The Greatest Game In Series History!!!!

[JonathanLB]

That was possibly the greatest game in the history of the World Series! OH... MY... GOD!!!!!!!!!!!

I have never seen anything so remarkable in sports in, umm, a long time. MAYBE the niners comeback against Green Bay with Owens' catch, but I don't know. This is the Series. This is more important.

TWO OUTS, NINTH INNING, GAME-TYING TWO-RUN HOMERUN! Tenth inning, TWO outs, WALK-OFF HOME RUN JETER!!!

The greatest game I have ever seen.

I am totally stunned. I am in disbelief at this comeback.

The first time the Yankees have come back after being down two runs in the ninth since the 1930's!!!

This is truly the greatest team in baseball history right here. The greatest Yankee team ever I think. DANG!!!

GO YANKEES!!!!

[darth_mcbain]

Tough call to call this the greatest Yankees team ever. With their history, they have some mighty big shoes to fill. Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, Maris, DiMaggio, Berra, Guidry, Mattingly, etc... Some mighty good players on this team throughout history.

As for the game, that may very well be one of the greatest games ever in World Series play. I'd have to also say Don Larsen's perfect game is a big candidate (also a Yankees victory), as well as Kirk Gibson's blast in the '88 (I think?) series.

[Jedieb]

Last night on Fox they had a graphic up for World Series comebacks. I believe there have only been 2 9th inning comebacks with 2 run deficits where the team coming back eventually won the game. The last one was in 1929 the other 1911(?)and I believe the Yanks were involved in one of them. Last night was certainly one of the best WS finishes ever. As a whole the game may not have been pretty, but the drama at the end made up for it. McBain has mentioned some great games as well. I don't know if this Yankee team is the greatest ever, but they've made a great case. Remember, this squad can lay claim to that 114 win season also. Unlike this year's Mariners, they finished what they started and won their World Series.

If you just go back in World Series history you'll find plenty of great games and moments, and last night fits in nicely.

[darth_mcbain]

I saw that graphic too last night. Personally, I find it funny when the sportscasters bring up these wacky facts that nobody would ever remember.

Joe Buck: You know, Clemens is pitching well against the lefties tonight.

Tim McCarver: You're absolutely right, Joe. You know, an interested side note, the last time a pitcher did this well against left handed hitters, playing on natural turf, while chewing tobacco, with runners not leading off the bases, when the moon was full, and the stadium attendance was less than 60% of full stadium capacity, was Christy Mathewson back in 1913...

Where do they come up with this stuff??? :lol

[Darth23]

Sports stat nerds.

Think Box Office nerds and switch it sports and multiply bt like 100.

[darth_mcbain]

You sure multiplying it by 100 is enough?!?!? Anyone who can remember this stuff needs to get out more often... :crack

[Mu Satach]

WHAAAAAAA!!!

I missed it. *sniff*

[JonathanLB]

"Tim McCarver: You're absolutely right, Joe. You know, an interested side note, the last time a pitcher did this well against left handed hitters, playing on natural turf, while chewing tobacco, with runners not leading off the bases, when the moon was full, and the stadium attendance was less than 60% of full stadium capacity, was Christy Mathewson back in 1913... "

LOL. That's classic. Yeah they always do stuff like that.

[CMJ]

I'm not so sure about the greatest series game ever. The '91 series(which was the best ever played IMHO) had like 3 games I would put up with this one. that series was SOOOOO unbelievable. Seven games....5 games decided by 1 run....4 games decided at the last at bat. WOW!!! that was the series that fanned my interest in baseball. I was a fan before that...but after it I became a NUT for the game(of course I'm a sports junkie to a ridulous degree, about every sport...kind of like the guys you were making fun of...to think I'm like that with MOVIES & SPORTS). Jon if you didn't see that series...man....you missed out. I still get chills thinking about it.

[darth_mcbain]

Maybe I should have created a new thread for this, but I figured it would fit in here...

Question about baseball rules:
When the batter swings at strike three and misses, and the catcher drops the ball, the batter runs to first base and if he makes it before the catcher can throw him out, he's got the base...
Now, what if the bases are loaded? The catcher could purposefully drop the third strike, therefore creating a force play on all bases. He could then pick up the ball, step on home, and throw to any base for an easy double play.

I was thinking about that as the Yankees were in that situation in the first inning of game 4. Does anyone know if that is allowed or how that would work?

[JonathanLB]

Call me stupid, but I had actually forgotten or didn't know that if you bunt on two strikes and tip it foul you are out. What the HECK is up with that?! That's honestly the dumbest rule I have ever seen in baseball except maybe the balk.

That should be eliminated totally, the balk that is. A pitcher should be able to do ANYTHING he can, ANYTHING to get that runner out. In fact, the base runner who is on first base should be standing on first base exactly if he wants to be safe. Otherwise, he is taking a risk. He is on first base, right? Yes, exactly, so if he gets thrown out for being off the bag I don't care what the pitcher did to fake him out, his ass shouldn't have been so far off the bag. They take a risk any time they are not standing on that base, which is every time, so they should be able to be thrown out anyway possible.

[Jedieb]

Originally posted by Darth McBain
Maybe I should have created a new thread for this, but I figured it would fit in here...

Question about baseball rules:
When the batter swings at strike three and misses, and the catcher drops the ball, the batter runs to first base and if he makes it before the catcher can throw him out, he's got the base...
Now, what if the bases are loaded? The catcher could purposefully drop the third strike, therefore creating a force play on all bases. He could then pick up the ball, step on home, and throw to any base for an easy double play.

I was thinking about that as the Yankees were in that situation in the first inning of game 4. Does anyone know if that is allowed or how that would work?

I think it would work like this:
6.09 The batter becomes a runner when_
(a) He hits a fair ball;
(b) The third strike called by the umpire is not caught, providing (1) first base is unoccupied, or (2) first base is occupied with two out; When a batter becomes a base runner on a third strike not caught by the catcher and starts for the dugout, or his position, and then realizes his situation and attempts then to reach first base, he is not out unless he or first base is tagged before he reaches first base. If, however, he actually reaches the dugout or dugout steps, he may not then attempt to go to first base and shall be out.

It's kind of like the infield fly rule. There are rules in place to prevent the defense from purposely commiting errors to get double plays.


Sports stat nerds.

Think Box Office nerds and switch it sports and multiply bt like 100.

Ya know, I've known some guys who could spit out stats as if they were born and bred by Elias. They can be incredibly annoying. But no more so than someone who can spout box office grosses from the summer of 82 from memory as if their life depended on it. Everybody who's ever played ball gets into stats. You can sit around a bar and get into a decent conversation with a guy you've never met about by talking about batting averages, ERA's, touchdown passes in a season, etc. Do you think the conversation would go as well if you went on and on about the weekly percentage drops TPM had in comparison to Titanic's? ;)


I believe there have only been 2 9th inning comebacks with 2 run deficits where the team coming back eventually won the game. The last one was in 1929 the other 1911(?)and I believe the Yanks were involved in one of them.

I read an article today that brought that stat up. The Giants were the New York team that was involved. It was against the poor Cubs. And to make it worse, the game before they made their 9th inning comeback they beat the Cubs by erasing an 8-0 deficit in the 7th inning! They scored 10 runs and broke the hearts and backs of the Cubs. Sometimes you just have to shake your head and wonder how Cubs and Red Soxs fans make it through a season. Talk about loyalty!!!!!

[JonathanLB]

So far, I mean through just game 4 because game 5 just started, who is the World Series MVP, considering the series is tied 2-2?

I think it is DEFINITELY Spencer. Ok, first off he basically saved game 3 for the Yankees so that win is largely his. He was the hero there. Then, in game 4, he made a key defensive play that saved a run and he hit a home run in the game to make it 1-0, then it was 1-1, then 3- 1, 3-3, 4-3, so I think some people forgot that Spencer was still a major part of game 4.

Is he a bench player and not even a regular? Yes, that is true, but darnit he is good!

[JonathanLB]

I really hate Counsell. What is it about that little homo? LOL. His stupid way to bat is just utterly retarded. He makes himself look like an absolute fool. NOBODY bats like that and for a reason: because it doesn't work and because it looks utterly stupid. Ugg, he is the opposite of cool.

Derek Jeter, now that is cool, the kind of guy you love to watch see succeed, but Counsell just ticks you off every time his ugly mug even comes on the screen.

UGG!!!

[Doc Milo]

Jedieb, you have a baseball rulebook? :)

I love the way rules are written, don't you? Like the law. There's always a much simpler way to say it!

A batter can't run to first on a dropped strike three if first base is occupied, unless there are two outs.

Much simpler, I think :)

But the rule, as written, makes me wonder if anyone has ever tried to dupe the defense thusly: Opposing teams first basemen is up to bat. Strike three is dropped. First baseman takes off his batting helmet and drops it to the ground as he makes his way to his position. Catcher, not on the ball, forgets to tag the batter. Batter has never left the field, so, as he gets closer, he breaks for the bag and touches it safely as the defense is running off the field.

I know, seems a bit unlikely. But hey, according to the way the rule is written, it can happen. :)

[JonathanLB]

Somehow, I actually think that Game 5 might have been better than Game 4. It was longer, after all, and that alone makes it more nerve-racking. Plus, there was the fact it had just happened before and it seemed impossible that it would happen again OR likely that it would happen again, depending on your mood.

I mean, I sat there thinking as there was a runner on second, "Ok, now he just has to homer." I had just seen it done 24 hours earlier, so I obviously wasn't thinking it was impossible. lol. It was just odd when it really did happen.

I think these are two of the greatest games ever.

[Jedieb]

I just pulled that off the net real quick Doc. Different leagues have different rules, but certain concepts stay in place. And like any sport, you can have some confusion. That's where umpires need to assert control of the game. Umps have some discretion when it comes to the infiled fly rule and called 3rd strikes. The situation you describe is basically a heads up play by the batter. But if the ump isn't paying attention then he's out of luck. Basically, catchers are programmed to grab any dropped third strike and tag runners. It's a reflex, you see them do it even when first base is occupied and the rule isn't in effect. Plus, you're basically trying to pull a fast one on the ump. Depending on the ump, you may not want to take a chance on pissing him off. So you play by the rules and watch your manager get thrown out of the game as he kicks dirt on the ump on your behalf. Ah, what a wonderful game. :)

[darth_mcbain]

Thanks for the clarification EB, that makes sense - otherwise there would be abuse of it. I got another rules questions if you're game:

I was always taught (and hey I could be wrong on this) that when you've gotten a single and overrun the base and you have no intention of going to second, you should NEVER turn to your left (i.e. into fair territory), since that can be construed that you "made the turn" to second and you can be tagged out. I was always taught to turn to the left if you know you're not going to go for second. My question is, I've seen Major Leaguers who have no intention of going to second turn to their left, and the first baseman never tags him out.

So, is that rule that I was taught just bogus? Or is it like an unwritten rule, like "Yeah, you're not supposed to turn to your left, but it is a cheap out - so I won't bother tagging you out." ? Just wondering on that.

[JonathanLB]

Ok it's not like that, but it has to do with the rules, haha.

Ok, there are two outs in the inning, runner on third, and the guy up hits a single into left field and scores the runner, but instead of stopping he goes for the double and tries to make second. He is thrown out. So... how come the run still counts? The third out was achieved during the same series there, so why doesn't the inning end and the run simply not count?

At what point does a run count permanently? Clearly if there are two outs and the throw goes to first base, runner scores, but the runner at first is out, then the inning ends with no more runs. Same goes for any other plate, like in the 11th of game 5 where Brosius steps on third for the final out even probably about the time a runner scored...

[Doc Milo]

I believe it's like this Jon: If the batter reaches base safely but is tagged out at another base before the run scores, the run would not count. If the batter reaches base safely and is tagged out at another base after the run scores, the run counts. If the batter does not reach base safely, regardless of whether or not the runner scores before the out is recorded, the run does not count.

So, if there is a man on second, and a batter hits a single, and tries to stretch it into a double, and is tagged out for the final out before the runner from second is able to touch home plate, the run will not count.

If, in the same situation, the runner at second touches home plate before the batter is tagged at second, the run will count. (The batter has reached base safely -- he reached first base safely and was tagged out trying to make second base safely.)

If there is a runner on third and the batter hits a grounder to third, and the runner touches home plate before the final out is recorded at first base, the run does not count because the batter did not reach base safely.

It all depends upon whether or not the batter has reached first base safely. If the batter does reach first base safely, then it depends upon whether the run scored before the final out was made at a different base.

If there is a force at another base, like the play with Brosius tagging third, the batter is deemed not to have reached first base safely because the final out was recorded on the force.

I don't know if I cleared it up or made it worse :)

[JonathanLB]

You cleared it up :)

That if what I figured of course, if I had to write it out, but I just wasn't totally clear on that. It makes sense, though. Thanks :D

[Jedieb]

My question is, I've seen Major Leaguers who have no intention of going to second turn to their left, and the first baseman never tags him out.

I don't care what level you play at, if you start to make a turn towards second base you have placed yourself in the field of play and can be tagged out. Now, if you're just inside the line an ump will give you some leeway. But if you turn your body and take a good step towards second base because you think the first baseman has missed the throw then you've got to keep going towards second or get back to first. There are always instances in which umpires obey the "spirit" of the rule instead of the actual rule. The "phantom" tag is an example of this. Part of the reason an ump will give a shortstop or second baseman the benefit of the doubt on a swipe tag is that they want to help protect infielders. There's no such impetus with a runner over running first base. If you cross that bag and make a noticeable turn towards second you should be tagged out IMO.

Doc, those are pretty good explanations of force plays. It's always been my experience, that unless the runner heading towards home CLEARLY beats the out at first (or whatever base) the ump will not count the run. A tie just won't do it, you've got to get that runner across before that out is made. Most umps will give the defense the benefit of the doubt.

[Jedieb]

BTW, when was the last time anyone here actually PLAYED baseball?o_O

[JonathanLB]

I played in lower school on a team that was first place two years in a row. We rocked! :) That was a lot of fun, except that I was without a doubt the 2nd worst player on the team. There was only one kid worse, but I was pretty bad.

I hadn't really matured enough like the other kids had, hehe. I actually got better a good deal and played in PE and stuff in middle school and then freshman year of high school. I was much better by that point and I like the game, but of course I didn't play for any other teams. Our team sucked at JHS anyway.

Our football team won state and will most likely win state again this year. Our running back, DJ Jackson, will almost surely be playing pro if he can play like this in college. He'll be one heck of a college player. Our girls soccer team rocked (six straight Oregon championships and more than 100 straight games without a loss), but our baseball teams just sucked hard...

Oh yeah, we always won the Metro League in track too, so I don't know what was up with the baseball, haha.

[Doc Milo]

I played softball last year -- usually play in a "snowflake league" each year, but we didn't play this year.

[Jedieb]

I played in an adult league up until the summer of 00. I quit this summer because I just don't have the time. There's also the matter of my sucking. Not the good Pamela Anderson kind of sucking, the bad Rosie O'Donnel kind of sucking. I'd love to play softball again, I played in college, but it's tough to find a team where I'm at. I can't really get in one through work because the building is full of women. I could go into a league and get in some kind of draft, but I hate the idea of having to audition. So I think my ball playing days are finally behind me. :(

[darth_mcbain]

The last I officially played was in high school. Unfortunately, it was around that time that my eyes started screwing up and I needed glasses, so for that season I sucked pretty bad as I couldn't see that well. Other than a few college softball games, haven't played since then. I'd like to get back into it though, or at least softball. Great game!!!