Davwj, Jedieb attention we might have a small problem

[Jedi Master Carr]

Hey guys I think I encounter my first problem as a moderated, Jedieb you know about some of it. There was two threads talking about the ratings for the TPM, one running in Films, one running in Box office. Well the films one was started by Qui Gon on Sunday and then today Darth 23 stated one. Well at first I wasn't sure what to do and I PM Jedieb about it, we came to a decision to let them know we were going to move it the I moved it and merged it with the other thread. Well I came back a few minutes ago and Darth was very upset it seems and said he was out of here (not sure what that means) and than Jon posted something about that we should post where ever we want. Well I posted something then basically telling them why I moved it and I even tried to compromise by keeping Darth's title The Backlash COntnues - ShowBizData vs. Hollywood Reporter but it could get worse knowing Jon so I figured I might now need your help because I doubt I can handle both Darth and Jon by myself. Help me Davjw and Jedieb, your my only hopes:D

[Jedi Master Carr]

Hey guys the problem is getting a little worse, QuiGon pm me saying he agreed with Jonathan (gasp) and was threatened to right 5 posts about it or something. I PM him back trying to explain my reasons. Also I just thought of something could I have split off the messenges dealing with the ratings and merged them with the ones in Darth's post? If so I think I could have avoided this whole mess. Or maybe not it might be the same. Davjw get back to me when you can. I unfortuntely will be out and won't be home until 10 PM EST so if you would like to take care of the problem go ahead or you can wait for me your call.

[Jedieb]

I knew this was going to happen! :(

We're just trying to follow the guidelines we were given when we became mods but we're coming across as forum nazis abusing their power. (Okay, so I'm exaggerating, sue me.) I don't know what to tell them except that we're just doing what we were asked to do when we became mods, which is basically to try to keep the forum organized. But old timers who only like to post in one place are reluctant to keep their posts organized. They like writing about everything under the sun in the B.O. forum and they don't want to change their habits. I'm guilty of this at times but I've been to be more disciplined. I don't know what to do except to maybe have a discussion about why we've moved and merged the threads. The irony is that kind of thread belongs in the General Discussion forum but many of the B.O. posters never go there. So we'd be having a thread about posting topics in the correct forum IN THE WRONG FORUM!

So what do you think about having a thread to discuss this with the posters?

[Champion of the Force]

:: crawls out of bed ::

Sorry guys - I've been sick the past couple of days and haven't logged on. I'm still feeling a bit off so I can't gurantee being around often for the next week or so. Just so you all know.

I'll be leaving shortly again but can you please direct me to the thread/s where this occured. Also if possible PM me copies of private transactions regarding the matter you've had with the posters so I can get up to date with everything.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help at this time, but I'm not in the best condition to tackle this at the moment. :x


I don't know what to do except to maybe have a discussion about why we've moved and merged the threads. The irony is that kind of thread belongs in the General Discussion forum but many of the B.O. posters never go there. So we'd be having a thread about posting topics in the correct forum IN THE WRONG FORUM!
No it won't. ANY topic dealing with how the forum/board operates is automatically on topic, no matter which forum it's in.

If someone tries to throw that comment at you, just tell them that. :)

[Jedieb]

I had a PM with QuiGon but I already deleted it. He seems to be okay with everything. The thread is in the films forum;

http://www.swforums.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11146

There's a bunch of Bea Arthur stuff that you should just close your eyes to. It's scary stuff.:x

[Jedi Master Carr]

Ok first here is Qui Gon's PM
I find it surreal to think I'm agreeing with Jonathan Bowen about anything, especially moderator decisions.

However, I'll refrain from following CCnet tradition about having a mod action taken about my thread, which would entail starting no less than five threads in multiple forums decrying how my free speech rights have been violated, the management is aligned with Axis powers, and of course, using lots of profanity.

Just cause threads aresimilar doesn't mean they are the same, and renaming my thread only managed to upset me and Darth23 for different but similar reasons.

here is second post it is not as bad as the first
I'll agree the compromise didn't make anyone really happy. I was ticked cause I thought my thread was deleted. It took me 3 reloads and checking both forums for a couple of minutes to realize what happened.

At CCnet I usually only moderating posters posting about body parts involved with waste elimination or sex, for bashing groups of people, and for flaming. I'm considered quite the dictator for it.

We don't have thread merging on UBB or at ezboard. I can see it's usefulness in some things, but right now I don't think these particular forums have enough traffic right to make using merging that needed, but that's my two cents.

And yeh, that's why I'm using PMs instead of sparking debates on it on the boards. No one likes reading flamefests, that's for sure.

May the Force be with you

Ok Qui-Gon didn't seem too bad about it once I PM but Darth seemed really mad and Jon well is Jon;) I think we need to repost that EP2 thing we had up a while back maybe this time we need to say that they will be moved that it is the rules of the board or something to clear up this mess, though it might. By the way you didn't answer my question about spliting up threads? Is it at all possible.

[TheHolo.Net]

Threads can be split by almost the same process as merging them. My 2 cents on the technical issues here. :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Ok thanks its too late to do it know but it could be useful down the road.

[TheHolo.Net]

This may not be the best way to deal with the issue, but it is something that all posters have to agree to before they even register. Have a look at the last sentence.

http://www.swforums.net/forum/register.php?s=&action=signup&who=adult&

[Jedi Master Carr]

Thanks I don't think we have to use it yet I'm going to see what will happen tomorrow. QuiGon seemed pretty cool about it and for the most part understood. He did see Darth was mad but maybe its best it we let him cool down. I am more worried about Jon because he thinks he can post anything where ever he wants it and I am worried about a future confrontation between him and either Davwj, Jedieb and myself, or another poster. It has happened in the past and I've been hoping he won't get on rampage and that last post was the closest he has come to it recently.

[TheHolo.Net]

I wish you the best of luck and will offer to come in as a third party who is unfamiliar with them to help if needed.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Thanks if I need your assistance I will let you know.

[Champion of the Force]

Ok, I'm feeling a bit better and have now managed to get up-to-date with what happened.

1. Carr didn't do anything wrong. Perhaps in hindsight the situation could have been handled a tad better, but there was still nothing wrong with the overall objective. In fact, I think Carr may have gone a bit too far in trying to please some posters as a result of the action (ie. renaming Qui's thread to make Darth23 happy).

That's one thing I think we should all take from this - do your best to keep everyone happy but avoid making others unhappy at the same time if at all possible. :)

2.
However, I'll refrain from following CCnet tradition about having a mod action taken about my thread ... - QuiGonJ
He's not on CC.Net - he's on SWFans.Net. I respect Qui a lot for the amount of effort he's done over there, however CC.Net and SWFans are 2 different places which operate in different ways.

For starters, at CC.Net it's the normal posting poulation that gets the say in how, why and when the board is moderated - so much so that half the posting population over there has moderator capabilities. It all goes back to the early days of SWFans when Jason removed COuntryBOy and Lounge Lizard (now known as Sanis Prent :)) for editing messages posted by trolls in a 'humourous' fashion. The trolls whinged to Jason and thus he revoked their mod abilities ((CB's and LL's, not the trolls :)). Needless to say, everyone was ticked off by the decision and by the fact that Jason didn't even bother looking into the matter personally and just relied on the trolls' opionions. As a result, 95% of posters abandoned the place and founded CC.Net, where posters would always hold the final decisions to avoid the chance of the board being run by a 'dictator'.

Of course, here on SWFans things operate a tad differently. The admins do hold the final say on matters and do have the power to decide board policy. Of course, we try to do it in a way that best satisfies both ourselves and the posters at the same time. However, that's a different way of operating things compared to CC.Net.

That's a particular point that needs to be emphasised whenever someone says 'but at this board we do it this way.' well we're not that board, and therefore we don't necessarily have to go about things the same way as they do.

3. Darth23 is Darth23, and Jon is Jon. Darth23 is great but he's also overly sentimental. He had a whinge to me last year when we merged the Boxoffice and Entertainment forums. Why?


... because now the forum is for entertainment only and not boxoffice like it used to.
(that isn't a direct quote BTW - but you get the idea)

He complained about it despite the fact that the content of the forum didn't change a bit (people had been posting normal entertainment threads in there for months). To keep him happy I changed the name to it's current title so that it emphasised boxoffice AND entertainment (hence why it is so damn long-winded).

As for Jon, well funnily enough I'm never really bothered by what Jon thinks :). However though I read through the thread mentioned and uncovered some errors in his arguments:


I say we should not all have to change, the name is just a very poor reflection of what is discussed in that forum.
Last time I checked, pretty much everything in the respective forum is about ......... boxoffice and entertainment. Funnily enough, that's what the title states should be in there. :)


I don't think threads posted in the box office forum should have to do with box office. For a long while, years, we have used that forum for anything and everything and why not?
Once again:

a) The forum isn't just for boxoffice, it's foe entertainment in general.
b) 98% of what gets posted in the forum is on ... boxoffice and entertainment.

I think some people need to actually take a step back and look at what gets posted in the actual forum :). They've all been posting about boxoffice and entertainment for so long they do it without thinking and now assume that it's just general chatter. :)

Jon however hasn't struck me as being particularly concerned about it. I've already moved one of his threads before and his comments were of the same manner - 'I think this, but I don't particularly care either way'.

4. Now this is an interesting point. Jedieb mentioned above how general stuff should be going into General Discussion. However, for a long time it's been used only by newbies sayig hello, posters from other forums advertising, or by us staff members when we're ditching threads that don't belong anywhere else (hence it's nickname 'Dumping ground').

What I'm wondering is whether we should consider merging it with the Boxoffice forum and just creating a single forum:

Star Wars Boxoffice and Other Discussions

I had an idea to do that last year, but I dumped it because I wanted to go the other way around (merge boxoffice into general discussion and just call it General Discussion) and I knew the old timers get sentimental in regards to the Boxoffice forum since it was where SWFans was born.

However I think doing it the way I described above would work, since it maintains the boxoffice standing, PLUS it would then welcome 'general' topics as well that normally we'd be shuffling to the dumping ground.

However, the only problem I can see is that we may be over-generalising the forum - then again, one could argue it's going that way anyway. :)

Here endeth the rant. Let me know your thoughts. :)

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Davwj
What I'm wondering is whether we should consider merging it with the Boxoffice forum and just creating a single forum:

Star Wars Boxoffice and Other Discussions

I had an idea to do that last year, but I dumped it because I wanted to go the other way around (merge boxoffice into general discussion and just call it General Discussion) and I knew the old timers get sentimental in regards to the Boxoffice forum since it was where SWFans was born.I rather like the idea, but then its semi well known that I don't like really long boards with a ton of forums. :)

[Jedieb]

Call me sentimental, but I wouldn't want to change the name of the Box Office forum. Changing Entertainment to General would really broaden the Box Office Forum. The only problem I could see is that some would use it as an excuse to post ANYTHING they wanted in there. They'd never venture over to the Films, EU, or Collectibles forum.

In retrospect, we probably should have just used the move/copy feature. That way they could still see their thread in the B.O. Forum but reading it would have forced them to visit the Films forum. It's just hard to get people to venture into places their not use to, old timers especially.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I don't see a problem with doing that Davwj, hardly anybody posts in the general forum anyway so merging it wouldn't really matter. I think this problem has passed for now, Darth has said anything although Jon could still be a problem for other things, he does like to belittle people sometime just look in the HP boxoffice discussion he says that anybody that think that HP can challange TPM is a moron. Now that could be a problem with some newbies down the road. We will just have to wait and see there I guess. Also I think you are right I tried to please everybody in moving that thread, and in reality there was no way to please everybody. The only thing that I think I could have done is splited off the messages dealing the the ratings and moving to Darth's thread (I'm sure that wouldn't have made everybody happy) but it would it sepearted the thread since really the one in films dealt more with has anybody seen the film vs ratings in Box office which might fit there better anyway.

[Champion of the Force]

... but I wouldn't want to change the name of the Box Office forum.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say Eb. Do you mean you want to keep the current name and not change it *at all*, or do you mean you want the 'boxoffice' part to be left in if there is a name change?

Anyways, I'm not planning to merge the forums at the moment. I'd like to wait and see how it goes as traffic starts to increase over the coming months. We may end up with a whole new generation of posters setting the trends and the old-timers falling into line behind them, or maybe not. It's fairly open at this stage. :)

[Jedieb]

I don't want to see the words 'Box Office' dissapear. 'Box Office and General Discussion' would probably be a good idea. It would suit old timers well and we could still easily move/copy Film topics over to the Films forum. We could then just dump the General Discussion forum altogether.