Perhaps I am Mistaken

[DarthHERA]

Maybe Im wrong, but I thought somewhere along the way we had agreed to a rule of "No Public Posting of Private Conversations" here??

If not, could we make it a rule?

I for one am very against this practice. Its like someone listening in on a phone conversation and then playing the tape for all and sundry.

Its just wrong and should not be allowed unless both parties agree to its posting.

[Cizerack Hunter Forces]

sounds good to me.

[Jedah Lynch]

A nice rule.

So would it be only good for here or would it be something that would be enforced on all boards, because usually some people will post convos in locked forums.

I wouldnt mind hearing clarification on this.

Because really its an interesting topic.

[TheHolo.Net]

We have no power over what is done at other boards persay, that is up to the individuals at other boards. :p

[Jedah Lynch]

Of course not.:)

But doesnt that defeat the purpose?

[Darth Vader]

Not at all....just robs the use of this venue for such actions. Groups are encouraged to do so as well (think the Golden Rule), but as with pretty much anything else, SWFans has no say over procedure that they adhere to. But within this forum, we do have that option.

[Jeseth Cloak]

Good idea. ^_^

[Jedah Lynch]

SWFans has no say over procedure that they adhere to. But within this forum, we do have that option.

So it can be governed here by a select group of people. Okay.

But would it be hyporcritical if those same people who govern such a rule here doing the opposite of what they preach elsewhere? Especially if they were complaining or against convos being posted here yet post in such threads elsewhere.

If such a thing did occur mind you. Surely a rule would not be asked for if it was being rather much discarded anyone else, right?

I mean would that just look bad or overall you know just be very hypocritical wouldn't it?

No one here would be asked to do what some did not abide by themselves correct?

[Jeseth Cloak]

Jedah, SWFans.net is a separate board with separate rules, moderators, and administrators. It would be up to each individual board to implement those rules if they wanted them. If someone makes themselves look like a hypocrite, then that's their own perogative.

[Jedah Lynch]

Jedah, SWFans.net is a separate board with separate rules, moderators, and administrators. It would be up to each individual board to implement those rules if they wanted them. If someone makes themselves look like a hypocrite, then that's their own prerogative.

Half sounds like your trying to justify something.

But really, lets just say if it does happen. Wouldnt it be rather a poor state of affairs if a bunch of people were trying to enforce rules on some yet not abiding themselves elsewhere?

I mean if anyone did that they'd get chewed out for it acting as such. Well some would, some wouldnt usually it depends on who one talks to nowadays.

But really if it was not being done elsewhere and others were basically told to follow rules when some dont follow what they preach do you think many will listen for long or it wont be done still at times? I mean really, you can lead a camel to water but you cant make it drink. Or better yet one leads by example.

Then again doubt its really an realistic issue at this current time with any crediable RPers I'm sure. :)

[TSO Naval Officer]

If there's a point to be made, do not pussyfoot around it.

[Varlon Konrad]

Originally posted by TSO Naval Officer
If there's a point to be made, do not pussyfoot around it.
Chill out, man. We don't need this degrading into a thread resembling a fleet discussion.

[Jedah Lynch]

I agree with Var, I'm merely a concerned poster using his free speech that is allowed on this board to voice his valid opinion and discuss the topic in a rational and proper manner.

And oh dont worry, if I had anything to say or change I'm sure I would do it,I often do after all right? I'm simply musing for my own sake and think its own proper we all be on the same level and wave length, I mean to say lets have the rule here and not elsewhere is pretty...you know dumb. That and I'm confident if any such thing was being done it would be brought out in due time and judged by the public.

So no problem:)

[TSO Naval Officer]

I'm frosty enough, Varlon.

But I'm not going to take this vague goose chase crap anymore. I don't mind making a point, as long as there's a destination to the whole thing. I'm not debasing Jedah's thoughts, but if he's gonna put these ideas to use, he's gotta not be vague and rather unclear.

Hypothetically speaking is nice, but as the saying goes...some people just don't speak the language of Hypothetical. Not to mention...being so vague can (gasp) raise suspicion around here.

And as many people have said already, we have plenty of that as it is.

[Varlon Konrad]

:lol No, they probably speak the language of the Hypertheoretical, like I do

[Jedah Lynch]

I'm merely asking questions and debating the subject, I swear you people always think I got an agenda nowadays.

Maybe I've replaced Itala and DT as the traditional SW boogie man.

:lol

Cool:)

[Marcus Telcontar]

AAACCCHHOOOOO!!!!!
* Splat *


Now there is a boogie, man

[Jedah Lynch]

Someone already said pussyfoot.

Some just spit out some booger.

All we need now is someone to say Uranus.:p

[Varlon Konrad]

Why, Jedah? Forget to wipe? :lol

[TSO Naval Officer]

The parameters for your hypothetical situation are awfully focused to be so random.

I can give the benefit of the doubt, but make sure that you stick to open conjecture, and not veiled stabs.

[Marcus Telcontar]

* No Marcus.... DONT POST THAT LINK.....*

Okay, I will NOT post what I was thinking of saying.... I'ld be edited in two seconds flat ^_^

[TSO Naval Officer]

...only if it violates forum policy.

Humor aside, DT. We are trying to resolve this matter, and if you have something to offer up, it is welcomed.

[Jedah Lynch]

I can give the benefit of the doubt, but make sure that you stick to open conjecture, and not veiled stabs.

*Stops slashing victim after finishing fourth Scream movie and lifts up mask*

Actually if I was planning to "stab" I'd probably do it in a far direct method thus staying in tune with my profile:)

Var your still banished to the spice mines.:p

Marcus.....dont go there.

:lol

Anyhoo believe I said all my sides and done my peace so nothing left to say unless someone wants to do a counter point or whatnot:)

*Watchs people run off*

Is it my breath?

RSO for a pack of mints!!!!

[DarthHERA]

I dont get the debate..?

I mean, what happens at other boards is not SWForums problem, so why should it be made so?

Is it a good rule to have at THIS community or not? If yes, then do it. Make the rule and be done with it.

For goodness sake, do we gotta argue over everything??>_<


I understand completely the point Jedah is making, but really, what people do in their private forums or their privately owned boards is up to them. How is it possible to control that, and who would want to? All we can do is effect what we can here and then hope others will follow by example. If not, its not really our problem.

I cant imagine going to other Board communities (outside of SW's or anywhere) and veiwing private conversations plastered all over for general consensus or disapproval. To do it here is just "wack" imo.


Make the rule or dont. Either way, let other boards make their own choices.

(sorry if I sound short, but the endless headbutting is getting on my nerves)

[Jeseth Cloak]

Half sounds like your trying to justify something.It sounds like I'm telling you the facts. If people post private conversations at their own boards it's their decision. SWFans.net does not control and regulate all other boards. I am heartily in favor of this rule and will put for a proposition to make this a rule at the boards that I am an administrator of.

That is all. |I

[Rama]

I think he is just trying to say that if someone swore up down it was wrong here, and just deligated to posting the convos on their own boards instead that it would kinda be like double talk. And IMHO opinon kinda sad. I've posted Im convos before.......so im not inoccent, but im also not pushing for any new rules either. So go fig. I just don't get what the difference is in posting it here, and posting it in at a priavate board. It's viloation of trust no matter where you post it.

But I do agree enforceing any kinda rule over other boards would be impossible, even if there was a rule people would just lie. So it would be impossible to make it work. Some people should just use their better judgement and have some respect for each other and not do it, but I doubt that's gonna happen anytime soon.


*Edit used the wrong word. :p

[Jedah Lynch]

Thought it best to add yes it is impossible to control, fully impossible, no one can watch over everything. But as Rama did say its rather double standard for some to preach one place and do on another if such things go on.

No one is innocent in the matter, we are all guilty to some degree. Either by posting or reading some at times.

Ah well enough mumb jumbo cause sure such thoughts is merely the annoying thoughts of this poster early in the morning. :lol :)

Edited out some due to overall all crypticness that might cause some to get paranoid. :p

[Gav Mortis]

In my opinion, the posting of someones AIM convo without their permission, whether said poster was involved in the convo or not is downright wrong and quite frankly immoral. There should be no doubt in anyones mind about that, it really isn't difficult to comprehend what is right and wrong on that matter.

However, the posting of peoples AIM convos with both parties in agreement is not a problem whatsoever, as long as both parties are fully aware of what exactly is being posted. This is beneficial when planning roleplays for example when in AIM roleplayers are tossing ideas back and forth, then by posting it, others can add their thoughts on the matter and a great deal of use can come from it.

But as has been raised here, if an Admin here who is enforcing this rule of no posting IM convos without permission goes off to his/her own groups board or whatnot and posts an IM convo without an individuals consent - well, that would be downright hypocrisy and laughable really. But, at the end of the day, that does not fall under the juristiction of the SWFans roleplaying community. That action should not concern us here, and the issue should be raised at the board where the crime was committed.

Jedah is correct in saying that if a figure of authority enforcing this rule did go and do the opposite at another board it would be both hypocritical and perhaps cause a backdraught of rebellious, inflammatory posters here who start posting unnauthorised AIM convos once again. But nevertheless, that is without doubt the worst-case scenario and still gives no reason why this rule should not be enforced.

Like DT has said so often here, the main rule is common sense and if respecting others privacy isn't classified as common sense then we are fools. So, let us establish this rule; it is fair, just and moral, and the sooner, the better. The foot should be put down now.

[Delirion]

I think it's saying enough that a topic such as this needs to be brought up, even. Shouldn't it be common courtesy, and respect for the people we all talk to on AIM, MSN, etc every day, to keep what they tell us between ourself and the other person? If not, then that's what chatrooms are for.

The thing is - it doesn't matter whether it is impossible to implement on private boards, as well as on public ones. It should not even be an issue anywhere - talks on AIM or MSN are between two people, and what is being said in them is PRIVATE. That does not mean it is suitable for perusal by anyone else on a PRIVATE board, unless the other person knows about this and has given permission to do so.

Sure, we've all done it to some degree - we've heard things said that we used for our own good or for someone else's, whether it be IC or OOC. Sometimes we receive information that we act upon, in any kind of situation - that does not exclude telling some of it to someone else. We've all done that. But I think if we do that it is with the intent to be helpful to the other person - and it does not mean we deliberately go out of the way to say "so-and-so has told me this and this is what you should or should not do because of that". By posting conversation excerpts, that is in essence what is done: deliberately give away the identity of the person who came to us in confidence, and the intent behind it is not helpful to anyone, but rather harmful and hurtful.

I've been here long enough to witness people being hurt by someone posting or sending excerpts of conversations that were not intended to reach their ears. I've heard the hurt behind what people said when they found that their trust was betrayed. And I've heard (and in one occasion, I myself felt) the satisfaction of the person who sees another person hurt by what was being said - out of spite, not to be helpful.

It should be simply a matter of using common sense to avoid doing such things, because it causes hurt and mistrust between a lot of people. Let's face it - we're all here to have fun, not to have to deal with people making our lives miserable by using our own words against us. And it doesn't matter if that's done somewhere private - just because only a few can read it, doesn't mean that word doesn't leak out.

[Rama]

The thing is - it doesn't matter whether it is impossible to implement on private boards, as well as on public ones. It should not even be an issue anywhere - talks on AIM or MSN are between two people, and what is being said in them is PRIVATE. That does not mean it is suitable for perusal by anyone else on a PRIVATE board, unless the other person knows about this and has given permission to do so.


Exactly.........It's not about just inforceing the rules here. If that's all your concerned with then your missing the whole point. I mean what's the difference if you post an IM convo here to everyone to make someone look bad.........or post in a locked forum so you can just make them look bad to your best buds. It doesn't matter where it is, it's wrong. And you should use some common sense and have little respect for people.

[TheHolo.Net]

I don’t see how it can be the staff here at SWFans’ responsibility to govern what is happening at other boards. You are free to discuss the issue all you like about that subject, but we have no say over what happens or does not happen at boards we are not responsible for.


Maybe Im wrong, but I thought somewhere along the way we had agreed to a rule of "No Public Posting of Private Conversations" here??The subject matter of the initial request of this topic was already agreed to, that is all the staff here can do.

[Gia Van Derveld]

Okay this is LD, just in case there was any doubt. Which I am sure there was. :p


(sorry if I sound short, but the endless headbutting is getting on my nerves) I COULD NOT AGREE MORE!

I know, lets argue about whether Burger King or McDonalds' fries are better. Goodness, its just as pointless as arguing about arguing. But I digress...

Posting of private AIM or MSN or whatever conversations? Wrong, of course. Most people have enough common sense to know that. (Sorry Swfans.Net, not intended to make ya sound dumb :p)

Posting AIM convos in a private forum is something I do often. In fact, I sometimes ASK people to. Why? Because of what I use my board for: the planning of RPs. In fact, I just posted a bit of a convo I had with Morgan there, because I was explaining to him what was happening with LD currently. And I did it so well, I didn't want to forget it! ;) Well he said he was still confused, but *I* understood what I was saying.

But if its not pertaining to the RP, I don't post THAT part. Use common sense people! Its CALLED common because *gasp* everyone HAS IT! At least I thought so. Why make rules about things as if we are all stupid and walking around with only half a brain (no offense to the people here with only half a brain!). Goodness, and lets not pussyfoot around issues. The bushes have been beaten enough! Leave them alone and get to the point! :p

[imported_Firebird1]

The bushes are fine, but do we need new ones, hold on I'll talk to my friend Jimmy! He's on AIM!

Oh wait I can't tell you all about it because it's private and is wrong!

Dang, we could of gotten them for pennies!

[ReaperFett]

If someone told you on AIM they were cheating or the like, and then denied this, could you show the convo?

[Gav Mortis]

Originally posted by ReaperFett
If someone told you on AIM they were cheating or the like, and then denied this, could you show the convo?

Now you've done it. Very interesting scenario, very. I'll have a think about that one...

[ReaperFett]

we could be here weeks then :)

[imported_Eve]

Interesting Fettish -

Now I know you're all not American here, but in our law system, certain things can not be used as evidence, if obtained illegally (when violating privacy laws, etc.). For instance, if someone confesses to murder over the phone to me, and I was taping the conversation, I could not use the recording as evidence. Taping the conversation in the first place was illegal, because it violates privacy amendments/laws, and can not be used as evidence. Evidence obtained illegally is null and void. Just like it is illegal to "bug" someone's home. Now, I can state that I was told, over the phone, that so-and-so confessed to murder, and that can be used as a disposition or statement of events and rendered as evidence.

Now, I'm not saying the law is always fair, and yes it may prevent the murderer from being prosecuted, but on the other hand, it enables me to vacuum naked (not that I do) in my own home, without anyone watching.

Get what I mean?

Where do you draw the line?
When is it appropriate to show the log, and to whom is it appropriate to show?
What if you're taking something out of context?

What someone may say to one person may be incriminating evidence to them, and nothing to someone else.

The whole nature of an IM, is that it is private, and not meant for other's eyes. It would take some kind of idiot to confess to something to someone they didn't intend to tell. It'd be like the Sith telling the Jedi that they will be stealing Master Yoda's teddy bear at exactly 4:08pm tomorrow, by sneaking into his room disguised as a big giant fruit-of-the-loom grape bushel. HEL-LO!

I just see a whole array of issues coming along with that. It's a trade off I suppose. You still can just come out and say that someone told you something bad, and hopefully you have a reputation as an honest person.

[ReaperFett]

it enables me to vacuum naked (not that I do) in my own home, without anyone watching

What if we asked nicely? :)


Still sounds dumb to me though. I mean, what if the other person was credible on the outside too? Suddenly, its just who do you believe most.

[Jeseth Cloak]

What I have seen to be the case when this happens is that a moderator or admin will ask to see the log file. It is still not put out into the open.

[Mortaniuss]

I am of the opinion that personal conversations with no bearing on the roleplaying environment should be reposted. However, I do think that something which affects the RP Environment (such as someone admitting to cheating, for example) should be allowed.