India vs Pakistan?

[Jedi Master Carr]

Anybody else see this story about India's parliament getting attacked by gunmen here is a recent story and it is getting me concerened.
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011213/wl/india_dc_1.html

If India attacks these terroist bases Pakistan my attack India and then we could have a huge mess on our hands. This is worse than Isreal because these two powers have nukes and who knows what could happen espeiclaly if the current Pakistan regime fell some dictator could start sending nukes India's way and then India would do the same, if that happened most of the middle east would be a Nuclear Grave yard for about a 1000 years probably killing at least a Billion people if not more. I think Bush needs to get his act together and have a meeting with the presidents of these two nations and try to prevent a war from happening.

[Darth23]

Uh, we already have a huge mess on our hands.

The Taliban was created mostly with the support of radical forces in Pakistan (our 'ally') and many terrorists groups get money from Saudi Arabia (virtually our property) because the Saudis pay them off in order be left alone.

And if anyone thinks dropping a bunch of bombs are going to solve all the problems or end them - or even make us safe, they're crazy.

[Jedi Master Carr]

But if India and Pakistan start fighting it could get even worse and it could make the 9/11 look small in comparison. I just wish our president would use some diplomacy to try to stop these two nations from going to war.

[darth_mcbain]

Prevent a nuclear war - yes... Nobody wants that. But we are currently in a war against terrorism. I think we need to step and and acknowledge that it was a terrorist attack on India and that we will stand against whoever did it... Just makes the current mess we're in even worse.

[Jedi Master Carr]

But Pakistan is our Ally in the war against Terroism so if India attacks Pakistan we can't defend India, it would be a bad move. I don't think Pakistan has anything to do with it any way, it all involves Kashimir which is a mess itself and in that war both India and Pakistan are wrong. They have both done some nasty things in the past to each other so there really is no good guy in the situation. I'm just saying that we need to make sure India doesn't do something stupid like start a war, sure they can bomb some bases in Kashimir and I doubt Pakistan would do anything but if they attacked Pakistan, I am sure Pakistan would retailiate.

[darth_mcbain]

I guess that is the question - is Pakistan our ally in the war against Terrorism? So far it seems they are, but if they are now stooping to terrorist attacks, then I wouldn't be so sure. Unfortunately, it is hard to separate out groups within countries (Kashmir is part of Pakistan, right?). It is true that it could just be a radical group within Pakistan, but then what should our position be? Turn completely against Pakistan? Or continue our alliance with them, but force them to single out groups in their own country? But you are right, if war broke out between India and Pakistan, there would be no real good move for the U.S., as we want to keep relations good with both sides.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Kashmir is a disputed region, its mostly in India, there is a section in Pakistan though. A little more than half the people living there are Muslim and want to join Pakistan, but there are some Hindus there too who want to remain apart of India, its kind of like N. Ireland but the history is not as long but it is still been bloody. The whole thing goes back to when India got its independence in 1947 the when Ghandi got assassinated by his own people. Ghandi was trying to work out an aggreement with Pakistan on Kashmir and on other things but some radical Hindu got pissed ans shot him. Since then things got worse and worse, the two countries have fought 3 wars over the province which most people ignored but now things are different the two states have nukes and it makes any war more deadly.

[darth_mcbain]

With all the bickering and war over land and territories, it almost makes you wish you could handle like you'd handle a child's dispute and say "you both want the region? We will simply split it in half and each of you will get a piece of it." If only life could be so simple...

[Jedi Master Carr]

I wish it was that simple but both sides want the land to themselves and it doesn't help that the two sides hate each others so much.

[JMK]

They shouls settle it the old fashioned way; playing cards.

[darth_mcbain]

Best of seven Rock Paper Scissors...

[Jedi Master Carr]

Or they could flip a coin.

[Jedi Master Carr]

In case nobody has noticed the situation over Kashmir is growing even worse here is a story from yahoo
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20011225/ts/india_pakistan.html

I can't believe this is not getting coverage by CNN etc this is way more dangerous than any other part of the world, to make matters worse some foreign affairs guy yesterday reported on another article that he would not be surprised if there was a nuclear incident. So why does are President do something, or the UN, or the EU this is way worse than anything we could seen, if India and Pakistan started launching nukes at each other Sept 11 would pale in comparison, it is possible that a billion people could die (India has a population of a billion, Pakistan 1/2 billion) if not more so why doesn't somebody calm them down? Is Bush afraid that he would look like a weak man if he told India not to respond to a terroist attack? Does the rest of the world not care (some might say they are just hindus and muslims who cares), what really worries me is there isn't enough intention being shown to it and thats scary. This situation could blow up over night.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The situation is not getting any better here is the latest news

NEW DELHI, India (AP) - As India and Pakistan shot at each other and spoke of war, weeping friends and relatives on both sides bid farewell Friday before the two nations sever their land and air links for the first time in 30 years.

Warning that an Indian troop buildup at the border was pushing the countries into confrontation, Pakistan told the United States it may need to further reinforce its side of the frontier by moving troops now helping the U.S. hunt for Osama bin Laden (news - web sites), Pakistani officials said.

President Bush (news - web sites) said Friday his administration was ``working actively to bring some calm in the region, to hopefully convince both sides to stop the escalation of force.'' He said India should ``take note'' of steps by Pakistan to crack down on Islamic militants.

The South Asian rivals - both of which have nuclear weapons - have been threatening a new war since a Dec. 13 attack by gunmen on India's Parliament. New Delhi says Pakistan sponsored the attack and demands it arrest and extradite the leaders of two militant groups India says conducted the operation. Pakistan denies the charge.

The Indian army ordered evacuations of 20,000 people from more than 40 border villages in the Indian-held part of Kashmir (news - web sites), and traded shells overnight with Pakistani border forces, officials said Friday. Soldiers also laid mines outside the villages.

Retaliatory firing by Pakistani troops killed a 3-year-old in an Indian border village, police said. The firing ended two days of relative calm.

The two nations on Thursday ordered each other's 110-person embassy staffs cut in half and banned overflights as of next Tuesday. On that day, India will also close bus and train links, and private cars will also be barred from crossing the border - closing transport links for the first time since the 1971 war.

The halt to transportation links is a haunting reminder of past wars and a psychological blow for millions on both sides connected by blood or friendship.

Men and women wept, desperately embraced relatives and tried to hold hands through the iron window grills of the cars as the Samjhauta Express, the only train between the two nations, pulled out of the Old Delhi station, carrying people home before the deadline.

At the Lahore station in Pakistan, an Indian woman, Amina Begum, stood tightly holding the hand of her brother Tanveer Ahmad, a Pakistani. Both wept.

Separated in their childhood, they had met after 53 years. ``I had come here to stay for two months, but now I'm going back just after seven days,'' Begum said as she boarded the train. ``Now I don't think he will be able to see me even at my death.''

A spokesman for Pakistan's military-government said India's troop buildup at the border was making a confrontation inevitable. ``The Indian government is putting itself into a corner where it would be difficult for them to now back off,'' Gen. Rashid Quereshi said in Islamabad.

Pakistan told the United States on Friday through official channels that it may have to move troops from its western Afghan border to the eastern frontier with India, a senior diplomatic official and a senior army official said. Those troops are currently patrolling the Afghan border, hunting for fleeing members of bin Laden's al-Qaida terror group.

Speaking at his ranch in Crawford, Texas, Bush said Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) had spoken to both sides, urging restraint. He praised Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, saying he had arrested 50 ``extreme terrorists.''

Powell called Musharraf and Indian Foreign Minister Jaswant Singh on Friday and urged both to resolve their differences through dialogue, State Department spokesman Philip Reeker said.

Reeker also reaffirmed the U.S. view that the leaders should use an upcoming meeting of South Asian leaders in Nepal to discuss their differences.

India has said Pakistan has only taken ``cosmetic'' steps against two Islamic militant groups New Delhi says conducted the Parliament attack - Lashkar-e-Tayyaba and Jaish-e-Mohammed. Pakistan has frozen the groups' assets and arrested some members but demands proof of their involvement. The Parliament attack left nine Indians and the five attackers dead.

Indian Home Minister Lal K. Advani said India was ready for a decisive battle ``irrespective of the support we get from other countries in this war against terrorism.''

The United States, European nations, China and the United Nations (news - web sites) have urged Musharraf and Indian Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee to meet at a Jan. 4-6 gathering of South Asian leaders in Nepal. India said that will not happen, though both leaders are attending.

India and Pakistan have fought three wars since independence from Britain in 1947. Two of those wars - in 1947 and 1965 - were fought over the divided Himalayan region of Kashmir. Many in both countries feared the prospect of a fourth.

``I want India to be tough, I want Pakistan to be taught a lesson for promoting terrorism. But war - I don't know, I still remember the blackouts of 1971 and the sirens and the jets flying overhead,'' said Radha Rastogi, a woman in India's northern city of Lucknow.

Though cargo can still be moved by train across the border, the closing of transportation links was likely to hurt the countries' $280 million in official trade annually. Another $1 billion worth goods illegally cross the border every year.

``We are feeling tense now,'' said Shafiqur Rahman Rao, a Pakistani marble exporter at a trade fair in Calcutta, India. ``We don't want war at any cost.''

The transport links are among the few concrete results of peace efforts in the countries' long rivalry. Vajpayee launched the New Delhi-Lahore bus service in February 1999, riding into Pakistan himself in what was seen as a path-breaking peace gesture between the neighbors.

The twice-weekly train service started in 1976 after a peace deal ended the 1971 war.

I t looks like there very well could be a war, the US has entered the picture too late, they only started talking to them last Friday, they should have been involved in this when the incident first started, and also I think Bush should talk to the leaders himself not Powell, this is a very dangerous situation that could esculate to God knows what. Its also very likely that if he is not allready dead, Bin Laden will escape, because Pakistan will be forced to remove the rest of their troops to their eastern border and at the same time our troops will have to leave Pakistan.