Anyone want a National Title?

[Figrin D'an]

The BCS could be in for some major controversy.... Nebraska and Oklahoma both lose their rivalry games, shutting both out of the Big 12 title game and, possibly, the BCS all together. Now, Miami alone controls their own destiny for a spot in the Rose Bowl, with possibly their two toughest games, Washington and Virginia Tech, on the slate to close the regular season. Suddenly, teams like Oregon, Illinois, Texas and Maryland are back in the mix for the Rose Bowl. Illinois and Maryland have clinched automatic bids. Oregon is in as well, no matter what the result of the Civil War game against Oregon State. If Texas wins the Big 12 title game, it's hard not to consider them for a spot in the Rose Bowl. If Florida beats Tenessee, then wins the SEC title game, it's hard to deny them a spot either.

If Miami loses one of it's last two game, there could be 7 teams with one loss:

Miami
Nebraska
Texas (if they beat Colorado for the Big 12 title)
Florida or Tenessee
Oregon
Illinois
Maryland

(BYU will likely go undefeated, but they won't even come close to a BCS bid)

Maryland and Illinois don't have the opportunity to move up any higher in the BCS standings... their regular seasons are finished. So, their chances are slim to none. Nebraska's loss was too late in the season, so they're out. That leaves:

Miami
Texas
Florida or Tenessee
Oregon

If Miami drops a game, they're out. If they win out, they're in the Rose Bowl.
If Florida wins out, they'll beat out one-loss Texas and Oregon teams for the other spot. If Florida stumbles, Texas has the inside track. If both Florida and Texas lose, Oregon is in, unless they lose to Oregon St.


So, back to the original question... does anyone really want the National title? ;)

[Jedieb]

Well Dorsey's last throw makes it seem as if he doesn't want it. Still, Miami is up 7-0 and I think they'll win tonight. If the want it, it's theirs for the taking. I still can't get over Colorado's performance yesterday. They routed Nebraska's defense. It's a shame THEY couldn't find their way into a playoff, but we've got what we've got. Miami at VA Tech looked like a brutal game early in the year but the Hokies have been very inconsistant. They beat Virginia convincly last week and some Hokie players may be satisfied enough with that victory that the Miami game may not mean as much. I can't see Tech stopping Miami.

Gators V. Miami in the Rose Bowl, Hurricanes win.

[Darth23]

Considering the way Miami crushed Washington, I think you can pencil them in.


Hopefully Miami will get a chance to play the Gators in the title game, and humiliate them badly. (Nole fans always look for a silver lining ;))

[CMJ]

My alma mater The University of North Texas is going to it's first Bowl game since 1959!!!! (Of course I do care about the rest of college football...but not as much...) For a proud Mean Green Eagle like myself...who has had to endure YEARS of pathetic squads...it's truly wonderful. I'm gonna fly back to New Orleans for our game...:)

Scrap'em Eagles!

Go Mean Green!

:)

[Darth23]

North Texas?

I've heard of Texas, Taxas A & M, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor and Rice, but I don't think I've heard of the North Texas football team.

[CMJ]

It's cause we've been so bad for so long...though we're the 3rd largest University in Texas.

[JonathanLB]

I don't think Florida would have to lose for Oregon to be ranked second, even if Miami won out.

Oregon is, first of all, a far superior team, but second, they were ranked 4th in the BCS ABOVE Florida except that U of O didn't play and because of this BS with quality of opponent and whatnot, Florida moved ahead in points. They can easily lose that edge even if they win the rest of their games. So Oregon doesn't have to rely on Florida losing.

I think Oregon has an amazingly good chance of being in the National Championship game, at least compared to their chances just a little while ago. All of the sudden, both Nebraska and OU are out of it, so really it should have been Miami and Oregon at #1 and #2. The rankings a few weeks ago were: Nebraska, Miami, OU, and Oregon. So with OU and Nebraska gone, U of O is the second best team.

Tennessee? Texas?! Ha! Neither team should be up there with Oregon. It's a matter of whose one loss is the most impressive defeat. Oregon wins hands down. Loss to a very good Stanford team all the while scoring 42 points and losing by only one TD late in the game. Nebraska got beaten by a good team, but BADLY slaughtered. Plus, Stanford is better and better ranked than CU. OU, forget them, they are not so good this season and certainly didn't deserve to be ranked 3rd with their one loss. U of O is much better, especially offensively.

I think Harrington is without a doubt the best player in college football right now. I have watched these other QB's competing for the spot supposedly and a few of them are good, a few are not that good at all but have a good team around them, etc. Miami's QB? He's no good. He's decent for college and he gets the job done, but he'll never make it in the NFL. He's too short, he's not effective enough, but he does have a great offensive line. That's just not good enough to make him a great quarterback in actuality, though. Nebraska's QB is cool, I like him, but he's still way worse than Harrington. Any sports writer who honestly thought or still thinks Crouch is better than Joey Harrington is totally naive and biased against the PAC-10 (which is true of MOST media outlets!).

The PAC-10 is the hardest division around with only a few very lousy teams, all the rest are competitive and quite good teams.

Regardless of the Heisman, ONE quarterback this year is most likely to succeed in the NFL and that is without any doubt in any intelligent person's minds: Joey Harrington. There is no other QB even close to as skilled or as capable of going on to the pros.

[Jedieb]

Go Mean green!
Congrats CMJ, so what bowl will they be playing in? The Ivory Soap.com Bowl?

Miami really pasted Wasington. They were as dominating as Colorado was and right now I don't see ANYONE in the country playing better football. I don't think the Hokies stand much of a chance against them this weekend. :(

[CMJ]

...Jedieb. It's December 18th...will be on ESPN 2 and starts the bowl season off. As for the National championship game...it will be Miami vs Florida if they both win out...no question. Jon is naive if he thinks Oregon will play in it even if Florida wins out. If they lose the Ducks could go...but thats the only way.

[Figrin D'an]

We should have a few answers later today when the latest BSC rankings come out, but I have to agree, Miami and Florida control the Rose Bowl slots right now. If Florida wins out, they'll be in. Florida plays Tenessee next week (another Top 10 team) and likely Auburn in the SEC Title game. Oregon only plays one more game, against a rather disappointing Oregon State team. The Gators have the edge in the polls right now, and as long as they win, the quality win component and the victorys will make them a lock for Pasadena.

If Texas beats Colorado in the Big 12 title game, they'll have the edge over Oregon, even if Oregon does win the Civil War game. A Florida loss would give the #2 spot to either Texas or Oregon, and if both win, Texas has the edge. Oregon would then need Miami to lose in Blacksburg to have a shot at the Rose Bowl.

The really funny thing is if Miami, Florida, Tenessee, Texas and Oregon all stumble, Nebraska would suddenly jump back into the mix...

Miami looks incredible right now. Granted, they were looking for revenge against Washington, but they completely destroyed a very good Huskie team. If the Hurricanes have that same fire heading into Blacksburg, Virgina Tech is going to get pasted, no matter how well they play.


The Heisman race has been rather boring this year, IMO. If Miami wins out, Dorsey will probably win, unless he has another 4 interception game to close the season. Crouch stills deserves some major consideration, but the loss to Colorado hurts his chances. Harrington has played well, and has led his team to some impressive come-back wins. Rex Grossman has put up monstrous stats, but the voters won't give the trophy to a sophomore.

One more weekend for most teams. Should be a fun one to watch.

[CMJ]

Actually if Tennessee beat Florida and the SEC title game they might play in the Rose Bowl because their Strength of Schedule will be improved massively....

[Figrin D'an]

The latest BCS standings are out. Here they are:

1) Miami 2.92
2) Florida 6.95
3) Texas 8.77
4) Nebraska 10.48
5) Oregon 10.87
6) Tennessee 11.87
7) Colorado 18.06
8) Illinois 20.45
9) Oklahoma 21.68
10) Stanford 22.04
11) Maryland 24.61
12) BYU 25.49
13) Washington St. 27.25
14) Washington 36.32
15) Georgia 37.13

[CMJ]

The losers of the Texas/Colorado & Tennessee/Florida games will probably fall fairly far, don't you think? Of course the only reason OU fell as far as it did was because they lost to a 4-7 squad....

[Jedi Master Carr]

I am hoping that Miami and Florida both lose one more game because I think the BCS system is a mess and I want it to be seen as it is stupid so maybe they can realize that the only way to decide a national championship is a playoff system. Because really if the Miami loses they are shut out which is not entirely right and Texas and Oregon both need a prayer to have a chance which is unfair to, if we had a playoff system I think anybody could win it and that would be the best situation.

[CMJ]

See I just don't know how they'd come up with a "fair" playoff system. I actually like the BCS(for now anyways).

[Jedi Master Carr]

There will never be a completely fair system because look at the NCAA tournament it is the best playoff system I think in exist because it is so exciting and it is not fair, every year there is at least one team that think they deserve a chance to be in it. Now I don't think we need to go with the number of teams that they have I would take the 8 teams, it just seems the best number to me at least. And there are two ways to come up with the 8 I think it should be by conference there are 6 power conferences (7th if you want to count the wac) I would say each conference winner gets a bid and then you have one or two wild cards (depending on if you want to count the wac. Then you use the bowl games as playoff sites with the sites rotating ever year (to keep the sponsers happy), the other way, Jedieb's plan as he is the one who suggested is where we have top 8 teams in the BCS gets in and that is how they decided the order 1 plays 8 and so on. Now either way works for me, I just like a playoff better and to me it looks stupid that NCAA football is the only major sport that does not play some kind of playoff.

[JonathanLB]

Oregon is clearly a better team than Nebraska and has not been blown out one game this season, yet the BCS ranks them behind the retarded Nebraska losers? What is up with that?!

There is far too much BS in the BCS (take the C out and there you have it). There should be a playoff system and you certainly could make a fair one that actually worked at giving the national title to the best team. I still think Miami is probably the best team, but it's not even funny HOW MUCH BETTER Oregon is than the stupid Florida team. Miam is great, but Florida!?! Whatever! They have no place up there as far as they are. It's total Eastern bias as usual. NOBODY wants to see a stupid Miami vs. Florida game. That is utterly boring and those aren't the two best teams. Texas could kick Florida's butt anyday, so could Oregon, and probably even Tennessee too.

There is one undefeated team of importance (BYU doesn't count) and there is only one logical team that has ONE loss in the most impressive manner, which is U of O. Nebraska lost badly and shouldn't be ranked in the top 5 anymore, let alone #4. They lost to CU! Yes, CU is good, but Stanford is a better team and U of O barely lost to them while CU pounded -- no, raped -- Nebraska.

OU is just awful, forget them, two losses and especially losing to a lousy team like Oklahoma State. This just isn't their year. They were overrated anyway.

Losing to Stanford at the end of a game by 7 points is THE most impressive loss of any team with just one loss, therefore U of O should be #2. They're not. So hopefully a few more losses push the Ducks where they rightfully should be, in contention for the National Championship.

Oregon has some of the best football around, but too many of our players are leaving for California, which I think will stop soon. U of O and OSU are both way better than USC and UCLA, for instance. OSU has struggled, but they're still better than USC, and U of O is better than UCLA. Oregon has better football than those schools anyway, no use going down to Cali. to play. That's why I hope future Heisman candidate DJ Jackson from my Jesuit High School plays for U of O, hehe. DJ set a high school football record with 2,400 yards rushing in just one season, even though JHS got eliminated from the playoffs after the second game. DJ is the man. He'll be playing pro in five years, I predict.

Texas better lose, same with Florida, and all will be well after OU kicks Nebraska's butt hopefully, haha. The question is, which supposedly great team is worse, OU or Nebraska? They both look like total trash right now, but I think Nebraska is clearly the better team. I just hope they lose anyway and I hope OU gets mad about losing to such a pitiful team...

[Jedi Master Carr]

Oklahomha doesn't really stink they just played a bad game against their rival. Now their offense stinks this year they went way down offensively from what they had last year I guess the QB is the real difference there, Hybl stinks, White was a better QB but got hurt and was loss for the season. Still if they had beaten Oklahomha State they would have probably made it to the Rose Bowl. Regardless of that I agree with you Jon that a playofff system is a must. To me it would make college football exicting like the NCAA tournment. I just think the bowls are boring I don't watch most of them except for a couple on New Years, I just think the rest of them are absolute waste really a 6-5 team should not be rewarded by playing in a posteason game it just is ludicrious IMO. And Hey I went to Clemson who will be 6-5 and I don't think they deserve to play in a bowl game.

[CMJ]

Bowl games reward the little guy though. Conferences like the Mountain West with BYU(who is REALLY good BTW) will get shut out of a playoff system...at leat let them have the reward of a Bowl game. Hey my alma mater isn't in contention for a national title but we're going to out first Bowl in 42 years. I can't tell you how excited I am about it. Thats why I like the Bowls....

[Jedi Master Carr]

I understand that but then there is a compromise keep some bowls for these small teams, etc and then have a playoff system at the end of the year.

[Jedieb]

Someone mentioned the NCAA Basketball tournament as not being perfect. Nothing's perfect, but March Madness is as close to perfect as you can get. Some teams may get left out of the tournament, but has a LEGITIMATE contender ever been left out? Unfortunately for college football, you can't have 64 teams participating. The most you could feasibly have is 16. The very nature of basketball allows you to play dozens of games in a relatively short span of time. You can't ask a college football team to play 7 games in 2-4 weeks, that's insane. At the most you can have 4 MAYBE 5 weeks of a playoff system. That's where the open month of December comes into play. You then rotate the bowls just like they're doing with the BCS.

People love to rag on the BCS. But the sad truth is that it's BETTER than what we had before. With only the coaches and writers' polls we had the same arguments and the occasional split which resulted in 2 #1 teams at the end of the season. I think we'll eventually get a playoff system. 8 teams is a good place to start, 4 teams would be a decent place to start. Just keep rotating the chanmpionship game from major bowl to major bowl and everybody should be happy. Hell, when was the LAST time the Rose Bowl determined the National Championship? If it wasn't for the BCS they wouldn't see that kind of game for another 50 years!

[ReturnOfTheCB]

All I can say is I hope Texas keeps kicking ass...though that's about the only time you'll ever hear me say that...I just hope none of my fellow Ags read this and jump me :D (of course, the only reason I'm cheering for Texas is because they're still in it...) I guess I can hope someday that A&M will be there...whether or not it'll happen, I'm not sure, but I can always hope ;)

I must say, CMJ, I too am shocked that the UNT football team is winning this year...I have a friend up there now, I think...

It's safe to say though that until A&M learns how to play two halves of a football game, instead of just one (or two different quarters of the game), we're not going anywhere...I fail to see how in the 5th largest university in the nation, you can't find a team to play a full game...

[CMJ]

Well Jedieb...Michigan shared the title with Nebraska a few years ago(I think '97)...so the Rose Bowl helped decide the Championship that year.

[Jedieb]

Forgot about that one. CMJ, before that, when was the last time the rose Bowl figured so prominently? And what a coincidence that the last Rose Bowl to help decide a National Champioship helped produce a split. A split being another reason to favor a playoff system.

I anxiously await the emergence of the University of South Florida. At one time we were the largest State University in the country without a football team. Hopefully the Florida talent pool will make us respectable in a decade or two. Hopefully...

[CMJ]

Well Jedieb...South Florida BEAT us this year(28-10) so I have no good will towards you guys. :) As far as the previous Rose Bowl National Title significant game.... In '96(actually Jan 1st 1997) ASU lost the Rose Bowl. If Arizona Stae had WON the would have clinched the championship... Instead Florida beat Florida Stae to win the title.... (I'm a sports historian...try to stump me) :P

[Jedieb]

Apparently I don't need to stump you because the mighty South Florida Bulls already did! :P Oh wait, they 'stomped' you, not stumped you, sorry about that, my mistake. I don't follow college football as closely as baseball or the NFL so I was really hitting you up for some Bowl info. Hey, do you happen to know if my USF deadbeats got a bowl bid? I've really got no clue how they're doing this year.

[CMJ]

USF has had a REALLY good year Jedieb. I don't think there chances for a Bid look good however because they're an Independent and most Bowls have contracts with conferences. If some of the BIG conferences(like the SEC for example) can't fill all there slots SF might sneak in. I believe they are 7-3...and should be favored in the finale to go 8-3.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I guess Florida's chances of a National Title have been reduced to rubble and now it leaves things in a huge mess. Tennesse(according to ESPN) has the inside track to play in the Rose Bowl but they still have to play Auburn to get there. Oregon I guess would have the next shot regardless of what happens between Colorado and Texas (If Texas wins they actually hurt themselves because Colorado would fall out of the BCS top 10 and they would lose points from beating them twice and would fall behind Oregon and Tennesse). Now I think this is mess (at least I got half my wish if VA Tech had made that 2 point conversion maybe I would hae got the whole thing :mad) Still how could one pick between Texas, Tennesse and Oregon? They have all lost one game they each play in a tough conference and have beated great teams and then there is Illinois and Maryland who have also lost one game each. This is a huge mess and this is exactly why I think there should be some form of a playoff system.

[Darth23]

I was really looking forward to seeing Miami crush Florida in the Rose Bowl.

"Still how could one pick between Texas, Tennesse and Oregon? They have all lost one game they each play in a tough conference and have beated great teams and then there is Illinois and Maryland who have also lost one game each"

The Pac Ten is a tough conference? :p

[Jedi Master Carr]

Hey the Pac-10 is tough, Oregon had to play Standford, (which had a great year) Washington, Washington St, UCLA, Arizona among others, it is really hard to go undefeated in that conference because every team is so well balanced. The Pac-10 I'd say is either the second or third toughest conference in Football, I think the Big 12 is the toughest IMO (Colorado and Texas are battling it out for it now but Nebraska and OU have great teams just had bad breaks) then there is the SEC which is very balanced IMO and Tennesse is probably their best team any team that can beat Florida in the Swamp has to be good.

[JonathanLB]

Yeah, hello Darth?!?!

Someone here doesn't follow College football.

The PAC-10 is EASILY the hardest conference in college football! I mean, I hope you were joking when you put that question mark there.

Washington State was a GREAT team this year, Washington was tough (although they folded the other week), UCLA was a tough team for six games and since then had some trouble, but they are a very capable team and nearly beat Oregon. OSU is even a strong team and especially in the last few weeks have played amazingly well. Stanford was awesome and although U of O nearly won, Stanford just played too well that game and Oregon's D was terrible. Their offense was awesome, but when you let up 49 points you are going to lose 95% of the time or more.

I think U of O is the best remaining team, although I think CU and Tennessee are close.

Florida never deserved to be placed up there. It was NOT an upset for Tenn. to beat them. It was just what should have happened. The better team won. Florida was overrated by far and almost any top team could kick them all over the field. Oregon, CU, Miami, Tennessee, Stanford could kill them even.

Also, Texas is TERRIBLE! Forget about them. CU is killing them and they really, really look awful. U of O has not looked bad all year. They've won every game but one and they were leading that by 14 with about 8 minutes to go, they just gave it up on D. Texas is looking just downright horrid.

I think there is still a chance for the Ducks to be second, but obviously Tennessee MUST lose next week vs. LSU (not Auburn...). LSU is winning their game.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah unless Major Appellight makes a major comeback you can count out Texas. Also I agree with you Jon about Florida that were overrated Tennessee was the better team and I guess I was wrong about Auburn, I figured Auburn could hand LSU I was mistaken there. I don't think Tennessee will lose but hey I didn't think Nebraska and Oklahoma would lose either.

[Jedieb]

The ball hit him in the damn chest! :mad

Miami did it again. It did what Florida, Tenn. , Nebraska, Oregon, Texas and a few others couldn't; it pulled out a close game it could easily have lost. Colorado looks like it's going to beat Texas. There's one team that I don't think anybody would like to face right now. With a playoff system you'd eventually have a 7th or 8th ranked team win it all, Colorado seems like they could be that kind of team this year. We'll never know though.

As for Florida, haven't we seen this show before? The Gators lose a big game on their way to a shot at a National title. For god's sake, Tenn. hadn't beaten them at the Swamp in DECADES! All this did was spare Spurrier the beating the Hurricanes surely would have given them in the Rose Bowl. Who knows who'll end up losing to Miami in the Rose Bowl now. But whoever it is they'll be 3-4 schools moaning about not getting their chance. And they'll each have right to complain.

[Figrin D'an]

It appears that Tennessee now controls the second Rose Bowl slot, although we'll have to wait until Monday for the BCS rankings to come out. The SEC title game next weekend will likely get high ratings next week, just by the virtue of how many teams it might affect... it seems that if the Vols beat LSU, they'll be playing for the national title. If they lose, it'll fall to either Oregon or Nebraska. Nebraska still holds a slim lead over Oregon in the BCS right now... Oregon really didn't play all that well today, even though they won. If Nebraska is still ahead of Oregon in the BCS standings on Monday, which seems likely, the Ducks are pretty much screwed... even if the Vols were to lose to LSU, Nebraska would then jump back into the #2 slot.

The other thing that is really messed up now is the BCS at-large bids. The following teams are already in by automatic bids:

Colorado
Illinois
Maryland
Miami
Oregon

The winner of Tennessee/LSU will get the other automatic bid.

After the final BCS standings are in place, it seems as though Nebraska and Florida will get the remaining slots.

So, for the BSC bowls, how about this lineup?

Fiesta Bowl:
Illinois vs. Oregon

Sugar Bowl:
Florida vs. Nebraska

Orange Bowl:
Maryland vs. Colorado

Rose Bowl:
Miami vs. Tennessee


Those would all be some good games, although I'm not sure anyone would want to play Colorado right now... their running game is in the zone... I'm not sure anyone can stop them up front.

[Figrin D'an]

Quick update... ESPN is reporting that, according to their own BCS gurus, both Oregon and Colorado cannot get into the Rose Bowl because Nebraska will remain ahead of them in the new BCS standings. They are projecting the new BCS top 5 as follows:

1) Miami
2) Tennessee
3) Nebraska
4) Oregon
5) Colorado

[CMJ]

Well I haven't posted a whole heck of alot about this whole end of season stuff. But you'd b hard pressed to find a bigger college football fan than myself. So....I'll give some thoughts on just about everything that I saw today. :)

First of all....the best rivalry in college football Army-Navy. Wow...I got chills watching the pre and post game stuff. If you don't then you're not an American.

The Miami VT game wwas great stuff. I thought the canes had the game in hand and all the sudden Beamer ball almost killed'em.
The Canes though just found a way...kinda like OU last year. Ya gotta like them in the Rose Bowl.

The Tennessee Florida game was a classic. The 2 teams were evenly matched at went 15 rounds against each other.... It was beautiful. Grossman was wonderful even in defeat. Tennessee will play Miami if they can win the SEC title game.

Oregon-OSU was another great game. I really feel like OSU outplayed the Ducks. Special teams just killed'em. Great rivalry game though.... Oregon has no shot at the Rose Bowl I'm afraid...even if Tennesse falls I think their small margin of victory over a 5-6 OSU team will kill it in the computers and Nebraska will go.

CU-UT. All I can say is I think Colorado may be the best team in the nation right now other than Miami. Texas....well...I've thought Applewhite should've played all year...:)

BYU....man they are escape artists. I've seen them play several times this year. They deserve a BCS game if they can beat Hawaii(though they probably won't get one). Much like Miami...they just find ways to win. I continue to be impressed by them.

The Heisman is TOTALLY up for grabs. If I could vote I'd give it to Roy Williams of Oklahoma.

I might post more thoughts later...:)

[JonathanLB]

Oregon still has a statistical chance -- Tenn. must lose.

[Darth23]

I'd just like to say that being an American and supporting militarism are not the same thing - nor should they be.

[JonathanLB]

Ok... well thanks for that Darth. :)

Hahaha.

[Jedieb]

Originally posted by Darth23
I'd just like to say that being an American and supporting militarism are not the same thing - nor should they be.

What the hell? What does that have to do with feeling a sense of pride over the young men who played in the Army Navy game or any displays that were part of the game? Those kids aren't going off to the pros or NFL Europe anytime soon. They've got military obligations to fulfill. That game is about as pure as college football gets anymore. You won't see too many weasel agents hustling young clients there.

I'd love it if everyone one of those kids on the field and in the stands spent the next four years in cushy stateside tours where the most dangerous thing they did was patrol a harbor or provide disaster relief for the next big flood. But they've got work to do and a few of those kids probably won't live to see the end of the decade. And they're taking these risks WILLINGLY. So I'll tip my hat to them. If the president can recognize the Army Navy game as a symbolic event and show up to toss the coin then I don't see anything wrong with feeling a sense of patriotism during an Army Nave game.

One more thing, Navy BLOWS, GO ARMY!!!!!!!!!! :D

[Jedi Master Carr]

Actually Oregon's point difference won't hurt them because they took margin of victory out of the BCS that really leaves the polls and they are interesting at that here is the Coaches
1Miami
2 Tenn
3 Oregon
4 Nebraska
5 Colorado
AP
1 Miami
2 Tenn
3 Oregon
4 Colorado
5 Nebraska

The biggest difference is that Nebraska is 5 in the AP this could be important if the BCS has them ranked 3rd and then Tenn loses to LSU having Nebraska play Miami but the AP poll and probably the coaches the poll would have Oregon ahead of them and Colorado would be ahead of them in the AP poll, of course this is all speculation but what if Nebraska was then able to beat Miami, in the coaches poll it would not be a problem because Nebraska would be crowned champ but in the AP they have two teams ahead of them and it is not automatic that they would pick Nebraska, lets say Colorado trounces Maryland and Oregon handles Illinoins the AP poll might have the finall poll look like this 1Oregon
2Colorado
3Nebraska
4Miami

That would be a huge mess because the BCS champ would be 3rd in the AP poll and wouldn't not be crowned champ by the AP and you would basically have a split National championship and it would show the BCS is very flawed. Now of course the BCS could reflect the polls and have Oregon 3rd which makes the most sense. Really though Nebraska should not be considered for the game over Colorado to begin with, Colorado trounced them and should that count for something.

[CMJ]

I lovee the fact that the Navy alma Matter ends with them saying "Beat Army!" It's great. Ya gotta love bitter rivals like that....:) But just all the pomp and circumstance that surrounds the game. The schools exchanging their "prisoners"....the 2 academies marching in....the way those games are SO hard fought....the 2 teams standing side by side during each alma mater. Man it's wonderful......sorry Darth...it is. This isn't about supporting "militarism"...it's about all thats right with U.S. college athletics.

[JonathanLB]

Colorado is a scary team. They are so much better than they were earlier, too. I think they could beat basically anyone. Man, they are tough!

Nebraska is such an inferior, overrated team. First off, Crouch for Heisman?!?!? LOL. He is not one of the top three best QB's, let alone the best. He's not even that great. He is good, at best. I like him and I'd like to see him in the NFL so maybe he can improve further, but Harrington and Car are both better, plus Miami's QB...

I'd be happy to see Carr of Fresno State win, or Harrington of Oregon, anything else would piss me off. Harrington is the best QB in college football and when he makes the pros he will prove that too.

I think Oregon is the second best team in college football, behind Miami, which is very awesome, but beatable I think. I still think Miami beats whoever they play, though...

I think Tennessee will obviously be in the Rose Bowl IF they win next week. If they lose, I think Oregon will make it. Nebraska just should not be there. There is no way they should be playing for a national championship after getting annihilated by CU. Oregon barely got beaten by Stanford, which is a very good team just like CU with only two losses, yet CU killed Nebraska.

[Figrin D'an]

It's unfortunate that a lot of really great players will not even have a shot at the Heisman... Antwaan Randle El, Roy Williams, Julius Peppers, Adrian Peterson...
The voters are stuck on QBs from the major contending programs this year, which just goes to show that most of the Heisman voters don't really know college football all that well, much less know who the nation's best players are... very sad... this is the reason why the Heisman is the most overated, overhyped award in sports. The voting will likely be split mostly between Ken Dorsey, Eric Crouch, and Joey Harrington, with Rex Grossman coming in 4th... and some of the players I mentioned above don't have a chance because they are defensive players (Peppers and Williams), played for a team with a losing record (Randle El), or didn't play in Divison 1 (Peterson)...

If I had a vote... I would probably vote for Antwaan Randle El. To steal a phrase from a well-known comentator, he's 'Houdini on a football field.' He can play, and has played, 5 different postions for his team (quarterback, wide receiver, running back, punter, punt/kick returner) and had more combined yards than anyone else in the nation, by far. (And this wasn't even his best year, last year was!)

'k... enough of all the BCS and Heisman garbage... bring on the bowl season! :)

[Darth23]

I don't recall saying anything about the peopel attending West Point or Annapolis. I was responding to THIS:



First of all....the best rivalry in college football Army-Navy. Wow...I got chills watching the pre and post game stuff. If you don't then you're not an American.


It really annoys me when people try do define what is or is not an 'American' this way.

[Jedieb]

I don't think CMJ was was being literal or presenting anyone with a definition of what beng an American is. It sounded to me like a phrase of speech. I just think he was making a point about the game being a powerful symbol of patriotism. I don't think that it would be a stretch to say that the last time the Army Navy game took on this much meaning was during Desert Storm. When exactly was the last time a President flipped the coin at the Army Navy game? Has a President ever done that?

It's not about being militaristic. You know what I like most about the President flipping the coin? That the highest ranking member of the Armed Forces started the game. And he's a CIVILIAN, not some dirt bag military dictator.

I certainly didn't mean to imply that anyone was "un-American." Just reiterating that a bunch of rowdy sports fans in uniform and sporting crew cuts isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well the BCS standings are out and here they are
1Miami
2Tenn
3 Nebraska
4 Colorado
5 Oregon

I guess Oregon has no chance now of going to the Rose Bowl, but according to ESPN, they still have a chance at the National Title, though just a share. If Tenn loses sending Nebraska to the Rose Bowl and then Oregon wins in the Fiesta Bowl and then if Nebraska beats Miami, there will be a split national title because Nebraska is ranked 5th in the AP poll and in the AP poll anybody can be #1 at the end of the year. Because if all this happens by the BCS game Nebraska probably will still be 4th and beating Miami will not give them enough votes to catapolt them above two teams: Cololado (assuming they win) and Oregon. If that happens they will be no higher than 2nd maybe even third with Oregon getting crowned by the AP. If this happens (which I hope it does) I think people will now see that the BCS is very flawed and that they only way to solve this problem is by having a playoff system.

[Jedieb]

Even if there's a split in the polls, won't the Sears Trophy go to the team with the lowest BCS score? Wouldn't that mean that the title would be split in the polls but one team would be crowned in the eyes of the BCS?

[Jedi Master Carr]

I couldn't answer that question, I'm not really sure really, but even if they won the sears trophy Oregon would have every right to say they were #1 in that scenerio because they AP declared them #1 speaking of this mess, Dan Patrick has something interesting to say here is the link
http://espn.go.com/talent/danpatrick/s/2001/1203/1289169.html

He makes a lot of good points and I agree with him College Football needs a playoff system and the current mess with the BCS proves it.

[Jedieb]

That was a good article. A Tenn. loss would make a mess of things. The BCS computers love Nebraska, but no one else does. It would be hard to imagine a Miami Nebraska game satisfying anyone outside of Nebraska.

[JonathanLB]

No kidding! Nebraska has no place in the national championship game.

Although I'd love to see Oregon be first place in the AP poll, I would hate to see an overrated, not that great team like Nebraska make it into a game they don't deserve to play versus a team that WILL show them a new meaning of pain and domination, lol.

Miami would kick their sorry butts so hard. Although, I hope I am wrong. I hope Tenn. loses, Nebraska wins, Oregon wins, and the AP puts Oregon first.

I don't think Oregon is the best team, though. I think Oregon is in the top three, though, so I disagree with the BCS rankings. I think either Oregon is 2nd behind Miami or they are third behind Miami and then CU. CU is just awesome lately... But what is with them being ranked so highly? That cannot make anyone happy but CU fans! They have lost TWO games, they have no place being above any team with only one loss except for BYU...

[Jedieb]

HOLY CRAP! With less than 2 minutes to go it looks like LSU is fullfilling every BCS critic's wildest dream. I think the team that deserves to face Miami is clearly Colorado. Over the last month Colorado and Miami have been the best 2 teams in the nation. But the computers are probably going to give it to Nebraska. Miami will slaughter them. Colorado looks like the only team that can get hot enough to give the Hurricanes a run for their money.
What a wild season!:crack

[Darth23]

:D

I agree. From what we've seen I think Colorado is the only team that might have achance against Miami.

It would be funny to see the Hurricanes destroy Oregon, though.... :p

[CMJ]

Ya gotta love college football...I know I sure as hell do. :)

Oh...and everyone wath the New Orleans Bowl on December 18th...where my Mean Green Eagles will destroy the Colorado State Rams. :) Oh...and look for me...I'm flying back home to goto that game!

[Jedi Master Carr]

I'm actually hoping that Nebraska wins, I know nobody will pick them but in this wild college football season, I am thinking anything is possible. But I am hoping for a split that is why I am hoping because if Nebraska wins they will only be #1 in one poll because the Ap will probably crown the winner of the Oregon-Colorado game and to think they said when they got the BCS that there wouldn't ever be any split championships.:p

[JonathanLB]

First, no, no team besides Miami would "destroy Oregon" -- don't kid yourself. Oregon is the second best team in the nation and only Miami could "destroy them." They weren't beaten by more than 7 points all season.

CU isn't more deserving than Oregon, so don't kid yourselves. People who do understand college football should realize that the best team THROUGHOUT the season deserves to play for the national championship against the second best team throughout the regular season.

CU may be THE BEST team in college football right now, but that doesn't matter. What matters is that they lost two games and Oregon had a better season than them, and is therefore more deserving of playing in the Rose Bowl. To put CU there would be a tragedy and a crock. The BCS, as Harrington said, is not working if CU can get into the Rose Bowl with two losses when far better teams are out there.

The BCS is just screwed up. Every coaches poll says Oregon should play Miami. Oregon was 3rd on both the USA Today and AP coaches polls, so with Tennessee's loss they should move into 2nd. The BCS is just so incredibly messed up that it has the Ducks still in 5th place, even below CU which is absurd!

I can't expect the BCS to get it right and I don't care what happens with that anyway, but I can hope for a more accurate representation of the best teams to choose Oregon as first. If Nebraska beats Miami in the Rose Bowl, then Oregon beats CU, Oregon will rank first in the AP poll.

[Darth23]

That's because strenght of schedule matters, and the Ducks play those wimpy Pac 10 teams. ;)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Hey the Pac 10 is considered by many to be the second toughest conference after the Big 12, what happens is that the teams all beat up on each other because the conference is so good top to bottom.

[CMJ]

I would say the SEC is the 2nd strongest conference...but thats just me. :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think the Pac-10 is underrated, it has Oregon, Washington St, Stanford, and Washington that are all great teams, UCLA played great for most of the season though they fell apart towards the end. Really the only terrible teams are Califorinia, and USC. The SEC I think is overrated thought that is just my opinion, really other than Florida, Tennessee, and maybe LSU the rest of the conference is just average. SC and Georgia probably couldn't beat Standford and Washington but this of course is just my opinion.

[JonathanLB]

Again, I seriously hope you are kidding Darth because if not, that just shows your ignorance of college football.

The PAC-10 is the strongest conference in football and that is why the Ducks deserved to be second in the BCS rankings. They were second in every other poll, so obviously something is wrong.

If Washington State had beaten Washington and then UCLA just could have won another game, the Ducks would currently be going to the Rose Bowl. Their strength of schedule would be significantly higher and that would be enough to do it. It's not the Ducks fault that those stupid teams lost.

LOL, PAC-10 a weak conference?! What football league are YOU watching?!?!? Man, wake up!!!

[CMJ]

Jon, I think you may be a bit of a homer. :) I'd rate the PAC-10 as the 3rd strongest conference. Again...every one of us would probably rank the conerences in a different order...:) We could all argue till we're blue in the face and it wouldn't accomlish anything.

Go Mean Green! Saw the horns off the CSU RAms!
Scap'em Eagles!

[Darth23]

Well I was kidding a bit, but lets face it, when was the last time a Pac 10 team won the national championship? The only reason the Rose Bowl is deciding the National Championship is because the BCS took it away from the Pac-10/Big-10 this year. :D

I'd say the SEC, Big 10(11) and Big 12 are ahead of the Pac 10. I think several Big East teams would do well against the P10 teams also. (And Georgia would KILL Stanford :p :p)

It seems like there's usually only 1 Pac 10 team in the top 5, or 10 even, usually Washington.

Look at the conferences that have won the National Championship in the last 20 years:

2000 - Oklahoma - Big12
1999 - FSU - ACC
1998 - Tennesee - SEC
1997 - Michigan/Nebraska - Big10/Big 12
1996 - Florida - SEC
1995 - Nebraska - Big 12
1994 - Nebraska - Big 12
1993 - FSU - ACC
1992 - Alabama - SEC
1991 - Washington/Miami - Pac-10/(Indy?)Big East (ok, that's 1, a split championship)
1990 - Colorado/Georgia Tech - Big 12(8)/ACC
1989 - Miami - Ind. (Big East)
1988 - Notre Dame - Indy
1987 - Miami - Ind. (Big East)
1986 - Penn State - Ind.(Big 10)
1985 - Oklahoma- Big 8 (Big 12)
1984 - BYU - WAC
1983 - Miami - Ind. (Big East)
1982 - Penn State Ind. (Big 10)
1981 - Clemson - ACC
1980 - Georgia - SEC
1979 - Alabama - SEC
1978 - Alabama/USC - SEC/Pac-10 (ok, that's 2 - another split championship)

I could go throught he 70's and 60's to pull up a few more USC championships, but I'm not feeling gracious. :p

So for the last 23 years we have:

S.E.C. - 6 (1 split) (Four different teams)
Big 12 - 6 (1 split) (Three different teams)
A.C.C. - 4 (1 split) (Three different teams)
Big East - 4 (1 split) (Miami)
Big 10 - 3 (1 split) (Two different teams)
[b]Pac 10 - 2 (2 split) (Two different teams)

Sorry, but I've seen too many years when UCLA losses like 3 or 4 games then rallys to win the Pac 10 championship and get to the Rose Bowl.

I don't know anything about the Pac 10's non conference (non WAC) performance, I just remember FSU playing ASU, Arizona and USC and not really having much of a problem with them.


Does anyone know how the conferences have done in bowl games the last decade or two? Or last few years, even?

[CMJ]

Hmmm the last few years the SEC has been pretty strong I think. Not sure about the other conferences.. I might do some checking for ya Darth...:)

[Darth23]

Mostly it seems like the all the conferences do fair - around .500 more or less, I know it seems like a lot of ACC teams lose in the bowl games the last few years.

[Jedieb]

So according to your numbers the Pac 10 hasn't won an outright national title in 23 years? That's not something to brag about. Take Miami out of the Big East and they've got nothing to brag about either. By those numbers, the S.E.C., Big 12, & A.C.C. have been the toughest conferences. They've produced multiple National Champs which means year after year those teams have to battle each other.

I was thinking about JMC's dream earlier. A Nebraska win would give Colorado a piece of the title. But since I don't think they could have beat the Hurricanes in the first place I don't see enough of a reason to root for them.

[Darth23]

I cheer for the ACC, but without FSU they're mostly nothing. Georgia Tech and Clemson really haven't been that good since FSU joined the conference. Before this year, one team would jump up and surprise FSU every couple of years. Florida and Miami have traditionally been FSU's only real competition. It was hard for FSU to ever beat both teams in the same year. Too bad they don't play each other.... anymore.

NC State, North Carolina, Clemson, GT, and Virginia have all occasionally been really good, but not consistently. Last year and the year before the Big Ten seemed overall pretty strong to me, I used to think they were overrated - actually I thnink the WERE overrated years ago.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Clemson's problems go back to when Danny Ford left they have never been the same since. Also, I think the Big 10 is worse than the Pac-10, especially this year only really Illinios (which had a very soft schedule) and Michigan are any good. Ohio State is up and down and the rest of the conference is pathetic really, so thats three good teams vs 5 for Pac-10. Now I admit the SEC vs Pac-10 thing is debatable like CMJ it depends on where you stand, people on the west coast (like Jon who have a better view of the Pac-10) see it different. Oh well at least there is one thing clear the Pac-10 is dominated in one sport Basketball, I think they have won more National titles than any other conference though to be fair most of them are by UCLA.

[JonathanLB]

It's hard to win a national championship when your own conference is beating the hell out of each other. The PAC-10 is consistently so tough that no team can go undefeated in it, much less be the best team in the nation.

The PAC-10 is much better now than it was in the past, though. This year I think it was the strongest conference or at least top two.

In the past, you had lousy Oregon and Oregon State teams, like way back twenty years ago. Now this year, UCLA was a great team for much of the season, then they imploded, USC played well and made key mistakes that cost them a couple of wins. Washington was still a strong team, Washington State ruled, Stanford was awesome (and could kill Georgia, thanks), Oregon dominated, and Oregon State was no pushover either towards the end of the season. There were only two bad teams, oh wait, and Cal. They suck hard. Arizona and Arizona State are the two main ones I was thinking. Usually those are good teams too, but this year, nope. Plus, it makes sense they cannot all be good teams if they play each other. I mean, the Arizona teams had to play much better PAC-10 teams and they just got annihilated.

Anyway, the PAC-10 is awesome. You got teams from sunny Southern California, then teams from green Oregon where you can drink water out of the tap (I never realized this was a big deal until I went to like 10 other states and realized all of your water is awful and undrinkable, including this California crap), then you have Arizona with great weather and hot girls too. The only questionable part is frickin' Washington. There are too many liberals up there, I mean really liberal, democrats are fine and don't bother me, but the super liberal people just scare me. There are lots of them in Eugene where the Ducks play too, unfortunately, those tree-hugging psychos.

I would like to go to every PAC-10 school for one semester. That'd be tight. Start out in cold and rainy, miserable Washington and go to Washington then Washington State, then down to Oregon and Oregon State, then to Stanford, UCLA, Cal. State, and USC, finally to Arizona and Arizona State. That way you could say you went to every PAC-10 school for college. You'd truly be a PAC-10 junkie. :)

I'm already going to be in college for five years assuming I choose to stay, because I'm on the 12 unit per semester program. It accomodates my outside of school activities better, so that is 10 semesters. I could have went to every PAC-10 school at that rate, damnit.

[Darth23]

"It's hard to win a national championship when your own conference is beating the hell out of each other. The PAC-10 is consistently so tough that no team can go undefeated in it, much less be the best team in the nation. "

Yeah, yeah, blah blha blah.

Talk to the National Championship Hand. ;)

The SEC always uses that excuse, but they still manage to win it regularly. I don't even LIKE the SEC, but I do recognize that they tend to have a lot of very strong teams.



"There are too many liberals up there, I mean really liberal, democrats are fine and don't bother me, but the super liberal people just scare me"


The word is PROGRESSIVE.

Boo.

:D

[CMJ]

Yeah look at the SEC West. In the 10 years of the SEC title game 5 different schools have claimed that division(only Ole' Miss hasn't). The SEC East is dominated by Florida and Tennessee though. Of course I could see Georgia or s. carolina winning that division one of these years. Kentucky and Vandy are lost causes...:)

[Darth23]

"Kentucky and Vandy are lost causes"

Kentucky occasionally tries to be the underdog that upsets the big teams. Vandy could always pull a Northwestern.... some day, maybe.

[CMJ]

Uhhh tommorrow night is the New Orleans Bowl...I'm leaving for the game today. I cannot wait until kickoff(well the pregame stuff'll be fun too!).

Scrap'em Eagles!
Go Mean Green!

[Darth23]

Who the heck IS North Texas anyway? :P

I know Colorado State - they're on ESPN like every other Thursday. ;)

[CMJ]

Well I get home later this afternoon in LA. Even though my boys lost I had one helluva time in the Big Easy and at the game! It was one of the best experiences of my life...I hope we make it back to a Bowl in a much speedier fashion than this last one(we just broke a 42 year drought).

[JonathanLB]

Speaking of water, draughts, etc...

In Portland now, it has rained 32 days in a row. No I didn't just make a typo and put the 2 after the 3 when I meant 3. 32 days. That is two away from an all time record in this state, at least as far back as recorded history goes! LOL. I am pulling for us to break the record because goddamnit if we made it this far, we had better break that sucker!

Hey did you guys catch the ESPN VCS bowl special?

Basically, the ESPN made up the "VCS" and it was the Virtual Championship Series I believe, i am sure you can find it on espn.com still. I saw it on th ESPN station actually.

Ok so here is what they did...

They took real computers that had all of the college team stats on them and they placed the top 8 teams in the (real) AP rankings against each other, simulating a playoff. This wasn't just made up, it literally ran through on these computers and there are exact scores for each simulated game, including what points were scored in what quarter, what the quarterly scores were, halftime score, who scored what points, what QB threw to what receiver, etc. It has everything documented.

So here is what happened:

In the first round, 1 vs 8, 2 vs 7, etc, and there were no upsets besides Nebraska (#4) getting beaten by Florida (#5).

In the following round, though, Miami plays Florida. Miami misses a two-point conversion at the end of the game and loses 31-29 to Florida, which advances to the national championship game.

Oregon plays CU for entrance into the title game. CU leads 30-14 in the 4th quarter, but Harrington and the Ducks come storming back with 29 fourth quarter points to beat CU 43-36 or 37 or something like that. (I saw this twice but it was about a week ago, so I am trying to remember it all).

That meant that Oregon went on to the national championship game to play Florida. The game was close, but Oregon defeats Florida in the title game and wins its first National Championship.

So according to these powerful computers, in a playoff situation, the Ducks would win the National Championship! :)

I thought that was quite awesome. Remember that when the Ducks are getting killed with one quarter left in the game, because Harrington is the comeback king and the Ducks will have to score 29 to win, hehe.

Go Ducks! :)