Golden Globes = BS

[Marcus Telcontar]

Sorry, had to get that out. More at 11.






motion picture categories:

best picture ~ drama: A Beautiful Mind
best picture ~ comedy / musical: Moulin Rouge!

best actor ~ drama: Russell Crowe for A Beautiful Mind
best actress ~ drama: Sissy Spacek for In the Bedroom

best actor ~ comedy / musical: Gene Hackman for The Royal Tenenbaums
best actress ~ comedy / musical: Nicole Kidman for Moulin Rouge!

best supporting actor: Jim Broadbent for Iris
best supporting actress: Jennifer Connelly for A Beautiful Mind

best director: Robert Altman for Gosford Park
best screenplay: Akiva Goldsman for A Beautiful Mind
best original score: Craig Armstrong for Moulin Rouge!
best original song: "Until..." from Kate & Leopold

best foreign-language film: No Man's Land

Cecil B. DeMille award: Harrison Ford


television categories:

best drama series: Six Feet Under
best comedy series: Sex and the City
best miniseries / tv movie: Band of Brothers

best actor ~ drama: Keifer Sutherland for 24
best actress ~ drama: Jennifer Garner for Alias

best actor ~ comedy: Charlie Sheen for Spin City
best actress ~ comedy: Sarah Jessica Parker for Sex and the City

best actor ~ miniseries / tv movie: James Franco for James Dean
best actress ~ miniseries / tv movie: Judy Davis for Life with Judy Garland

best supporting actor: Stanley Tucci for Conspiracy
best supporting actress: Rachel Griffiths for Six Feet Under



You have go to be kidding me. Not a single one for LOTR!?!?!

[ReaperFett]

its about opinions. The winners were more popular than the rest.


Good to see two of my major probs with LOTR(the score and Enya) walked away globeless :)

[Marcus Telcontar]

MOULIN ROUGE HAD ALMOST NO ORIGINAL SCORE TO SPEAK OF!!!

[ReaperFett]

most of the songs within were written for

[JMK]

Do fantasy films ever do well?

[Marcus Telcontar]

It deserved to win SOMETHING.

[Figrin D'an]

It is all about opinions, although saying that the winners were more popular that the other is... well... skewed at best.

I did think it was interesting that, when the nominees for Best Film - Drama were being annouced, that 'Fellowship' got the largest applause. It seemed to be the clear audience favorite.

The Golden Globes are fairly "important" awards, but the big ones are the Oscars. The front runners for the Best Picture Oscar seem to be 'A Beautiful Mind' and 'The Fellowship of the Ring.'

I saw 'A Beautiful Mind' a few days ago. It's a good film, and I can see why it is a contender for major awards, though it is, at its core, a stage for Russell Crowe. The film is built around Crowe, and it is rather obvious that everything around him, while not entirely window-dressing, is geared to accentuate his performance. I got the feeling that, later the film, it was less about John Nash's story and more about Russell Crowe's acting ability. That's not really a bad thing, entirely, but it does make my choice for 'Best Film' between it and 'Fellowship' much easier.

I really didn't expect 'Fellowship' to win for Score, Song, or Director (although Jackson completely deserves it). I was a bit disappointed about the Best Picture, but not really surprised that it went to 'A Beautiful Mind.'

[Jedi Master Carr]

I was more surprised that Russell Crowe won over Denzel, I still think Denzell will walk away with the Oscar. LOTR still has a chance at the oscars, I can think of several popular films which did poorly at the Globes and came out on top at the Oscars, Silence of the Lambs and Braveheart. In 1996 Braveheart won best director but it did not win best picture, if you can believe it Sense and Sensibility won it. In 1992 Bugsy won best picture, and Silence of the Lambs only won one award Best actress as we know Silence of the Lambs swept the Ocars that year. Unforgiven also didn't win best Picture in 93 but it did win two awards.

Another thing to consider is that this race is wide open and there is no favorite, A Beautiful Mind has one win, Mulhoulhand Drive has one, the same with the FOTR, Moulin Rouge and In the Bedroom, actually even Black Hawk Down has chance at this point. With the race so wide open like it was in 92 and 96 FOTR has a chance. I also see it much like Braveheart a film that is epic in scale.

[CMJ]

I was THRILLED that BEAUTIFUL MIND won. Out of the films nominated it was my clear favorite(okay I have yet to see all of them...I'm working on it). I know I'm in the minority on the board, but IMHO it's leaps and bounds better than FOTR.

Other thoughts....

Best Supprting Actor was a surprise. Broadbent was not expected to win this category...his chances at Oscar have improved dramatically.

Best Screenplay....MEMENTO had won basically every previous award for this category. Granted the Globes don't seperate adapted and original like most groups do...but still...I was surprised.

Best Director for Altman seems to be gaining steam as a "life time" honor. He's a respected director who's never won..and since he's in his mid 70's(though he still looked good) this might be his last shot. I wasn't impressed with GOSFORD PARK in the least, but he did have to manage a MASSIVE cast. I believe there were over 30 speaking roles. He would not be one of my forst 10 choices for the award, but I really can't complain too loudly.

A BEAUTIFUL MIND is now the clear frontrunner bor the Academy.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Actually I still think its up for grabs because the Oscars and the Globes haven't always agreed, any of the three contenders (LOTR, A beautiful Mind, and Moulin Rouge) could win because they each have won at least one major award at some award show this year. Still LOTR could win more awards then anybody else because of all the technical stuff, (there are about 6 or 7 they could easily win) and still not win best picture.

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by Marcus Q'Dunn
You have go to be kidding me. Not a single one for LOTR!?!?!

It got what it deserved. :)

[Darth23]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr:
Still LOTR could win more awards then anybody else because of all the technical stuff, (there are about 6 or 7 they could easily win) and still not win best picture.


IS you think the Academy is going to do a "Star Wars" with FOTR?

[Marcus Telcontar]

Oh yeah, tell me Jackson at the least didnt deserve Best Director. What he did in converting LOTR to the screen, the visuals, the way the cast worked together, there is no way any director did better. It was an absolute achievement, much better than anything else this year.

And we have only seen 1/3rd of the movie so far. To realise the exact scale we will need to see the next two movies, then it will be perfectly clear just what Jackson has done if it isnt already.

He better win Best Director somewhere along the line. This truly blows AND sucks because I could with some justification claim Jackson was snubbed this year

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by Marcus Q'Dunn
And we have only seen 1/3rd of the movie so far. To realise the exact scale we will need to see the next two movies, then it will be perfectly clear just what Jackson has done if it isnt already.

So what, a movie should stand all by itself, not just as part of a series.

[JonathanLB]

Do you read or are books forbidden in your country?!

Go read FOTR. The film ends just as the book does, absolutely no differently and it is one of the most popular books in the history of the entire world, except for the Bible. It's also one of the best.

LOTR is the greatest series of fantasy books ever written and the greatest literary work of the 20th century. Tolkien is a master.

LOTR deserved to win in every category for which it was nominated. Even further, it has a much better chance at the Oscars because the Oscars look for more epic films with directors who clearly showed that they are capable of triumphing against amazing odds as Jackson has done in converting the greatest books around to one of the greatest movies around, or at least the best film of the year.

"it's leaps and bounds better than FOTR."

Yeah, in YOUR DREAMS it is much better, haha. Back here in the good 'ol Milky Way, the movie stinks of BS and sucks hard. But keep on dreaming, it's good for you. I enjoy dreaming too, but only when I'm asleep ;)

I think LOTR is the front-runner for best picture, and by that I mean the only best picture that matters, the Oscar. The Globes have always been just an interesting footnote, bu the main show is the Oscars.

And, by the way, if I am wrong then so be it too because that only helps my cause. LOL, A Beautiful Mind is a DreamWorks co-production. If it wins, that's the third straight Oscar for DreamWorks and makes my non-fiction book on the company seem even more prescient. So either way, it would be great for me in one way or another, just as long as they don't award Mulholland Drive or Spy Kids the best picture ;)

Very few critics did not absolutely adore LOTR and I think when it comes down to it, the large, large voting academy will chose FOTR over any competing films. I can still see Crowe winning best actor, though (and he did a very good job and I really like him, so that would be fine), it would be a great way of saying, "Yes, we liked A Beautiful Mind for what it was: Russell Crowe," but then saying, "And yes, the best movie was OBVIOUSLY Fellowship of the Ring."

I've hardly ever seen a year where the best picture should be so obvious but is apparently so perplexing. There were a number of good to very good films in 2001, but nothing like FOTR. I loved A.I. and would say it is worthy, but it's clearly not a movie that appealed to most people nor did it amaze critics, so it's not got a snowball's chance in hell of winning anything significant. As for Memento, the third greatest of the year, it is not epic. That is enough said on that. It's a good film but it is not elegant, it is not beautiful, it is not an FOTR. It's just a great independent movie. No way, no how, never will a low budget movie be able to compete with the breathless visuals in a film like The Matrix, the Star Wars Saga, Lord of the Rings, or any other beautiful films that also happen to have wonderful plots and great characters.

Memento can only stand as the film with possibly the best screenplay (and it was great), but it cannot stand next to films that are not even in its class. Memento is like the best minor league player trying to compete in the majors; while he may be very good, he certainly is not as good as the best major leaguers.

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by JonathanLB
Do you read or are books forbidden in your country?!

Go read FOTR. The film ends just as the book does, absolutely no differently and it is one of the most popular books in the history of the entire world, except for the Bible. It's also one of the best.

I was merely replying to Marcus Q'Dunn's statement in general, not even really with LOTR in mind.


LOTR deserved to win in every category for which it was nominated.

Why? What, besides its stunning visuals, is so great about LOTR?


I think LOTR is the front-runner for best picture, and by that I mean the only best picture that matters, the Oscar.

Are you gonna WATCH the show? ;)


No way, no how, never will a low budget movie be able to compete with the breathless visuals in a film like The Matrix, the Star Wars Saga, Lord of the Rings, or any other beautiful films that also happen to have wonderful plots and great characters.

If they do have the latter, yes, but otherwise visuals are just one of the criteria.

Or are visuals a leading criteria in your opinion?

[ReaperFett]

never will a low budget movie be able to compete with the breathless visuals in a film like The Matrix
They were overrated

[CMJ]

Well P. Jackson certainly got FOTR made, which is impressive Marcus, but there's no way IMHO he deseverd Best Direcor. I would've voted for Spielberg. :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Darth, what did you mean by FOTR doing a SW? As for the other arguments it doesn't matter I firmly believe that it will sweep most of the techinical awards these are the ones it could win
Art Direction
Makeup
Costuming
Visual Effects
Sound
Sound Effects
Cinemaphatography
Editing
I think it will win 6 of those 8 at least (it could concievely win all 8) I don't see any movie winning more than 4. Denzel will win best Actor (he should have won at the Globes I doubt the Oscars will give Crowe the award twice) some surprise actress will win best supporting actress (it almost always happens) Best director will go to Altman, I bet and then best picture will be one by one of the three films I mentioned which means FOTR will still win the night actually by winning the most awards.

[CMJ]

It might win the night...but there have been other Best Pic winners that won very few awards, so BEAUTIFUL MIND(if it won like 4 and FOTR won 7) wouldn't have any astericks next to it's name. :P

[ReturnOfTheCB]

Ok, I think Russell Crowe's performance was good, but just that...I was almost able to put aside the fact that he seems like one of the last actors in Hollywood you would cast to play the introverted/troubled genius type...don't get me wrong, I loved the movie, I just don't think it compares to FOTR...I would set it second at best...though Russell Crowe's performance was good, I have to say that the one thing that got me was his accent...I didn't think it was done very well, and there were times it stood out so much that it was fake it almost detracted from the movie...but lets face it, there are certain films made specifically to kiss the critics ass, and more often than not they succeed...now some of them end up being good, like Moulin Rouge and A Beautiful Mind, but even then they are highly overrated, just for the fact that like most people, critics loved being catered too, and they love having to remove films/directors from their ass before they can vote on them. With that said, I will be surprised if FOTR wins any Oscars, because it wasn't designed with that in mind, for the same reason that Star Wars rarely gets what it deserves at the awards. IMO, it's because film critics are like a good majority of literary critics...they think they are better than everyone else, so they vote for the more "intellectual" and "artistic" (of course, the quotes mean that this is debatable) works, which is why you end up with a good deal of bull**** in the world of films and literature...every now and then a good film/book will slip through the cracks, but it's rare. So I say **** the critics :D And I still will even if FOTR wins...

[Jedi Master Carr]

Still I have one question, why do films about troubled mentally ill people or people with someother physical difficultly always get awards? It just seems silly to me to have to make movie about somebody with Down Syndrome or this case Scizophrina(sp) just to win an Oscar. It reminds me of the movie Bowfinger when Eddie Murphy's character, Kit Ramsey wants to get an Oscar role and he tells his agent (I cheated and found the quote on IMdb:P)

"White boys always get the Oscar. It's a known fact. Did I ever get a nomination? No! You know why? Cause I hadn't played any of them slave roles, and get my ass whipped. That's how you get the nomination. A black dude who plays a slave that gets his ass whipped gets the nomination, a white guy who plays an idiot gets the Oscar. That's what I need, I need to play a retarded slave, then I'll get the Oscar."

[CMJ]

Movies made to kiss critic's asses?? LOL..if you know Ron Howard you'd know he's not that type of guy.

Not only that..but "Academy bait" which is what you are claiming always gets critcs to be praiseful, more often than not backfires. I could come up with MANY examples of this.

[Jedieb]

I just tuned in to see Ford's acceptance speech. I thought the long version was MUCH better than the short version.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Why? What, besides its stunning visuals, is so great about LOTR?


Hehehehe. * Cracks knuckles* I'll answer this


The costume design.

The music.

The CG.

The realisation of Tolkein onto the screen, up to now thought to be impossible

Capturing the spirit of the books so well

Some great acting - Ian Mckelland for one, Elija Wood for another.

Incredible detail. The third time round I was really beginning to notice the insane detail work put in. These guys must have been obsessed.

The horse chase.

Moria.

Isengard.

Then combining and creating a movie that not only stands out, but stands on it's own. If the book did not exist, FOTR would still be hailed.

THERE'S GOING TO BE TWO MORE!!!

Want me to go on, cause I can. Sure it's a bloody long movie, but if other movies were this good, then I'll be happy to sit there.



As for A Beautiful Mind - it smells of a movie just created to be a Crowe Oscar vehicle, no more. Crowe is a damn good actor and I feel that if he's that good, then so be it. I dont think however Beautiful Mind should win. A movie is not one dimension, it's a sum of the whole. ABM seems to me only good for one factor - Crowe. FOTR is great because its just got so much more.

[ReaperFett]

most of them wouldnt get the best film Oscar though :)

[Darth23]

"Darth, what did you mean by FOTR doing a SW? "

I mena do you think the Academy will give FOTR some technical wins and maybe some 'important' nominations (picture, director) but no wins there.

[Darth23]

I think that since Gladiator won last year, FOTR won't win this year. Beautiful Mind, Royal Tannenbaums, that Bedroom movie or something more 'critically acceptible' will take it this year.

[ReaperFett]

goooooooooo Tomb Raider! :)


Should be seeing Black Hawk Down tommorow. Finally, I hit the third film in this Oscar year :)

[CMJ]

Jon...FOTR is still the frontunner? Please explain....

May I say you have no idea what you are talking about. Sure FOTR could still wim..but there's no doubt that BM is the frontrunner. In the previous 58 years of the Globes 41 films that won Best Pic(either Musical/Comedy or Drama) have won. Thats a 71% winning percentage...not unbeatable...but certainly formidable. MR has a chance too...but the lions share of that 41 victories is from the drama category(I think musical/Comedies have gone on to win like 6-7 times).

[Marcus Telcontar]

Despite my opinion the FOTR was the best damn moive this year..... I have to agree, it's highly unlikely to win any of the big awards.

It's just not that type of movie. Fantasy, Sci-Fi and comedy just dont win awards which at times they could richly deserve. Whatever the opinion about A Beautiful Mind (And I'm adament it will win based on one truly stand out performance), it is the type of movie the Acadamy awards.

FOTR also sufferes by being clearly a work in progress. I think TTT will also be snubbed in 2003 - but look out in 2004. If Jackson has not won Best Director by then (given the remaining two movies are up to FOTR type levels), then there will be a lynching.

Maybe not this year, or next.... but in 2004. That will be the year of LOTR for the big Oscars of Best Director and Best movie I think.

[Jedieb]

FOTR also sufferes by being clearly a work in progress. I think TTT will also be snubbed in 2003 - but look out in 2004. If Jackson has not won Best Director by then (given the remaining two movies are up to FOTR type levels), then there will be a lynching.

Maybe not this year, or next.... but in 2004. That will be the year of LOTR for the big Oscars of Best Director and Best movie I think.

This isn't ANY kind of a slam on FOTR, but if it doesn't win any of those Oscars this year, it NEVER will. The only sequel to ever win a best pic Oscar was Godfather 2. Godfather 1 also won the award. If the first in the series gets snubbed then you can expect the following movies to get bypassed in the Best Pic and Director awards as well. I can see a scenario in which Tolkien sequels win technical awards that FOTR lose out on, but that's about it. The Academy traditionally doesn't have a favorable opinion of sequels, at least not in the best Director or Picture categories.

As for the Oscar frontrunner, that clearly has to be ABM. After its performance at the Globes it's the leading candidate. This doesn't mean it's a lock, but it CERTAINLY is the frontrunner. CMJ's numbers are ample proof of that.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Maybe it is the front runner but I think FOTR has a chance as I pointed out neither Silence of the Lambs (how did Bugsy win???) or Braveheart won best picture in the Globes so anything is possible. I hope it wins but if wins the night I will still be happy. And I guess your right Darth, it might do a Star wars and win all the technical stuff and not the big awards. What movie beat Star Wars out Annie Hall? Think about this way in 30 years which movie will more be remember LOTR or Beautiful Mind, I am thinking it will be the former like Annie Hall has long since been forgotten and Star Wars is a classic.

[Jedieb]

I wouldn't say that Annie Hall has been forgotton. It's one of the child molestor's better movies and he's got a long list of critical successes, and a few box office successes as well. Now it certainly hasn't had the impact of SW, but Annie Hall still gets mentioned whenever the pervert's name gets brought up.

I would be happy to see a fantasy film like FOTR win the Oscar. The odds may be against it, but it would be a pleasant surprise. That's probably the movie I'll be rooting for.

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL Jedieb that was terrific, but seriously Woody Allen has really been disgraced (by his own doing) much like OJ Simpson will never again be looked at like he was before he murdered his wife and got away with it. In that way I think Annie Hall will end up being forgotten and the same hopefully with Woody Allen. Actually I have never like his films to me they are not funny.

[Jedieb]

I've liked some of his films. I still laugh every time I see him step into the Orgasmatron. His Bogart film (The title escapes me right now but I think it's got a Sam in there somewhere), starring Tony Roberts, Diane Keation, and a great Bogart impersonator is very funny. However, I find him to be an immoral piece of filth. I rarely mention the degenerate child molestor by name and insult him whenever I find myself forced to praise his work.

[Marcus Telcontar]

When I found out Annie Hall won best movie in 78 (cause I had no idea until a year ago, only knew ANH was robbed), I went out and watched it.

I watched 20 mniutes. I just couldnt stand it. I could only think ""THAT beat ANH!?!".

I wonder if in 30 years time and if FOTR becomes a real classic and a cult like Star Wars has, if people will find out what beat FOTR. And think the same. It's quite possible.

I just dont think A Beautiful Mind will be thought of as a classic, nor will it age well. So, it may win the Oscars, but FOTR will win the hearts and minds in the end

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by Marcus Q'Dunn
Hehehehe. * Cracks knuckles* I'll answer this
The costume design.
The CG.
Incredible detail. The third time round I was really beginning to notice the insane detail work put in. These guys must have been obsessed.
The horse chase.
Moria.
Isengard.

Those are all visuals, so they don't count. :)


Some great acting - Ian Mckelland for one, Elija Wood for another.

Only the first did a great job indeed. The rest didn't impress me.

Anyway, I thought LOTR was a pretty well done movie, but I felt very distant from what was happening on the screen, hence I was not too impressed with it.

[JonathanLB]

Well CMJ, I say that it is still the front-runner because it HAS already taken best picture from other groups, uhh, try AFI for instance, and it is a more epic film than A Beautiful Mind. The Academy loves box office success and scorns failure (which is why a film like L.A. Confidential struggles, The Insider also, any movie that is perceived as a box office failure). Although they don't give a damn about the highest grossing movies of the year, they do care that their films are accepted both commercially and critically, normally.

When given the choice between Fellowship of the Ring and A Beautiful Mind, the obvious choice is still going to beat Fellowship for most of the voting members (and the body is much bigger than the Globes). The movie is much more epic in scale, it's superior on a technical level (and this is obviously not debatable), it has a series of great performances not just one, and it is more of a complete film as was already mentioned.

It's not a definite thing that FOTR is going to win Best Picture, it certainly could be A Beautiful Mind and as I said, if it is, then all the better for my personal work at least. In some way, I should probably root for A Beautiful Mind because it really does solidify my reason for writing a book on DreamWorks, but it would be idiotic of me to root for a film I didn't like only for personal reasons like that. I loved FOTR, so it has my support.

As was also said, screw the critics. The best movie of the year was FOTR. Period.

Majority opinion rules and the majority of people think it was the best movie of the year as do I, and what I think matters more than what anyone else thinks because a movie is not good to me for the reason others like it; it's good because I like it and that reason alone. So whatever the critics think and all of the rest of the idiots out there really doesn't matter. FOTR rules.

I wasn't that convinced, if you will remember, that FOTR was going to be any good. In fact, if you look on this forum from way back, I was very skeptical. It wasn't something I thought they were going to be able to pull off and I thought the adaptation of the book to film would be yet another hack job, but Jackson proved that he is every bit capable of an epic film and a wonderful translation of a great work of art.

"Are you gonna WATCH the show?"

No I am certainly not going to watch it. I vowed never to watch the Oscars again, nor did I turn on the Globes. I... do... not... CARE! Read my lips: award ceremonies are masturbation for the film industry. Are they important? Yes, but not to me. I couldn't care less. The best movies of the year are whatever *I* say are the best movies of the year; what everyone else says is just unnecessary information. It's interesting perhaps, but not important. I go to the movies to be entertained and in rare cases, inspired, not so that I can have some other jerkoff tell me what is a good movie and what isn't. I already know that for myself without asking anyone else, haha.

Ultimately, everyone brings with them their own set of values and opinions to a movie and because film is an art form like any other, it is most important what YOU think of a film, not what someone else thinks. My opinion of most movies cannot be changed all that much. They can move a little after several viewings. I imagine there are films that if someone really explained them to me in more detail, I could raise my rating from 3 stars to 3.5. Never from 3 to 4, though. I saw Snatch and gave it 3 stars. I saw it again a few times and it's a 3.5 star movie. I must have been tired the first time I saw it because it's quite a classic film among my friends and I now. We quote it a lot...

As for the Oscars, I would not watch even if they nominate Episode II next year for 15 awards. I would just be setting myself up for disappointment when they gave it like 2 awards or something, haha. I can always read about it the next day, right? What's the hurry?

Let's see, do I need the Academy to tell me that Attack of the Clones is going to be the best picture and have the best costume design, best special effects, best directing, best screenplay, best makeup, best sound, best sound effects editing, best cinematography, best editing, best score, and on and on? Absolutely not! It's Star Wars. I don't even have to see it to know that. It's just obvious. Yesterday, the sun rose. It also fell. Tomorrow, the sun will rise and it will fall too. It happens everyday. I have no reason to doubt that the fifth Star Wars film, just like the last four, will also be absolutely great. Until I see one that isn't (and there are only two left), then I will never doubt. I am surprised any fan would have any doubts. To me, it's not a matter of faith, it's just a matter of knowing. I KNOW for a fact without any doubt whatsoever that I am going to give Episode II a perfect rating and I am going to love it. I love Star Wars. It's just another chapter in a saga I love. Now what I don't know is whether or not it will be my favorite SW movie, my 2nd favorite, etc. That's still questionable. It could beat out TPM in my book, or it might not, but either way I don't care. I am just anxious to see the story unfold. I think the most understanding fans adapt a stoic attitude. Whatever the story contains is whatever it was supposed to contain (like a stoic would say whatever happens was meant to happen and is therefore good). It's Lucas's story and I love his storytelling skills, why would I want it to be anything but whatever Lucas wanted it to be?!

Eh, whatever. I don't need anyone to understand that because I'm the one who's going to walk out smiling every one of the 50 to 75 times I see AOTC next summer. Can't wait.

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by JonathanLB
No I am certainly not going to watch it. I vowed never to watch the Oscars again

Yup, and that's exactly what I was referring to. :)


what everyone else says is just unnecessary information.

Yep, that's you in a nutshell. :)

[Marcus Telcontar]

Those are all visuals, so they don't count.

Funny, isnt movies a ...... VISUAL.... medium? I say it counts one hell of a lot.


Now just because a movie doesnt "connect" does not mean it is bad or should be marked down. Typically there are "great" movies I dont like, yet when I watch them, I can acknowledge how good they are. Citizen Kane is one. It's simply one of the best, but it's not my kind of movie. I detest Titanic, yet I do have to admit, it has it's own greatness.... oddly, mainly visual and technical and detail. 2001 is truly and appalingly boring, yet its visually, technically and details wise brilliant. FOTR OTOH, is they type of movier I love and it has the type of incredible and intricate detail I love. Now, being steeped in Tolkein, it even more blew me away.

Now American Beauty is Just Plain ****. I have no idea how the hell that won anything.

Dutchy, you admit FOTR was pretty well done, even if you clearly didnt like it. That is the hallmark of a great movie - you cant honestly look at me in the eye and say it was bad, because quite clearly it is not. A Beautiful Mind, I am not sure that it's quality is undisputable. We'll see I guess.

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by Marcus Q'Dunn
Funny, isnt movies a ...... VISUAL.... medium? I say it counts one hell of a lot.

I asked to name things BESIDES its visuals, so then naming visuals doesn't count.


Now American Beauty is Just Plain ****. I have no idea how the hell that won anything.

AB is the perfect movie, IMHO.


Dutchy, you admit FOTR was pretty well done, even if you clearly didnt like it. That is the hallmark of a great movie - you cant honestly look at me in the eye and say it was bad, because quite clearly it is not. A Beautiful Mind, I am not sure that it's quality is undisputable. We'll see I guess.

I never said it is a bad movie. I'd give it a 70/100 grade. It was well done, but it's just not my kinda movie. I basically just sat through it instead of enjoying it. There were some nice scenes, though.

[ReaperFett]

Funny, isnt movies a ...... VISUAL.... medium? I say it counts one hell of a lot.

So how did Schindler's List win? OR SHakespeare in Love? :)













My tip for 2003's Oscars is Minority Report

[Jedieb]

Dutchy you crack me up. :lol


quote:Funny, isnt movies a ...... VISUAL.... medium? I say it counts one hell of a lot.

So how did Schindler's List win? OR SHakespeare in Love?

I'd say both of those films were visually appealing. Shakespeare had some great costumes and set pieces. SL was a well shot B & W movie, which isn't an easy thing to do. But I get your point, visuals aren't everything. However, in a medium like film they are important.

I think we're seeing a case of some people being blown away by a movie and others not being greatly impressed because the movie doesn't "connect" with them. Nothing is universal. Some people can see SW and be totally unimpressed and continue on with their business without taking much away from it. They may give it some merits, but not much more. Same thing here.

[CMJ]

Jon do you really want me to list the awards that have been handed out. Sure FOTR has won some...but there are MANY given out. You beat your chest and say the AFI win says FOTR is the frontunner. The AFI only recently bgan naming it's 10 best films of the year...and this was the 1st year it names a best picture winner. My point? It is a really unproven example.

Once again I'm not saying that FOTR won't win Best Picture, just that it's definitely not the frontrunner. I'd say BM has a 60% chance of winning and FOTR has a 15% of wonning(MR has about a 10% chance and the yet to be named other nominee's have about no chance...15% put together).

[Master Yoghurt]

Well, I am not one bit surprised LOTR did not win any awards. I was in fact somehow waiting for that to happen. You see, Hollywood is the very definition of a hypocritical, double standard, corrupt and dirty industry. Golden Globe & the Oscars are awards heavily influenced by frequency of stupid, biased and narrowminded against the stream critics who think they are or wants to be political correct and/or shameless studio/distributor/agents promotion events (IE: cocktail parties) were gifts and kind words are exchanged between the various parties and/or word of mouth and reputation in the industry.

Sorry New Line and Peter Jackson, you will probably receive some nominations, but I doubt you have the kind of power, respect or influence to win much awards. Being Fantasy and so action packed, LOTR is the wrong genre also. A movie has to be popular by a landslide to contradict the factors mentioned above. This one might be just that, and I would love to be wrong about my prediction this once, but to be honest, the sooner people realise what a joke that "pet each other on the shoulders" establishment the Academy Awards is, the better. It is a shame really.

Do I hate the Oscars? Oh, absolutely! Am I going to watch the show? Absolutely not. Well, perhaps. Just to laugh a bit of all the stupidity, glitter and glamour.

Oh, here is something I read on FOXNews that gave me chuckle:



"The big surprises of the night: that Lord of the Rings was completely shut out of the winning. This movie was the odds-on favorite, and certainly a perfect Golden Globe winner if ever there was one. But a lot of people I spoke to said that the movie's made "too much money" — how do you like that! — and that the Hollywood Foreign Press (which has suddenly become the bastion of respectability after years of being loony) wanted something more artistic. Thus, their choice of A Beautiful Mind."

So now they are going to pretend to be less commercial and more artistic? Riiiight. This is not the Cannes Film Festival. In other words, not an award where low budget movies and niche market are actually taken into concideration, no, no, this is the annual Hollywood multi billion dollar industry self promotion. To much money", eh? Send me a Titanic. :D

[CMJ]

Oh puleeze.... TITANIC is a perfect example that making a boatload of money(forgive the pun) makes no difference. Let's see...SHAKEASPEARE IN LOVE(though not liked by everyone on this board) was rather large hit, grossing over 100M. AMERICAN BEAUTY did VERY well...a did GLADIATOR. In fact the Academy RARELY gived Best Picture to a film NO ONE has seen. In fact I can't think of the last time a film that wasn't a success won Best Picture.....

You know why FOTR will probably not win Best Picture? Because many people didn't think it was the best...plain and simple. Your conspiracy theories are lunacy.

[Jedieb]

The Oscars don't pick the best films of the year. They pick the films they LIKE the best. Some years you'll agree with them, some you won't. No matter the year, you'll never agree with EVERY statue the Academy hands out. Lots of things can factor into a strong film getting snubbed. It may have been released early in the year, it and another strong contendor may split the vote and allow a weaker film to slip through, etc. I think FOTR has a lot going against it. But who cares? Don't like the Oscars, then don't watch 'em. I thought that Shakespeare in Love was a horrendous choice, but I'll still tune in every once in awhile to see who wins. It's really not that big of a deal. Let's be honest, the worst thing the Oscars ever did was let Anne Riekin sing Against All Odds instead of Phil Collins. For that, someone deserves to die! >D

[Master Yoghurt]

Originally posted by CMJ
Let's see...SHAKEASPEARE IN LOVE(though not liked by everyone on this board) was rather large hit, grossing over 100M. AMERICAN BEAUTY did VERY well...a did GLADIATOR. In fact the Academy RARELY gived Best Picture to a film NO ONE has seen. In fact I can't think of the last time a film that wasn't a success won Best Picture..... Exactly. Which proves my point whoever said LOTR makes too much money to get any award is either suffering from amnesia or is talking double standards (probably the latter).



Oh puleeze.... TITANIC is a perfect example that making a boatload of money(forgive the pun) makes no difference. Of course it makes a difference. Any movie not doing well on box office is not likely to be nominated at all. Thus my reference to Cannes as an antithesis, although even that award is rather Hollywood influenced and hype driven now. IMO, that is one good argument not to take Academy Awards or Golden Globe very seriously.




You know why FOTR will probably not win Best Picture? Because many people didn't think it was the best...plain and simple. It would be interesting to see what you mean by "many people"? It appears to me, LOTR happens to be liked by an even wider range of people as well as critics than is the case with BM. That is not saying BM is a bad movie or disliked in general, far from it. I am well aware of its qualities.



Your conspiracy theories are lunacy. LOL. You may call it whatever you like. I call it less naive. I don't feel like I have to convince myself or others the earth is round or anything, I just accept the BS and move on (IE: spend my time doing something else than watch or even care about the Oscars). :)

[CMJ]

Naive huh? I'm much like Jedieb..I won't always agree with them, but they are FUN to talk about. In film school even if we didn't agree on ONE choice we'd all sit around and talk about them. Thats why they're great. Do I agree with them all the time? Hell no... I'm sure even if I get to a member of the Academy some day(I hope so, since that will mean I'm "respected" in this industry) the things I vote for won't always win. Nonetheless I follow them like I follow Boxoffice number...like I follow sports....it's just FUN to me.

[Darth23]

I've liked some of his films. I still laugh every time I see him step into the Orgasmatron. His Bogart film (The title escapes me right now but I think it's got a Sam in there somewhere), starring Tony Roberts, Diane Keation, and a great Bogart impersonator is very funny. However, I find him to be an immoral piece of filth. I rarely mention the degenerate child molestor by name and insult him whenever I find myself forced to praise his work.


Play it Again Sam.


[extremely long partially completed Woody Allen post deleted]

I liked Annie Hall a lot.

[Master Yoghurt]

CMJ: Oh, I did not mean naive aimed at anyone specifically or in a negative way. I am sure you would be a good representative for the Academy. It is also good to hear you find the event fun. Actually, I also used to find Academy Awards fun.

However, I sadly can't say the same now due to some decisions over the years that lead me to believe that a substantial portion of the members either do not give their honest opinion or are simply not doing their job properly.

The other thing which is a bit of a concern, I have seen interviews of actors and industry analysts stating a significant amount of promotion aimed at the Academy members is needed to do well. That is another reason I feel inclined to believe the members independence is overrated, because in my opinion, a good critic should decide what movie is the better in or leaving the theater, not letting him/herself being influenced by talking to the actors, directors, producers etc.

Sorry if I sound cynical. If you like the GB and the AA, good for you. Good luck on becoming member of the Academy one day. :)

[CMJ]

Thanks Master Y...sorry you got my daner up a bit. I'm usually pretty laid back. :) Anyways, it'd be great if someday I could get recognized for something I did..I dream one day it might be so.

[ReturnOfTheCB]

I have even less belief in the Golden Globes than I did before...I just heard "Until" by Sting, that won Best Song...I am a big Sting fan, but I do not think that song is very good at all...definitely not one of his better works...it's alright, but not "Best Song" quality...

[Jedieb]

Thanks Darth23, I thought that was the title but I just wasn't sure. It's a great "I love movies" kind of movie. That child molestor, he can make me laugh. Plus, I love Bogey so that's a movie I enjoy watching whenever I happen to stumble upon it on cable.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Still there has been a few films which weren't huge successes that one Best Picture: The English Patient and The Last Emperor, neither made a 100 million and both are incredibly boring movies, I would rather watch C-Span than watch one of those movies. Sure, I don't despise the Oscars but I don't agree with them all the time. My problem is a lot of them like films that I just don't find very interesting.

[CMJ]

ENGLISH PATIENT did do well though. It didn't gross 100M or anything, but it was a success. LAST EMPEROR was before I started following BO so I'm not sure how it did finacially. :P

I too didn't care for ENGLISH PATIENT. :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

According to Box office Mojo the Last Emperor made 43 million dollars in 1987, it was the 25 most successful film. That year looked pretty bad though, the #1 movie was 3 Men and a baby and it only made about 167 million, only 4 films made a 100 million, that is not very good. I'd say Last Emperor was no box office success, if they went by Money they should have given it to the Untoucheables or Good Morning Vietnam, but they obvisoly saw something in that the Last Emperor that 90% of America did not see.

[CMJ]

I'm just estimating...43M back in '87 would be about what...60something million. For a film that different, I wouldn't say thats bad. I haven't seen it in years but i seem to remember liking it somewhat at an earlier age. I might rewatch it sometime.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I re looked at it here is the rest of the list if anybody is interested

1 Three Men & a Baby Dis. $167,780,960
2 Fatal Attraction Par. $156,645,693
3 Beverly Hills Cop II Par. $153,665,036
4 Good Morning, Vietnam Dis. $123,922,370
5 Moonstruck MGM $80,640,528
6 The Untouchables Par. $76,269,454
7 The Secret of My Success Uni. $67,939,445
8 Stakeout Dis. $65,673,233
9 Lethal Weapon WB $65,192,350
10 Dirty Dancing Vestron $63,892,689
11 The Witches of Eastwick WB $63,749,955
12 Predator Fox $59,735,548
13 Throw Mama From the Train Orion $57,695,259
14 Dragnet Uni. $57,623,200
15 La Bamba Col. $54,200,000
16 Robocop Orion $53,424,681
17 Outrageous Fortune Dis. $52,864,741
18 The Living Daylights MGM $51,185,897
19 Eddie Murphy: Raw Par. $50,504,655
20 Planes, Trains & Automobiles Par. $49,530,280
21 Broadcast News Fox $49,154,886
22 Snow White & the Seven Dwarves (Re-issue) Dis. 46,594,212
23 Full Metal Jacket WB $46,341,085
24 A Nightmare on Elm Street III: Dream Warriors NL 44,793,222
25 The Last Emperor Col. $43,984,230
If you want to see the rest here it is
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/y87.html

The reason that I posted it is a lot of movies came out that year that I was suprised about their figures. Lethal Weapon is the first one I noticed. I guess it became bigger on Video because the sequel made about 200 million and the last two both made over 150. Robocop is a shock, I can't believe that it got beat out by Dragnet, Throw Mommy from the Train and that poc Witches of Eastwick. Concidering the first film only did 53 million why did they do a sequel? I know inflation would make it seem bigger but I guessing it would add 30 million to it so its an 80 million dollar film with a 60 million dollar budget (I'm guessing there), I'm just surprised that it did so poorly I thought it was a huge hit.
Also go further down the list The Princess Bride only made 27 million, man and it is considered a great film now, I guess its become a cult film over the years and also Innerspace is below that at 25 million. I remember that film, that must have been one of Spielberg's first bombs.

[CMJ]

I think the budget for the 1st Lethal Weapon was probably more like 40M, if not lower. I remember when Jurassic Park came out it had a HUGE budgte(some 63M). It was one of the largest ever. Wow, how things change. :P

[Jedi Master Carr]

Lethal Weapon really didn't do that well then, I guess the movie caught on video. If I am not mistaken wasn't 87 one of those years when the studios were losing a lot of money? And that people weren't going? It would seem to me that movies like Princess Bride, Lethal Weapon, Robocop and Predator would do a lot better today then they did then (especially judging by recent action films and sci-fi films).

[ReaperFett]

hardly anyone saw the Shawshank Redemption at Cinema. Now, it is regarded as one of the best ever. Gross doesnt mean Great

[JonathanLB]

"Now just because a movie doesnt "connect" does not mean it is bad or should be marked down. Typically there are "great" movies I dont like, yet when I watch them, I can acknowledge how good they are. Citizen Kane is one. It's simply one of the best, but it's not my kind of movie. I detest Titanic, yet I do have to admit, it has it's own greatness.... oddly, mainly visual and technical and detail. 2001 is truly and appalingly boring, yet its visually, technically and details wise brilliant. FOTR OTOH, is they type of movier I love and it has the type of incredible and intricate detail I love. Now, being steeped in Tolkein, it even more blew me away.

Now American Beauty is Just Plain ****. I have no idea how the hell that won anything."

Dang, I like this guy! You have good taste in movies man, very good taste. :)

Next time I want to know what is a good film, I'm asking you first. I'm sure not asking Dutchy. No offense man but you have a woman's taste in film, so when I want to know the best chick flick I'll definitely ask you ;)

2001 is the most boring movie I have ever seen, honestly. Although, I do like HAL. He's cool, but the rest of that movie was trash. It's boring and idiotic and overly contemplative without making any sense whatsoever. Best sci-fi movie my @$$! Star Wars has nothing to worry about in that lame film. American Beauty is just complete trash, I have no idea how it won anything either, but whatever. My whole family hated it. I mean, hated it. Funny because my dad has just the opposite taste in movies I do generally, as in, he would usually like something like that.

By the way...

Annie WHAT?!

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by JonathanLB
I'm sure not asking Dutchy. No offense man but you have a woman's taste in film, so when I want to know the best chick flick I'll definitely ask you ;)

By the way...

Annie WHAT?!

LOL, your movie world is so small. :)

By the way...

Did you actually SEE American Beauty?

[Jedieb]

Those numbers for 87 weren't really all that bad. The ad budgets weren't as big as they are now so the studios needed to make less to turn a profit. Lethal Weapon was a decent hit. It kind of came out of nowhere and established Gibson as an "American" action hero. He'd had success with Mad Max, but this was the first time he carried an action film by playing an American character. This film was even bigger on video and cable. I remember LW being the kind of movie you loved to throw in the VCR on a slow night at the dorms. My friends and I must have watched LW and Die Hard over a dozen times our Freshman year.

[CMJ]

AMERICAN BEAUTY is one of the all-time greats.....

[Marcus Telcontar]

Did you actually SEE American Beauty?

I saw AB.


IT IS NOT AN ALL TIME GREAT. NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!

It is frankly just plain rotten. Unlike other movies I see but dont like, I did not see many redeeming values on this nonsense. I simply can not believe this pathetic piece of trash won anything. The only thing that I can barely say okay to is Kevin Spacey (??), he was okay. It certainly did not deserve to beat out The Sixth Sense, which was one hell of a brilliant movie.

The two fairly recent Oscar winners I look at and ask what glue were the Acadamy sniffing is Shakesphere in Love and American Beauty. I firmly believe niether deserved their awards and there were movies that year that were clearly more worthy.

If its true that A Beautiful Mind is mainly good by one performance, then it deserves to award that performance, not the movie.

[Darth23]

Back in 87 $100 million MEANT something....

:p

[JMK]

Give me 100 million in 2002 and I guarantee it'll mean a whole lot! :lol

[CMJ]

Marcus I have to disagree...AB was one helluva great movie. I could post 15 pages analyzing it..but I doubt any of you would read it. :)

As far as SIXTH SENSE that was the worst nominee of '99...I'm still blown away it was nominated. Was it good...yes. Was it worth a nomination...no.

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by CMJ
AMERICAN BEAUTY is one of the all-time greats.....

Yes, it is. :)


Originally posted by Marcus Q'Dunn
The Sixth Sense, which was one hell of a brilliant movie.

Definitely.

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by CMJ
Marcus I have to disagree...AB was one helluva great movie. I could post 15 pages analyzing it..but I doubt any of you would read it. :)

I would definitely read it and could write the same amount of pages. :)


As far as SIXTH SENSE that was the worst nominee of '99.

Nope, The Cider House Rules was, IMO.

[Jedieb]

Back in 87 $100 million MEANT something....
Yeah, it meant something. In 2002 dollars it means around $158.97M. In case anyone was wondering. :D

I thought AB was an excellent film. TSS was a great thriller as well. I thought both earned their nominations. I wouldn't have voted for TSS, but I would have voted for AB. To each his own.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I didn't care for AB but that is just my opinion I would have picked The Sixth sense.

[JonathanLB]

Because SS was a much better movie. It was crafted brilliantly by one of the best directors of our time whereas AB was just thrown together like the piece of trash that it was.

Dutchy, I have more vast taste in movies than you could possibly comprehend. I'm a much bigger movie buff than you are and I see many more movies too, so don't even pretend to act like you are some great film buff when you have no appreciation for good film whatsoever.

The Sixth Sense was not the worst best picture nominee of that year, it was the only film there that had any place getting a nomination. The other two best films of the year, both better than anything nominated, were The Phantom Menace and The Matrix, but of course it would be idiotic to expect the Oscars to award the best films of any year. It just so happened we got lucky last year with the best picture winner, but that type of luck is not to be expected very often.

[Champion of the Force]

Opinion, opinion, opinion ... it's all opinions people.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Exactly

[CMJ]

Jon no offense but that was kind of a rude comment towards Dutchy. We all have different tastes in movies(obviously since you don't recognize the brilliance of some of my faves and I think some of yours are WAY overrated). Nonetheless I usually "try" and respect people's opinions(not sure I always do..but I TRY).

If you wanna go for straight out depth of movie choices...I think most of us on the board have our own eclectic mix. I know I have a wide and varied taste...and most of the others do too.

Basically...peace, everybody...peace. :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

I agree CMJ, I think its silly to fight over a movie of all things. I personally don't care if someone likes something I think is terrible, that is there choice, now Jon you are getting close to calling Dutchy an idiot for liking AB that would be wrong. That would someone calling you stupid for liking TPM and that wouldn't be right either. I understand you have strong opinion on that matter and that is fine, but don't trash individuals go on and trash the movie all you want thats cool, a movie can't get its feelings hurt.

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by Davwj
Opinion, opinion, opinion ... it's all opinions people.

Exactly, but Jonathan can't tell the difference between opinions and facts. Plus he doesn't care much about other people's opinons. Or as he worded it earlier in this thread: "what everyone else says is just unnecessary information."

And often he steps out of discussions. Just look at all the threads where questions where asked him and he never responded.

He rather keeps on ranting about his own so called facts. :)

[Jedieb]

No one should call anyone stupid for liking TPM. Now, for not only liking MacGyver but thinking it was thought provoking and deep television..... ;)

[Marcus Telcontar]

I know it's a fact I hated AB. Can I have that time aI wasted back?

[Jedieb]

Hold on there Marcus, I put my paperwork in to get time back for The Object of My Affection and Event Horizon WAAAAAY before you saw AB. I've got first dibs. :cool

Oh, and I really liked AB. I thought it was well constructed, well acted, and moving film. Spacey's voice overs were great and his last line was very poignant. But that's just me.