Roleplaying Situation - Official Thread

[Champion of the Force]

I thought it would be nice to have a fresh thread for dealing with this rather than just adding onto one of the other threads.

Ok, so Firebird has just ended off his latest post with a call for a survey. IMHO this is a wonderful idea - the current thread is going nowhere (still no sign of that 'pile of evidence' - I have a suspicion the actual thread was meant to make up most of that pile but unfortuantely for the prosecutors it has been refuted by both mods and posters alike).

So, what's the plan of action? I think starting up a new thread asking for possible survey questions would be a good start, plus finding people who would be willing to take on the job of holding the survey. Either way, I daresay the admins would be expected to take some sort of pro-action, lets they be then criticised for attempting to derail the effort. :rolleyes

[TheHolo.Net]

I agree that a new topic in regards to chosing questions and whatnot for the survey as well as one to find an appropriate mediator would be a good way to continue with this. Maybe then we can finally get somewhere with the mess.

If it wasn't for this splitting headache of mine, I'd be jumping out there and trying to get it started myself, but thinking is semi difficult with such a loud pounding in my head. :x

[Champion of the Force]

Ok then.

First, let's hold back and see what the next few responses are. I've already done a quick post with clear, straightforward ideas to get some action happening. Hopefully a few posters will agree and maybe even do the job for us? If so, that would be much better for us - I've long been of the opinion that the more the mods/admins remain out of personal affairs on the board the better, lest it result in situations like we have now.

Second, we've also got to take into account what results this can have on the admin staff. I'm safe as far as I can see - I'm a SW admin and thus my position is up to the posters in those sections so unless they kick me out or complain I see no problems for myself. However, a possible worse case scenario for the RP staff is a call for all their resginations. Far fetched I know, but still a potential risk, and a risk that has to be noted right now so that we may adequately prepare for it should it arise.

Third, we need to post here ideas and plans we each may have in tackling the issue before going out and posting on the forum. One of the things that can kill a group is if each member begins saying different things at different times. We need to be united n this so its important we're all on the same wavelength in what we are doing.

[Pierce Tondry]

I am willing to help guide this effort. I think I probably have some decent PR experience, and also have the very few actual spots on my general personal record, other than my limited involvement in the matter with Dara and Lynch deciding to rope me into this mess.

[Pierce Tondry]

Incidentally, I think that the worst case scenario (that they call for our resignations) isn't exactly worst case. After all, if they pulled us out, we wouldn't have this crap to deal with, and could actually RP some of the time. Plus, we could be the ones heckling those at work. :)

[Sanis Prent]

Personally I think Dave is the best dude for the job, as he's a RP outsider :\

[Pierce Tondry]

:) I didn't say he wasn't. But I do think that you and Ogre in particular need to have as little to do with the proceedings as possible. The less rope anyone has to try and hang you with, the better. If actual Mod/Admin intervention is called for, I can probably put a good foot forward.

[Sanis Prent]

:( I know...it wasn't a knock at you or anything....(sigh) I'm just thinking about people, and I can't think of a single person one camp can't accuse of serving the other :(

[Pierce Tondry]

Actually, I don't think we need to worry about that. I think that in this unique case, it's almost everybody against the mods and admins. Because of that, we can't really effectively solve the problem. People know that, and thus know that they have to solve the problem. Their solution is the one that will be enacted, and if it fails, it will be their fault. Our hands will be free of the mess, for the most part.

[Champion of the Force]

:: shakes head ::

No, I don't think I am. I have already heard whisperings about my reappointment as admin, that I did it for the power and that I'm attempting to run the show behind the scenes etc etc. You know, the usual rumour mill.

I personally don't care - if they have a problem with me as admin I'll just point them in the direct of the BO forum and invite them to post a complaint there, since that is the area that I moderate. Love to see how far they would get raising hell there. That is why I said I believed my position is safe.

I agree with Pierce that minimal mod/admin intervention is the best course of action. I think this is FMH's failing - he's so passionate about the roleplaying that he gets over-involved and people see it as an attempt to rule the roost so to speak (like the recent Fleet discussion).

As for worst case scenario, well it woud be nice to have peace and quiet in our lives, but who would run the forum on the technical side? Me? Hardly - I've only barely grasped the ropes in regards to running this place. Ogre is the king in that area. :)

I think this survey would be best accomplished by a group of people. Hold a vote and encourage nominations (not right now - lets see how the current discussion pans out first).

[Sanis Prent]

Thats a good point. Without Ogre's technical know-how....this place would really go to Hell in a handbasket :(

Me? I'm expendable. I'm an ******* anyways :)

[Champion of the Force]

I won't bother asking what ******* stand for. :)

HERA has posted some very good ideas regarding what the survey will entail and how it can be distibuted and collected. The only thing I would add to it would be a section allowing for the poster to mention anything else they have issues with.

But on the whole, this new thread is going very well. :)

[Pierce Tondry]

FMH's failing (or one of them) is more towards his abrasiveness. He tends to shove things down people's throats. Granted, some things need shoving, but in those cases where it's called for he doesn't use words and ways that are very politic or respectful. Things he runs typically become a "get in or get out" scenario, and people usually want one or more of the changes he suggests, so they get in and resent having to go along for the rest of the suggestions.

And fortunately for me, I'm expendable too. :) Hell, I volunteered for this job because I thought I could help, and if it becomes obvious that I can't do that, I have no problem getting the hell out of Dodge.

[Pierce Tondry]

Dave: That's true. Hera is absolutely wonderful. :)

[Sanis Prent]

Yeah me too. I only did the mod thing cause I ALREADY get people bitching at me. Might as well get a shiny badge and be constructive to boot.

If I'm not a mod...I can put PC behind and tell these people exactly what I think about them, not that they don't know already.

[Champion of the Force]

Yes, FMH can get like that :), however I believe that's due to his passion for roleplaying that I mentioned earlier. He cares about it so much that when something he perceives is going wrong or needs changing he wants it done right now. Throw in his mod position and it doesn't always turn out as well as one would hope. :\

I think the underlying impression people are getting from the staff is that they've gone from being simply mods/admins who delete threads, ban trolls etc etc etc to some sort of 'game masters' who now dictate the roleplaying and what should and shouldn't be roleplayed etc etc. And that's why some members are pissed off, and the recent Fleet discussion and subsequent promotion of you 2 has only reaffirmed that and finally pushed people too far.

[Pierce Tondry]

It's a shame, that. I just figured it was finally time to get my ass off the sidelines and do something about the situation instead of letting another attempt to make some reasonable changes get thrown down the crapper because people don't like FMH (and I do know of people who would object to the entire list of fleet rules simply because he was proposing them).

It just burns a bit that people are misinterpreting my volunteering as some sort of power grab. I've never bloody been like that at all, and made loud noises to that effect in the past.

[Champion of the Force]

It comes with the territory, as you'll probably end up disovering. It's a pity we don't have the RPF here - it provided a perfect window into just how maddening a mod/admin's job could be (many RPF posters were aginst any form of moderating whatsoever - oh boy the fights that were fought over that issue).

In the end though, my own advice is to simply stick to standard admin/mod responsibilities and avoid being judgemental when it comes to the actual roleplaying itslef, lest it invite issues like I mentioned above.

As ironic as it may seem, in my 7 1/2 months off as a normal poster I came to the conclusion that the roleplaying badly needed decentralising (ironic in that I helped centralise it in the first place) where SWFans only real role was to provide the venue for roleplaying - infiltraton, group clashes, fleets etc should be handled by the individuals/groups involved by themselves with SWFans only getting omvolved as a last result instead of the first, and in hindsight having SWFans get involved was probably a blunder that took about a year to realise. :\

I myself have been toying with an RP idea for over a year now. It's fairly simple, involving no groups, fleets or any of that rubbish, but just literally 'you and your lightsaber' (replace lightsaber with item of choice). It would be set sometime after the current EU timeline, and would be a completely individual setup - no official groups prancing around with humungous fleets attemtpting the conquer the galaxy. jabroni's idea earlier this year was fairly similar, except he wanted his set in the middle of the EU and wanted to disregard certain books and events which didn't sit right with people.

The best example to demonstrate what I'm thinking of would be D&D, where each person has their own character participating in a story that may - or may not - eventuate to something grander, but very rarely would it be something that would 'redefine the universe' or anything that major, which apparently became a favourite theme for a while here.

Arrgggh - I'm rambling. Isn't it wonderful what some meditation and observation can bring out in a guy? :)

[Sanis Prent]

Good call on the close, Dave. Drin's a bit of a whiner savant, even if the winds of favor blow in our court, or whatever. He means well, but it ain't good for the whole hill of beans, I think.

[Champion of the Force]

Thanks :). As soon as I saw him on the Who's Online list with the action 'Replying to thread' I knew what was coming and acted as soon as he posted it. With Firebird posting his apology and the survey thread well under way it seemed senseless to let the thread continue with all the bad brooding.

The 'Who's Online' feature is wonderful - I can see exactly what everyone is doing, or NOT doing. Did you know that Firebird and Dara went to respond to the complaint thread no less than 3 times each (that I saw) but kept stopping? :)

[Sanis Prent]

lol I saw that too

[TheHolo.Net]

My take on the “worst case scenario”:

Yes, they can at the absolute worst call for the resignations of all the RolePlaying staffers, and I would accept that. Have a look at the Administation list and notice that this account is listed as an all around site administrator. If they were to call for such a thing, I would step out of Roleplaying matters entirely, except when it came to trolls and go on about my business supporting the technical aspects of this board.

The majority of adjustments and hacks that have been added to these forums has been done so by me, not only to make it better for the posters IMO, but because that’s one of the things I love doing.

If it did become absolutely necessary that I give up all my abilities then there would need to be some major changes before I did resign, so that whoever took over could handle the technical aspects of what would be given to them. I think a great deal of my hack additions and template changes would need to be removed so that the one to take over could start fresh and not have to try and learn vBulletin in addition to all of the changes I have made, but start fresh rather. Just my thoughts.

As for this account, Nupraptor and I have already discussed, that this account would go back to his possession because he is the owner of these forums and this account is the first and most powerful of the administrator account. Any replacement for my position would have to get regular old Admin rights, they would not be given rights to UID#1.

To be completely honest, it would devastate me to have to do such a thing, since I do love this place and I think it shows in all the work I have done, but I stand by my philosophy that I am here to serve the “community”, and will abide by their collective wishes if it comes to that.

[TheHolo.Net]

As for the survey; I believe that I will remain uninvolved in the process to let the community do as they see fit, unless I see what I consider some kind of travesty happening and must insert my opinion, but I doubt that wil happen.

[Dalethria Mal Pannis]

Well, I missed this discussion :lol

Funny thing is I know I am not around alot posting but I am always here lurking and making sure the RP forums are running and stuff. I actually enjoy what I do as I know all of us do... well, don't know about Sanis and Pierce since they are new :p

Disagrements aside, I like modding more then RPing ... but I refuse to get involve in fleets since they confuse the hell outta me :crack :p :crack

Hopefully this won't turn out to be a resignation fest, I doubt it but I offered my thoughts in the big survery thread =)

[Champion of the Force]

I doubt there will be calls for any resignations, especially since people have now cooled down a bit.

[Dalethria Mal Pannis]

I know but I feel left out of this long convo so I had to post :p

I swear all the insane stuff happens when I am at school.

[TheHolo.Net]

I'm not sure, but I think the discussion I started at TSE regarding my position at least, may have helped cool a few tempers, by giving people the chance to speak their minds there, where I think a great deal of the hostilities were present. Not saying they are gone, but I do think it helped.

[Champion of the Force]

The annoying thing about that though is that there is all this action occuring off the board that people like myself can't see, so when they somehow or other end up on SWFans we don't know what happened where for it to occur. :\

[TheHolo.Net]

Thats why having "RolePlaying" staff familiar with the other boards is a good thing. Though an outside voice of sanity is very much needed and helpful too. :)

[Pierce Tondry]

>_< That's one of the things I've never liked about TSE- they have security paranoia and won't even say what they're thinking out loud most of the time. It would help if I had a better read on their mood, but oh, well. :/

[TheHolo.Net]

Dale and I have both tried to make efforts to get them to lighten up some, but have had little success. :\

[Sanis Prent]

They tend to be more uptight than Ron Jeremy and Winona Ryder in a leather sleeping bag.

[Dalethria Mal Pannis]

What happens is this ... they don't ever say anything until waaay after the fact and let it fester. It is just like Real Life... you keep it all inside till something minor happens and it pisses you off even more.

Communication is suppose to be easier on the net ... or you would think :\

I dunno ... seems like people just want to assume that if your in at my board your in at the boards.

feh ... that is just an absurb statement. When I first became a mod, I "heard" why didn't LL get the job. I remeber Mister Lizard said congrats.

Now he gets a mod position and it isn't a good thing -_-

I will NEVER understand people eventho I got a degree in psy :lol

[Sanis Prent]

Um...what did you hear, if ya don't mind me asking. I think I know, just comparin notes :)

[TheHolo.Net]

Think I heard a bit about it at one time too, but I don't remember it. :x

[Dalethria Mal Pannis]

what did I hear when and pertainting to what?
:lol

[Sanis Prent]

pertainin to why I didn't get the job the first time around :)

[Champion of the Force]

Soooooooo ... what's happening with the survey? It appears as though the thread dedicated for it has gone for nearly 3 days without a response.

Is there stuff happening behind the scenes or is it dead in the water? :confused

[TheHolo.Net]

I have heard nadda about it. It was a poster related movement to have it done, so I hope they don't hold us responsible for leting it fall.

[Dalethria Mal Pannis]

Beats meh. Haven't heard anything but the rolling tumbleweeds going by.

Sanis should know more then any of us

:: pokes sanis ::

:p

[Q]

Originally posted by SWFans.Net
I have heard nadda about it. It was a poster related movement to have it done, so I hope they don't hold us responsible for leting it fall. My sentiments exactly.

[TheHolo.Net]

I more or less said as much in the topic out in the OOC forum.

[Sanis Prent]

I was adamant that I wouldn't get involved with the questions, and Dara more or less shared that sentiment. We're only the mediators in whatever is drawn up, at least thats my take on it all.

[TheHolo.Net]

If there are no more new replies to the topic, I'll "unstick" it tomorrow afternoon.

[Champion of the Force]

Actually, I would suggest a final post in the subject asking whether anyone wants to still have this survey done first, then give a day or so to see if there are anymore responses before unsticking it.

I just have a bad feeling that by unsticking it some will claim that we are 'sweeping it under the rug' (to use Jedah's favourite phrase). :\

[TheHolo.Net]

Seems Firebird decided to reply to what I had said anyway. Now to see if he'll actually do it.

[Champion of the Force]

I just saw that too.

I say leave the thread stuck for another couple of days just to give him (or someone else) a chance to get things rolling.

[TheHolo.Net]

Thats what I was thinking of doing. :)