About Last night....(uh2)

[imported_Firebird1]

Ok, so the topics are back, but they have been changed. Now I have a few questions for the Admins...

1) The thread may of been stressful in nature, but that does justify the fact that you removed the replys. So first off, why did you do it?

2) The fact that someone posted the correct info in one of those threads, and now I see it has been changed. Since that post wasn't really what I'd call stressful, why delete it?

3) Couldn't you all PMed the New person involved about his grammer instead of having someone post there?

4) Why did the Mods(in this case Sanis) support him?


Well, I think these four are a good start. Now I want everyone to remember this. This is an all ages board so we will have people here of varying typing skills and in various Language classes. Also a new person might not know where to post, or what is right at first, so if something is a problem, just move it, and then PM him/her.

[imported_Firebird1]

???


Uh, I can hear you breathing out there!!!!

Don't make me set loose the hounds!

[Sanis Prent]

1) The thread may of been stressful in nature, but that does justify the fact that you removed the replys. So first off, why did you do it?

Well, it being 4 AM when this was done, we simply wished to have the questions directly answered, without the side comments and rhetoric. I suppose I can comb through the archive and pull whatever pertinent comments back into the threads, but I'm not sure if we have that feature.

2) The fact that someone posted the correct info in one of those threads, and now I see it has been changed. Since that post wasn't really what I'd call stressful, why delete it?

The repost and reply contained all key information needed, so no harm in that.

3) Couldn't you all PMed the New person involved about his grammer instead of having someone post there?

You all? Tasha commented on the grammar, and Tasha alone. This has nothing to do with the staff at all.

4) Why did the Mods(in this case Sanis) support him?

If I supported Tasha, I would have imposed some kind of sanction to enforce a rule on grammar use, which I did not. A discussion on grammar suggestions was started, and I simply added an opinion and a perspective, nothing more. There is no weight, no intrinsic value in anything as such. I am entitled to an opinion as you, Tasha, Q, or Dara are as well. When I apply actual rulings or enforcements in response to a similar issue, you can then question about mod or admin support. Until then, the only support I give is to my own right to speak my mind...with no strings attached.

I think analysis of the situation is a good start. Its a pretty bad idea to assume that simply because one or more of the staff members voices an opinion on an issue, that they are somehow "in league" with one or more parties in some sort of half-baked conspiracy theory. Neither myself nor any staff member supports any kind of doctrine here to impose grammatical rules on the posters. We are, of course, entitled to agree / disagree with opinions or ideas as we please, but rest assured...we are not a bunch of whimsical mavericks who deliver shotgun justice. If an issue ever comes to the point where it may be considered doctrine, there will be a sounding board here for every poster to speak their mind on the matter. You've seen that, even to the point of us having long-winded discussions on what color buttons we might have an option to use. We take great pains to deliver impartiality on matters of importance.

Now, if there are any other questions for myself, Swfans.net, or any other member of the staff to answer, I'm sure we can to the best of our abilities. Just keep in mind, we are entitled to bring our opinions to the table, same as all of you :) That doesn't mean we impose them on anybody. Just a friendly reminder.

[imported_Firebird1]

Well, I'm glad you answered Sanis. Now of course I have a few more questions, but I'll get to that in a moment.

About the "changes" made to those threads:

I'm sorry, but I did not see the need to erease every reply. For example: Dara did post the links to the FAQ and the other Revelant Information. Now the links are still there, but the original post that contained them is gone. You could of just deleted everything below that post, but you went way too far on that.
On to futher Questioning!

1) Why did you move the corrected topics out here?

2) And has the new person Korran been Pmed?

[Sanis Prent]

As stated before...the information still reached its source. No harm no foul on that. Now, if there are other relevant posts that can be transferred from the archive back to the original, we will try, but I'm not sure if vB has that power, so no promises.

1) Why did you move the corrected topics out here?

Because Korran's still entitled to have his threads answered properly and consisely, without off-tangent rants which do happen on occasion. Better to do that than simply get rid of the threads and give him the feeling of having been swept under the carpet in the midst of all this.

2) And has the new person Korran been Pmed?

Was there something you wanted to PM him about? You can do this as well as I can. Once again, the staff is in no way affiliated with Tasha in this, so perhaps this question is best directed elsewhere.

[imported_Firebird1]

OK, so you don't like anything off tangent.


Very Well, let me ask you this...

1) If you got mad at a thread, would you delete it even if it contained no flaming, only if you got mad at it?

[TheHolo.Net]

The poster you are inquiring about didn’t even visit the board yesterday, using the name that the topic in question displays, as per my control panel.

2001-10-26 16:48:19

That time would still be Mountain Daylight time, and is straight out of my control panel.

The thread was “moved” to the staff forum with the permission of who you mentioned in your previous post. I have the IM transcript if you would like to see it.


Originally posted by Firebird1
I'm sorry, but I did not see the need to erease every reply. For example: Dara did post the links to the FAQ and the other Relevant Information. Now the links are still there, but the original post that contained them is gone. You could of just deleted everything below that post, but you went way too far on that.

The posts were not deleted in any fashion other than the fact that they were moved to a non public forum for the entire SWFANS staff to discuss and decide how best to deal with. As you yourself said, it had become a stressful situation, which I had attempted to diffuse with my posts to it, with no success.

All posts were then split from the thread, showing no favoritism to anyone, which in a way sounds like what you are asking us to do. Treat someone differently than anyone else in that thread, by stating that Dara’s post was an example of your opinion of what should not have been removed. An opinion, which you are free to have and I am not condoning, merely explaining our position.

As for PMing the new user; Why should the staff of SWFANS be responsible for contacting a poster by a means that we are not even certain that he/she knows how to use? We provide the FAQ to answer any relevant questions they may have, and beyond that a poster is free to ask any other questions which it does not cover within topics here.

[imported_Firebird1]

You can't expect everyone to come to the board everyday. It is Sunday after all.

Anyways about PMing him. Well you deleated his thread basicaly, and I was hoping that someone would PM him, not the Admin staff, but anyone. Sorry if it sounded like a direct request.

Anyways if you wanted to be fair about the issue, you should of just deleted the whole thing and PMed him, it would of saved you about ten minutes of time, and two posts.

As for using Dara as an example, well she did do the right thing, what Sanis is doing now in that thread.

Anyways before I get to the hard questioning, I'd like to explain why I'm doing this. I am a member of a group that RPs here and I don't like what I'm seeing. I don't like the fact that many little circles are going on. And in these little circles the people hate those on the outside. And there is a Circle running the place, heck they have been called 'The Elite' for some reason. They are from various groups and they basicaly run the Roleplaying board.

But one thing I have noticed is that this 'Elite' really doesn't like changes. So they like to keep things like they are. But one problem is that without change. So when a new person comes in here for the first time in a while (meaning that he came here first, not TSE, GJO, TSO, ect...) and did not know where to post correctly and his typing had problems. It was just a matter of time for this to happen, the kid got slammed by someone. And then to add insult to injury those that tried to defend him were waved off by this 'Elite'. And even when someone did the right thing, she got waved off by this 'Elite' as well. And finally to add insult to injury, the posts were deleted, except the thread stayed the same. It's not off topic, but it has been wronged like nothing I have seen in a while. It has been Censored....To a point that it benifits only one party.

Now I'm sure that people around here don't ask for much, except freedom for thier characters to do what they want. Except I can't see how that can happen when stuff like this could happen on the other two forums. Just the fact that these two threads have been edited to the point they would of been better off deleted and Korran just Pmed about it. The fact is now we can't even know what else has been done behind our backs. To sum it all up I don't know or care what you were thinking, but in those threads last night there were many responses that said that the Admin were doing the wrong thing. And I also have two people who blame this event on a group of people, and they feel powerless to change it. So what can the average poster do? Complain to the people who run the group, which many of them (two in TSE on the Council for example) they may not be able to trust. Or do they come here and ask why some of these things are happening, and get treated like this.

One more question:
Are you having fun?

I am sick of dealing with people being so paranoid that they can't calm down. I am sick of watching stuff like this happen and no one feels like they can do anything. I'm sick of not being able to RP the way I want because I might make someone else mad to the point that they would come after me with 10 alt ID's, a few of their friends, and a copy of the rules. And finally I'm sick of watching people dissapear because they are afraid of what could happen if they said the wrong thing. So I ask everyone if they are having fun, because I sure aint!

[Sanis Prent]

Firebird, for the last time...those threads were moved under Dara's agreement on the matter. Nothing was done behind the poster's backs, and warning was even given prior to such an action.

To be frank, I've heard alot more intriguing conspiracy theories. I'm sure we can be a little more constructive than to offer up trite accusations.

[imported_Firebird1]

I'm just reporting what I'm hearing. And I've heard it too many times to ignore.

[Sanis Prent]

thats why they call it hearsay.

[TheHolo.Net]

You can't expect everyone to come to the board everyday. It is Sunday after all.Never said I expected them to. I was merely pointing out a fact. Why must you assume things that I did not say?
Anyways about PMing him. Well you deleated his thread basicaly, and I was hoping that someone would PM him, not the Admin staff, but anyone. Sorry if it sounded like a direct request.The thread was not deleted. This statement makes no sense.
Anyways if you wanted to be fair about the issue, you should of just deleted the whole thing and PMed him, it would of saved you about ten minutes of time, and two posts.I feel deleting his post would be unfair to him/her. My opinion is different than yours.
As for using Dara as an example, well she did do the right thing, what Sanis is doing now in that thread.So, are you saying that someone did the wrong thing? I sure don’t think so, beyond the fact that an argument resulting in censored cuss words from some that were not so civil, ensued because not everyone shares your, or other’s opinions.
Anyways before I get to the hard questioning, I'd like to explain why I'm doing this. I am a member of a group that RPs here and I don't like what I'm seeing. I don't like the fact that many little circles are going on. And in these little circles the people hate those on the outside. And there is a Circle running the place, heck they have been called 'The Elite' for some reason. They are from various groups and they basicaly run the Roleplaying board. When was this group called the “Elite”? I sure haven’t seen any of the staff call themselves that, but I do see you doing it, and I get the impression that others may be doing the same thing, based on nothing more than assumptions.
But one problem is that without change. So when a new person comes in here for the first time in a while (meaning that he came here first, not TSE, GJO, TSO, ect...) and did not know where to post correctly and his typing had problems. It was just a matter of time for this to happen, the kid got slammed by someone.The only person whom I saw get slammed in that thread was Tasha and then a member of our staff when one of TSE’s members caused the vBulletin software censors to edit his post. The same person that basically flamed Tasha but was allowed to without edit or deletion until the topic kept going, rehashing the same argument.
Now I'm sure that people around here don't ask for much, except freedom for thier characters to do what they want. Except I can't see how that can happen when stuff like this could happen on the other two forums. Just the fact that these two threads have been edited to the point they would of been better off deleted and Korran just Pmed about it. The fact is now we can't even know what else has been done behind our backs. To sum it all up I don't know or care what you were thinking, but in those threads last night there were many responses that said that the Admin were doing the wrong thing.I was the only Admin to post in that thread and did nothing beyond try to diffuse the issue and request that the pointless arguments stop. You said yourself that the threads were a source of stress. I attempted to resolve that stress. Perhaps you don’t agree with my choice, but I still stand by it, the thread was not edited to the point that it is better off deleted. It was edited to the point where it would not be a source of further arguments for a new poster to see within his harmless “Hello” thread.
And I also have two people who blame this event on a group of people, and they feel powerless to change it. So what can the average poster do? Complain to the people who run the group, which many of them (two in TSE on the Council for example) they may not be able to trust. Or do they come here and ask why some of these things are happening, and get treated like this.I still fail to see how anyone was mistreated, everyone was treated completely the same, by having all the posts in the thread removed, besides the one made by the original poster. My own, Sanis’ Tasha’s, Dara’s and anyone else who posted in that thread.
I am sick of dealing with people being so paranoid that they can't calm down. I am sick of watching stuff like this happen and no one feels like they can do anything. I'm sick of not being able to RP the way I want because I might make someone else mad to the point that they would come after me with 10 alt ID's, a few of their friends, and a copy of the rules. And finally I'm sick of watching people dissapear because they are afraid of what could happen if they said the wrong thing. So I ask everyone if they are having fun, because I sure aint!I hear nor see any evidence of any of what you said there. No one has been attacked by a multitude of ALT characters as you put it and no threads or posts have simply been removed because one of the staff didn’t like it. How many assumptions without backing will you make?

And lastly; If you are not having fun, then why be here at all? I see no one threatening you that this is the only forum that you can post at. I see no one stopping you or the “paranoid” people from going out, purchasing your own software and host site and creating your own forum for RP, or creating one with the fee service ezboard provides. Its all about choice. I, nor anyone else have taken away your right of choice and it will not happen.

[Champion of the Force]

Couldn't you all have PMed the New person?

And has the new person Korran been Pmed?

... and I was hoping that someone would PM him
The PM feature is less than reliable to use for communicating, especially with newer posters. The reason is because its default setup is to simply leave the PMs in their message box until the poster actually views them in their own time.

Add to this the fact that we're on a fairly new board with people still learning the ropes as well as the fact the individual was a new poster, PMing would not have been a good way to communicate IMHO.

My 2 cents.

[imported_Firebird1]

When was this group called the “Elite”? I sure haven’t seen any of the staff call themselves that, but I do see you doing it, and I get the impression that others may be doing the same thing, based on nothing more than assumptions.

Well thats why it was in the quotation marks, it wasn't an official name. It was just given.

Well, do these people have a reason to be making such assumptions? How many groups is Sanis in again, how many groups are you in? How much of the plans I would like to share would be leaked? How many times must I see this happen over and over again?



And lastly; If you are not having fun, then why be here at all? I see no one threatening you that this is the only forum that you can post at. I see no one stopping you or the “paranoid” people from going out, purchasing your own software and host site and creating your own forum for RP, or creating one with the fee service ezboard provides. Its all about choice. I, nor anyone else have taken away your right of choice and it will not happen

Well, I won't leave, unless you ban me that is. I would rather see this fixed. There is nothing I can do about last night, but I can make sure it won't happen again. I don't care if you all think you did the right thing. The fact of the matter is that you decided to do something that was frightening. And it has people even more mad then last night, well me anyway.

You said that you let people express their opinions, but are you listening to it? I can only give suggestions, like creating a form letter that can be sent out with everyone who regresters pointing out the FAQ and other information. But will you act on it, will you care?

That is the problem, like the fleet rule changes that are being shoved down our throats. It's like you all want it, but not everyone thinks thats best. And yet I see that peoples arguments and comments being shot down like they are nothing, and not by much either.

But perhaps your right, these people I'm listening too don't have any reason for this. Those posts last night were not any indicater on what people are feeling here at SWFans and at their groups. But however, why are they calling the people who run these forums 'The Elite'. Why do they feel that nothing they say can change your mind, or make things better?

Maybe they have seen where this leads, or heard of places like it that have gone the way SWFans is going. Maybe (like me) have watched places online fall apart. And many of them may feel slighted because of problems because the Admins may dislike them. But we all have one thing in common, to see this place survive.

[Champion of the Force]

Ok, call me moron, but that one went WAY over my head. :\

I guess I'll retreat to the Boxoffice forum again.

:: flees ::

[Arya Ravenwing]

How many groups is Sanis in again, how many groups are you in? How much of the plans I would like to share would be leaked? How many times must I see this happen over and over again?

I fail to see how this has anything to do with your so called "elite" group of RPers. Many people are in more than one group. This seems to be a discrimination against the way people with multiple nicks RP ...the very thing that you are crying out against.

If people are in multiple groups, or in positions of "power," like leaders of a group, or moderators or admins of a board, it is because they have proved themselves trustworthy.

Oh, and btw, this is Lilaena De'Ville under one of my other names. Just so there isn't any confusion.

And the only thing that bothers me about last night is this question: Why can't we just move on? It seems to have been dealt with in a manner that is fair to both "sides." So leave well enough alone... please?

[TheHolo.Net]

Well, do these people have a reason to be making such assumptions? How many groups is Sanis in again, how many groups are you in? How much of the plans I would like to share would be leaked? How many times must I see this happen over and over again?I can’t speak for Sanis, but I can say with complete honesty that I am a member of only a single group and it has been that way for me during almost my entire tenure here at this family of boards, except for the very short period I had a character by the name of Milstran Cophenaar at ImpIntel.
Well, I won't leave, unless you ban me that is. I would rather see this fixed. There is nothing I can do about last night, but I can make sure it won't happen again. I don't care if you all think you did the right thing. The fact of the matter is that you decided to do something that was frightening. And it has people even more mad then last night, well me anyway.I don’t know why you are so frightened, you had no replies in that thread. The person with the highest amount of replies in that thread was talked to by me personally, and I received her permission to move the thread. Nothing was done behind anyone’s back. That accusation has no substance.
You said that you let people express their opinions, but are you listening to it? I can only give suggestions, like creating a form letter that can be sent out with everyone who regresters pointing out the FAQ and other information. But will you act on it, will you care?How many topics have you seen me post asking for opinins in just the last month? I’ll bet there are at least five of them if not more, in this very forum, and several of them lead to things occurring as posters suggested. Again you are making accusations with no evidence or backing, only conclusions you are drawing because you seem angry.
That is the problem, like the fleet rule changes that are being shoved down our throats. It's like you all want it, but not everyone thinks thats best. And yet I see that peoples arguments and comments being shot down like they are nothing, and not by much either.The fleet rules are not being shoved down anyone’s throat, they are still in “DRAFT” form and we are currently still working under the old rules until the time that Tondry Sanis, and those that they will affect hash them out and come to an agreement. People are being listened to from what I have seen and the staff is being patient and not forcing anything on anyone. It seems to me by your thinking it being forced down your throat and by your earlier post to this thread that patience is something you lack, when you expected an immediate response to this thread, which I could not do because I was out to dinner with my family.
But perhaps your right, these people I'm listening too don't have any reason for this. Those posts last night were not any indicater on what people are feeling here at SWFans and at their groups. But however, why are they calling the people who run these forums 'The Elite'. Why do they feel that nothing they say can change your mind, or make things better?People disagree it’s a fact of life, but can people accept that they disagree? That was the only problem I saw last night. That some were trying to force others to conclude that their opinions were the “right” opinions, on both sides of the argument.

[Sanis Prent]

How many groups is Sanis in again, how many groups are you in?

How many groups are you in, Firebird? Does it matter? Aldridge Ames was a citizen of the United States, yet committed the largest act of espionage in history for the Soviet Union, a nation he had no affiliation with. Whats to stop you from selling out TSE because you get some kind of OOC grudge? The fact of the matter is, that entire comment has absolutely no bearing on anything remotely related to this argument, and is a shade shy of being libel, and quite frankly, its not the first time I've heard such from you. If you have a point, make it, but mod, admin, or regular poster, those are pretty unfounded, baseless, and slanderous things you're playing with. For somebody who's defending a newbie from getting his grammar questioned, its a hideous double standard.


Well, I won't leave, unless you ban me that is.

So the martyr complex is still an alive & kicking psychological phenomenon. Rest assured, the staff here is not that childish.


And it has people even more mad then last night, well me anyway.

Yes, we have established that "people" = "you". We can only operate efficiently with concrete information, not generalizations and hearsay. Whatever rumors you want to bring to the table will not be acted on, period. Thats not what we do. We operate on true consensus, facts, and established procedure. Gossip does not enter into it.


You said that you let people express their opinions, but are you listening to it?

We're inclined to let you express, and to listen. Agreeing is another matter, and please do not confuse them.


I can only give suggestions, like creating a form letter that can be sent out with everyone who regresters pointing out the FAQ and other information. But will you act on it, will you care?

Actually a very good idea. Glad I could glean a nugget of constructive criticism out of your post. I'll discuss this for consideration.


That is the problem, like the fleet rule changes that are being shoved down our throats.

Nothing has been finalized, and discussions are still being implemented. Tondry is currently working on discussing the matter with members of TSE and TGE to my knowledge, so exercise some patience in the matter. A wholly unpopular fleet proposal won't be amended, I can assure you of that. If the consensus wants to keep the 250 meter rule, then thats their prerogative.


But perhaps your right, these people I'm listening too don't have any reason for this. Those posts last night were not any indicater on what people are feeling here at SWFans and at their groups. But however, why are they calling the people who run these forums 'The Elite'. Why do they feel that nothing they say can change your mind, or make things better?

The only one mentioning anything of "Elite" is yourself. Once again, we do not act on gossip, rumor, and hearsay. If you want to be productive, offer up names of other like-minded constituents, and concrete problems, and concrete solutions. Until then, you are part of the problem, and not part of the solution.


But we all have one thing in common, to see this place survive.

Then learn to be constructive. The opposite only leads to destruction.

[imported_Dara Shadowtide]

I would have to agree with Firebird's sentiments regarding general atmosphere around the swfans board here since the move. Now regarding the specific threads last night, I am pleased to see Korran finally extended the proper welcome he should have received in the first place. Sometimes people just need to employ more tact in dealing with people.. words are a powerful medium and without the benefit of inflection and voice tone, the meanings can easily be misconstrued. I think all new posters should be welcomed to the community in a kind manner as this is supposed to be a game for fun.

As a board staff I would respectfully submit to you to perhaps appoint someone or a committee of posters to welcome new posters if your time does not allow for you to do so. As a veteran of the boards for over a year now, I would volunteer to assist in that matter if you would like and I'm sure there are others out there too that would volunteer. But, I will continue to voice my opinion if I see a newbie being treated in such a short, crass manner as I saw yesterday. In fact, I would like to challenge the staff to be on the lookout for and put a stop to any behavior on the boards like this so that it is equal and fun for all.

I don't see FB making any assumptions, I simply see the matter at hand being swept under the rug once again. This is a message board community on behalf of the posters who love to roleplay and talk about Star Wars, not to be reminded when we speak up about something that concerns us that we should go purchase our own software since someone bought this place for the board to come to. If that matter had been brought to the forefront then perhaps some of us would have stayed with ezboard. Random censorship and a lack for some people to be able to give their opinions is absurd and an affront to the community who followed the board here. The issue of how people are treated here needs to be addressed, to move on is to ignore the problem...

[ReaperFett]

3) Couldn't you all PMed the New person involved about his grammer instead of having someone post there?

Couldnt you have PMed an admin about this?

[TheHolo.Net]

Post removed - David

[Sanis Prent]

Random censorship and a lack for some people to be able to give their opinions is absurd and an affront to the community who followed the board here.

Now apply this thought to the situation with Tasha, and take a moment of your time to live in our shoes.

No, we can't make everybody happy, and in the process of making a delicious omelette, your egg shell got cracked. I'm sorry, but thats the way of democracy. Happens to me too. We can't completely appease everybody, but what we can do is appease the consensus, and keep the shell-cracking to a minimum.

Now, you and Firebird have both produced some good ideas in this post, and thats a positive step. I like Firebird's idea for a virtual roadmap to be put in the email people get when they create an account. That would be very helpful.

And Dara, your idea for a welcoming committee is also a very good idea, and worthy of implementing. I'm sure we could get a group of dedicated individuals who would be happy to do such a thing, because sometimes the daily routine does keep folks from taking time to smell the roses, or shake hands with newbies.

I'll do my best to see about implementing both of these, by bringing it up for discussion with both staff and general posters. Hopefully we'll get something feasible running by Friday. Both should help our growing pains problems...and make the new blood happy :)

[Novi Paran]

Ogre,

Don't you believe granting confidentially to all personal conversations no matter what is said. I found that last post obscene and lacking good taste. I thought administrators would be more diplomatic than to go so LOW. Well Dara must have invested alot of trust in you and you failed her. Not to mention how unnecessary and meaningless your last post was. Look up the words 'Tact'; 'trust'; and 'integrity' buddy. Hmmm... I will have to make a note of that. I never want to see something like that again.

[ReaperFett]

obscene? It was hardly about pornography man.

[TheHolo.Net]

Dara IM’d me last evening regarding administration of this forum. I would think it a known thing that such a conversation could be kept and posted here on this forum as a show of honesty. I was nothing more than honest and true to my opinion.

[Novi Paran]

What a disgrace! I demand you delete you last post, Ogre! It has breeched trust and confidentiality. REMOVE IT!

[Sanis Prent]

Novi,

In the sphere of personal matters, this would be true. However, the conversation is on the context of forum administration and board matters. As an Admin, such conversations are also utilities to be used, and cannot be granted the same scope of a private conversation.

If the conversation was of a private nature, I too would not appreciate such being posted publically. However, the nature of the exchange is important.

[Novi Paran]

Reaper,

That was infantile. The bottom line is a private conversation was posted in a public forum. Makes me wonder which Administrators I can trust!

[TheHolo.Net]

There is no breech of trust or confidentiality. She never requsted the conversation be private. There were other parts of the conversation that were personal, which I did omit. The end of the conversation was not related to the context of this thread. I can and will agree to edit her IM name in the transcript, but not the content.

[imported_Firebird1]

Well that was about 24 hours ago. And what has happened since then? Alot, things can change even faster then that.
And besides Dara thought that would fix the problem. Did it fix it? No it mearly compounded it, which brought me into the issue.
Now there are two ways of solving this, one is a form letter that is sent along with the users password, the other is to create a welcome wagon of sorts. I see no problem with either. Both are good ideas which deserve a topic devoted to each.

But why am I being told to be quiet, don't rock the boat. I didn't come here to rock the boat, I came here to see what happened to those two threads, and ask questions. But I think that the general lack of trust around here is insulting. I mean it's like fighting a wall that you can't damage in anyway. But that wall which keeps the water at bay also has some holes in it, and I don't see anymore fingers that can stop the flood of distrust that will destroy this place. I'm sorry if you think some of the things I've said tonight are wrong and incorrect. But some others are not saying them, and their fingers are getting tired and they are ready to make the wall fall.

Now Reaper, why did I post this here? I could of taken this through PM and solved all of it, but then who would know about this? Only a few people, and it really would not of gotten anything off of my chest. If you were in my shoes I'd like to think that you would not stay quiet about this. I can't do that anymore, I can't sit there and listen as people complain. I can't just watch people who I trust tell me about what others are doing. You can quote me, you can take this apart down to the letters that were typed in. But you can't stop the fact that people are mad.

But I degress off topic. Here is what should of happened when Korran posted.
1) Someone should of welcomed him, first and formost!
2) Someone should of given him the links for the FAQ and Database.
3) Then it diverges from here If he would of joined a group, they would of helped him with his grammer and spelling and typing ect..
<center>or </center>
A private PM/Email/Whatever could of been sent to him if he went alone by a Mod or Admin.

Simple, easy, so why was this simple bit of logic not followed? Why was he told that his typing sucked? Why was his WazzzUP thread first moved and then when someone did the right thing was it taken as a something that wasn't needed.
We can solve this and cut through all of this and solve this problem.

And Sanis.... No people does not mean me, it means things I saw last night and things I'm seeing tonight. I do not like the things I'm seeing period. I do not like them, Sam I am. Green Eggs is one of the many things this forum is not made out of. And I don't want to see it torn apart any more then you do. So, what do we do now, do I have to go get a bucket and start throwing this water back in, or can we find a way to remove the sea from the wall?

[Taylor Millard]

Originally posted by Dara Shadowtide
I would have to agree with Firebird's sentiments regarding general atmosphere around the swfans board here since the move.

How so? I, personally, have talked to plenty of people who're happy with the board. And I'm pretty pleased as well. Sure there have been some annoying shut downs, but they've normally been fixed in a timely fashion. Have you seen EzBoard, recently? I have yet to log onto a page, w/o having to refresh it atleast once, cause it goes down. I've been quite happy here.

What does it matter how many groups Sanis is a part of? Does he ever use OOC knowledge for other characters? Given my talking with him I doubt it.

Now as for the Fleet Guidelines. "Shoved down our throats"? HUH? Not that I've noticed. People have had concerns about them and discussed them. The only problem I saw was two posters (who will remain nameless for now), who began sending insults towards each other and talking how, "Oh I need a nemesis. Oh you're it!'. I, myself, asked a question and got it answered.

I've just started Fleet RPing, in my own personal threads. This ship building and stuff, the rules were modified because it was discovered a group was cheating (heavily, I think) on ship building. Thus the new forum (and two new mod posistions) were created to assist with the new forum. I got no problems with that.

Now as for Tasha, were they blunt? Yes. Were they, less than friendly? Sure, but is that a problem? No. Bluntness doesn't mean they're not a nice person. This happens to be a good RPer who didn't what threads interupted because someone messed up on their first post. It happens. And 'Whuzzup' is a personal thing, but I doubt it'd be said in Star Wars.

Is Korran Horn not coming back? I dunno, he may he might not. Doesn't mean one person drove him away. No, it IS Sunday after all. People have church to go to, work to go to, homework, football games (yes even sports fans like Star Wars), stuff like that.

And for the record. Those that were mad last night, were mad over IRL stuff, not this. And if they were mad on this stuff, they woulda said it more than just two posters. So chill, please?

I'm not a mod or admin, but I do have opinions and I do support what they're doing.

[Novi Paran]

Sanis... the post was unnecessary and meaningless! We trust word of mouth more than you think, especially since Dara did not argue the statements made previously about granting permission to move the thread. I find the content of the Ogre and Dara exchange too private to posted here in a public forum. Dara deserves to be granted confidentiality. I know everyone here would agree to that if they were in Dara's position.

[imported_Firebird1]

Taylor, weither EZboard works or not is for another time. I'd rather see that this problem be fixed, that we have some way of welcoming people aboard.

[Jedah Lynch]

When was this group called the "Elite"? I sure haven't seen any of the staff call themselves that, but I do see you doing it, and I get the impression that others may be doing the same thing, based on nothing more than assumptions.

Of course the staff doesn't call itself elite. Seriously doubt few people would want to even sterotype themselves so.

However I do believe that Firebird was getting to the point that sometimes there have instances where a group of individuals have come off due to their actions of way of speaking to some as being a tightly woven "group" that backs each other up on more then one occasion.

There have been instances where some things did come to light or threads made available to show that there were indeed people in different groups who some times acted in a way that could come off badly due to how they bonded. Not that friendship is often a bad thing however at times it did seem such friendship has been used or abused in some cases at the boards, be it swfans or other.

Its not that those people mean to come off badly in a way that could be perceived by others as ignorant, arrogant, snobbish and self serving but some times thats exactly what has happened. Usually it has been due to certain words exchanged between some and actions by others at times that were far too coincidental to be random.

It has not been a large problem for some time, yet it does remain or linger, if the problems have been mostly solved its due to the fact some listened to each other and spoke with the other person instead of speaking at.

Know I'm being very vague on some of these subjects but also know some have heard or dealt with them enough in the past and seeing how did spend a considerable amount of time that turned into months trying to mend some things that happened in the past do not wish to needlessly drag out old wounds for some or open up new ones for others have largely nothing to do with.


Maybe they have seen where this leads, or heard of places like it that have gone the way SWFans is going. Maybe (like me) have watched places online fall apart. And many of them may feel slighted because of problems because the Admins may dislike them. But we all have one thing in common, to see this place survive.

That is very true.

There have been times where some admins or mods do come off hostile against certain posters. But then some posters come off hostile against fellow posters as well. Its mostly due to differences in opinion or how to RP or how to do things. This whole thread is an example of one such case.

Got a good idea of one place FB is talking about, we both post there from time to time, its troubles began when much like at swfans a group of people bonded so tight the most they ever did was interact with each other while ignoring or outright insulting other peoples opinions. It was a change of character that slowly happened but became evident never the less, mostly it was the people who ran the board and those that supported them, people who pushed things and got away with certain post that would have gained some to be banned while others who spoke out against this change were silenced by bannings or buried by insults or long well spoken post that simply said the person was wrong.

Some of us have seen the early or mid stages of that happening here, despite hoping it would correct itself it has yet to do as such fully, we know there may be nothing we can do about it, that by speaking out we may in fact be damning ourselves in the process but it does not mean we wont be silent or hide from those who call us paranoid or assuming things. One can not assume when they see the every changes in how a person acts or behaves. When I first returned last christmas after a three month absence I saw the changes and how different things were, at first thought some were bitter about perhaps one or two things. More I looked, listened and saw the more did see there was a increase in a group of posters allying with themselves while patting each other on the back for every "RP novel" they did on the boards, while turning away from various others who did not share the same view points or were not friends with their own set of friends. It's basically the High School syndrome where you got your in crowd and those not in it.


I fail to see how this has anything to do with your so called "elite" group of RPers. Many people are in more than one group. This seems to be a discrimination against the way people with multiple nicks RP ...the very thing that you are crying out against.

Do believe he is expressing his frustration in something he perceives to be a problem. Yes many are in several groups, some find such things a disaster waiting to happen due to issues of security if not "team ups" against some using their various alts to get what they want. While others state they do it for fun and to broaden their horizons RP wise. Seen enough to know both cases are true at various times and its rather difficult to peg some as doing such things with malice intent when they may indeed be RPing for fun on certain occasions.

Back to the issue at hand, this whole thread might not have been started if FB or those who had their post removed were notified first. If they were notified then there isn't really an issue with the subject although it could have been handled in a more efficient manner that was indeed constructive.

It is hardly constructive though to post an aim transcript in public as such, the issue of Dara talking with an admin could have been said to be available if NEEDED to prove she had been contacted, it really did not need to be posted:/

Overall if this thread does not prove some further communication needs to be had not sure what does.

[imported_Dara Shadowtide]

First of all.. I want to make it clear that moving the threads and replacing them with a 'different version' are two distinct things. Regardless of the words used in the 'replacement thread', it still implies censorship, as one person was allowed to greet Korran and not others... regardless of ones moderator status, it still implies censorship.

Secondly.. I am not just concerned about the incident last night being 'swept under the rug', but also the discussion started by Firebird regarding the general attitude towards newbie posters and the air of elitism.

Thirdly.. I was not informed by you Ogre that a private IM conversation would be posted on swfans without my knowledge. Had I intended to ask you in public, I would have posted a thread that said.. "HEY OGRE!" in here. Any assumption on your part that I knew you would save and post our private conversation is only just that, an assumption, and I would like to suggest something being added to the FAQ so that others are not surprised as I just was.. Now my comments in the IM were only that it is up to you what you did with the thread.. and that is correct from my perspective. As a regular poster I have no control or say in what you do as an admin. You were going to move the thread anyway so my opinion mattered little, as it had most of the evening..

[TheHolo.Net]

I have no control or say in what you do as an admin. You were going to move the thread anyway so my opinion mattered little, as it had most of the evening.. And you come to this conclusion how? If that were the case, why would I have bothered asking you.

[Lady Vader]

And here I thought we were mature beings.

I don't know about you all, but I am seeing a lot of lip-flapping in this thread. Personally, I think it's a minor problem turned into a "life and death" deal.

Do you honestly think we should be arguing and going back and forth, stressing people out, angering others, irritating, etc, all because of this???

So, we screw up. We learn. We move on. That's human nature. And lemme break it to you all... we are ALL human.

Personally, I hate to see things like this at a board I go to to escape such things.

So... LET'S MOVE ON! Let's END THE ARGUING!

Let's actually get back to the REAL reason why we're here. To have fun. To build stories. To escape our everyday, mundane activities. Let's go play, dammit!

[Sanis Prent]

But why am I being told to be quiet, don't rock the boat.

Nobody's told you to keep quiet. It would never work, anyways. Besides, you've offered at least one constructive idea with only a couple of instances of hearsay and libel, so there's still enough merit to hear you out.


But I think that the general lack of trust around here is insulting.

I agree, but analyze the direction this distrust is being aimed.



But that wall which keeps the water at bay also has some holes in it, and I don't see anymore fingers that can stop the flood of distrust that will destroy this place. I'm sorry if you think some of the things I've said tonight are wrong and incorrect. But some others are not saying them, and their fingers are getting tired and they are ready to make the wall fall.

Remember what I said about constructive vs destructive. You're not helping with this trite melodrama.



Now Reaper, why did I post this here? I could of taken this through PM and solved all of it, but then who would know about this?

If the problem is solved, then why broadcast it to everybody in the first place? Sensationalism and thread views don't equate to progress, but heaven forbid we move this to a private venue, lest the cries of "censorship" "fascism" and "Nazism" take us by storm. In the same shoe, Ogre's convo with Dara should fit right in...otherwise, who would know about it, right? We don't want to censor too much.


But I degress off topic. Here is what should of happened when Korran posted.
1) Someone should of welcomed him, first and formost!
2) Someone should of given him the links for the FAQ and Database.
3) Then it diverges from here If he would of joined a group, they would of helped him with his grammer and spelling and typing ect..

or

A private PM/Email/Whatever could of been sent to him if he went alone by a Mod or Admin.

And if If's and But's were candy and nuts, we'd all have a wonderful Christmas.

Point is, that its behind us, and hindsight is 20/20. This complaint was not voiced to any other newbie among the plethora who have joined here, so I can only assume you are inspired by such graces of Murphy's Law. You cite what is in the past, and I think we all know this. Its done, however, and we've already moved on to providing the solution. No need to even ponder the "what ifs".




Why was he told that his typing sucked? Why was his WazzzUP thread first moved and then when someone did the right thing was it taken as a something that wasn't needed.

Once again, you are assuming the staff had something to do with Tasha's statement. For the last time, we have nothing to do with that user, and if you continue to bring that up, its only going to detract from other points you're trying to bolster. Save that question for Tasha, and leave it out of this completely. And as for the thread being moved...it was moved due to concerns of problems from both posters and staff, and was agreed to be moved by both posters and staff. It was unilateral, and not some "conspiracy" as you seem to want to suggest.


And Sanis.... No people does not mean me

Perhaps, and perhaps not. Hearsay remains so until confirmed by a third party. We'll keep this matter open for others to speak their minds on.

Firebird, you and Dara have both offered up good ideas, and despite how nebulous your arguments may be on the matter, we will work on implementing these, because they are good ideas. Whatever else may come of this, whatever melodrama is being sought, or other such things...they are currently not constructive, and if you want to help instead of hurt this forum, I suggest you continue with suggestions, and cease accusations....especially when bolstered by hearsay and libel.

Keep the suggestions flowing, though. Thats exactly how you put your staff to work on your behalf.

[Champion of the Force]

NOTICE:

Myself and Ogre have discussed his posting of his IM chat with Dara and we have both agreed to remove it due to its apparent offending nature to some posters.

Apologies for any confusion or mishap as a result of the removal. Please don't uses this as an oppurtunity to start analysing its removal, but instead try and keep this discussion on the topic at hand.

Thanks. :)

David - fellow SWFans admin

[ReaperFett]

Ironic how similar people can say "Dont hide this!" and "Keep this private!". Could it just be you want to do whichever gives you the chance to moan?

[Champion of the Force]

One thing's for sure - this has become the hot topic of the moment:

http://www.knarma.f2s.com/pictures/online.jpg

[Darth Havok]

I would say it's called putting on a face Fett. Serving the need and purpose at that time.. (this is not directed at anyone in particular, I think nearly everyone is guilty of this one time or another, even myself)

A constructive idea, maybe?

I think everyone needs to put all their ‘pretty (vague) words’ aside, and just flat out say what they feel.. About whoever, or whatever they dislike..

Then something can be done about this, so we won’t be dancing along in the sea of vagueness until we all turn blue in the face, and drown.. I would hate to see it come to that, but for the sake of this coming to some type of closure..

[Lady Vader]

Finally! A voice of reason in a sea of turmoil!

I'd like nothing more than to see this argument terminated.

So, enough back and forthing. Just say what you need to and be done with it.


(And I'll keep posting about stopping this argument, even to the point of becoming annoying. I can't stand to watch people argue. Drives me batty!)

[Champion of the Force]

I think everyone needs to put all their ‘pretty (vague) words’ aside, and just flat out say what they feel.. About whoever, or whatever they dislike..
So well said it needs to be repeated again!

Really, half of this stuff is going way over our heads. Enough of the vagueness and give some decent stuff to debate please, for all our sakes. :)

EDIT:

Hahaha - it seems Lady vader beat me too the punch. Oh well, the more the merrier.

I wouldn't argue for this all to stop however. Some good stuff is coming out of it already. even as we speak Ogre has pulled out the e-mail code used for sending posters their registration information and we're looking at improving it based on Firebird's suggestions. :)

[Lady Vader]

Amen to that, Kar. :)

[Champion of the Force]

Amen to that, Kar.
That's it - I need another name.

I just don't feel comfortable with people calling me 'Kar'. I'll have to get something more personal.

Like David. I think that'll be a nice name. :)

[Lady Vader]

Er, would it be better if I said:

Amen to that, Doniash. :)

?

Well, come to think of it, David would sound better. So...

Amen to that, David. :D

[Champion of the Force]

Er, would it be better if I said:

Amen to that, Doniash. :)
Not really - in my time on SWFans, and when I wasn't being called a Nazi, Censor bigot or Freedom rapist, I have been mainly referred to as either David, Dvd, or Atreyu. :)

'Kar' is just foreign to me and I don't respond to it as well. Besides, there's a 'Carr' in the Boxoffice forum so it can get confusing.

I could go back to DvdJervs, but I think people have too many bad memories of that guy. :lol

[Sanis Prent]

As much as I'd like to do that, I also have to temper what I say and do with forum policy, and what is in the interests of the forum, not myself. Curse of the job, so I've found. While its good practice for the common poster (and I do encourage it), I think it would be inappropriate for a mod or admin to come out and call out a poster for being a "big giant piece of rancid, flaming poo".

In essence, it encourages a bit of schizophrenia, not that we don't already have some of that with our characters. In one sense, there is Charley, human being, with emotions, likes, dislikes, and all of the psychobabble herein.

In another scene, there is Charley, the moderator, who cannot be subject to such opinions, nor let them influence his official actions. He must be considerate of all posters, and all people, regardless of his human side's thoughts of otherwise.

I'll not mince words. There are some people here who have burned every last vestige of a bridge with me, and I abhor them completely. And they aren't oblivious to it, either. I told them in lengthier terms the same almost exactly six months ago. However...all this has to be put aside for me to provide representation to the posters of this forum. These same people will get the same treatment from me as anybody else, when I am speaking as a moderator here.

When I am not speaking as a moderator, I simply will not speak with them...ever. I've managed just fine for six months without doing so, and I can continue indefinitely without entangling myself in a personal debacle. Its something I chose to leave behind when I "change skins", so to speak.

In hindsight, its a bit of a downer to deal with. We all have our own peculiar personal likes and dislikes. We're human, we're unique. Its what we sentient types do....be different. However, being a mod demands that you level that playing field completely, and give everybody the same chance as everybody else.

So, in short...I must continue to remain impartial while speaking as a moderator. Frank personal issues don't and can't enter into it. :\

Never said I wasn't human.

[Figrin D'an]

I've been monitoring this thread for many hours now, and through all of the personal attacks and verbose replies, there seems to be one big issue at the core of this arguement.

There have been some pretty serious accusations made about elitism and 'circles' (ie. cliques) among those in positions of power on the board. This needs to be addressed now, or we're going to have a major problem just keeping this community in one piece.

There needs to be hard evidence, one way or the other, to generate any clarifcation on this. We're beyond euphemisms and back-room conversations. This needs to be laid on the table now.

So, to those making the accusations... present your case.

[Darth Havok]

I understand where your coming from Charley.. And now realize if you were to speak out like that, it would reflect negatively on your current responsibilities.. I respect your decision to remain impartial while speaking as a moderator..

And that is a great point Figrin, I agree the topic of the circles, and one’s labeled as the elite needs to be addressed appropriately and clearly..

[Champion of the Force]

Agreed - we can't hide behind misleading titles and vague arguements, we need to have it laid out so everyone is on the same wavelength.

[Jedah Lynch]

Ironic how similar people can say "Dont hide this!" and "Keep this private!". Could it just be you want to do whichever gives you the chance to moan?

Exactly what are you doing now?

Exactly what you just said.

Moaning.


Myself and Ogre have discussed his posting of his IM chat with Dara and we have both agreed to remove it due to its apparent offending nature to some posters.

Bravo, find something sensible, I salute the decision.


Do you honestly think we should be arguing and going back and forth, stressing people out, angering others, irritating, etc, all because of this???

Not because of this, no.

Its happening because the frustration over a long peroid of time after sitting back and watching it. People do make mistakes LV and overall yes we are all human, not sure what the reasons of anyone else might be for saying what they are. But human? Thats exactly why I'm saying what I have so far.

Do believe its possible to learn from the past and by looking at what is going on in the world around them they might be able to see more than they would normally bother to look at. Its about perception. The ability to learn and grow instead of being so comfortable with ones own position or situation they dont stand up for anything else until something happens to them or someone they know.



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think everyone needs to put all their ‘pretty (vague) words’ aside, and just flat out say what they feel.. About whoever, or whatever they dislike..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So well said it needs to be repeated again!

Really, half of this stuff is going way over our heads. Enough of the vagueness and give some decent stuff to debate please, for all our sakes.

*sips coffee*

Going to be a cold day in hell.

Hate to say it but going to need time to think on this one, not due to the lack of anything to say, but due to the fact of deciding what to say and how much.(that and its late)

Okay so thats vague:)

BTW one question, how much is being asked to be debated upon? Any and everything that a person might have issues with? Or just what has been dicussed in this thread? Is there any limits should not cross or go over?

When is said and done not sure if could be fully honest or post everything due to the fact do not wish to really hurt or feel as if betrayed somes trust. And overall do not intend too, the trust aspect at least. Not sure in any such circumstances can avoid "hurting" people.

BTW can we just call you Dave?

[Champion of the Force]

BTW can we just call you Dave?
Please. :)

<------------ points to new name. :D

[Novi Paran]

Addressed to all rpgers here:

I think all private communication between parties should remain private. Unless agreed upon by all those involved. It is a common decency all of us deserve. Not to mention the hurt, humiliation, and damage it can incur on a individual to have their confidential conversations made public. This is my final post on this thread. I hope. Great job of mediating, David and D'an!

[Serena Laran]

D'an? *applauds Sanis and Ogre too*

[imported_Firebird1]

I'm glad to see that one issue has been resolved. The changes to the Script Email will help newcommers to find their way when they get here.

As for being vague, well, it's the nature of topics like these. When one side thinks another is against them, it's kind of hard to keep it from becoming a flame war, so by keeping it a little on the imaginary side is good for constructive purposes. But since the topic of needing evidence has come up, give me a few days to do some reasearch and see what I can find. Also if anyone else has a problem with either the Admins actions on that night, or my own in this thread, please post here. Nothing can be changed unless you are willing to stand up for it. I can't help anyone if they just sit there angry and afraid to speak. So if you want, post your greviences here. Or you can IM me and I'll just add it to my pile of evidence, which I will present in a couple of days.

[ReaperFett]

Exactly what are you doing now?

Exactly what you just said.

Moaning.



Yeah, but Im not the one attacking admins



And Dav?

STOP CHANGING YOUR DAMN NAME! :)

[imported_Firebird1]

OK, one thread has been returned, and where is the other one?
Did you lose it?

[TheHolo.Net]

Give a person some time, just as we are giving you to present your evidence. Consideration would be good. I have given it to you, in returning them without you even requesting it.

[imported_Firebird1]

Sorry, I didn't mean to jump the gun.
Since I saw one I thought that the other might be there as well.

[Darth Havok]

I suppose since I brought the idea up to just flat out say what needs to be said, I’ll share my thoughts on this..

<blockquote type=cite><blockquote><hr>Posted by Jedah
BTW one question, how much is being asked to be debated upon? Any and everything that a person might have issues with? Or just what has been dicussed in this thread? Is there any limits should not cross or go over?
<hr></blockquote></blockquote>
I think anything that would hold backing should be debated/discussed. As for limits, I suppose that would be completely up to whoever was posting whatever they wanted to say.. I don’t think any limits should be placed on it, as that would be swaying back to the realm of non-clarity…
<blockquote type=cite><blockquote><hr>Posted by Jedah
When is said and done not sure if could be fully honest or post everything due to the fact do not wish to really hurt or feel as if betrayed somes trust. And overall do not intend too, the trust aspect at least. Not sure in any such circumstances can avoid "hurting" people.
<hr></blockquote></blockquote>
I think distrust is already felt, strongly by a lot of people here, including the posters and the staff of Swfans.. Being vague about it, I believe can almost be just as harmful as saying it all out in black and white.. Betrayal in my opinion would definitely be based on what it is that is actually brought up for the discussion.. And I also think in doing this, people may be hurt. But, no pain no gain. I think it matters on how we exactly go about this.. If we all just sit back and try to calmly talk through this, then it will be much more productive. I think outbursts of he said she said, he thinks she thinks should be avoided for the sake of all of us getting WAY to stressed out and blowing each other off..

[Dyne Darkforce]

As long as we have these many people going to a board of this magnitude, there are bound to be huge arguements. Its probably unavoidable for the most part, since people dont like to sit there and "take it". Also the fact that there are conflicting opinions between the various people posting at the board. Somewhere in the middle it just starts to become people trying to defend themselves from others posts. Then it turns into a loop with people going back and forth, back and forth. Although, this could have been solved in a more efficient manner. Damn people, its an RP board, not a matter of life and death.

[Nuriko Sha]

Damn you Ogre for making me read most of this. :lol Okay people, I didn't see what happened. Yes, people converge into "cliques"... it's a natural human thing to do. People who don't trust other people need to work out their own issues; I don't know what the hell's going on here. :lol Now if you don't mind, I believe I'm here to play a game. :D

[TheHolo.Net]

:angel




:wings

Wishes he could actually take the time to play the game but is so busy trying to make sense of this kind of thing that it is rather difficult. :\

[Sanis Prent]

I've disagreed with you before, Nuri...but hell, thats one thing I can agree with 100%.

(puts down valium and whiskey...then falls on his face)

damn...okay....I'll get back to RPing when I feel my legs. ^_^;

EDIT: Do we really need to see our sig in every post, especially in the OOC forum? :p

[Nuriko Sha]

All right! Open season!! ::has various small forest creatures do obscene actions with Sanis' legs:: :D

[Sanis Prent]

(Slides the devastating MIDOL shell into shell gun)

I got your number now, ya bitch! :smokin

[Dyne Darkforce]

Now this is an interesting turn of events. O_o

[Dalethria Mal Pannis]

bad sanis!

One should not joke about such things as midol and what it is used for!

[Sanis Prent]

(eats another valium, and Daley becomes an aardvark)

O_o

[Dalethria Mal Pannis]

ativan is betta

[Dyne Darkforce]

Now this is what im talking about, looneyness. :crack :)

[Sanis Prent]

(the aardvark speaks of pharmeceuticals....and I listen, like a devout buddhist monk learning about my spiritual dragon)

[Nuriko Sha]

Midol hath no power over me! :lol

[Jedi Master Leia Solo]

LOL...Dale!! But so true Bud!!

Ugh! This thread gives me a headache!! |I

Ya know what guys its not only here so call "cliques" are being accussed of being on but on our own individual group boards. *sigh* Oh yes the headaches of RPing at times! LOL!!! Guys we are suppose to have fun right?! I suppose that is why at times we all feel we need a break from RPing and get away from the trivial things! Ya know ;)

[Dyne Darkforce]

Ahh, Leia. Nice to see ya. :)

[Dalethria Mal Pannis]

:crack JUMPS ON LEIA AND HUGGLES HER TO DEATH :crack

[Sanis Prent]

(watches the aardvark fly through air, as bohemian music plays in the distance)

[Dyne Darkforce]

:lol

[Dalethria Mal Pannis]

what? I couldn't help it. Twas her outfit ^_^

[Sanis Prent]

The aardvark cops a feel well, grasshopper. ^_^;

[Dyne Darkforce]

Sure. :p

[Jedah Lynch]

Obviously this is not going to be taken serious and swept under the rug so not going to bother with this.

Going to sit back, watch and do the old told you so later.

Less stress and headaches that way:)

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Jedah Lynch
Obviously this is not going to be taken serious and swept under the rug so not going to bother with this.

Going to sit back, watch and do the old told you so later.

Less stress and headaches that way:)

The thread got sidetracked and was not entirely the staff's fault. We are awaiting Firebird's evidence, If you have any you are free to present it. Why make such assumptions as "Obviously this isn't going to be taken serious"?

Mini quote from Lynch's Profile:
Location: Learning to become the first SWfans OOC Lawyer

You are going to need to keep studying, because lawyers don't base their arguments on assumptions, rumors, or heresay, that kind of thing doesn't stand up nearly as well as fact. :p

I see no tossing aside/sweeping under rugs or whatever, of this issue and I have made some concessions to those who opposed what was done with the threads this discussion was initially regarding so that they are free to use whatever evidence they may be able to gather from within them, because I see the facts. IMO, the facts are that everyone was treated fairly. I made those concessions without even being asked to because I think it only fair.

[Figrin D'an]

Seems the tone of this thread has changed rather quickly...

[Dyne Darkforce]

Ok, so were back on track. :|

[DarthHERA]

good gravey @ this thread!! o_O


I have a suggestion, ahem,

Why dont we make a survey. Simple questions from these and other issues in a "for or against" format. Included in the survey could also be suggested solutions for such issues. Ppl can post issues they want addressed such as the "elite" thing and the "posting private IM convos" etc and when we have enough questions we can draft up a survey. Everyone can cut and paste and forward their survey replies to Admins/Mods (and a couple "independants"or whatever so as to avoid further conspiracy theories). Or just post them in this forum. Whichever. People though will probably feel freer to be more honest and not fear hurting ppls feelings if their views arent out there for everyone to see. And from those results maybe we can solve some things or something.

When I first looked at this thread I thought...oh dear, another endless argument. But some positive ideas have been effected so far.

I dont think everyone naming names or voicing their specific gripes is a good idea. I just think personality clashes and issues are best delt 1-1 with the individuals involved.

But alot of these things that are bothering or frightening ppl could be handled in a general survey.

[Jedi Master Leia Solo]

::Huggles Dyne, Dale, Sanis and Jedah::

Nice to see you all!

Actually this stuff is serious. But gosh...I really don't know what to say about this as I wasn't really involved in it.

For some reason RPing can be stressful at times. Ashame I think because it is a game.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by DarthHERA
Why dont we make a survey. Simple questions from these and other issues in a "for or against" format. Included in the survey could also be suggested solutions for such issues. Ppl can post issues they want addressed such as the "elite" thing and the "posting private IM convos" etc and when we have enough questions we can draft up a survey. Everyone can cut and paste and forward their survey replies to Admins/Mods (and a couple "independants"or whatever so as to avoid further conspiracy theories). Or just post them in this forum. Whichever. People though will probably feel freer to be more honest and not fear hurting ppls feelings if their views arent out there for everyone to see. And from those results maybe we can solve some things or something.

A good suggestion for those who would rather not voice their opinions publicly. I think it would require a few things, and this is just my opinion.

1. A person to act as mediator, in charge of compiling the results and making them anonymous before presentation, probably someone chosen by the posters and not a part of the staff to avoid the stereotypes we have heard thus far.

2. A standardization of some kind for the survey and what it would ask, so that said results could be more easily combined/compiled.

3. Time and effort from the person who got picked as this mediator. :\

[Dyne Darkforce]

I like this idea too and it seems pretty efficient as well. It has that element of confidentiality for people who dont want to flat out say what they think, which is a plus of course. Plus the points Ogre had are also well said. I hooray to this plan, i'd like to help and if there is anything I can do then give me a ring. :rollin :smokin

[Arya Ravenwing]

I also would like to help, if its needed. To vote on someone to mediate, we should nominate around five people, and then make a poll with those five names, right?

To be nominated, usually one needs to be seconded. Just an idea. :) And I think making it someone who is not on the regular staff is a good idea.

[Jedah Lynch]

Mini quote from Lynch's Profile:
Location: Learning to become the first SWfans OOC Lawyer

You are going to need to keep studying, because lawyers don't base their arguments on assumptions, rumors, or heresay, that kind of thing doesn't stand up nearly as well as fact.

Ah.

And being an admin is about re editing ones post to take cheap shots and saying how someone you dont agree with is automatically basing their arguements on rumors, heresay and assumptions?

Have you even bothered to think half the reason not posting or didnt want to post is to cover some peoples asses and dont want to see them take a great deal of heat. But that doesnt matter does it? Spoke out against some so now I must be proven to be wrong.

Bloody hell man, have no wish to drag some through the mud other than to say yes there is a problem and would like to see some changes done to make things better here for a larger portion of the boards, not just a choice few but examples are beind demanded eh?

Sorry dont got the answers for you or would suggest how to make things better around here for a greater number of people that was indeed fair.

Oh wait, we are talking fair right?

Thats why Dale was made a mod without getting a public reaction or judgement first right? Something so simple and easy.

Doesnt matter she had been on the boards for a short time at the time. Never mind the fact she was IC married to one of the staff. Never mind the fact there were other older posters who could have accepted the role. She was with the in crowd so approved!

Just we at Swfans staff say it so and thus it is done.

Thats why Sanis was made a mod without getting public reaction first right? Doubt many would have objected. Seriously do. But in the end, he was associating with those in the study(s) and in good favor. Thus he was in.

Just we at Swfans staff say it so and thus it is done.

Thats why Pierce was made a mod without getting public reaction first right. Never mind the fact he had not shown any huge amount of fleet knowledge. Never mind the fact he had been gone often. He was in the study(s) he was good friends with the staff. And that was al it took.

Just we at Swfans staff say it so and thus it is done.

Exactly who is next in the study who is going to be a mod? Jeseth, Hart, Nup..oh wait *LOL*

Oh wait, we are talking assumptions now.

Like when you were saying how TSE members were plotting in secure forums for whatever reasons. Now doesnt THAT sound familar eh?

Oddly enough it wasnt any TSE "secret/locked forum" that I remember seeing certain TSE members talking with and discussing upcoming RP missions that were suppose to be secret once. With other people in other groups no less who were NOT suppose to see them. If such threads were meant to be talked in the open, they would not have been in a locked forum at TSE for such things. Do the Jedi make their plans available to us in such ways? Do TBH? Do the Imperials? But there they were, future TSE missions being discussed openly for various other people in other groups to see and plan for. Tondry lept at the opportunity from what I remember reading. After this was made public at TSE believe we had to scrap the whole thing because it couldnt be done without knowing exactly how much had been made available to some or if they were planning an ambush.

But wait we're talking fair play on the boards, that was OOC, it doesnt matter. Much like when Jeseth himself saw some stuff in the axis board he did not agree with (then again since when did he agree with anything TSE ever proposed) and told DT on aim all about it and then DT posted it on the Jedi board for all to see.

That must be the fair play he has been preaching.

Want a transcript of the aim conversation? Afraid didn't got the actually post that went on in there as DT whipped the Jedi up condoning TSE. You know much in the way he blamed TSE recently for his troubles when it was really just one admin here he disagreed with but hey, its TSE, its EVIL and a punching bag if anyone ever saw one.

So thats a few things. I got no doubt some will do their best to explain and overall what I said will be written off as "assumptions, rumors, or heresay" or worse again. This is only a small sample of what could post and if looked could even back up much of what was said with proof. But if anyone cant tell by now by the nature of what was said and why I didnt want to say anything than they are indeed blind. Especially with what it means by saying this so openly. Most of those know exactly what I'm talking about this time, all those that seem to count in the grand court of public opinion here at least.

Right now not sure whats worse having to prove that was not just causing problems to a friend or having to post this at all when I planned not today in the first place realizing what this could do until I was basically dared too or else come off as a whining twit.

Either way know this is a new low point at the boards for me personally. Also wish to aplogize to Dale, Sanis, and Pierce in part for using them as examples in this. Having talked to you three, know your not "evil" by any means, just dont approve with how some things are run and do hope thats understood in part at least:/

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Originally posted by Jedah Lynch
...But in the end, he was associating with those in the study(s) and in good favor. Thus he was in. .....He was in the study(s) he was good friends with the staff. And that was al it took.

Exactly what Study are you referring to, Jedah? Because if you're talking about the forum on my board, called Lilaena's Study, and used for many different people to collaborate on RPs, then I must take serious offense to that statement.

[Jedah Lynch]

Not your forum Deville.

Sure you will find out soon enough or just ask someone like Pierce or those listed. They know which one and indeed what was talking about in there, including the before mentioned TSE missions among other things.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Glad to hear it wasn't mine. :\ And I don't talk to Pierce much, so I guess I'll have to go hunting for information then. :rolleyes

Anyway, my offer for help on the survey thing still stands.

I dont' have anything to comment on in Jedah's post now, since it doesn't involve me. *whew* I was going to have to lay the smack down on you Jedah. Glad that you get spared my fury ;) ...although your use of the (s) after study ...study(s) makes me still wonder if you didn't imply mine as well. :(:(

[ReaperFett]

Thats why Dale was made a mod without getting a public reaction or judgement first right?

Because shes good. Why have a thread so everyone would say yes. Unlike if it wasyou, Id trust her with this place




Much like when Jeseth himself saw some stuff in the axis board he did not agree with (then again since when did he agree with anything TSE ever proposed) and told DT on aim all about it and then DT posted it on the Jedi board for all to see
I dont remember any more than someone once saying it was a bit shaky. Have you any proof on this libelous accusation? If you have, then Im wrong, but it just seems another way for you to cry and whinge about the "oh so evil" administration


And no way did he "whip up" TSE disliking. It was the fact a lot of people would write things like this, which seems to have the only use which is to have a good whinge at the system, just because they want a power trip

[imported_Firebird1]

What kind of proof do you want, exact links? Copied HTML? Pie Charts and Graphs? That will take alot more time. And plus I may not be able to get all of that. :\
So what exactly do you want?

[Morgan Evanar]

Actual documentation of wrong doing, conspiracy and all.

----

This is like the goddamned Salem Witch Trials, hallucinagenic fungi and all.

-insert further sarcastic yet truthful wit here.-

[Lady Vader]

Wow. This thing should be titled "The Never Ending Pointing-Of-Fingers Thread".

And I'm still confused as to what happened, and at this point it'd be futile to ask, or even care.

So, is it over yet or not?

[Nupraptor]

I have to head out in a few minutes, so I only have time for a very brief reply...
Exactly who is next in the study who is going to be a mod? Jeseth, Hart, Nup..oh wait *LOL*I do believe that I was elected to the position of Moderator by a majority vote of SWFans.net Posters. I was, in fact, rather reluctant to take on the role of a Moderator - Not because of the responsibility it entails, but because of other reasons. These same reasons are why I stepped down as a Mod/Temporary Admin of this board.

The rumor mill is always working overtime, and I was frankly getting tired of people getting it in their head that I'm sort of "power monger". Why should I try and help a group of people who think I'm nothing more than an egocentric would-be tyrant?

I'll concede: Yes, it probably would have made everyone more comfortable if the more recently appointed Mods were elected into their positions. However, do take into consideration that the Administrative team was simply trying to find the right people for the job. The mock elections that are often held on messageboards - any messageboard at all - can too easily become popularity contests where the person with the most friends wins.

I believe Sanis and Tondry were appointed, rather than elected, because the current Mods\Admins felt they were the best people to handle the constant upsurge of disagreements over Fleet rules. If there had been an election, it would have been entirely possible that someone with little to no knowledge of Fleet Rules (such as myself :p) would have gotten elected to the position - which would be a waste.

Correct me if I am somehow misinterpreting what you're saying, but what you're implying is that someone can simply go up to an admin and go "Hey, old buddy old pal... can you give me Mod powers?" and it'll be done. Do you really have so little faith in the Administrative team that you think they'd indulge in such frivolties? Because what this all boils down to is a matter of trust.

Please don't attempt to refute anything in this post, as everything I've said is entirely my opinion. I'm not claiming anything here is a written-in-stone fact, I'm just offering up my input on the situation.

[TheHolo.Net]

Ohh, I get it now, Sounds like your still bitter over the fact that you(Jedah) weren’t allowed into that locked forum.

Guess what. Everything you put in your last big post is an assumption, an assumption made because of what appears to be the bitterness that I just mentioned. You have no facts to base the accusation that these people were put into their positions only on the grounds that they had access to that forum. I find it strange that you seem to think you know exactly who and how many have access to that forum. I find it strange that you don’t have better things to do with your time than sit and dream up such preposterous accusations that don’t hold a shred of proof.

Sure there were no elections by the posters, sure there was no request from all of you who you thought would be best for the job. Is that a crime? Not at all. Do you want to know why I think so?

I wasn’t given my position as an Administrator of this board by the people/posters, I was given it by another Admin. Though I was the last Moderator to be given the mod position by the actual posters of this board. Do you remember how the first moderator was granted his position for the board? He certainly wasn’t voted in by the posters, he was appointed by the staff. Because it’s the Staff’s job to do what they think is best.

As already mentioned, this isn’t about popularity, its about ability. I will firmly stand behind the ability of all of the staff members I have had any say in appointing, to be fair, impartial, well spoken, and even tempered.

Show me a single instance of proof from these very forums where any of them were not.

I get the feeling that those who think it should be a popularity contest are nothing more than feeling as if they are being left out because they aren’t being considered for the mere fact that they are popular. Feels like I’m back in school, grade school, high school, whatever, among the children who whisper and make silly wishes about the popular people behind their backs.

I’m still waiting to see evidence, because the generalizations you just made, are not evidence of any wrong doing by the staff. They are just the ramblings of someone who seems bitter, without better things to do with his time. But again, this is just my take, my assumption, because you haven’t stated the truth, you haven’t been honest with your feelings. You have been purposefully vague and unclear, making accusations that hold no substance.

For the record, DT and I were the ones who appointed Sanis and Tondry. And guess what, it has absolutely nothing to do with their access to a personal forum where RP is rarely even discussed. I nominated Sanis, and DT nominated Tondry. Want to know something else, DT isn’t even aware of Dalethria’s study or who has access, unlike you who seem to have been obsessing over it for several months now.

Do I care that Dara has near half a dozen locked forums on her board? Does it matter to me that the old RSO board is nothing but locked forums these days? Do I obsess over trivial things and dream up connections between these things and make blatant accusations of wrong doing based on nothing more than what I have dreamt up?

[TheHolo.Net]

And being an admin is about re editing ones post to take cheap shots and saying how someone you dont agree with is automatically basing their arguements on rumors, heresay and assumptions?

Re-editing whose post, that wasn't a cheap shot, it was an attempt at levity, one which I thought you would take well knowing that you do have a sense of humor, hence the :p in there.

I didn't edit anyones post.

[Jedah Lynch]

Spent time writing up a reply.

Comp went buggy. Post went bye bye.

So here go again....


Because shes good. Why have a thread so everyone would say yes. Unlike if it was you, I trust her with this place

Two points.

1. Yes she is good at what she does, was that ever an issue? No.

2. I made her an admin/council member of TSE which I valued over Swfans any day of the week. If had any extreme fears she would cause damage she would never have gotten the position. It was due to her judgement she got the position. So yes do trust her. Your missing the point.


I dont remember any more than someone once saying it was a bit shaky. Have you any proof on this libelous accusation?

Your a Jedi, you tell me, the post were made in a Jedi board. I received the aim transcript of what happened in the aim talk between him and Jeseth as proof and was told what happened that followed ie:DT wanted to post about what had been discussed in the Dark Axis boards, that was stated at the end of the aim transcript so got no doubt what was told is true.

There are some examples that exist backing up some what have said but not sure enough to achieve anything nor make a difference or really outright prove everything in a solid manner. And what I personally did have saved on my HD was deleted after I left RPing so what I had is gone and not sure how to get much of it back honestly to even save myself in all this. Thought had some material left on which spoke out upon that was yet to be deleted but even that is g o n e. So in effect apparently put a gun to my head and didn't check to see if had any bullets loaded.

Bummer~_~

So that in mind, if evidence is being asked than I can not apparently provide it after all much to my extreme dismay. And since anything said would only be called lies not much more can do than repeat my own opinion there is a problem here that needs to be dealt with or what already said.


And no way did he "whip up" TSE disliking. It was the fact a lot of people would write things like this, which seems to have the only use which is to have a good whinge at the system, just because they want a power trip

If wanted a power trip could have easily stayed at TSE and TSO.
Pretty sure I'm one of the few admins, mods or council members to ever give up RPing under good circumstances with no fights or major disagreements being why did leave. And overall bet if did return to TSE or start up a new group I could either get my position back again either sooner or later due to my track record of keeping the peace and making sure the group was able to keep going. So if it was a power trip I wanted, that could easily be arranged. But not going to do that.

Nup, a good part of this thread is opinion and as such need to use some things you said, if possible to explain. Might be able to explain some things if lucky and wont use it to try to bash your opinion or such things.


The rumor mill is always working overtime, and I was frankly getting tired of people getting it in their head that I'm sort of "power monger". Why should I try and help a group of people who think I'm nothing more than an egocentric would-be tyrant?

Do not believe you are seen as an egotistical tyrant with plans of global conquest much less a board. There were some extreme had dealings between TBH and TSE at one point yes but that has largely been reduced and in the past.


you're implying is that someone can simply go up to an admin and go "Hey, old buddy old pal... can you give me Mod powers?" and it'll be done.

Replace mod powers with admin powers and you get a situation that occurred only a week or so ago. Granted that case might be unique due to him being an mod already but still, it did bring in question some of what goes on. More so when the person in question tries to keep the admin spot that they were not suppose to keep by dragging up who owns the board and what that person say is usually rule or law.


Do you really have so little faith in the Administrative team that you think they'd indulge in such frivolties?
When such things that said above happens, yeah do have my doubts. At least in the end of that particular situation common sense did prevail.


Because what this all boils down to is a matter of trust.

Trust is fickle at best, and overall due to much what has gone down in the past year which you mentioned ie: rumors etc much has been said on many sides, not just by any one side. So trust is not easily being given in any shape unless there exist a good friendship already well established to make the person feel secure enough.

Not over yet LV, this has been going on for nearly a year in different ways, your lucky you just started to experience any of this, this is nothing compared to some things that happened already. Due to some good will and co operation if not communication it was held off swfans but it was bound to spill over, now that it has though.


Ohh, I get it now, Sounds like your still bitter over the fact that you(Jedah) weren’t allowed into that locked forum.

In other words what your saying is after you or Dale suggested could get in the board which took me by surprise due to this was not all that long after the whole TBH/TSE goings on and before repaired old friendships with some in that forum only than to be given vague answers on why would not be let in which went from one or two people were violently opposed to my presence there or because one person had not voted means I'm bitter?

Um, no. If that was the case this would be easily solved. I was disappointed and annoyed that a clear answer had never been given to exactly what was going on in the matter. It was much like a boat ride going up and down, at times seemed was in and out and in again which was really confusing and even attempted to ask about what was going on. That was some months ago and not really bitter at it at all since for the most part couldnt give a damn less what goes on there except for what has already occurred, bitter at you tossing this at me now yeah. But I take it you think I'm taking a shot at you right? Thats why you got Nuri to post?

Put it this way, how much in the past have sought to defend you when you felt many were outright knocking you? If was taking a shot at your or had a problem with you would have told you so on aim as I always did. Do not agree with everything you do here or what goes on but dont think your doing a bad job by any means. Exactly how many times have I stated that time and time again? Even when you were upset and took a shot at me for belieivng in something different than yourself did my best to work it out and not let any long lasting problems float around needlessly between us because you have always been someone respected.

You seem rather bitter yourself. Maybe its because too many look to you for answers or help or God knows what that your buried in what you do here and not given the proper thanks when you should be but old friend, you seem pretty ticked yourself. But then I said knew would feel as if betrayed some when started this, knew you would be upset which was partly why didnt want to get into this after my first post or so and how these things usually go.


Do I care that Dara has near half a dozen locked forums on her board?

So she has a dozen locked forums, is that bad?

Is there something going on there? I really dont know what if there is, I have no access to any locked forums there except for a wedding one once upon a time.

The whole reason Dales Study has been brought up so much has been due to some past happenings there, such as when a TSE member has been bashed or made a target at a time due to some not liking her. That a TSE mission was discussed openly that was suppose to be not mentioned and god knows what else. It has lead to much trouble on the boards and now into this. There has been a perceived clique there for some time now, not merely my own view either, you always were uspet about that fact while you seem to take rather personal at times.


Does it matter to me that the old RSO board is nothing but locked forums these days?

Decided to change it, had some images redone and touched up the whole board. Locked up the forums due to nothing happening there except for spam post. Had thought could do some independent RPing there to help get me going creativitly once more only used it in the end was to test sigs in one forum and let Sorsha teach an apprentice in another aside from letting Nuri, Dale and Sorsha have another forum to talk in on an matter. If your lost any access to any locked forum with past post made you could have said so, otherwise not sure what the point here is your getting at.


Do I obsess over trivial things and dream up connections between these things and make blatant accusations of wrong doing based on nothing more than what I have dreamt up?

You mean like this thing you seem to have against Dara and anyone who defends her? Or something that is going on at her boards? You seem to be tossing up accusations of your own now ironicly enough which is exactly what your accusing me of doing with Dales Study.

At this point shall leave it open for someone else to say their peace or opinion.

[TheHolo.Net]

2. I made her an admin/council member of TSE which I valued over Swfans any day of the week. If had any extreme fears she would cause damage she would never have gotten the position. It was due to her judgement she got the position. So yes do trust her. Your missing the point.Things said like that can easily be pointed out and make to look like you think yourself "elite" and or on a power trip. You made her a council member there? I doubt you had such power alone, but reading that it seems you think otherwise. Looks like evidence that Fett's idea of a power trip may hold some substance no matter what else you say to the contrary.

And you conveniently overlooked part of Nup's response that quashes your theory that the staff appoints its new positions to people who have access to Dale's Study, coincidence is coincidence not necessarily a fact.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you really have so little faith in the Administrative team that you think they'd indulge in such frivolties?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


When such things that said above happens, yeah do have my doubts. At least in the end of that particular situation common sense did prevail.And how did common sense prevail in that situation? With me coming to the members of the board and getting their opinion, weighing them with my own and coming to a conclusion. Sounds pretty fair to me.


But I take it you think I'm taking a shot at you right? Thats why you got Nuri to post?I started a topic elsewhere that caused her to have to read this. I in no way made her post, I don’t claim to make anyone do anything. Do you really think that I could make Nuri do anything? Come on now, you know me and her better than that.

The point I was getting at mentioning the other boards went right over your head. You seem to be making a grand deal out of Dale’s study and all based on an incident that was nothing more than a few comments taken out of context and misperceived to mean something entirely different. My point was; there are locked forums all over the place that I don’t cry for access to, nor was I doing so in my previous post, just stating the fact that the same could be said from other perspectives.


You mean like this thing you seem to have against Dara and anyone who defends her? Or something that is going on at her boards? You seem to be tossing up accusations of your own now ironicly enough which is exactly what your accusing me of doing with Dales Study. You actually said it best yourself in your first sentence. The word “seem” means nothing more than the fact that you and probably others are assuming such things. Sure, I admint that Dara and I had some problems in the past, and you know that said problems have been worked out and moved on past. Your ammunition is but a dud.

Lets see some facts, because I see no evidence within any of your long winded posts that the staff here has done anything wrong except to upset you and cause you to manufacture a great deal of misperceptions.

[Jedi Master Leia Solo]

**SIGH***

Ok....I think its time I say something here.

I am in Dale's Study. I AM A JEDI!!! No secrets are revealed in there!!! Jedah, you know I speak the truth to you when I talk to ya.

I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANY BAD MOUTHING ABOUT DARA OR ANYONE!!

Want to know what the Study is?! Its an OOC Study. We talk as long time friends of RPing. We joke in there. What's wrong with that?!

Can everyone please relax. :(

[Dalethria Mal Pannis]

Okaaayy .... I want to know what is going on here? First the issue was about the welcome thread and some posters feeling that they were singled out now has turned into a debate about what happens at other boards O-o

What happens at the Study or ANYONE else locked forum's is that admin's business. What happened at my board when called into question at TSE was a TSE issue and was resolved. Last time I remember people make mistakes and dragging out that stuff here is ... well actually I can't think of the right word since I woke up but I am failing to see the point.

And if you are going to bring up such things... please make sure to tell the entire story. That situation started with someone posting (who shall remain nameless) in the study about a plan and then decided to copy/paste that entire converstaion so that members of TSE who were not allowed into the Study could see... which in turn also broke trust. Therefore causing a complete mess in misconstruting something that was said by me personally since I was joking.

Now honestly, people vent at my place and we have fun. Like that doesnt happen at other boards where I may being bashed and dont know about it. So don't go pointing fingers at me or my locked forum since that same thing happens at other places. And as you said, if you didn't trust me after that mistake and wasn't forgiving ... like others ... why put me on the Council at TSE? Why not call into question my abilities at moderator when I was made one or when that actually happened? I have tried my hardest since school started to be here every single day and lurk, deleted double posts, making sure sigs are alright, that the RP threads are going smoothly. It makes me sad to come here after every night, when I cant be on, to see this endless circle :(

I am getting really tired of this back and forth nonsense. This whole thing was suppose to bring up issues that are affecting the board now. There are always windows of opportunity to complain or call into question decisions. If you didn't like Pierce or Sanis as mods, then say something. If you didnt want me as a mod say something. If you don't speak no one hears you ... that simple.

Now, is it possible we could talk about things into making this a better community since I thought that this is what this thread was suppose to be about?

I also hoped that this makes sense since I just woke up ... sorry if I rambled O_o

[Jedi Master Leia Solo]

:( *sigh* I hate to see you go through this Dale.

**hugs**

You are a good friend. A sweet, trusting, honest girl. I just felt I had to say something here.

[Nupraptor]

There is a lot that I wish to reply to. However, I'm literally about to pass out on my keyboard. I just wanted to make this one point before I go to sleep:
Replace mod powers with admin powers and you get a situation that occurred only a week or so agoPlease take the situation in context. I was uncomfortable with my new position here. The way I saw it, I had no right to be an admin, whereas DT did (having previously held the position). I did discuss the subject with Ogre beforehand, so it wasn't just something I did on a whim. Seeing as how DT was an admin for many months beforehand, it seemed to be a safe assumption that he could be trusted with the responsibility the position entails.

Thus, your analogy doesn't hold water: To grant powers based on friendship is totally different than to restore a role which someone held for what I believe was close to a year, if not more. In hindsight, it was a poor judgement call on my part. But I never claimed to be perfect, nor any close facimile of such. Also, I think it's worth noting that the situation wasn't simply ignored, but attended to in a fairly timely fashion.

[Sanis Prent]

Hey....guys....

Shut up!

Okay, I just woke up. I got bed hair. I got double vision. I got diarrhea. I'm starting to drink in the AM, so that I don't notice the above three afflictions. But also so this bull**** evaporates on my screen. As Mr. Tarkin said:


This bickering is pointless!

Gotta agree. On both sides, there's been nothing but hearsay and hot air, with a little bit of libel sprinkled in between. I'm likely just as guilty, and as such, will refrain from talking about how Jedah shaves billygoats, Firebird plays water polo with bohemians, or whatever the hell we've been up in arms about. I don't care, because until there are links, or first-person admissions or whatever.....ITS ALL BULL**** :)

Oh dear oh dear, HE'S GOT LOCKED FORUMS.....SHE'S GOT LOCKED FORUMS! Those damn communists...they could even be living next door to you right this very minute, destroying the great american dream!! Or worse...they could be admins...or mods! The truth is terrifying!

The only travesty I've seen in a locked forum is that Dara Shadowtide has one called "Crimson Tides", and maybe the ghost of Paul Bear Bryant will give her a little kick in the butt for that blasphemy ;)

But ya know...if its not locked forums, its gonna be AIM. If its not AIM, its gonna be MSN. If its not MSN....then email.

Oh no! People talk. And they don't always talk to EVERYBODY. Big place, the internet is. Even our own little corner of paradise....its big. How many people in the swfans network? Has anybody counted? Can they? Between all the multiple IDs, who knows. I'm sure I could go and match up every single IP address, if I were so masochistic and motivated. I mean hell....I've been in THIS argument, I could take a red-hot ten penny nail driven up my pee hole, I think. So think. So damn many people...is it even feasibly possible for them to talk to everybody else? No. Not at all. And the way things work, friendships need investments of time. So, even if you're extroverted as hell, you're only talking about maybe 20 good buddies on the net here. Its not that people are elitist...its that we're just not supermen. We don't have the time, we don't have the energy to be EVERYBODY's friend. And I'm sure people disagree, but its not the case as much as simple laws of mathematics. We can't all be friends. That doesn't mean we don't want to be. We're getting so damn riled up, so bent out of shape, and for what? NOTHING. Not a damn bit of real anything has been brought to the table.

I'm sure that Firebird, Dara, and Johnny Cochrane are hard at work on pooling their evidence, whatever that may be. I'm cool with giving the benefit of the doubt, and waiting for whatever they have to say. But I'm not cool with keeping these little word skirmishes flying. Its not like its doing anything for us. So go on if you want. I'm sure that if you haven't listened to anything I've said before, you sure as hell won't now. Hell, you can even take your pot shots at me. I'll help you. My last name is Hicks, and I live in Alabama. Now you can call me Hillbilly Mod or whatever, and say I'm too inbred to be competent. I'll smile and nod, and let you flap your gums if you're so inclined. Why? Cause I don't care anymore, and if you don't have proof, you're not making one ****ing bit of difference in this damn thread, and you're wasting everybody's time.

So whatever! I've got a new bottle of whiskey, and its not even noon yet. I wouldn't be suprised if a giant turd fell out of the sky and landed on this thread. Believe me, it would be a cosmetic improvement.

But yes...evidence....

(pours a shot)

...I'll be here waiting, whatever :) Do whatever you want, I guess. I'd be a Nazi Moderator if I said otherwise, right? :)

[Pierce Tondry]

Jedah: Do you know how the "Study Group" got started in earnest?

This is going to amuse some.

It started with me asking Dale, Ogre and Sorsha (the original trio) if they minded me having access, because I wanted to be able to talk to Sorsha. She doesn't have AIM or MSN, or any form of Instant Messaging, and I wanted to be able to talk to her like I could talk to Ogre and Dale.

Then JK Leia was let in. Then others.

It's nice to know that I'm the one who started a snowball effect that lead to people's reputations being ruined. And for what- a chance to talk to someone and make a new friend?

God, I feel sick now. Not only did I lead to my own reputation being tarnished, but I lead to those of others as well.


Thats why Pierce was made a mod without getting public reaction first right.

Actually, when DT mentioned that he was redoing Fleet Rules again, my first thought was "Touchy subject, abrasive fellow- Oh, ****, all hell's gonna break loose." So, I volunteered to help lead the effort since all the previous times the issue has surfaced, I have maintained low involvement and it has never been resolved with any finality.


Never mind the fact he had not shown any huge amount of fleet knowledge.

What kind of knowledge would you like me to display that will quash now and forever forward any doubts of my suitablity for a Fleet Moderator position? Now that it has been brought up, this is not a point I will leave unaddressed.


Never mind the fact he had been gone often.

So have others. I'm willing to dedicate my first priority here to making sure that things on the Fleet Rules (FR) issue get resolved.


He was in the study(s) he was good friends with the staff.

I'm also friends with you (or at least, I thought I was). That indicates to me that I'm just a friendly person and am able to get along with others well, which in itself is a unique form of qualification for Moderatorship.


And that was all it took.

It also took me taking an interest in the issue.


Tondry lept at the opportunity from what I remember reading. After this was made public at TSE believe we had to scrap the whole thing because it couldnt be done without knowing exactly how much had been made available to some or if they were planning an ambush.


Hell, I always leap at the chance for good RPs, and even though I don't remember the incident in question, I'm fairly sure that was my motivation. Then again, I might be wrong.

I have also put people on notice of RPs that concern them, too. I don't have many RPs regarding TSE, but when I do I make sure the word gets spread to those who are relevant to the issue. Confirmation at Fondor, for example, started with me contacting Sums and asking him if I could intercept the message about his wedding that he'd broadcasted. I told him the nature of the RP, and made sure to mention that it wouldn't involve me dealing with anything classified or important. He said sure, go ahead.


Either way know this is a new low point at the boards for me personally. Also wish to aplogize to Dale, Sanis, and Pierce in part for using them as examples in this. Having talked to you three, know your not "evil" by any means, just dont approve with how some things are run and do hope thats understood in part at least

I don't know what to say in response to that. You've made your point, but I'm not sure I really care. To be honest, I still feel sick from earlier.

Edit: Took out a sentence regarding who has access to Dale's Study- not really my place to announce that kind of info. Also fixed a quote code.

[TheHolo.Net]

I think a great deal of all of this stems from the fact that some people think that others want to make themselves out to look “good” while at the same time being out to make others look “bad”. As mentioned in another thread and even in this one, popularity versus individualism.

Some may believe that the staff members are the “Elite” and that we are all here to make each other look good, that we are maybe at the top of the popularity scale. I don’t really think that is the case as evident by many of the ideas, feelings and things said in this very thread.

I’m sure my defensiveness to some of these issues isn’t doing my popularity any favors, and guess what, I don’t mind. I don’t want to be popular. I want to be honest and base what I do and say on fact, not rumor, not innuendo, not supposition. As a staff member of this forum I have always been honest with everyone here, and that will continue. Its exactly what I am doing now, just rambling and sharing a few of my candid, honest thoughts on the issue.

We are all searching for solutions, but we aren’t even clear on what the problems are. We need to figure out what the problems are and then try to come up with solutions. I think the survey idea may be a good way to explore an attempt at finding those problems.

I won’t claim to be a saint, I am not trying to be a martyr or savior. I am trying to help get this dealt with, by expressing my honest opinions. It is all I can do.

[Arya Ravenwing]

Charley- DITTO to everything you said. I was thinking about the so-called "elite" group(s) and I came to the same conclusion. There is no possible way to talk to everyone or to be friends with everyone or even to RP with everyone.

I would if I could. I think everyone here is awesome and that everyone has something to contribute to an RP.

NOW it seems that all some people have to contribute is conflict and squabbling. Also, if anyone wants access to MY study, just in case anyone thinks I am also hiding a conspiracy on my board, then just ask. Jeez, I don't think Dale is the antichrist for having an OOC locked forum.

Ooh, Dale, can I have access? ;)

AND, if people still want to do that survey thing, again, I'm still willing to help out in anyway.

[imported_Firebird1]

All I can say if WTF?

I'll get my evidence later. Right now, I'll comment on some of this stuff that is going on in here.

Has Dara been prejudgiced against? If the Posting of the IM convo by Ogre is any indication, then I'd say yes. So you can't say that there hasn't been any of that that you haven't seen.
Next up is the sharing of information. After the battle is over, I don't care what people tell eachother. But before and during a battle or thread why would you want to tell anyone what is going to happen? Can someone explain that to me?
Popularity? Whats that? I'm sorry but I'm not in high school anymore, so I don't go with the crowd. I'm not here to make myself look good. If I had wanted to do that, I wouldn't of been so mysterious about this!
I think there is enough evidence in this thread to atleast ask for people to take this seriously. The fact that people are missing is that there is a problem here, and the fact is that it is a year old. It has nothing to do with so many because they don't want to see it. They come here for fun. But when the fun is over and all they feel is mad, afraid, and silghted against then what? Am I supposed to roll over and just let this go when I see it go on and then just let it go? I can't do that anymore. I can't let anyone feel like their mad or afraid over stuff like this because it is wrong. Should the Admins here be concerned with this, yes because they are, in a few cases, causing it. I don't know if there is any exact documentable evidence out there to show that people are being treated fairly, but I do know that there is evidence out there for apparently there is something here should affect everyone.

The fact that some people have been treated more fairly then others.


I know alot of this is rumors but this can't be denied, and I can't say for sure that I can find some evidence on it. But hay there is enough evidence here for all to point fingers at someone for anything. In reality how ever things have been posted that need to be looked up and checked. About the passing of information, about the way things are given via OOC. Those all need to be talked about elsewhere here in other threads, not here, that is bogging down the issue like crazy.

So is there a consipiricy here? I don't know, I didn't think there is one. There may be some moral problems here, but I'm not going to go around acting like Fox Mulder and looking for the truth. Why because there is no reason for it. Now if there is evidence of this, any at all I'd think that most people would like to know if it is true or not, and not bury it because it is so unpleasent to think that someone would do that because of reason X. So I'm sorry if you all think this topic is stupid, childish, or just plain wrong. But it is important because in six months, we could be having this same conversation again. And only next time, it will be much worse.

Now, as I have said before, if anyone has felt slighted against by the Admins, please post here, or contact me somehow. And I would also like the groups involved in this 'information passing' to take a hard look at it and decide what is needed to be done. I'd like to reiterate that my only concern is how people are treated here, and why many of them don't make themselves known. Do they get laughed at, buried or beat down? I don't know, that is the answer I'm looking for.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Firebird1
Has Dara been prejudgiced against? If the Posting of the IM convo by Ogre is any indication, then I'd say yes. So you can't say that there hasn't been any of that that you haven't seen.Did you read the thread and see that it was dealt with in a fair manner? Here, to refresh your memory.
Originally posted by David
NOTICE:

Myself and Ogre have discussed his posting of his IM chat with Dara and we have both agreed to remove it due to its apparent offending nature to some posters.

Apologies for any confusion or mishap as a result of the removal. Please don't uses this as an oppurtunity to start analysing its removal, but instead try and keep this discussion on the topic at hand.

Thanks. :)

David - fellow SWFans admin

Originally posted by Firebird1
I know alot of this is rumors but this can't be denied, and I can't say for sure that I can find some evidence on it. But hay there is enough evidence here for all to point fingers at someone for anything. I have seen nothing in this thread that can be constituted as evidence, only the feelings of an individual or two, based on rumors, supposition, and incomplete facts.

[Sanis Prent]

I don't know if there is any exact documentable evidence out there to show that people are being treated fairly, but I do know that there is evidence out there for apparently there is something here should affect everyone.

Then pipe down, get your evidence, and post it when you got it. Till then, you're just stirrin the damn pot, and not helping, despite your intentions of doing so. If we're all playing for the same team here, we're after results, and not sensationalism.

As for passing information in a RP, what kind of bearing does this have on this situation? Its a prerogative of how a player wants to conduct a story. Some prefer to pre-plan and coordinate. Some prefer to RP without any coordination. Its a player/players' choice...and you know, whatever you're complaining about has no bearing on what your original point. If I recall, you had a beef with staff procedure, not individual poster preference. By all means, you can create another complaint thread and call out whoever (specifically, NO GENERALIZATIONS) you wish.

But don't think for two seconds to compound a completely unrelated issue onto your beef with the staff here. Its apples and oranges to the highest degree, and thats pretty damn insulting to throw that us. The staff doesn't control how people roleplay here, so get that thought out of your head.

[ReaperFett]

He was in the study(s) he was good friends with the staff.

Oh, new rule! If you talk to an admin, you cant do anything, as its favouratism! Not that they happen to be good, but favouratism! Damn that corrupt system of capable people happening to talk to each other! Damn it to hell!

By the way, I was being sarcastic

[imported_Firebird1]

It might if someone has a problem with it. But it will need to be looked at by someone else, not me.


Then pipe down, get your evidence, and post it when you got it. Till then, you're just stirrin the damn pot, and not helping, despite your intentions of doing so. If we're all playing for the same team here, we're after results, and not sensationalism.

No I'm not, there is no sensationalism here. Well, as much sensationalism as I can avoid anyway. I don't like it more then anyone else, so please try to avoid it as well. And if you want evidence then others may have stuff that may have some bearing on this issue. But some of it will have to be investigated later, and not by any of us.


Did you read the thread and see that it was dealt with in a fair manner? Here, to refresh your memory.

Yes it was delt with only when an uproar about it happened. And another Admin had to step in and clean it up. I don't think that would of happened unless he did step in.

And finally:

But don't think for two seconds to compound a completely unrelated issue onto your beef with the staff here. Its apples and oranges to the highest degree, and thats pretty damn insulting to throw that us. The staff doesn't control how people roleplay here, so get that thought out of your head.
I don't have a beef with the Staff, I'm here to solve a problem. If that means I need to start talking to people thats fine. I'm not here to drive people out of groups, make people mad. I think everyone else has done that. All I want is a solution, but I can't get that when the Staff who could solve the problem, don't want to for reasons I don't know. And the problem here is respect, you don't have to like them, you just have to get along. And if you can't respect people, how are you supposed to trust them?

If the Staff says that I'm talking in Chinese, am I?

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Firebird1
Yes it was delt with only when an uproar about it happened. And another Admin had to step in and clean it up. I don't think that would of happened unless he did step in.Are you sure you read it? Because what you just said conflicts with that


Myself and Ogre have discussed his posting of his IM chat with Dara and we have both agreed to remove it due to its apparent offending nature to some posters.Another Admin didn't step in. There was a discussion and a decision was reached, mutually. Please stop with the assumptions and stick to the facts.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Firebird1
All I want is a solution, but I can't get that when the Staff who could solve the problem, don't want to for reasons I don't know. And the problem here is respect, you don't have to like them, you just have to get along. And if you can't respect people, how are you supposed to trust them?
You are going to need to be more specific than saying the problem is respect. Its not tangible it can't be solved by the staff if its not tangible and is something we can't completely undestand.

See my previos posts regarding the ideas for determining the actual problems.

[imported_Firebird1]

Originally posted by SWFans.net
You are going to need to be more specific than saying the problem is respect. Its not tangible it can't be solved by the staff if its not tangible and is something we can't completely undestand.

See my previos posts regarding the ideas for determining the actual problems.

Post them again, I did not see them. And while were on the topic of Soultions, IM me.

[Sanis Prent]

If the Staff says that I'm talking in Chinese, am I?

Pretty damn close to it, actually. If you want results, you have to make sense. Your nebulous accusations and "oh woe is thee" talk is helping about as much as a sledgehammer to cure a headache.


All I want is a solution, but I can't get that when the Staff who could solve the problem, don't want to for reasons I don't know.

You mean because we don't do what FIREBIRD wants, because FIREBIRD speaks for the people, or so he claims. I'm sorry if the game isn't played that way, but we've got other people on this forum to take care of besides FIREBIRD. We'll hear you out, provided the evidence...which hasn't been presented. Until then, you're really doing nothing to further this "problem solving" you speak of. Don't point that finger in our direction either. We're just waiting on your evidence that you seem to have.

So why the melodrama then? Present the evidence. Simple. Want it to end? Present the evidence. How hard is that? Until then...nothing you're saying is going to do anything to help the situation. Its all speculation, saber rattling, and hollow rhetoric.

Until then, nothing you say is going to push this little escapade in any direction except towards a load of crap. We can all fuss, fight, and bicker I'm sure...but if we're gonna be constructive, there's a process to that, and we gotta get to that.

I'll be attending to my mod duties like I should be, elsewhere. Until you bring your evidence, I'm not going to add material to this little drama queen debacle. Abide by the rules in the FAQ, and I won't become a "nazi moderator" and have to do any unsavory editing for profanity, namecalling, or whatever here. All that provided, and until constructive, useful evidence is brought to the table, I'm making my leave from this thread, as I've got better things to occupy my time. When you bring your evidence, let me know, and I'll review it. Till then...forget it.

Hell...maybe I'll even go RP some. Thats what we're here for, right? Nah, couldn't be.

[imported_Firebird1]

You mean because we don't do what FIREBIRD wants, because FIREBIRD speaks for the people, or so he claims. I'm sorry if the game isn't played that way, but we've got other people on this forum to take care of besides FIREBIRD.

No one is asking you to do this, heck noone is asking me to do this. The reason I'm doing this is that apparently no one else wants too. You can misinterperate what I say, but do you deny a problem is here? Do I need to point stuff out? Do I really need that kind of evidence to just find a way to make this place better?

Since you follow the rules in the FAQ, perhaps it's time to see if they need updating. Well, like the fleet rules it may need to be tweeked. But I would like some more input before I start to see what would happen if we did something major like that.

[Champion of the Force]

I'd like to stress that I have no real knowledge of any of the matters being referred to in this thread since I have no real knowledge of RP events anymore. However there's 2 things I'd like to comment on:


Yes it was dealt with only when an uproar about it happened. And another Admin had to step in and clean it up. I don't think that would of happened unless he did step in.
Ogre stated it above, but I'll just reiterate since I was the admin who 'stepped in'. Ogre and myself discussed it and he wanted to get rid of it due to the upset it had caused but was going to log off. As a result, I offered to remove it for him and he accepted it. Certainly not a case of me overriding him or anything.


Not over yet LV, this has been going on for nearly a year in different ways.
Just want some clarification of this - I was head admin 12 months ago and responsible for the RP section and thus most decisions on an admin level regarding the section, including the appointment of mods and admins up until late January of this year.

What I'd like to have clarified is whether these problems you refer to in anyway also involve my own activities during this period? I have doubts since you stated later in your post that these issues have only just now spilled on SWFans, but I just want to make sure.

Apart from that, I'm outta here. :)

[Rama]

One thing is bothering me.



It started with me asking Dale, Ogre and Sorsha (the original trio)


No....the Orginal Trio was Bromine,Rama, and Mara Jade...........but that was way before your time.



I agree with Jeadh and FB. Big shock there. But you know it use to just be "Crazy Rama" who would say stuff like this........but now there are more and there will be more. And it'll keep being that way till stuff is settled.

[ReaperFett]

come on, it wont ever be settled. Jed wont rest until someone he likes is in power. Then another. And another. Then someone moans there are too many admins and mods. Then people start moaning because an admin didnt say hi the morning before. And on it goes.

[Champion of the Force]

No....the Orginal Trio was Bromine,Rama, and Mara Jade...........but that was way before your time.
Actually the original 'trio' was Darth Sidious, Darth Fenris and Mara Jade1 - who became the first 3 leaders of the Sith Empire.

But that was before your time.

EDIT: I'm assuming of course you're referring to the original leadership of the Sith Empire.

Regardless, I don't think we should start debating on who was here first or before another, so I'll not bother pushing that issue.

EDIT: Of course, I'm open for anyone PM me anytime should someone wish to discuss it with me.

[Drin Kizael]

This is absolutely pathetic. I heard about this thread and it reminded me why I left. But then I heard the details and it made me sick. Nup is a friend of mine.

To you ignorant bastards who are bickering about who the owner of the board is...

To make this board happen, Nup laid down CASH ... real money to purchase the domain and the software to build this place. He and Ogre practically built this place from scratch. And a small handful of you no-life crybabies have the balls to bitch about him?

Do you have any concept (or care) how much time and energy it took to weigh all the options, find a good host, organize all this, and implement it? The fact that he took it upon himself to do all that -- and came through instead of just talking about it like most of you would -- says way more about him than any of these pointless complaints could.

So now you have to redirect your bile at the mods ... the others who are dedicated enough to this board to work for no thanks, much less a tangible reward. And oh no ... THEY'RE FRIENDS!? They get along and enjoy spending time together online, therefore they must be elitest forum-Nazis? What?

In truth they talk in private forums so they can get away from this constant judging and bickering that goes on out here. It's sickening.

In what way does it affect your life that Nup purchased the board? How have the mods ruined your life by being friends? What have any of these people done to be deserving of this trash? What does it matter? This is a writing and role playing forum. It's supposed to be recreation. What is wrong with you people? Get a life.

[TheHolo.Net]

I think you are totally taking that quote out of the context it was written in for your own means Rama, but that’s just what I think. Let me clear up the context of Pierce’s post as I saw it, which could also be wrong, but maybe not.

He contacted the original trio that operated and ran Dale’s board, not the original trio of Sith, whoever they may have been.

[Taylor Millard]

Out of curiousity what kind of mods and admins would you prefer? Those that would stab each other in the back if they disagreed with something or those that were friends and would work together to make sure the board ran correctly and rightly?

Just curious.

*Goes back to writing threads.

[Nupraptor]

Good point Millard. :)
Originally posted by Firebird1
I'll get my evidence later.

--

I think there is enough evidence in this thread to atleast ask for people to take this seriously.While I'm sure the Administrative team has no qualms about waiting until you bring forth your "evidence", you are going to have to bring it forth eventually. You can't just keep going "Uh, I'll get it later..." and then, in the same breath, "Look at all the evidence we have!" It's practically a contradiction of terms
But hay there is enough evidence here for all to point fingers at someone for anythingPersonally, all I've seen is people pointing fingers, with a lack of any real evidence. You, yourself admitted as much. Someone in this thread made a comparison to the Salem Witch Trials. And I have to admit that their analogy is holding more merit by the minute. You can't just keep saying "Well, we can't really find any proof that this happening... can you take our word for it?" Because, since you're putting into question the word of other people, it would be hypocritical to take what you're saying at face-value. I'm not trying to say that your claims are or are not valid at the moment - What I'm saying is that all they are right now are just that: Claims.

Forgive me for being a bit cynical; I live in a city where 90% of all the legal claims are people that know they can just point a finger, break into tears, and win a million dollars or more.

[imported_Firebird1]

Thank you Drin for taking this 150% on a Tangent!!!! j/k


:\

Well, I guess I'll start the evidence gathering by this thread.

Look everybody it's Exhibit A

I was hoping this thread would be constructive, not destructive. But you know what. I guess I'll have to look alot closer to see what has been said. Exhibit A

I was hoping that this thread would be constructive, not destructive!

Now Drin, where did I say I didn't like the fact that they were friends? Because I did not say that. If I said it somewhere then I'm sorry. But I have not attacked that seeing that I try to be everyones friend. In fact I've tried not to attack anyone, but in that I have probally failed.

It's too early for me to decide on Mods and Admins. Instead of going through this again, I'd like to find out what caused the problem. Well for me to do that I guess once again I need to state this clearly.


The Admins and Mods are makeing people feel angry, afraid, and all around stupid.

That is the real problem. Is that to vague? Is that a consipiricy theory? Is that a can of gasonline? Well it must be, because I tried to be respectful, and it still cought fire!

What evidence do I need to convince you that the Admin team for the RP forum is not likeing some people to a point where those affected are in a state of what we like to call 'not happy'
'Not Happy' means that they feel as if they have a problem, but can't talk to anyone because their problem is from the people with da'power. What do you want me to produce?

A Watermellon????



*Places Watermellon on a wooden post.*
Now this is a Watermellon, we know people eat these right?
We don't have the evidence because the trashman walked away with it. *Raises a huge mallot above his head.* So lets find out if it's eatable!!!!
*Brings the Mallot down on the watermellon. Watches it splatter everywhere.*


I would like that survey done. It would help end this bickering. And it would help show how good a job/bad a job this team is doing.

[Champion of the Force]

The Admins and Mods are makeing people feel angry, afraid, and all around stupid.
Sweet - it's now been made 100% crystal clear, without hidden meanings or deliberately vague titles, what the problem is.

Hopefully now we can work towards correcting the issue.


I would like that survey done. It would help end this bickering. And it would help show how good a job/bad a job this team is doing.
Sweeter. Do we want to start up a new thread to get some input into what questions can be asked, or shall we just use this thread?

[TheHolo.Net]

Survey says!!! :D

A good idea to chose questions and a mediator for it.

For the moment, I need a half dozen tylenol and a glass of rum. The headache I have is tremendous. So I'm breaking from all of this for a little while, to try and relax and clear my head. After that, I hope to be able to add some constructive and helpfull thoughts to such processes.

[imported_Eve]

CAN I JUST SAY, I hate long posts!! But, yes, I too read it. Also...

:: gives Lady Vader award for most sensical post(s) in a long-ass post whereas many people spout the same arguments over and over meerly to be heard by people who aren't listening really cause they are too worried about their next post whereas they say the same thing they just said, only in a longer post...AND GET NO WHERE ::

:: also gives Lady Vader award for seeing the big picture ::

:: points back to Havok's and Hera's posts (respectively) ::

For all the conversation it sparked... Jedah's post was the most honest thing I have seen here. Thanks for saying what you mean!

Thanks for having the cahones to point fingers, name names, be sassy, and bring it all out on the table. I admire that in people. You have no idea. And a big shot out goes to SWFans.Net (the poster person) for replying in the same manner. GET IT ALL OUT!

And polls are good! You all seemed to think so too a few million posts back. Let's stick with that. :)

[Rama]

But that was before your time

That wasn't before my time. '_' And you have your facts messed up........DS wasn't even part of the first Sith Empire. Fernis was......Mara Jade was.......but DS wasn't. He was Sith......but there was only Jedi and Sith at the time, but when the TSC returned it needed to be set apart that it was a different group of Sith. Thus the name The Sith Empire.



I know Ren is still running around and he can correct me if im wrong on this, but the first memebers of the offical Sith Empire were Mara Jade1, Bromine, Vengence(Who went thru 3 names changes since then) Mira X and Fernis.......as the leader for like 2 weeks then his wife had a baby and we never saw him again. Then Qui gon Jinn Joined and then there was the one we will only call "Chris" (Since he changed his name every other week.) then the first split into BSK and TSE. Which basicly left Mara and Bromine left......then I joined up and then you know the rest. Well maybe you don't, but I don't got all day to Chronicle the whole history. I remeber it really well......hell I remeber the Sir Dizzy that is only talked about in Legends now. Although I never really saw what was so great about him.....I guess he rubbed other people the right way.


So they could have been the first Trio......but it didn't have anything to do with TSE.

[Champion of the Force]

I doubt my history is messed up, but rather the inconsistency is a result of different interpretations of when the first Sith group started. I always considered The Sith Empire of today to be the same as the group first started by Sidious and Mara in 1999, as the only change that was undertaken between that initial group and the later 'Sith Empire' was the name change.

Darth Sidious was indeed the leader of the Sith Group at that time, however it was going by the name 'The Sith Counsel' (to use Mara's spelling), but it was indeed the same group (unless you consider a group renaming itself akin to restarting again, but that's up to personal opinion).

When the forums 'The Jedi Council' and 'The Jedi vs. Sith Battleground' were merged, the respective groups were formed. 'The Jedi Council' under the leadership of CMJ, myself and RUIN KAI V3 was renamed 'The Jedi Order' to make itself more open, and Darth Sidious and Mara established 'The Sith Counsel' with themselves as leaders.

Darth Sidious lasted about a week or 2, however he's constant absence resulted in him being voted out with Darth Fenris being made leader, which was formally established in his 'The Coronation Ceremony of Darth Fenris' roleplay, in which the term 'Sith Empire' was first used.

Here our histories come together - Fenris lasted 2 weeks before he had a child and then Mara assumed the mantle. The rest is history.

That is my recording of the event. Your's obviously differs, but I guess it comes down to opinion and when the actual 'Sith Empire' was started.

I consider it started when Darth Sidious and Mara setup the intial Sith group, which occured at the same time the Jedi Council renamed itself.

Correction - the Sith Counsel was established before the Jedi had their name change. Mara set the thread up in the old battleground, and when the 2 forums were merged (less than a week later) then began their big recruitment drive. Then the Jedi renamed themselves.

Was close the first time - only about a week out. :)

[Drin Kizael]

I need to say one last thing and then I'm out of your hair again...

You've gotta be kidding me.

THIS is the problem as you see it? ... "The Admins and Mods are makeing people feel angry, afraid, and all around stupid."

How? In what way? Because they are competent? Active? Care about the peace? Because they maintain a true friendship and aren't stabbing each other in the back at every turn? Because they represent some kind of authority figure and people resent that? Because everyone who takes a position of responsibility must be on a power trip? I know these people and I assure you they aren't capable of creating the kind of atmosphere you're claiming. This is all bull.

The admins and mods are making people feel inferior... Sounds like projection to me. What you're really saying is you have a bunch of neurotic whiners who are unhappy for no justifiable reason and you're coddling them. This attitude is what made SWFans such a miserable place to be in the first place.

Here's my advice. This thread is in and of itself destructive. It's wasting time. Stop caring about who's "in charge" and who's in what clique and channel that energy into role playing.

[Champion of the Force]

Ok people, that's enough.

Already the problem has been established (thanks for highlighting it out again Drin) and a thread has been posted for everyone to contribute to:

http://www.swforums.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10815

Also Firebird has posted an apology thread regarding people he may have offended. It can be found here:

http://www.swforums.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10817

So without further ado, I'll be closing this thread since I think we've gotten all we're going to get out of it. If anyone still disputes it's closure, please feel free to either PM myself or one of the staff with your concerns and we'll look into it.

Thanks.