to tell you this, but I have 5 characters running around here right now and only 2 of them are in groups. You want to know why it is so boring in a group, because we have to apparently wait untill some one gives us the go ahead and the plan.

Thats changing, a lot of things at TSE are changing. But I wonder if it is like that at other groups.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Firebird1
Intra-group pratipation?

Uh, I don't really like to tell you this, but I have 5 characters running around here right now and only 2 of them are in groups.

Okay... so what is your point?

I'm talking about activity with particular groups, not a given person's percentage of characters in groups vs. not in groups.

Many groups have large rosters of members, but only a small percentage of those people are actually active and do anything RP related. Some people have to split their time between multiple characters, which further cuts down on the activity within a group. That is a big problem, IMO, because no one group really knows what it's true roster is or what it's actual resources are.


You want to know why it is so boring in a group, because we have to apparently wait untill some one gives us the go ahead and the plan.


I agree with that to a point. Which is why I'm recommending something that will, hopefully, help to streamline things. Beyond that... participating in group RP requires planning and cooperation... some people don't want to deal with that, which is fine... there is no requirement for a character to be a part of a group or to particiapate in such RP's.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Personally, I find it difficult to meet and Rp with a lot of new people because none of my characters are in a group, except for one, which is in TGE. (and I hardly ever am there, just ask anyone. Ok, don't then!)

I have not been involved in a lot of the bad stuff going on around here, because..well I'm not sure why not. But I do READ ABOUT IT ALMOST EVERY DA*N DAY! Its bringing me down.

I'm to the point where I don't even want to come around here anymore, at least not to the OOC forum. I still enjoy my RPing :) but the bickering, and the bitching and moaning wears on me. I can only see so much before I start doing it myself.

And personally, I can't do it here without it flowing into my actual relationships with people I see everyday.

I dont' know about any of you guys, but I do not want to become a complaining moaner. I can't imagine that any of YOU people want to be either. My family wouldn't be able to stand me, and I wouldn't have any friends off the computer or ON the computer, for that matter.

I realize I'm rambling, sorry, but I get to do this every once in a while, because I save up all the posts I DON'T make in all the complaining threads.

Charlie Brown: Good Grief!

*hides under the tiny rock with the groups* You know, why DO we have groups? No one does group things. We could do just as well without any, just a central place (like...here?!?!O_O) where new people can be farmed out as padawans and apprentices and whathaveyou.

[Rama]

Well we could go back to when there was just Jedi and Sith and there weren't any other boards.........these thing weren't issues then, but of course I can't see people going for that and it would be unreasonable for to assume that everyone one would want to do that just cause i do. So unless everyone wants to do that, isn't gonna happen.

[Marcus Telcontar]

I have to admit, it would be sorta nice not having groups. But like you, I dont see that happening.

I'd love to see GJO being more of a meeting place for Jedi, where they can rest and train, socialise and not have GJO as a "group" as such. I'd also love to see it hosted as a set of sub forums here as well. But what I would love see happen and what will happen in this case are two different things, I quite well know that.

And yes, it would also go a long way in solving communications issues as we would be turned into a larger community, not a set of communities gathering. There is to me a far differerence. It would bring us to together.

BUT.....

That's about as likely to occur as monkey flying out of my butt and writing Lord of The Rings. Still, it's something to ponder and maybe work with

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Nobody wants to do anything, and everyone wants to do something.

[Aura Allei]

I think Eve hit the nail on the head with her comment about IC/OOC. I noticed in talkcity rping, many folks take an IC situation and become disgruntled about it, as they allow it to leak into an OOC dispute, or OOC apathy towards the rper. They can even mix IC with OOC in their next post. I have seen it happen. I am sure the same has happened in here. The mixing of OOC and IC is the root of the problem in RPG.

I have experienced it already in one group on the boards, I decline to mention. Though my presumptions were never proven, you can sense when someone harbors a grudge towards you OOC, because of an rp that annoyed them, as they mix IC with OOC in their following posts with you. What gets my goat is I was IC the whole bloody time! God help anyone if they fail to rp with the approval of another!

We need to stop bringing rl society bs into these Forums and board groups, and become our own society, void of the all too familiar 'cliques', because with these closed groups, RPG will never expand and flourish. There is too much organization at times, even in these OOC columns. RPG should be free, not decided by leaders and elected RPG negotiators to decide the RPG for all. We need an 'equal Democratic vote.'

Lilaena is right. We don't need to make this into a bickering debate.

Yes, there is a wave of communication complications plaguing RPG, which is a big issue in here. Which reminds me of an old thread when I was Jedi Knight Aura, "An issue that concerns us all." The similarity between these threads is remarkable. For crying out loud, we need to start PMing each ther and cut the shy bs out and discuss how we want to rp with one another. I dont care if 100 ppl PM me, as long as it is RPG affiliated, with a note of civility. As rpers, we are a rare breed of ppl, and should respect one another, no matter how old each person is. Age should not be biased against in here. We all love starwars, and we all love to role play. Why should age make any bloody difference?

Let me just mention something not brought up in here, the green monster of 'envy' O_o Some folks are literally 'jealous' of other rpers whom seem to them to be more articulate, seasoned rpers. This needs to stop right now. Each person has their own creativity that makes them unique. While some are novel posters, this makes them no better than the shorter posters. A short post can be just as detailed and creative as a long one. I for one, am not known for my long posts, but I have no problem with the ones that do whom I rp with. Short posters aren't lazy, we just can't add anymore to our posts.

There is a vast array of age differences in here, which can pose an effect in posting. A young adolescent, an older teenager, a person in their 30's, 40's, 50's, or older, has a different approach to RPG. This is because of their rl experiences, not just education and RPG experience. The truth is, each post is a person's own signature if you would. A strong vocabulary or knowledge of starwars technical details, matters not. It is how we portray our characters that counts.

Leave your rl personal opinons at home, and let our characters breathe without the persecution of rl biased views. Sorry to ramble on, and am appreciative to any who have viewed this long post. :)

[imported_Firebird1]

Accutaly getting rid of the groups would not solve this problem. It sounds like a good idea, but in reality we need the groups to keep people organized and informed of things going on. There just needs to be some middle ground and such where your in a group and you can go it alone. I know I can do that.

But also there is a problem with not everyone RPing with everyone else, and by having the groups we can make sure that everyone has a chance to RP here with out worrying about making people mad and such.

Also...

Let me just mention something not brought up in here, the green monster of 'envy' Some folks are literally 'jealous' of other rpers whom seem to them to be more articulate, seasoned rpers. This needs to stop right now. Each person has their own creativity that makes them unique. While some are novel posters, this makes them no better than the shorter posters. A short post can be just as detailed and creative as a long one. I for one, am not known for my long posts, but I have no problem with the ones that do whom I rp with. Short posters aren't lazy, we just can't add anymore to our posts.

I don't know if anyone is Jealous, but I think it has more to do with OOC issues and things behind the scenes than accutally the RP.

[ReaperFett]

I think the Admin staff here need to shread documents more often
You want us to cover stuff up? We're not Enron you know :)



To be honest, this place is quite quiet and well behaved and OOC nonsense is fairly restricted. I go to places one hell of a lot worse than this and good deal more violent. We're just a squabbling bunch of toddlers argueing over a teddy bear compared to some of the real flamewars I have seen.
Oh aye, definately



Hey, someone finally figured out why I stopped RPing...
No offense, but if theres a reason you stopped, telling people so they can learn and improve DOES help :)



(As if I'm one to talk about participation...)
Nothing wrong with you talking about it. You did once, so you know. It's not as if you don't have a clue, is it?



Personally, I find it difficult to meet and Rp with a lot of new people because none of my characters are in a group, except for one, which is in TGE. (and I hardly ever am there, just ask anyone. Ok, don't then!)
Yeah, that can happen when your character is written in certain ways too. You can't fit in in that case.

On the other hand, being independant means you have more free will.



I dont' know about any of you guys, but I do not want to become a complaining moaner
Sadly, I feel I'm the flip-side, the one who debates with said complaining moaner.



I have to admit, it would be sorta nice not having groups
That'd be fine for people with their feet on the ground. But what about the poor new person who wants to be a Jedi? Where does he go? Where does he start?



Some folks are literally 'jealous' of other rpers whom seem to them to be more articulate, seasoned rpers
I can see that. I read somes RPs, and they have got it all written so well, it bugs me about my ones. But the trick is to not let it hurt, let it inspire.



Short posters aren't lazy, we just can't add anymore to our posts.
Oh, definately. My copy of Fight Club is TINY. Doesn't mean the author couldn't be bothered. Everything needed was there.


quote]Accutaly getting rid of the groups would not solve this problem. It sounds like a good idea, but in reality we need the groups to keep people organized and informed of things going on[/quote]
I agree. It is less "If it aint broke, dont fix it", its more "Its slightly damaged, lets throw it away and never speak of it again" :)

[imported_Firebird1]

Well Reaper I guess the Admins are having some OOC issues at various boards I really don't agree with and I don't want to state here because the flaming would really begin! And when I say Admins, I mean all of them.

But I can say this: The ammount of OOC BS that goes on would boggle your mind. It's stupid, and would suprise the crap out of people. But fortunally most people don't want to deal with it and RP anyways. But make no mistake, it is a problem. And it needs to stop.

Anyways, the groups aren't borken, it's just that well they need some repair...some shaking around and fixing, some spring cleaning.

[imported_Firebird1]

I have a better Idea, instead of me starting a flame war or push this topic into forbidden territory, lets talk about the groups.

What is each group doing right now in the RP?

How many active Rpers (not characters) do we have here?

Is there any way to get people more involved with SWFans?

Those are the questions that we should be asking, this suggest a problem crap goes nowhere.

[Arya Ravenwing]

Firebird, I believe (as Aura stated) nearly all that sort of stuff was already discussed TO DEATH in the "An Issue that Concerns Us All" thread from about two months ago.

I feel like all we're doing is beating a dead horse.

And I honestly don't know if ultimately anything can be done about "the situation."


Well Reaper I guess the Admins are having some OOC issues at various boards I really don't agree with and I don't want to state here because the flaming would really begin! And when I say Admins, I mean all of them.

But I can say this: The ammount of OOC BS that goes on would boggle your mind. It's stupid, and would suprise the crap out of people. But fortunally most people don't want to deal with it and RP anyways. But make no mistake, it is a problem. And it needs to stop.

It isn't just Admins. And it IS stupid. No, I don't want to deal with it, not because I'm sticking my head in the sand, but because its crap and I don't like associating with crap. Personally. I mean, others may like to sling it around...but...

Honestly, I think most people who've been here longer than three days have a pretty good grasp on the OOC disputes that go on here. No mind boggling going on here.

[Lord Gue]

I for one dont see what the whole problem is. True, communication could be better, and true, most of these little inner circles are out there (but if thats the way they like it, whos to say otherwise?). Other than that i say we all just chill, the old 'dont worry be happy'

[ReaperFett]

the old 'dont worry be happy'
Ooooooooooooooooh oo oo oo oo, oo oo, oo oo oo, oo oo oo oo oo oo oo......

:)

Didnt he kill himself btw?

[Lord Gue]

not a clue, never heard another thing about him since that song, lol

[Aura Allei]

I have heard of the incessant OOC BS that has been traveling about. Jedah Lynch mentioned it to me, but didn't go into detail. I have no Aim and am pretty much new here, so I am 'blinded' to what is going on. The way ppl are talking about it, I am glad Im not apart of the jungle of insultive dialogues infesting the boards. Just rp and forget about it. There is enough of this babble in rl society.


:crack

[ReaperFett]

I dont think I know any of it :)

[The Preacherman]

I'm pretty surprised to hear there is a lot of OOC stuff going on right now - I thiought it was quietening off.

Anyway , there is two solutions -

1) If not not of it, ignore completely.

2) If part of it.... bite the bullet and make peace. If you cant, then back off and ignore each other and do not spread the poison.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by ReaperFett
No offense, but if theres a reason you stopped, telling people so they can learn and improve DOES help :)


I've tried that before... my comments were pretty much disregarded. Hence my skepticism of the effectiveness of this latest effort. It doesn't really help matters when people want to affect change, they get shot down and are called "whiners that just need something to bitch and moan about." Now, I haven't specifically been called that, but there are a lot of people around here that have. Would I like to see some things change? Sure. Am I willing to help make those changes? Absolutely. But, all that doesn't matter if people themselves don't want to change...

[Lord Gue]

I dont know how everyone else thinks, but usually one will only listen to comments about how to rp better by either friends, people they know fairly well and people they respect. If then you are talking about a person that no one likes and rps badly becuase he wants to do it that way, then no odds are they wont listen to your helpful comments...

[ReaperFett]

I personally have found others opinions more valuable, because theres always some people who dont want to tell the truth.

[Helenias Evenstar]

But, all that doesn't matter if people themselves don't want to change...


Very true. And that is one reason I think this thread came into existance. Change is needed and from what I read (and the fact something that could have degenerated into a flame war has so far remained remarkably civil and well mannered) I think players are ready for a change are just not willing to tolerate personal arguments damaging groups and this board. There does seem to be a willingness to face the issues and deal with them.

And that is an encouraging thought. (I watched Lord of the Rings too much. Does that show I'm a pervy Aragorn fanicer?)

It seems to me the Jedi are free of the OOC (Out Of Control) syndrome right now, which I for one like. I also rather like how they have opened up their secret area to just about anyone. It does seem to be peaceful, open and trouble free area. I dont know about elsewhere, I dont go anywhere else except here and GJO. And there has been less nonsense here, noticably so.

Another indication the problem is being dealt with in a manner suitible - or is it the OOC syndrome just simply staying off this board? I do believe it is less of a problem than before.

Which is why when I see someone saying that this place always has arguments is an insult to what this place is becoming. It simply is not. The number of arguments, apart from troublemakers in the last 3 months I think I could count on one hand. I have never been able to say that before.

The proof is the fact this discussion is not a flamefest. Doesnt that say something to people? Doesnt that say things have changed? To me it does.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Pervy Elf Fancier! No wait, that's me.... >_< :mischief

Yes, Helenias, that DOES say a lot. You are perfectly right. And I heard they closed the Gap in Rohan. There isn't even a Banana Republic there anymore!

[Rama]

What a Shame about the Gap. :p



Anyways you got people who don't wanna fix things cause they like it just the way it is. Mainly cause they are on the top of the Dog Pile at the moment.......so it's hard to make things change when so many want to stay the same.

[DarthHERA]

(I had a nicer flowery-type post typed up, but then I deleted it because this is what I really want to say)



Hint: Everyone should try to keep their snide remarks to themselves. That will go along way to illwill disolving, if we dont keep feeding it.

The only reason badblood goes on for so long is because people want it too.

If we are honestly trying to make things better, then we will not take every opportunity to slam or snipe ppl we have problems with. Just dont buy into it. Pretty soon, the only ones doing OOC bs will be so obvious, they will be scorned/and ignored by the higher-road takers.

I mean really, it can be done.

Real life tears people down enough, we shouldnt have to come here and other boards and cop it too.

[Lady Vader]

That was very nicely and clearly put, Hera. Thank you.

[Strider]

Wha?? OOC comments being snide, rude, maybe a little off center a problem?

God forbid that happens!

Anyways I know that I'm a little off center, but I'm not trying to flame anyone!

Look, alot of people are asking the same questions over and over again, doesn't that mean something? We have a problem here, one that people would like to see solved so that they can get on with the RP.

So lets solve the problem then! But which problem?
There are more things going on in back rooms then we know about, and a lot of those dealings are affecting the groups!

What are the groups doing right now?

How many people are in them?

And how many people actively RP here?

So many questions, where are the answers?

[Sumor Rayial]

Most of my feelings/ideas/bitchings have already been stated, and I don't really want to fill up another long post with quotes so I'll just say the one thing that I don't think anyone brought up I think is an important point.

The OOC crap/planning of ideas/anything else that is pretty much OOC is done just like real life politics. It's all done back channel and off the boards. A council of "representitives" from each group won't solve anything cause it will still be done on IM or E-mail in back channels. I don't see this changing it's just kinda part of life.


On another point. An idea I had when I first read this thread was something to do for getting more people involved with each other, as individuals more than as a group.

Set up a bulletin Board type forum or something. Someplace that people can make simple posts like "1 Jedi/Sith Needed" for the title and then just a simple message putting as much or as little information about the thread as they want and how to contact them.

I think that this will work better than or help the posts in the roleplaying forum where people basically leave an open challenge. Since Not many newbies know many people if any at all it would make it easy for them to create a web of people they RP with outside of their own group.

This doesn't have to be here on the Fans board, but could be a forum that each group sets up on their individual boards, though it leaves the independants at a disadvantage if the latter form is the choice.

[Arya Ravenwing]

Sumor, I believe that this forum can be effectively utilized for that very purpose. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, that is one of its purposes.

[Khan Surak]

OOC Bickering - Okay, I suppose some people have their disputes here once in a while. Unless the person(s) is a friggin' idiot, the problem usually dissolves a week or so later, and the parties involved would return to previous relations. Usually. Though my comments are disregarded most of the time, I'm just glad we're not like this place:

http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/starwars_gen_boards.html


You know, why DO we have groups? No one does group things. We could do just as well without any, just a central place (like...here?!?!O_O) where new people can be farmed out as padawans and apprentices and whathaveyou.

I'm sorry but that comment really frazzled me. :huh >_< |I I fear that if I respond to that tactfully it will come off as a flame, so I won't. I will only hope that these few sentences explain my utter confusion at why anyway would say that here.

I do concur with Sums. 80% or so of faction rp plannng occurs on messaging systems and such. And the 'bulletin board' sounds like something that could be useful.

[Champion of the Force]

Sumor, I believe that this forum can be effectively utilized for that very purpose. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, that is one of its purposes.
Correct.

This forum is here. You can all use it for this, especially considering most that roleplay here visit this forum.

[imported_Firebird1]

Thats a start, we can use this OOC forum to origianize ourselves and see if we can't get a larger part of the groups involved in the RP here.

[Morgan Evanar]

These points in regards to solutions are not new. They were discussed in a different thread months ago I'm not willing to dig through my memory for the title.

My excuse (while seemingly lousy, is true) is that I'm in a rather rotten creative slump. I could have come up with something for both the Jedi and Sith / whoever-else to chase by now, but its been going for over a month now. I'll bash my head against it for the coming week.

If you want a Jedi in an RP, its not hard to ask (and it seems like it is being done some). While it isn't a common sight (yet? ever? hope for the first, eh?), there is some improvement.

Not all doom and gloom. Er, I am known to be wrong often enough that if it does implode/explode, dunna point the finger at me?

Now in regards to OOC attitudes, I'm not here to point fingers. The people I have issue with probably know who they are, and those issues aren't like to clear up any time soon, maybe not ever. I'm certain some of it comes from raw personality conflict.

But its limited to four, maybe eight people at most. If theres a simple RP issue (IE: errr... you do know this and that can't do this and that. Could ya fix it?), I'm willing to dicuss it, even with them.

Aside from that, you can burn in hell! :wings

[imported_Firebird1]

I know how you feel Morgan! If it is any concelation I hope that by officaly stating that this forum is a notification forum we can get more people involved on both sides! Look this is just one of many things we can do, but I can't fix all your problems if we don't talk about them. I really don't care if you Flame me at this point. The fact that both of us are mad is unsat, and that we keep having threads like this is just going to show how much father we need to go to fix these problems.

Think of it, this forum no longer a flame pit! This forum one that people can use on a daily basis!

[Morgan Evanar]

Actually Firebird, my issue with you has pretty much been cleared up.

[ReaperFett]

Just one thing I was thinking about, Communication. Didn't we say people should start announcing what's happening in their RPs, so people can follow?

[imported_Firebird1]

Morgan: I know! *Hands Morgan a beer*

Reaper: Yes, there was something passed about that, but not that many people follow it. :\

[Marcus Telcontar]

Didn't we say people should start announcing what's happening in their RPs, so people can follow?


eeerrrr..... we did?

(Good idea I have to admit.... just dont remember it)

[Anbira Hicchoru]

I don't remember this, because it would have been something I would've refused to do.

Suprise and the unknown are things I rely on in my writing.

[Morgan Evanar]

Er... I don't think we did. I'm fairly certain this was only for more open RPs.

[Khan Surak]

Perhaps only if it is a really confusing story/the writer wants to?

[imported_Firebird1]

Well, it really doesn't matter for the storytelling threads, since they are closed and the people who know about them are there reading them already. But it would help the oprn threads, challenges, and fleet threads get people motivated and posting again if they could go to one source and find an RP to join.


Look, it's not like someone asking you to follow one set storyline, but it is asking for some notification when you do something. Like lets say a group of Sith take over a mining town, what are they going to do with it, what can they do? Well with no interferance or anyone to stop them they could turn it into a giant weapon or build a weapon there or ect... And that would get boring real fast (Why do you think we yell at everyone when they take a planet in under 20-30 posts). So to add some life and some unknown factor these Sith might advertize in this forum that they would need 2 or 3 Jedi to post in their thread. The Jedi would have to read the thread, and make his/her discession accordingly.

[Rama]

and we are back to the root of the problem.....everyone wants to do their thing and no one wants to do anyone elses.....and so nothing gets done.


We are gonna have to make hard decsions that some may not like(myself inculded) cause we can't wait for something to come along that everyone will agree on..........cause that is never gonna happen.


*Edit: spelling

[Morgan Evanar]

http://www.pentasmal.com/comics/20020311.png

[ReaperFett]

Suprise and the unknown are things I rely on in my writing.
So you dont want to ever tell us of updates in Abira's RPs? SO we know where he is? Oooooook

[Sanis Prent]

Yes. After they happen. Almost never before that, though. That ruins stories.

[Live Wire]

I agree with anbira...if someone wants to join you can give them the info they need to participate but to give a synopsis of the whole thread takes the fun out of it. Its like reading the cliff notes before you read the book. Sure you do that for school but if its a book you WANT to read then whats the point.

[ReaperFett]

I did mean after. Sorry if I wrote it bad :)

[Pierce Tondry]

YO! Youse guys need to turn those frowns upside down, and I got just the thing for that. We call 'em "Doobie Snacks!"

Good lawd, this place has gotten antsy while I've been away.

Now, here's the problem, as I see it.

People came down from the trees.

Ha! That was a bit of Douglas Adams humor to put you folks at ease. Here's the real problem, as I see it.

It is well known that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly upon our point of view. What RolePlaying (RPing) is for one person may not be the same for the next person. As everyone's concept differs at least slightly, problems and friction occur when people get together and RP towards different ends.

Even in the standard "Jedi vs. Sith" fight RP, we run into this problem. As two apprentices rarely manage to start on the same date AND put in the same amount of RPing hours, they are rarely going to be at the same level of experience. So someone has to be the underdog, which unfortunately, rarely happens because both people want to win.

Since this isn't an RPG with quantifiable rules, statistics, regulations, ranks, d20 rolls, and so forth, determining exactly who wins when is difficult.

The same logic can be applied to fleet threads as well. Often, the quantity of ships present determines the victor, rather than ship class, technology, etc. We've had to dumb everything down in order to make it practical on the most basic of levels, and because of that players with experience often feel cheated. They get no satisfaction from "winning", so they work at the current ruleset to see if they can find loopholes to exploit to grant them a permanent advantage. This goes against basic principles of fairness and is usually remedied later down the road. At which point some players (usually the same ones) are unsatisfied and the cycle begins again.

The storytellers have the greatest advantage in the game. Their style of RP leads them to create detailed backgrounds, character attitudes, and goals for themselves so anyone facing against that character has a pretty good idea what they are up against and whether they can defeat it. The inherent problem with storytelling is that it 1.) takes so very long to finish, so ideas and concepts that would make great RPs often get bypassed and 2.) means that they have to adapt their RPing style just to take part in a simple fight.

RPers with similar styles of RolePlay and temperament often coagulate around each other. (Examples of this are easy to provide, but will not be due to the fact that my outlook on things would probably offend some players) This is a natural occurrence, and no one can actually be blamed for it. These groups develop objectives for themselves that bring them into direct conflict with other groups.

Then someone intelligent comes along and spells out the fact that all the hostility and friction occurring on the boards exist in today's society (which this board is simply a miniature version of) and that the same methods that work to bring those problems under control in the "real world" can be used to solve them here. Education, communication, positive mental attitudes, a dose of serenety, a dash of integrity, and the absence of judgement and prejudice are key elements to this recipe.

To summarize:

1.) Educate the newbies properly. This will encourage them to come up with ideas that benefit the group.

2.) Communicate with fellow RPers on your plans. This cuts down on instances where half of SWFans isn't aware of what the other half is doing.

3.) Come to RPing with an open mind. Don't be afraid to try new things or suggestions, even you don't like them.

4.) DO NOT GET UPSET ON THESE BOARDS. If you do get upset, leave, meditate and reflect on what made you upset, then come back with a resolve to work on that.

5.) Trust your fellow RPers not to screw you over. This is especially hard to do in some cases, and if you can't do it with a certain person or group... well, don't interact with them. I know this goes in the face of everything trying to be done, but if there is less friction in individual doses, there will be less friction overall.

6.) Don't label or condemn people. Even people who actively disrupt the RolePlay should simply be shunted aside, not frequently bashed and flamed (even though we all know this is fun to do, especially when it comes to people like Itala Marzullo, we as a group need to limit that because it sets a bad example)

Does this sound like a self-help book? Because it sure did to me.

Anyway... these are my suggestions. Take them or leave them.

As an addition to this message, I'd like to say that I am leaving mainstream RolePlaying for the foreseeable future, except in small doses. I will continue to play my Hobgoblin and Tondry characters, but they will be limited in their ability to react to current events. In addition, I will be doing "EU fiction"-based storytelling with an old character of mine, Ibran Crissean.

I would be happy to linger as a Mod who has experience in calming fires, but I simply can't be expected to do the Fleet Moderator job I previously volunteered for without a constant Internet connection. I may resume this post down the road if things change, but for now it is best if I simply turn the responsibility over to someone with the modem to handle it.

Hope you enjoyed the sermon. Now I have to be going. Got class.

BONNNNG!

[Anbira Hicchoru]

Right on, Lunchbox :lol

[Jedi Neo]

Ok kids, I think we have kind of drug this out...

We have now identified the problem to the point where even Ahnk can agree on it! Now we need to solve it, any suggestions other then the ones that we have thrown around in here?


:A seal Barks...:

[Sith Ahnk]

We have now identified the problem to the point where even Ahnk can agree on it! Now we need to solve it, any suggestions other then the ones that we have thrown around in here?

I'm going to take that as an insult. :mad:mad:mad

[Lilaena De'Ville]

As an addition to this message, I'd like to say that I am leaving mainstream RolePlaying for the foreseeable future, except in small doses.

:(

[ReaperFett]

Yeah Neo, no need to get offensive.