Just throwing something out there Admins/Fleet peeps

[Sumor Rayial]

Don't really know if this has been thrown out there before or not, but what would be the reaction to a purely fleet OOC? I was thinking as a sub forum either here in OOC or in the shipyard area. I know a purely fleet RP forum was shot down before but I don't think a OOC one was ever suggested.

Currently there is a lot of good discussion about rules, RP's, etc. that hasn't been seen in a long time if ever. Personally I think that a forum dedicated to purely fleets discussion would aid this and keep this forum less cluttered with all our fleet threads (I personally have at least one more that I plan on starting and whether I do kinda depends on the reaction here.


Anyway thought I would throw it out and see if it floated or sank.

[Daegal Murdoch]

Gets my vote.

[Morgan Evanar]

The less I see about fleets, the happier I am.

[Charley]

I'm gonna have to go and disagree. I don't see the volume of fleet-related OOC as really needing a separate forum.

[Daegal Murdoch]

I didn't really think it was that big of a deal? It's just a subforum to keep things more organized, after all. :)

[Adm Garm Bel Iblis]

I don't see a need. There isn't enough to warrent a whole forum. And ideally ... I'd love to see less importance placed on fleets. Having our own OOC forum would be a step in the opposite direction.

Although ... you do have the Shipyards sub-forum already. Could you add an OOC board in there? It'd be nice and out of the way then.

[Darth Viscera]

I'd love to see less importance placed on fleets.
RP-political correctness at its worst, considering there hasn't been a major fleet battle in 430 days or so.

[Marcus Telcontar]

RP-political correctness at its worst, considering there hasn't been a major fleet battle in 430 days or so.


No, it's a statement that he believes the spectre of fleets generally hangs over the forums and it's not a plesant spectre.

Even if it's political Correctness, the fact is fleets are despised by some people and only tolerated by others. The fact there is actually a ruleset when we hardly have rules for anything else should be a major indication that there is a perception RP'ers just will not roleplay fleets with common sense and fairplay. It's an indictment that even after fleets were begun to be run better, playrs still hate them and would rather they were gone.

Doesnt that say something? Isnt also the indication that a rules discussion is like picking at an open sore in pleasentness a highlight for what fleets are seen as?

There should be no need for a fleet rule book - except there will be people who will pull a fleet out of their ass and **** up the place in some vain powergrab. Now quite basically, fleets should be done in line with the principles of common sense and fairplay. Thery should be self regulating, they should be looked on as a worthwhile addition to what we do here.

the fact they are one of the very few things regulated should be a hint and a half something is wrong and something continues to be wrong

Now if you want a fleet battle, making fleets something attractive to more players would be a damn good start! Think about what others see as being wrong, fix it, if necessary start again, and make them worthwhile to play and attractive, cause right now they dont seem to be!

</rant>

[Darth Viscera]

IC, people don't give two sh*ts about fleets right now, and you're trying to empower them to the end that they should never, ever have to give two sh*ts about fleets, or any other military in the star wars galaxy. I've got news for you-the Empire is not about personal freedoms, the right to choose, the ability for a Sith or a Jedi from a dubious faction to come and live on Coruscant without so much as RPing that they went through a customs checkpoint.

The minimalists want to RP in their own little space cadet universe, where even Imperial stronghold worlds haven't a stormtrooper in sight, and they can walk into Imperial Palace, tell the Emperor he hasn't the slightest idea how to regulate a shizzle, and walk off. Not gonna happen.

It's fleets today, it'll be armies tomorrow. If you think that there is someone who won't raise a fuss about an 80-million man army razing his home planet, you're kidding yourself.

Newsflash-most planets do have the capability to field 100 warships and 100 million well-equipped soldiers.

Fleet audits I can handle. Caps I can handle. One thing I cannot do is stand back while Garm Bel Iblis degenerates us all into "Jdei i chaleng yo!"-spouting anarchists. Because like it or not, the end result of countless fleet rule restructuring is an en masse forceful reversion to hand to hand combat.

[Kyle Deshere]

I can understand how some people would dislike RPing in fleet role play, it's understandable, it's their choice. But to say that fleet RP is downright wrong and because a few dumbasses don't like it that is just prejudice. What makes your role play so much better than mine? Maybe I despise YOUR Role play, should we get rule caps and bans on that? No, we want to RP how we RP.

Now to get some serious looks into it...point out ONE Star Wars movie or book where military power was not mentioned. Hmm? I'm waiting. Star Wars was a galaxy of fleets and armies torn by war as stated in the opening of EVERY movie. "It is a time of Galactic Civil War....."

Quite obviously war is going to happen and just because some pansies down on a planet lightsaber dueling don't like it doesn't mean it should be enforced. I have no issues with side by side role playing...but this happens at The Rebel Faction too....do NOT discriminate Fleet Role Plays because they effect what happens to you. Does the US get discriminated because the workers in a factory don't want the military to go bomb Afghanistan? Maybe some do, but the majority kicks backs and let's it happen.

I could go on for hours about this, but I just joined and I don't want to tarnish my rep, lol. Just know I HATE it when people try to say fleet RP is insignificant because quite frankly...I can point out PLENTY of people who say your kind is just as insignificant, we just don't bitch about it.

[Sumor Rayial]

Although ... you do have the Shipyards sub-forum already. Could you add an OOC board in there? It'd be nice and out of the way then.

I suggested it in my original post.


quote:
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RP-political correctness at its worst, considering there hasn't been a major fleet battle in 430 days or so.
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No, it's a statement that he believes the spectre of fleets generally hangs over the forums and it's not a plesant spectre.


Right there is part of the reason I suggested this. Vis is right, but people not only don't give a f*ck about us IC, the do so OOC too, and they're usually a lot more vocal about it OOC.

The point of having a sub-forum for fleets is so that we can be away from all that hate fleets and their petty comments every time we try and get something organized. I find it simply amazing that every time there is a significant thread about GOOD ideas nothing ever comes of it. Usually it's because the thread either gets buried or people who seemingly hate fleet come in and make their thoughts known and the idea gets trashed.

Lately we have actually been working well when it comes to the fleet sub culture on the boards. It's something that I don't know has ever been seen when it comes to us talking about things meaningful. Yet we still have the same problem. Basically, we're hated. Over the almost 2 years that I have been here, of which almost all of it has been devoted to fleets in some fashion I have seen the continued growth and hatred of our sub-culture. I've had hundreds of ideas about what could be good for fleets, but I don't post them. Why? Cause it's pointless to post them when all that we ever seem to get is people who don't like fleets putting their two cents in anyway. Right now I have a couple ideas about fleets, I haven't posted them in the current thread cause they don't belong, and I haven't posted them period because they don't deserve the disrespect that fleet threads are usually given when a new batch of them appear.

This isn't about volume of fleet threads, cause if we all could be left alone so that we can work out our problems then I'd bet that you'd see a pretty large increase in that area. No this idea was born out of respect, or lack of it.

Fleet RPs are treated like the bastard child that noone wants. Well there are those that enjoy fleet. If we can't be respected in the open OOC, then give us our own OOC forum where we can discuss things between ourselves without those that have no interest interfering.

[Darth Viscera]

Hear hear!!

[Daegal Murdoch]

I had a long post written, but I decided against it. All I am going to say is that I agree with Sums and Vis.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Viscera, did you even read my post?

Don't frigging whine about how you have a right to exist, because that is not what I was saying. Read it again. I'll even sum it up for you.

A lot of players detest fleets and what they have come to stand for. Therefore, enough bull**** and make them enjoyable and acceptible AND EVEN ATTRACTIVE (cause they sure as hell aint right now), insead of being the SWForums version of the retard som we hide in the attic, like what is clearly being seriously suggested now!

[Adm Garm Bel Iblis]

Sums is right. As long as this OOC forum is part of the already-existing Shipyards sub-forum, it won't clutter up the board. Ask Nup.

As for the rest, well ... I agree with Marcus. But keeping track of assets and that kind of thing is something the other fleet players seem to enjoy. So I'm trying to work within the system.

RP political corectness? What does that even mean?

The reason for rules, caps, and bans is because without them ... we had ludicrous amounts of ships and ridiculous superweapons blowing each other up and making life hell for the RP community AT LARGE ... not just for a few whiners ... but for everyone who was forced to cope with it. They dominated the boards.

That was then ... this is now. I'm hoping that we can work something out so that fleet stops being a 4-letter word.

[Sumor Rayial]

A lot of players detest fleets and what they have come to stand for. Therefore, enough bull**** and make them enjoyable and acceptible AND EVEN ATTRACTIVE (cause they sure as hell aint right now), insead of being the SWForums version of the retard som we hide in the attic, like what is clearly being seriously suggested now!

That's the point. We're trying. But when something comes up we get stupid posts from people that aren't even related to fleets saying they hate fleets. That's fine and all but why do they constantly have to post it in threads where we are trying to work things out?

Yes, things used to be out of hand. But personally I think that the tides have started to change for the better. I don't know about Vis but when I first started, I was all about bigger is better, I know better than that from my study of military tactics and history, but that's still how I thought. So did a lot of others.

Look I don't think the idea to build tons of SL weilding ships was a planned thing. I think it was one that spawned out of need. One ship suddenly shows up with a SL in a thread, and then another group says "oh sh*t, we need one of those to fight the one they got" and it just kept going until ever ship that was sent into battle was SL equipped. It's a beast that was once a terror on us all, and produced some pretty awful RPing, but it's gone.

I look at the cap in the same way. Right now it looks like a something that is going to screw us all over and make fleet RP no fun or whatever (okay it doesn't to me but I'm making a point). In 2 months we'll all look at it and say "why the hell did we need all those ships again?" Sometimes when things start real stupid like, like they did when fleets first started, you need to back engineer the rules until you don't even need the rules anymore.

Everybody wants fleet RPs to magically change into things where common sense is the only thing that is needed, and fleets are RP tools again. Then give us the chance and the time to make the right changes, because so far we haven't been given either.

All I'm asking for this is for a forum where we can discuss things. I don't know how hard it would be for one of the Admins to add a forum, but I'm guessing it wouldn't be very hard (I could be wrong don't know vB), if people don't like it, they don't have to go look there. But give us a spot where we can all talk about problems, throw out ideas and so forth.

[TheHolo.Net]

I’m starting to lean towards going ahead and creating the Fleet OOC forum, merely to make life somewhat simpler for all. Simpler for the posters who don’t want any part of them, making such discussions as this easier to avoid since they won’t have to see Fleet discussions here, and easier for the fleet people so that they can more easily locate the OOC topics that have a bearing on their aspect of roleplaying. I think it would also aid them in being able to constructively discuss topics of interest to them with fewer dissenting opinions from those who want no part of fleet RPing.

I do tend to agree that the volume of fleet discussions is not in itself enough to warrant another forum just for such purpose, but looking over the current shipyard forums we do have, it seems that about 50% of those forums don’t have enough traffic/posts to warrant their existence as it is. So why not have another that may actually see regular usage when compared to some of those I just mentioned?

And BTW: Stop with the swearing! Everyone who is doing it. There is no need to swear at all, whether is be completely filtered or constructively edited so that it bypassess the filters. Swearing is a violation of the General FAQ and can result in banning.

[Alec Lafeyette]

It's about time someone has spoken up. Some people need to realize that there are no more "Itala's" and "Thrawn's" running around who don't care at all about fairness, only about their own power. People have changed and respected the rules, and have come to realize that bigger isn't better. Some aren't even giving us a chance. You don't see the US Army going around using the US Navy just as their tool. There are thousands of miles of water between seperate land forms on this planet, and how else do you think troops get around? What other way do you expect helpless troops to get air support from a nearby aircraft carrier with a squad of F-18s ready to go? The same goes for this universe. Ninety percent of everything is space. It's called Star Wars, not Planet Wars.

In fact, I don't even think that fleets and armies should be thought of seperately or split apart into two arguing factions. Instead we need to learn to live together and to work off of eachother. With no navy the army couldn't exist, and vice-versa. We both need to give eachother a chance.