The Thread of Life

[ReturnOfTheCB]

...carrying on conversations in other threads :D

Anyway, in response to your post about college/life, etc. I used to look at it like I was just in college because you "have to to be successful"...but, I think the only reason I'm still here is because it's a necessary step towards what I want to do (go to law school with a genetics degree and get into bioethics/legal issues of genetics)...plus, I'm using it as a chance to learn stuff that I normally wouldn't have the chance...I'm getting a Latin minor just for the hell of it, and I'm now considering one in Philosophy or Psychology...but yeah, I've changed the way I think in the past year or so, so I say do what you want, what you enjoy doing, don't do it because anyone else says you have to...if what you want to do, you don't have to go to college to do, then don't go...it's just a waste of time if you've already got yourself set...I've thought about writing, just for fun though, it'd be fiction, mind you, I've been really inspired by a few of the moder writing styles like Chuch Palahnuik (fight club, choke, survivor, other books) and Mark Danielewski (House of Leaves), but I don't imagine it'd stand a chance at getting published, so I'll probably just start it as something when I'm bored, or up at 3 in the morning and can't sleep...I sure as hell wish I could find a job that pays 5 figures now! (of course, I'd probably stay in school)...I've heard from a few of my advisors/teachers that people doing what I'm wanting to do (genetics/law) are getting upwards of 45,000 a year while in law school to research for law firms, so I'll look into that in a few years, but I'm a full time student as of right now.....between that and karate, and the other extra-curricular stuff I'm doing, I don't really have time for a traditional job, so I'll probably be broke for a few years :D

But yeah man, do what you want to do, you're an adult now, whether your parents want to give you that credit or not, don't let anyone else influence you...I can imagine nothing worse than giving yourself away to a life you don't enjoy, doing something because everyone says you have to, and looking back years from now and regretting it all.....

Of course, if law school doesn't go through, I may end up running a coffee shop and teaching karate for a living :D (I want to do that when I retire anyway)....I don't see any point in having hideously large sums of money if you aren't enjoying what you're doing.....

[ReturnOfTheCB]

Oh, to the mods....I put it in this forum cause I wasn't sure if it'd fit in anywhere else, since it says "general discussions"...if it's not the right place, I apologize, and feel free to move it....

Oh, and anyone else that wants to put in their two cents about life, etc. feel free to do so....

[JMK]

I think this is a good place for this thread. And my outlook on life:

"Quitters never lose" and
"The lesson is to never try".

:D
Well, I subscribe to those philosophies at least 10% of the time. :lol

[JonathanLB]

"between that and karate, and the other extra-curricular stuff I'm doing, I don't really have time for a traditional job, so I'll probably be broke for a few years"

Well see that is the problem. I would kind of like to finish college and get my degree because, you know, it can open a lot of other doors and I DO enjoy learning. I was thinking of majoring in philosophy and even though that is technically "worthless for getting a job," it's a wonderful major and I love philosophy. I just am having problems with seeing where exactly the time is going to come from. I am going to want to spend about 20 to 25 hours per week on my writing and even then, that's not very much, but it'll keep me making solid progress. Then I have to spend 25 hours per week (some weeks it could be 40 if something came up) on online business, especially in the next year or two when it's really make or break time.

On a quick side note, I saw that article about Harry Knowles in Entertainment Weekly and he has become such a major force just from his Website. I'm not saying I can get to Harry Knowles level, but I think with a ton of hard work, in two years, my site will be recognized by media organizations and surfers as a great source for movie information and reviews. That is my hope, anyway, and I don't see why I should give up on it. It can be done.

So back to the point, 25 hours plus 25 hours is 50 hours per week on writing and on business. Now for me that is not a big deal because I love both and anyway, I can get up at whatever time I want to do this type of work and I can also "take a week off" to an extent. Of course I have to spend a certain amount of time per day on the business, but I could take a week off of my writing and then cut back online so that I'd only have to work perhaps 15 hours in a week where I felt sick/tired/exhausted or just wanted a mini-break. There is no such luxury in the workplace or in school.

I am just thinking that if you have 45 to 50 hours already, that's more than a full time job. How can I add college, another full-time job, on top of that and still have any time left at all for sleeping and for hanging out with my friends or just enjoying life in general? That would be something around 80 hours per week if I took 12 units even, but if I took 15 units (the normal amount, which will be impossible regardless), then I'd be up to maybe 85-88 hours per week. If there are about 14 hours per day not spent on either sleeping or eating or cleaning the room and doing laundry, etc., then that gives you 98 hours per week total. Spending 80 of them on work, even, just does not seem right to me. I don't think that's a good idea at all.

I like Thoreau's saying about how sad it is when a man spends the better part of his life "getting his living." Truly, there is no greater mistake than that. You never will sit there on your death bed wishing you had worked more. You'll wish you had spent more time with the people who are important to you or more time relaxing or some other unfulfilled goal. For instance, right now, you might say, "NO! I just wanted to see the final two Star Wars prequels! Why, God, why?!?!" lol.

It sounds like you are keeping yourself very busy, CB, and for obvious reasons you need college to do what it is that interests you. If that were my case, I don't think I'd have a problem with it. According to the rough math I did, if you took 12 units per term for 5 years (that would be enough to graduate), then you'd spend 750 hours *minimum* per year, so 3,750 hours total on college. That is such an incredible amount of time. I mean, do I need to explain what you can do with that time?! I wrote my first book, found an agent, read about ten books on the publishing industry, hundreds of articles, and wrote my book proposal for it in about 1,000 hours. My DreamWorks book, now that I already am a solid writer and have an agent, has only taken me about 150 hours so far. It will, in total, perhaps require about 300 hours. At that rate, with college I could essentially write an extra 8 books or so, give or take 2, with the time I would have spent on it. So clearly if I am to spend that much time, there has to be some very, very compelling reason to do so.

As far as meeting new people and making connections, well if I live in the same small college town with all of my friends for three years I am positive I will meet many new people. I never met too many people in class here at LMU anyway. They didn't allow you to talk to anyone, so I never really met anyone hardly. Got to know a few people a bit better but mostly, it was ineffective.

To do what I want/love to do, I would be willing to do almost anything, therefore if I did need college for that, clearly I would make it a priority and succeed just as I did in my first semester and throughout high school.

I guess another problem I have is that I was basically raised thinking people who didn't complete college are failures and not intelligent or something. Actually my mom did not complete it, but you know, my dad would always make remarks to the effect of "Those people who didn't even finish college blah blah," etc. So my own opinion of non-college grads is probably worse than most people, even though I know now that you can be very successful obviously without 4 years more schooling, which is all it is. It doesn't make you "more educated." That's really naive thinking. It CAN, yes, but if you are interested in learning you can still read on your own and you can learn more through experience than what you ever would learn through books alone.

My friend was telling me about this argument he had with a girl who was saying, "Well you have to have a degree!" (This friend of mine does have one anyway, he's in science/research right now). My friend said, "Why do you have to have a degree?" "Well because, it's just, you have to have one to succeed. I mean it's necessary." She couldn't give a better definition than that and she was out of college, which is really sad. It just proves how many people are STUCK in that box and all they can do is THINK INSIDE THE BOX. I don't get it. Why aren't more people more innovative? Every scenario should be evaluated, not just the one clearly laid before you.

I will make my entire somewhat anti-college argument in my book, so I will save it for that, but I believe, in short, that college is encouraging laziness because most people are not even attempting to find out what they would want to do with themselves during high school. Instead they just put it off until later and the only real reason some of them go to college (I have friends like this) is because they are too lazy to go into the workplace or too scared of it. They don't really know WHY they are in college nor could they tell you, except they "like it" because of the parties and all of that stuff. They are the reactionaries. In the game of life, they are the ultimate procrastinators. I procrastinate with my HOMEWORK, not with my LIFE! They procrastinate with their very existences, which is scary to me.

Even if you know you need college, there is nothing wrong with getting into whatever you can before you are a graduate. You should be pursuing internship possibilities early, you should be doing your own reading and research that has nothing to do with school whatsoever, and you should be proactive about your own destiny. I don't see that many college students who are like this.

Here is a quote from an essay we read in class this last semester that I used for a research paper:

"By bringing everyone up to college level, colleges have been brought down to everyone's level."

It is no longer an elite institution of learning as it should be where only the top people make it. Instead, you get EVERYONE at college, even the people who obviously do not have a place there, which inevitably brings the quality of the education down and ruins college as an institution for higher learning. Instead, it's just a place where many people have to take remedial classes because they were so far behind in high school. Everyone suffers because of that. There are so many problems with college I obviously could not begin to describe them here. That's why I seriously need a book on the subject and I am glad it came to me to write one because having all of these ideas/opinions/thoughts in my head without getting them out is annoying me more every day! :)

That's what it is to be an author in my experience. I don't write just because I feel like it. I write because I feel I MUST write!

[ReturnOfTheCB]

Originally posted by JonathanLB
Even if you know you need college, there is nothing wrong with getting into whatever you can before you are a graduate. You should be pursuing internship possibilities early, you should be doing your own reading and research that has nothing to do with school whatsoever, and you should be proactive about your own destiny. I don't see that many college students who are like this.


Yeah, I'm kinda taking that approach....I'm not one of those people who's just "in college" (though I've got some stuff to get straightened out this year, so it's taking up most of my time)....speaking of internships, I'm already looking at those too...our school offers some in Washingtone DC. related to my major, so I'm looking at that....there's also a few study abroad programs I'm looking at too, just because I want to experience more than just the classroom (hence why I'm doing karate as well)...I'm really enjoying being involved in our Bioethics Forum, we're planning a national conference for March '03, and it's interesting to see all of the stuff that I'm interested in but you can't really learn in the classroom just yet...I woud've been on a mock trial team this year, just for the fun of competing (I love debate/mock trial), but my team bailed out on me and another member a week before the competition, and this semester we would've had to start all over with a new team, so I'm waiting till next year for that...I almost feel sorry for the people who are so tunnelvisioned that they just see the classroom as their life for the next 4 years...one of my friends is like that....ironically though, I have to go do my Latin homework right now :D so I'll leave it at that for now.

[JonathanLB]

Yeah that is cool you have a lot of other things going on that interest you.

What you said at the end is exactly what I am talking about, though. I wish these people were all forced to take a philosophy class like the one I had first semester, or something even more intense maybe. They need SOMEBODY TO OPEN THEIR EYES! I think it is a horrible tragedy that these people are not really living their lives, they are just existing. They just go day to day without any plans or goals besides perhaps going to a kegger on Saturday or a party on Friday or hanging out and watching a movie on Thursday. I mean, there is nothing wrong with all of that and people should have fun too, but I don't understand how they can live with themselves being so reactionary.

The only real reason they get a job, the only real reason most people get jobs, is as a reaction to the fact that they either need to work or starve. I don't think that's a very good reason for anything. I think it should be someone saying, "I WANT to get a job at this company because I feel that my time there will make a difference, even if just a very small difference, in someone's life and I feel that I am contributing meaningfully to humankind by doing this." At least with my work I can say, "I WANT to be doing this and if I were not doing it, I could not be happy! I must run several major Websites because to me, that's fun, that's exciting, and I love meeting the other Webmasters and being part of the Internet economy." I love my writing too and it's all just thrilling to me, so I would not be doing it because I need to do so to make my money. Even if I was set for life, this is what I would choose to do because I want to be somebody, not just anybody :)

I would die if I just had to focus on the classroom and nothing else. I got bored of that after less than two years in high school when I first started researching my TPM book. Then I spent most of junior year in more intense research and writing, plus my own freelance writing, and that made me feel for the first time like I was really LIVING, not just existing. Because as a student, I felt worthless. I was just another person going through the motions and I meant nothing. All I could say that I was proud of was, "Well I am a very good student and I have good grades." That defined who I was. I was just a smart guy with good grades, but I felt like I was nothing more than that, not any more interesting, pretty one-dimensional really. Then when I started doing my writing and when I launched my first Website and even bought my second one, I started to feel more like I was different from other people and there was more to my life than just studying, which was a great feeling.

Now, the whole studying/homework/test thing is just not in the front of my mind. I prefer to be DOING, like launching new Websites or making deals or writing reviews or books or figuring out ways to cut my costs and increase my revenue, all of those good things. That way when I am 25, I'll be the one really enjoying myself and working less than anyone else while still making more money and having more fun. The other people may be having more fun right now, but I'll give up a few parties and a few years of that nonsense so that I can do what I love for the rest of my life.

How cool would it be to make a living from running a JOKE and HUMOR Website and a MOVIE review Website?! I mean, that's not even a real job! Then I can write books as I please without worrying about my revenue and I can go on book tours myself or do whatever, live wherever I want because I'll have no employer, move wherever my friends move because I won't need to quit my job, etc.

I think more people SAY they like their jobs when in reality, if you asked them the question, "If you had $100 million, would you quit your job?" Almost all of them, as in 99.5%, would say, "Yes, absolutely." If I had $100 million, nothing would change except that I'd feel no stress or pressure doing what I am doing now and I'd pay off that loan I have outstanding ;)

Aside from that, I would continue as I am now but I'd probably buy a McClaren F1 just because I need my own sleek car. I wouldn't need a big house or anything, rather have an apartment because that way I could move around easily and not be stuck anywhere. Wouldn't want a lot of material possessions, too much trouble and they do not bring happiness anyway, so I'd just get a ton of DVDs and that'd be pretty much that. The rest I'd save and nothing else about my life would change. I think people should strive to find a job that they go to every day not just for the money, but because it is personally fulfilling and they actually -- shock of shocks -- WANT to be there!

[Champion of the Force]

I put it in this forum cause I wasn't sure if it'd fit in anywhere else, since it says "general discussions"...
Spot on.

She's in the right place CB - you're fine. :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

I agree too this is a good place as any for this thread.

[JonathanLB]

You know you guys can add your feedback too if you want :D

[Jedieb]

Life is hard and then you die. Any questions? :smokin

People don't dig ditches because they love to shovel dirt. Everyday people go off to work at jobs they hate because they HAVE to. They don't have the luxury of finding something they can enjoy doing. They work because they have to eat, pay bills, and support others. Now I like my professoin. I CHOSE it for a host of reasons. But if I could walk away I'd do it in a heartbeat. I don't have the luxury of earning pennies doing something that I love and doesn't feel like work. My kids have to eat and the mortgage needs to be paid. I graduated with over $50,000 of debt and a marriage. I had no time to go around searching for something that I loved, I had responsibilities to live up to. There was no magic money fund for me to live off of while I found my carefree dream job ot to help me get started.

MY LIFE has taught me something over and over, I'M LUCKIER THAN MOST. As brutal as work can be, as tough as saving and living below my means so that my kids don't have to work multiple jobs just to get through school like I did, I'm well aware that I have had the luxury that MANY only dream about. They are the following;

2 Parents (1 Mom, 1 Dad)
Food was always on the table
Non-abusive parents
Non-alcholic parents
No sexual abuse
No homelessness
Grandparents
No drugs in the house
No one got pregnant before they were ready
I tested well
Didn't have a SCUD land on my head
Never saw my mom get smacked around
Never saw someone in the neighborhood get shot
Never had someone call me a racial slur in front of my daughter just because I decided to close the store on time
Never got pulled over because I "matched" the description

I could go on and on about things to be grateful about. But not everybody is as lucky as I am. I see kids every day that have already had many of those things happen to them. If they end up working at a tough job they can't quit but still lead a decent life then they'll consider themselves lucky too. That's life for most people. It's not about living a dream, it's about LIVING and SURVIVING.

rant over, time for lunch

[ReturnOfTheCB]

Ok, let me rephrase the discussion...perhaps doing what you enjoy isn't the most important, but perhaps deriving enjoyment from life is...now, point taken, Jedieb, I had failed to account in my discussion that you could enjoy life without having the dream job....but I do think that what is the point in life/survival if there is no pleasure whatsoever to be found in it?

[Jedieb]

The point can be something as simple as fighting the good fight and living your life the right way. Someone like Doc may may place more emphasis on the spiritual side of things. As I said before, I consider myself to be VERY lucky. I take my pleasures from staring out the window and watching my son play in the dirt with his Tonka toys, seeing my daughter stand up on her own for the first time, or gettng grabby and suggestive with my wife whenever she wears a particularly fetching business suit to work. There's something about those skirts.... but I digress. Yeah, I'd love to be writing for some sitcom or cranking out hilarious screenplays, but even then, the work would exist to enjoy what's waiting for me at home. Again, I like my job, but work is still work. If I didn't HAVE to do it I probably wouldn't. Not everybody lucks out and lands something that feels so good they'd probably do it for free.

[ReturnOfTheCB]

Well, in the spiritual context, you would enjoy life because it brings you spritual satisfaction....in the example you're using, you find pleasure from the little things....people find pleasure and enjoyment in their lives in many ways, and for some, they can't find that pleasure unless they're doing what they enjoy doing...but if you have the chance to do something you want to do and be productive, or to do something you don't want to do and be productive, I think it better to do what you want, so you don't live your life full of regret.....

[Jedieb]

That's the thing though, nobody PURPOSELY says, "Hey, I'm going to do something I hate instead of something I love!!" Often times, life chooses for you. My dad would have loved to have stayed in Cuba and become a farmer. But Fidel chose for him so he had to leave and start a life as best he could in a foreign land in which he didn't even speak the language. 40 years later he's still working like a dog, but he's got a home, wife, and both his kids have graduated from college. He did better than many would in his situation. He doesn't love his job, he loves WOKRING. With better opportunities or a different starting point he could have been the one owning the factory instead of working in it, but life isn't always fair. Most people just don't have the luxury to go into something they adore. They need a paycheck and they need it now.

Ahh, some days I love my job, some days I just like it. But I'm always aware of how long I've got until retirement. 22 years, 4 months, ......

[ReturnOfTheCB]

Well, sometimes people do make a choice like that voluntarily....let's say society dictates (society including parents, etc.) that to be successful, you have to go to college and become a bussiness man (or woman)...now let's say that someone is faced with going to college down this track that everyone says is "successful" or he can choose another job, where he can be productive, earn a living, and thoroughly enjoy what he does...a lot of times, due to outside pressures that people can control, they chose a track that later leaves them with a life of regret....and of course, this was originally started in the context of Jon's situation, where he can go to college, which I think he said he hates, or he can pursue other jobs that he enjoys doing and be just as productive......that's the situation I'm talking about....now, in this situation, it is one where the person has control over their life, if the will just not allow others to influence it....your situation, and your example, are different of course, and I'm not saying that it's wrong at all, it just depends on the situation....I need to remember to be more specific in my discussions :D

[Doc Milo]

Situations can dictate a lot in life. But also the things we choose to stress as important can also play a role. We have to remember that success is a very subjective thing. To one person, success can mean making a boat-load of money, having a beautiful woman on their arm, decked out in expensive fur and jewlery, and driving an expensive foreign sports car. To others, it can be a fulfilling relationship with God, even if they live in abject poverty, struggling daily just to get by.

We all can't do for a living what we love to do. Take me. I love to write. I hate to sell. I am good at writing. I suck at selling. Easy dilema? Get an agent. Except you need to sell yourself to the agent... I am not good at selling myself. My work can sell for itself? Except you need to sell yourself before they'll look at your work... I don't let it stop me from writing. Writing is something I love to do. I've sold some stuff, but never enough to make a career out of it. Is it because I'm not talented at it? Maybe. Is it because I just suck at selling? Possibly. But I consider myself a writer because that is who I am, whether or not I am ever successful (in the monetary sense) at it. But I also need to pay the bills. I'm getting married. I need to save money. So I have to work a job I sometimes like, sometimes hate, under an employer that really doesn't respect the job I (we, as I'm one of a few in the same title, represented by the same union) do, with whom we are constantly fighting for a contract (we typically negotiate contracts two years later, then get paid retroactively.) But the job, for the work that has to be done, does pay very well (although there are others in a different division of the same company that get paid better to do the same exact job, but I digress...) And the hours I have are excellent for my social life, plus to give me time for writing. These are aspects I love about the job. There are other aspects I hate. If I would win lotto and be independantly wealthy, I would quit in the middle of the shift and never look back! Then I'd open my own publishing company or something like that...

But despite my writing career not being where I want it to be (and I would say that's just as much my fault as it is situations I'd have to deal with in life) I still consider myself a success. Because I don't consider those things important enough to define my success. Writing is who I am. But I write for me. I'd like to make a career of it, but that's not why I write, so I refuse to judge my success at writing by how much of it I sell. My success is defined by my family, and my relationship with them; by my relationship with my fiance and my soon-to-be stepchildren. And, above all that, by my relationship with God. The only times I will ever feel like a failure is if I have trouble in those relationships.

But that doesn't mean to not try to do what you love to do. And if you have the means to live and survive while pursuing those things you love, then that is the way to go.

<center>"You know a dream is like a river
Ever changing as it flows
And the dreamer's just a vessel
That must follow where it goes

Trying to learn from what's behind you
And never knowing what's in store
Makes each day a constant battle
Just to stay between the shores

I will sail my vessel
'Till the river runs dry
Like a bird upon the wind
These waters are my sky
I'll never reach my destination
If I never try.
So I will sail my vessel
'Till the river runs dry.

Too many times we stand aside
And let the water slip away
'Till what we put off till tomorrow
Has now become today

So don't you sit upon the shoreline
And say you're satisfied.
Choose to chance the rapids
Dare to dance the tide.

And I will sail my vessel
Till the river runs dry
Like a bird upon the wind
These waters are my sky.
I'll never reach my destination
If I never try.
So I will sail my vessel
'Till the river runs dry.

There's bound to be rough waters
And I know I'll take some falls
But with the Good Lord as my Captain
I'll make it through them all.

And I will sail my vessel
'Till the river runs dry
Like a bird upon the wind
These waters are my sky.
I'll never reach my destination
If I never try.
So I will sail my vessel
'Till the river runs dry.

Yes I will sail my vessel
'Till the river runs dry."

(Garth Brooks, The River)</center>

[ReturnOfTheCB]

Of course, I think a lot of people's happiness in life comes from their focus...the more you realize that having the most money, the best grades, etc. in and of itself is not what makes one happy, the more you are free to do what you really enjoy, or even derive pleasure from whatever it is you're doing then....I think a good deal of it is attitude and focus, realizing what's really important, and what's not.....Doc, I echo a lot of your sentiments, I'm just so used to having to keep the religious side of anything out of the forum (waaaay back in the day there were some problems with it, so I got in the habit of not saying anything).....and I always thought that was a cool song :D

[ReturnOfTheCB]

Thanks for the edit mod (I'm serious)...just wanted it out there originally to get the attention of those whom it concerned :)

[Mu Satach]

just skimming thoughts...

80% of the jobs out there don't really care what your degree is in, they care more about if you have the skills that they want for the job... so if you like philosophy, linguistics, etc. and your not trying to get into a profession like Law, Doctor, or Engineer, that requires specific training... major in whatever the hell interests you. (and just a note to Jon, if you like philosophy and want to be a writer that's cool. Steve Martin studies philosophy and he uses a lot of that in his writing... which he's done quite a lot of plays in addition to his goofy movies that's he's more well known for)

if you've got a plan of what your working towards and it doesn't need a degree, go for it... most self made business men don't wait around for the MBA etc.

and as too whether you get to choose what you do or life chooses for you is a matter or other choices. I like my job right now, I like it a lot but it's not what I really want to do. So as I don't have any dependants I'm still free to choose another path. If I was married, had children, or a really serious financial debt, (I've got a pretty ugly one, but it's not unmanagable.) my choices about what I want to do would be severely limited.

but I believe we all have choices, but it comes down to what we value more at the time... so what you choose to do relates to what you value. Jedieb's father obviously valued his family more than his personal desires, same with my mother, she would rather be an artist and living a rather boheimian lifestyle, but she placed a higher value on seeing that me and my sister were taken care of and given greater opportunities, so she works as an office assistant and has for the past 16 years... it's not a job she absolutely loves, but she does it because it's what she needs to do to ensure what she values is taken care of.

[JonathanLB]

I think each person's situation can define for a long time what opportunities exist to them, but I also think those people who are truly driven to succeed will find a way, if that is meant to be. As my philosophy teacher said, some people are simply not destined or built for greatness and for these people to try to be anything more than average is only going to result in painful failure.

I think these people know who they are, though, and they redefine success to meet their own lives. I think you know if you have what it takes to succeed. It's just that undying courage to try whatever you must to get where you want, even if you know the odds are stacked against you, and then never accepting no as an answer and just not giving up.

If one author fails with his first book and finds no publisher, but writes another book, then another author fails with his first book and quits, only ONE of those two is a failure. The guy who keeps on trying is a success. He has not given up on himself or his dreams and simply refuses to accept defeat, so he tries again. The one who quit was never supposed to be an author because he obviously lacked the conviction in his own abilities to succeed. Plus, if his first book had failed to sell well, he'd have given up after that too. He's a failure because he's a quitter.

Now Doc, you have a good point about selling. That's a really key part of being an author. Selling yourself is absolutely vital. I'm not actually all that good in that department, but I can manage to get by and I think that my passion for what I write about will definitely help me promote my books when I get that opportunity. At least, I managed to get an agent! I think you can too, just don't give up, you will do fine. You just have to believe you are destined for success and it's only a matter of time, because with that attitude, it is only a matter of time.

There are too many authors for every one of them to be successful in getting a book published or even sold well. So, to combat that, publishers make you get an agent generally, and agents weed their submissions out carefully. This way, anyone who cannot take receiving rejection after rejection quits, thus making it easier for everyone else to succeed -- those people who really want it. You simply don't want it badly enough if you are willing to quit because of a few setbacks.

Setbacks are just that, setbacks, not endings. You can't think of a rejection as an ending, just one rejection closer to success. Hard to keep a positive attitude always, perhaps, but you have to at least believe that there are only two options 1) you stop believing it's possible and you give up OR 2) you keep trying and believe you will succeed. I think the choice is clear...

Jedieb, I think it is important appreciating the little things in life, because really how can you be happy if you can't appreciate just normal, everyday things that should bring a smile to your face? Still, I need more than that to make me feel like I am truly living instead of just existing or surviving, as you said. To me, it's very sad that people go through their lives, most people even, without really living.

From the Death of Ivan Illyich, the quote is something like, "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation." As my philosophy teacher said, that is quite a profound and depressing statement, and as he also mentions, most people "in this room today" are going to have these regrets when they are on their death beds. Of course, that is a very sad thought, but not if you just use that idea to your advantage and think actively about how you are going to make sure you are NOT going to be like Ivan! So, you cannot see that in a depressing light as long as you know you are doing something about it to make sure that is not you.

If I was in a totally different situation, I'd just have to adapt appropriately. If I really needed the money, I would work a lousy, unfun job from 9 to 5 and then I'd come home and do my writing as much as I could, really working myself to exhaustion so that I could get out of that situation and eventually perhaps quit that day job. It would drive me daily to succeed, but of course, I have had a very favorable situation and a life that has lent well to me being able to do whatever. Not everyone is even close to so lucky, I realize. I'm very thankful for the fact that I have not had to get a minimum wage job and that instead I've been able to put my time into much more interesting and fulfilling pursuits.

I have often thought about that and thought about how much I am a product of my own environment, of course. It would be stupid to think I could have done all of this just as easily had I have grown up in a broken home where I was expected to go out and work at 15 or whatever, then I had to deal with domestic violence or I went to a poor school, etc. Of course, I guess everyone is really a product of their environment to a certain degree, but I also like to think that I have that drive to succeed and that I could have been put anywhere and eventually I'd have figured out a way to do what I really want, even if that ended up being something different.

I am not really sure, though, how many of my strengths are simply who I am and how many of them were developed through habits from a young age and through my parents and everything. It's just impossible to know really, but at least I am thankful for the opportunities I have had.

As CountryBoy said, yes, the situation facing me is more like should I follow this path that is expected of me (and there is nothing really "wrong" with this path), or should I forge my own path that is definitely riskier, but I believe more rewarding?

I don't have to choose quite yet and I don't have the luxury of having that choice *just yet*, but I am pretty sure it will be open in one year or less.

Basically, I think I'll be making about $3,000 per month online in profit by July. The problem is that some of that is split with my dad, perhaps $1,000 of it, so of course it would not be really great to live on just $2K per month (I can do it, but I wouldn't). I have seen ad rates return a bit lately and I am expecting the end of this recession to help greatly. It's showing up so far, but just will take many months to help the bottom line significantly. Even if not, I'll be doing fine. In November, I have the option to buy my dad's portion of the two Websites I bought a year before that time. So, I will try to make sure I have that money from a book deal (hopefully) so that I can take full control of the enterprise. That'll give me actually four fairly major Websites all making a bit of money and also, I'll have my writing career, but I would not want to go out on my own without the assurance that I have both a writing career and my success in online business. At least that gives me two legs to stand on, so to speak, instead of just relying on one fairly risky profession (either one is risky).

I have pretty much made up my mind I will stay through the first year of college regardless. I need to save money up and I need to build my own income, so unless college was severely distracting from my ability to run my business and write, then I will bear the extra stress of having 75 hour work weeks for one year, at least, so that I may do what I enjoy forever after that, hopefully.

Plus, if I tough it out for one year, I get the benefit of another summer of relaxation too, where I can live at home for four months basically and "pretend" I will go to college the next year, have the luxury of mooching off my parents still, enjoying my house, and doing exactly what I would be doing anyway: business and writing and friends. So then I would just plan to room with Ben again in a double apartment the year after, save myself a ton of money (living expense: $290 per month), and quit college sometime as the final "class drop date" comes up, so perhaps that would be like October or early November, which would mean I could stop attending classes while still having my parents pay for everything, until that final date, when WAM, the entire charade comes crashing down, I depart college with a solid $50,000 at least, then begin living on my own and paying my own way, hasta la vista homework. Haha.

Nah I'll give OSU a chance, if I like it AND can handle it, fine that is great, but if not, it just will not work out for more than a year.

[Jedieb]

I would advise anyone in college to stay and get their degree. Mu Satach is right, most employers are mainly interested in the fact that you have a degree, not necessairly what your major is. My wife's degree is in Accounting but she's a senior analyst for a health care corporation. Much of her job entails working with doctors and the medical billing software that they use in conjunction with the company she works for. Funny thing is, it was her part time job in college working in a doctor's office that led her to her current position, not her degree. But without her degree she wouldn't have been qualified for many of her promotions, so it's kind of a catch-22.

I loved college partly because I studied what I wanted to study. My parents wanted me to be an engineer, but I wanted to teach. It was MY choice. In many ways college is a last hurrah. That last chance to not have everyone around you depending on you. 30 is VERY different from 20. Hanging around campus, going out with guys, road trips, etc.. If I regret anything it's not cutting loose a little more often, but I'd never go back and change anything. Changing something back then would mean I'd risk not ending up where I am now and there's no place I'd rather be.

As for greatness being a thing of destiny... History is littered with stories that show just how important blind luck can be. A manuscript gets "discovered", an actor meets a producer in line for a movie, they become friends, and next year he's on a new late night show and then he's a movie star. If he doesn't go to the movies that one night he never becomes a success. I could go on and on. Somewhere, some hack is getting his 5th soldier of fortune of novel published, or some airhead that gave a powerful man of a BJ gets a million dollar book deal, but Doc can't get a major break. Very often, life just isn't fair.

Happiness and success don't always go hand in hand. There are plenty of CEO's out there who are miserable, and not all the houses on the beach are going to make them happy. Fame isn't always the answer either. How many celebrity rehab stories do we have to endure to drive that point home? There are waitresses out there that will end up leading happier lives than these "successful" people. A nun leads a life of abject poverty, but dedicates that life to serving her fellow human beings and her faith. Meanwhile, Liz Taylor goes through 8 husbands and countless stays at the Betty Ford clinic. I'd wager that in many ways the nun got the better deal out of life. Who cares if more people remember Liz if she was miserable for much of her life?

[Mu Satach]

a major "roger roger" on everything the little green man just said. :)

[Doc Milo]

If I regret anything it's not cutting loose a little more often, but I'd never go back and change anything. Changing something back then would mean I'd risk not ending up where I am now and there's no place I'd rather be.

Funny, this reminds me of another Garth Brooks song:

<center>The Dance

Looking back on the memory of
The dance we shared
'neath the stars above

For a moment all the world was right
How could I have known
That you'd ever say goodbye.

But I -- I'm glad I didn't know
The way it all would end
The way it all would go.
Our lives are better left to chance
I could have missed the pain
But I'd have had to miss The Dance.

Holding you, I held everything
For a moment
Wasn't I the king.

If I'd only known that the king would fall
Well whose to say
You know, I might have changed it all

But I -- I'm glad I didn't know
The way it all would end
The way it all would go.
Our lives are better left to chance
I could have missed the pain
But I'd have had to miss The Dance.</center>

(Funny how things in this thread of life remind me of Garth Brooks songs, huh?)

I totally agree with what Jedieb has said about college. I'd advise staying in college, but majoring in something that you want to major in -- something that is interesting to you. Jon, you've said before that you love to learn. Don't look at college as training you for a career. Look at it as a chance to learn the things you want to learn about. College is a lot different from High School. Sure, there are certain things that colleges demand be taken to provide a rounded education, but most of what you take in college is going to be your choice. Choose a major you want to learn about, and don't worry about whether or not you'll be able to "use your degree" for anything in the "real world."

Anything you learn in college is going to help you in a writing career, should that be the path you take -- especially philosophy and psychology. Understanding people and what makes them tick, whether you write fiction or non-fiction is ultimately going to be helpful, for that is what most writing is all about. Fiction at its best examines the human condition, how man reacts to his/her environment, how man relates to his/her fellow human beings, family, how they relate to God, nature, fate, destiny, natural and supernatural phenomena. Whether it's literary fiction or genre fiction, it all examines the same things, but treats those issues in different ways. Philosophy and psychology can only help when writing such things (I, myself, majored in English, concentration in Writing, but took many literature and pyschology classes. I didn't have a declared minor, but I think I was only a few credits shy of a minor in a few different areas of study. I took physics, astronomy, psycology, anthropology and history courses, beause those things (well, anthropology excepted, I found it boring and never took a second class in that) that interested me.) Writing non-fiction also uses such fields and areas. Even if you're writing a book about the boxoffice performance of different movies, you are, ultimately, studying human behavior. Those classes may give you some insight you may have not thought of before, or it may just give you another few directions from which to look at the subject matter.

I do want you to know, Jon, that I have not given up on my writing, nor trying to sell my writing. I could not live with myself if I had. I need to write. And I want to sell what I write, share what I write with others, and make a career out of it. But I don't define my success as a person based on that (on selling, not on writing.) I strive to become a better writer every day I write. And I must tell the story that those little people who hop on my shoulder start whispering in my ears, or I'd go insane (that's an illustration of what I feel, lest anyone think I already am insane!) I never let any rejection get me down. It gets frustrating, certainly, but if I keep at it, as you say, I will eventually succeed in publishing my works. However, I don't define my success or failure as a man based on whether or not I sell my writing. And no, I am not trying to redefine what success is. I just have different priorities as a man, things that I value more, like my relationships with God and family, than I do on any profession or career. I am a writer because I write -- not because I sell what I write. If I never sell another thing for the rest of my life, I will always consider myself a writer. Because that is who I am. But it is only a part of who I am, as well. I am also a brother, a fiance, soon to be a husband, soon to be a step-father. I am also a son, of my decesed parents, and of God. I am also a man (and I am sometimes a boy, thanks, in no small part, to Star Wars, really :))I am an employee at work, I am also a supervisor and someone's boss.

So I can't define success based on one small part of who I am. Nor can I base it on something that I am not (I am, in no way, shape, or form, a salesman!)

Success, according to society, has a specific meaning. But on an individual level, which, really, is the only level that counts, success is a very subjective thing. In the end, we must remain true to ourselves. As long as we do that, I believe, at least, our regrets in life will be outwhelmed by our happiness.

[JonathanLB]

I will respond in more detail later, but I'm about to take off back to my hotel (long story short, moving from LA to Portland back home, my mom is picking me up from this room, going back to the hotel).

It's not that I don't want to pursue getting a degree, it's simply that I am not sure I will have time to do that and continue to do what I am doing now. I like learning, but at least I can learn on my own time without having to take tests and midterms and finals and I have always learned far more on my own than in school.

I feel like I have already conquered that battleground. The whole school thing is just not fun, it's over now. I did it, did well, proved I can succeed at it already, it lost its appeal. Not to say I may not finish, but I'm not sure that I'll stick around to finish now. I could come back later or finish online, even if I do not finish in my early 20's.

The most I could take is 12 units per term. That'd make me finish in about 4.5 years after this next fall, which is 1.5 years after my friends ALL leave OSU. I'm not going to stay anywhere for even a month where my friends are totally gone. I already did that for a half-year at LMU -- it was the most miserable experience of my life.

I cannot imagine doing it again and I certainly won't chose to do so. Even if I stay in college three years, that would be it until later when I perhaps got my degree if I had the time at some later point.

Even 12 units seems impossible. That's 25 hours of school, at least, plus 25 to 30 hours of business, plus 20 hours of writing, and that's per week -- not possible, not that and having fun at least. I can tough it out for one year, but obviously not for 4.5. It's just too much to deal with and if it's not fun, why do it? Especially if it serves no real purpose.

I love learning, but who says I have to do it in school? I love business, but who says I have to work for someone else? I love writing, but who says I have to be a journalist? Nobody to any of those questions. I can find my own ways -- and better ways -- to do anything.

Sometimes the traditional path is the best, sometimes not.

I'll see how it goes in my first term or two at OSU next year, but I don't imagine I will probably be staying long. Not if I'm able to make enough money on my own, that is. I simply doubt I will have the time. Interest is not even the issue.

Although, there are required classes I simply refuse to take (requrid for certain majors, that is), so I'd have to find ways to avoid them. Even so, I cannot avoid a few required classes that are a total waste of my time and energy. Whenever I could spend my time better, I don't see why I would choose not to do so.

Doc -- good to hear about you continuing your writing. You'll do well, just keep it up. :)

Gotta go, take care...