My Star Wars Dilemma!

[JonathanLB]

Since I have been a real Star Wars fan in 1997 (as in I actually considered myself a fan), I have never helped any film beat a Star Wars movie on the all-time list of top grossers. I never saw Titanic in theaters, I didn't see The Sixth Sense in theaters, and that is all so far.

Well, Harry Potter should be seen as a significant threat to ESB once again. If Lion King made $300+ mil, so can Harry Potter with much higher ticket prices. Toy Story 2 nearly did it, actually. Close call.

So, if the trailer for Episode II is online Thursday at the Official Site and in theaters Friday, do I avoid seeing Harry Potter and just watch the trailer online until it appears with another film, if ever, or do I see Harry Potter anyway because I have never missed seeing a Star Wars prequel trailer on opening day in theaters (November 1998, March 1999, October 2001).

Hmm...

I don't like to know that I had anything to do with a lame looking kiddie film like Harry Potter beating a masterpiece Star Wars film, but then again I want to be part of each Episode II experience. Plus, ESB will be re-released and Sixth Sense as well as about four to five other films will easily fall.

[darth_mcbain]

Go see it... It is fun to dicker about box office numbers, but that is all they are - box office numbers... Star Wars will always be in the upper echelon of films, no matter what the numbers say... I'm gonna go see HP and it won't bother me any.

[JMK]

Screw it. Go see it if it interests you. Star Wars won't be in the top 10 forever. Why not have some of them ousted now? I'd rather that than the alternative of being 75 years old and being one of those old men that drone on and on like "I remember when I was a young'un and and Star Wars ruled the box office top 10....now those were the days...".

[ReaperFett]

who cares about money? Its quality that matters

[Champion of the Force]

I don't like to know that I had anything to do with a lame looking kiddie film like Harry Potter beating a masterpiece Star Wars film.
WHO CARES??? Go see what you want. As long as you enjoy what you see, does it really matter whether it makes more money than something else?

I have seen Titanic, Sixth Sense et al and I have no real regrets at all. :)

[BUFFJEDI]

I love all you guys but,ARE YOU CRAZY???!!!??????
Do not go see it.I for one am foaming at the mouth to see any and all that has to do with EP2.But like with Titanic ,sixth sense,I would NOT go see it a the theater.I felt if I did I was betraying SW. I know that sounds CRAZY (hey it's me :D ) but I would not and NEVER will go see a movie (at the theater) that would pose a threat to SW box office $'s.Now of course I have seen Titanic (at home ) and it was a great movie as was Sith sense.



I would truely suggest do as I am. Wait about 1 month see how the box office gross is doing for potter if it's no threat to SW figures pay your 7 bucks watch the trailer and leave (thats my plan).of course if potter(and I feel it will) ends up being a bust (200-250)go see the trailer sooner.

[Mu Satach]

See what you want because in the end it doesn't matter because it's just not that important.

The truely important things in life are friends, family and those you love... not what movie has made the most money.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Jon, if you want to see it go see it, don't let the fear that it might oust a SW movie. Actually I doubt it will pass one of them, I'd say it makes between 225-275, I'm betting towards the lower end myself. Actually the only real threat to any of the SW movies I think is LOTR which I think will come close to 300 million, but I will not let that deter me in going to see it.

[BUFFJEDI]

Dang you Mu Satach , why'd you have to go and throw the truth in there;)

[Champion of the Force]

... but I would not and NEVER will go see a movie (at the theater) that would pose a threat to SW box office $'s
Further evidence that buff has finally gone mad. :lol

[Darth23]

Dang you Mu Satach , why'd you have to go and throw the truth in there

Does that mean that this week's episode of the Box Office Brady Bunch is over? :)


Go see the damn movie! That way you can rant and rail louder about how badly it sucks when it passes ANH. :D


Right now I'm thinking that it will make about 250 million, more or less. I think the openign will be big (maybe you should wait until next week ;)), but I don't think it will be the Gigantic Phenomenon at the box office everyone is predicting.


Of course JAWS was a very popular book and look what happened to THAT movie. (It was the first modern Blockbuster) :uhoh

[BUFFJEDI]

:lol



did I miss pick on Buff day, on my calander:uhoh

[JonathanLB]

First, Mu, if we were talking about the new John Woo film, then it is one thing, but we are talking about STAR WARS. That is one of the most important things on earth, bar none. So yes friends and family are nice, but Star Wars is like a religious faith. Just because you like your friends and love your family doesn't mean you don't keep the faith...

:)

"Star Wars won't be in the top 10 forever."

Umm... I wouldn't be so sure. I think it will be there nearly forever, the first one that is. The Star Wars films will be continually re-released and although ANH will lose a spot here and there, it will gain them back just as it did in 1997. That was the most glorious day in modern Star Wars history, even more meaningful in many ways than TPM's opening day. I mean, February 21, 1997, STAR WARS: A NEW HOPE becomes the all-time highest grossing film and defeats E.T. Of course, this is overlooking the fact that after this Titanic came along. Sort of like watching an NFL player make a stunning catch, land on the ground, then get leveled by a massive hit that sends the player into a 1040 spin ;)

Ok the other points here. First, I have no desire to see Harry Potter. I think it looks utterly stupid. I never could get into the first book because the writing style is so poor that it actually bothers me. Whether or not the storytelling is good is hard to say as I haven't read far, so I assume it is quite good, but I can't stand this conversational form that Rowling writes in. To me, that just ruins any book.

So, the films would be perfect, no minimally skilled author ruining what could be a good storyline. Umm... except that the film looks like it is made for three-year-olds and the acting looks terrible. It is very ho-hum. I hope it provides no threat to Star Wars, but because of this whole Harry Potter nonsense that reminds me of the Beany Baby craze, I am sure it will probably do very well.

Nobody will believe it makes less than $200 million (because it will make that much easily).

Also, it may not mean anything to YOU that one film has beaten another at the box office, and that is fine, I can't ask you to feel any particular way, but to me it makes a big difference. Why would I help the enemy, i.e. every other film, beat Star Wars? I only like films so long as they remain in their own realm and don't try to make too much money. If it's really that great and will make a ton, I'd rather rent it later and at least I will know I did the right thing. With a fanbase that just doesn't give a damn, it's very hard to get anything useful accomplished. If every Star Wars fan stayed away from films like Harry Potter, for instance, then it would make a real dent in the box office gross.

I agree with Buff on this one.

Nevertheless, I am still thinking I will probably go see the film just because I want to see that Episode II trailer in theaters. I will probably stand up and start clapping too, hopefully that will annoy any non-fans there that don't realize there is only ONE good reason for their movie even existing: to see the Star Wars trailer. Of course, the good reason for the studios is money. Other than that, it's a real loser of a film. I hear they paid the actors and actresses so little money they were making more on BBC specials. Haha, man. Sounds pitiful to me.

Now LOTR, there is a movie I will see because I actually do want to see it, and plus, it is not at all a threat to Star Wars. I am laughing that anyone considers that more of a threat than Harry Potter. The morons who see Potter are mostly kids who don't know better or who can't tell their parents in clear enough terms: this movie sucks and please do not take us. It's like how any animated film is always going to do well because the poor kids kick and scream but still can't get out of having their parents drag them to it.

LOTR is going to have to convince everyone to see it. There are too many morons who are like, "Gee, I am not into that whole fantasy thing, it looks boring to me." These people need to get lives, but that's besides the point. They obviously wouldn't know a good movie if it ran up and bit them in the butt. It's just like these retards who see a Star Wars trailer and say, "Hmm... more sci-fi nonsense. I prefer boring romance movies or shallow comedies because my brain prefers to be turned off at all possible times." LOTR is going to do well, but it is no threat to anything over $250 million. I would say if it makes $200 million that would be an incredible success and nobody should be disappointed with a solid $150-$175 million stateside.

Final point being: I am a Star Wars fan. As such, I have certain obligations and although other fans may not believe they have any obligation to anything, no loyalty to anything, that is their problem and not mine. I remain concerned with whatever best suits Star Wars and I like to stick with that. This means voting as many times as possible for Star Wars in any poll, for instance (hehe), and buying one copy of every Star Wars version ever released in hopes of breaking records, then seeing every Star Wars film in theaters at least a reasonable amount of times (three is not reasonable; I can do that in one day very easily and anyone should be able to do ten for sure).

[RHJediKnight]

The Lord of the Rings is the Star Wars of the literary world, even Harry Potter can't compare to it. The Fellowship of the Ring will top Harry Potter in overall gross, I guarantee it.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think LOTR will beat Harry Potter and will be the be a serious threat to make 300 mostly because it is going to be released at slow time of the year with little serious competition. What I believe is it will open big maybe 75-100 in the first 5 days and then word of mouth will make it get to 300 that is just my opinion but that is what I see happening.

[Champion of the Force]

LOTR is going to have to convince everyone to see it.
Proclaimed 'Book of the Century' in 1997.

One of the biggest selling novels over the past 50 years.

Booksellers such as Amazon are reporting that the novels have been selling like hotcakes ever since the first trailers appeared.

Call me optimistic, but I think there's already an audience there. :)


I would say if it makes $200 million that would be an incredible success and nobody should be disappointed with a solid $150-$175 million stateside.
I agree with this. By making all 3 films together they've effectively halved the price of making them, and as such don't need a record fortune to break even. I would be hoping for at least $150 million in the US, though I would love it to break $200 million if possible.


Final point being: I am a Star Wars fan. As such, I have certain obligations and although other fans may not believe they have any obligation to anything, no loyalty to anything, that is their problem and not mine.
You have your priorities, and I have mine. I have only seen a handful of films more than once at the cinema (TPM holds the record at 3 viewings for me - 1 too many IMHO). If Episode II is good I would probably see it twice but unlikely any more.

[JonathanLB]

I cannot imagine you saying you will see Episode II TWO times, though. I mean Neil and I plan to see it ten times in the opening week alone. I imagine I will get to 60 viewings at least this time, maybe 70.

Anything short of 20 would be a crime, though. lol.

I mean, TWO times?! Dude, I saw THE ONE two times. I saw Tomb Raider two times. You don't see a Star Wars movie two times if you're a fan. That's just not enough to know everything about the film. If you really don't care that much then fine, but you can't be like, "I am a huge Star Wars fan and I love the saga" when you see the movie two times.

I suppose if you read the novel about 10 times and read about the movie on forums and then looked at pictures you might be able to learn whatever you missed in seeing it only two times, but Star Wars films are designed to be seen time and again. I saw TPM 50 times and I continued to notice new things and appreciate it in new ways each time I saw it.

The best thing to do is discuss the film on the forums, then go see it again, then discuss, then see it a few more times, etc. Repeat process until you feel you know everything you can reasonably learn.

But hey, I mean it's your money and time. No reason seeing it more times than you want obviously.

The Lord of the Rings books are probably the greatest fantasy books ever and Tolkien is really a great writer, not just a great storyteller (and he is that too!). So, I really hope LOTR kicks some Harry Potter @$$, but I just see all of these little kiddies and I keep thinking they are going to push the scales to favor Harry Potter and the Moronic Stupid Stone or whatever it is officially called.

[darth_mcbain]

I wonder how the movie's length will affect its success. It looks like HP will run about 2:32, which is pretty long for a kids movie. Personally I don't mind a movie that long, but it could lead to kids getting restless if there are long sequences which aren't that interesting. It could also affect the rewatchability factor. Granted, it isn't for really little kids, like some Disney flicks, but it is still aimed at a younger demographic, and that might be a tad on the long side. I wonder if the story is such that it needs to be that long, or if it suffered from bloat (they couldn't decide what to cut, so they left it all in...) Just have to wait and see.

[Darth23]

I mean, TWO times?! Dude, I saw THE ONE two times. I saw Tomb Raider two times.

:lol

[Doc Milo]

Well, the fact that Harry Potter is aimed more at kids may lend to a decline in its repeated viewings. If there is really nothing in there for the parents, how many are going to take their kids to repeat viewing after repeat viewing?

Harry Potter, though, is more than just a kids story, so it will get some repeat viewing from older people. I've read all the Harry Potter books and I've enjoyed them. And I'm 32 years old!

They are no match, however, for the magic of the Lord of the Rings trilogy. As was pointed out, the Lord of the Rings trilogy already has a fanbase -- all the movie has to do is steer clear of disappointing that fanbase. If the movie makes a reasonable attempt at staying true to the novels, then it will have the repeat viewing it needs to challenge 300 million -- especially given the time of year and competition it will likely face.

[Champion of the Force]

I mean, TWO times?! Dude, I saw THE ONE two times. I saw Tomb Raider two times. You don't see a Star Wars movie two times if you're a fan. That's just not enough to know everything about the film. If you really don't care that much then fine, but you can't be like, "I am a huge Star Wars fan and I love the saga" when you see the movie two times.
As an unemployed, full-time student trying to complete a Diploma in time for next Easter as well as attempting another Diploma before the year is out, I don't really have the time, money or even urge to watch films again and again and again at the cinema, especially with the rising prices down under (thankyou Mr GST :rolleyes) and the fact I live on a farm a good 30-35 kms from the nearest city.

Perhaps you have the time and money to see a film 50 times, but I certainly don't. Thus far my highest record of films seen at the cinema was in 2000 - 12 films. That was more than the previous 5 years put together. And at the rate this year is going I'll probably manage 7 or 8 films if I'm lucky. The only reason why I'm seeing more films as of late is due to myself being in the city more doing my degree and thus having better access to the cinema.

Despite all that, do I consider myself 'a huge SW fan who loves the saga'? Certainly, else why would I dedicate to nearly 2 years of my life moderating a SW forum? :lol

Back to the topic at hand, I also think the success of LOTR will depend on how it meets the fansbase's expectations. I *finally* got to see the latest trailer and as a fan I'm very impressed, even if they have altered certain parts (like the dropping of the stone in the well - now it's the remains of a dead soldier :)).

[BUFFJEDI]

I didn't know you were a farm boy.thats pretty cool.:cool we have alot of farmers my way.BUT the smell OMG!!!anyhoo



I think Jon,in this (aspect) is alot like me .

I have always been a HUGE SW fan and I always judge other fans on MY level of commitment so to speak.For years (as I have stated before ) there was nothing but SW as far a I was concerned.If you didnt buy X amount of toys or go see a SW film X amount of times or you didn't know X amount of lines from the movies you were not a TRUE fan.But as I have gotten older I realize that Not all people can commit to that kind of thinking and doing.How many people can watch TPM 600 + times(ME)and still work,take care of kids/family etc.how many people can go out and spend 1,000's of dollars on a collection(I could at one time :( )
It's hard at this day and age.I still hold to some of those feelings about fans BUT I realize that what I feel should be staus qoe (spelled it wrong didnt I ?) Isn't. I just think Jon (my opinion) feels that SW should have the same Gusto about SW as he does.I do wish all SW fans were commited as Jon (or be commited:p )j/k
if they were TPM would be #1 not TITANIC:(

[JonathanLB]

You live far from a theater, that hurts (I know because when my local theater stopped showing the film the nearest one was 30 to 40 minutes away). You also are working hard on degrees. That hurts. You also have little money, again, that hurts.

I can't say you MUST see a film 50 times to be a fan of it. Of course not. That's really absurd even.

I will try to explain my opinion by saying that Star Wars is certainly more important to me than a degree or than money or than anything else that I do not personally consider of real importance. I mean, yes everyone has to make a living and make money, but I would never sacrifice my integrity, WHO I AM, for money or for a degree. Star Wars is a large part of who I am and although that may not be true of everyone (as I wrote in the topic, different priorities), it is true for me.

So, for me, I cannot personally imagine seeing Episode II only two times because Star Wars takes priority over almost everything else, including school or work because it IS more important, so that is where my time goes.

The fact I write books about movies and the movie industry also greatly helps me justify my involvement in Star Wars, hehe, but in reality it's just an excuse. I would see the films just as many times and do just what I do know whether I was an author or not and I cannot kid anyone else or myself by saying that's not so. Still, I can make money on my interest in movies and in the Star Wars Saga, so that is all the better I think!

I guess if you think getting a degree will make you happier than seeing Star Wars films and being more actively involved, then that is a decision you make and I cannot pass judgement on that. To me, though, Star Wars is more important than trivial matters like that (trivial to me), so that is why I am willing to spend the money and find the time to see the films.

I wish every Star Wars fan was as devoted as I am too, Buff, but in a way that would be scary because we wouldn't have any, you know, "normal" "casual" fans. Also, if everyone saw TPM 50 times then I wouldn't be special eh? Haha. I would just be another nerd, but now I am KING of the nerds! Haha, I am just kidding. I think devotion to something, be it a movie, a movie series, a musical group, a hobby, a religion, or whatever else can have great significance in life. It is meaningful.

I am insulted when people ASSUME that because The Bible, a book, is so important to them it somehow makes my love of a movie series trivial. Star Wars means just as much to me as religion does to anyone else and just as I try to be tolerant of people believing in fairy tales in the Bible, I expect the same of me enjoying fairy tales on the movie screen. Albeit, at least I admit they are fairy tales. :lol

[Jedieb]

You certainly don't have to defend your fandom to me or anyone else Davwj. Hell, somewhere there's a kid out there who only got to see TPM once in a theater. He may not have even seen it in the theater at all, maybe he just saw it on video. Maybe he'll see it when it premieres on FOX and he'll be hooked. He may end up dreaming of being a Jedi and battling Darth Maul for the next 3 months. Without buying a single movie ticket or toy that little kid has made himself as big a SW fan as ANYONE on this board. He doesn't care how much money it makes or what anyone else thinks of SW. He doesn't care about how many weekends TPM grossed over $20M or how fast it reached $100M, $200M, or $300M. He loves just loves SW and doesn't care what anyone else thinks of it. How insecure do you have to be to start labeling people as non-fans? I gave up the "I'm the biggest SW fan in the world and no one loves it as much as me!" FANTASY when I was 8. It's pretty childish and rather unhealthy IMO. I really don't believe anyone here is ridiculous enough to believe themselves to be the greatest or most loyal SW fan ever. If they do then I wish them all the best and hope they don't end up hurting anyone. :angel

LOTR & HP
When I think of LOTR I think of a literary saga that took root with the college and high school crowd. I see HP's strongest support with Elementary and Middle School readers. Now of course you've got both sets of novels crossing over, but I think that's a pretty good definition of their core and target audiences. You also have to consider that HP hasn't passed the test of time that LOTR has. Who knows, the books may still be popular 50 years from now. Since HP hasn't had the opportunity to match LOTR's longevity it's kind of hard say those books aren't on par with LOTR. Who knows, HP may go down as being the novels of the 21st century. I find myself much more inclined to see LOTR than HP. HP seems more like a kiddie movie and I'm just not that jazzed to see it, even with the trailer. It's too old for my son to enjoy and there's no way I can get my wife to go see it. Well, I probably could but it would end up costing me 3-4 chick flicks and HP isn't worth that. Only a 3rd or 4th viewing of AOTC is worth that steep a price. But she will go with me to see LOTR whether she likes it or not. I'll put the big "I'M THE MAN OF THE HOUSE STAMPING MY FOOT DOWN! THE FOOT HAS SPOKEN! WE'RE GOING TO SEE LOTR!" What wwwas that?! Holy crap, here she com............................

[Jedi Master Carr]

I completely agree with you Jedieb it doesn't matter how many times somebody saw TPM or any SW film for them to be a fan. Now as far as our current debate, I just find it laughable that people think HP will beat Titanic not even to mention some how making more than 400. I think it has a remote chance of making 300, I think its more likely to max out at 250-280, IMO which is still an incredible number. But for it to get past 300 it would need a lot of repeat viewings and as been said but several of you that probably will not happen. Now LOTR is a different story. I think a lot of people are ignoring it (media morons) and focusing on HP. Sure I guess in a month that will change and the focus will be put on it. I also think it has a good chance of making 300 million if as Doc said there is a huge disapointed reaction to it that is the only way it will not get past 250 IMO.

[JonathanLB]

A kid who sees TPM one time is nowhere near the fan that any of us on this forum are.

Of course fandom isn't determined by the sheer number of times you see a film or by the number of possessions you have relating to Star Wars (that is really stupid), but some people are naturally much bigger fans than other people. To say all fans are equal is simply not true. All students are not equal, all people are not equal, all Star Wars fans are not equal.

I have seen Star Wars fans even more dedicated and loyal than I am. I love those people! If they are more dedicated and loyal than I am, obviously I am VERY happy we have them as fans. I wish that I was the least devoted Star Wars fan in the entire fan base. That way, everyone else, millions of people, would be even more loyal to the saga and even more into it. That would be awesome. In reality, though, I am probably in the top few percent of most dedicated fans, as are many other people on this forum. We are not just the normal, casual fans. We're pretty die-hard. :) You've been a fan for life basically, EB, you're not just a normal fan...

As for the Harry Potter vs. LOTR debate, I still would bet on Harry Potter making more money, but LOTR is going to be a way better film and I actually am looking forward to seeing LOTR, but not at all looking forward to actually seeing Harry Potter (just the trailer).

[Darth23]

"I completely agree with you Jedieb it doesn't matter how many times somebody saw TPM or any SW film for them to be a fan. "


So does THIS mark the end of the episode of the Box Office Brady Bunch?

:p :D :p