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Force Master Hunter
Oct 8th, 2001, 11:31:11 PM
See what you think. I have run this by the proposed Fleet forum moderators of Pierce and Sanis, generally they agreed to most points.

See what you think




Swfans.net Fleet Rules and guidelines – 10-10-2001

All ships built up to today and proved are hereby acknowledged and fall outside of these guidelines. All further production must adhere to the guidelines.

Shipyards

All shipyards are structures that are 40km in length. Design and look may vary. A yard takes 40 days to become active. Yards may be moved, this takes them out of production for 20 days. All yards may not possess offensive weaponry, but may have defensive shields and defensive weaponry. Yards are also not allowed to manouver except as above.

The absolute maximum capacity of a shipyard is 250 meters / day of production.
Specific minimum / maximum run built times
(Explanation – there is a set minimum time to produce a specific craft. However, if done in a production run, multiple craft may be built, up to specified maximum in the same time as a single craft. A full production run uses your yard to capacity)
Fighter class = 5 days per fighter, 24 per built run maximum.
Up to 100 meters = 10 days per craft, 12 per production run
Up to 250 meters = 15 days min per craft, 6 max production run
Up to 500 meters = 15 days min, 3 per production run
Up to VSD size = 15 days min, 1 per production run
Up to ISD size = 20 days min, 1 per production run
Up to 3000 meters = 35 days, 1 per production run
Anything beyond 3000 meters falls under the 90 day special ship RP rules
Note: - Capital ships that can hangar fighters and other ships do not have those other craft built at the same time. They must all be built separately.

Number of yards per faction:

New Rep: 5
Greater Jedi Order: Conceded yard allowance, Customer yard only
NR Special Forces: Conceded yard allowance, Maintenance / R&D / Ground Force production facility only

Galactic Empire: 4
Imperial Intelligence Headquarters: 1 (By allowance)

The Sith Empire: 4
The Sith Order: 3
Other Groups: 2 -- Given at least 5 active members and possession of a valid planet
The Cizerack:1 5km yard (by allowance)


These shipyards are representative of a group's total shipbuilding capacity. They are non-transferable. Details like planet location and number of yards in orbit is just for story material and do not impact these OOC guidelines. In addition, every group is allowed one civilian-run 40km shipyard which they can use to sell star ships to potential customers. It is illegal to use these customer shipyards for the military gain of your group.

Special Projects / New Technology

No super laser-wielding ships allowed except by 90 day production rule. If you wish to have a star ship with an onboard super laser, you must RP it, and there will be a 90 day construction period that will take your total full all yard capacity for that time. World Devastators require an RP, and take 90 days for 3 units, which will take entire full yard capacity. No ships bigger than 3000 unless you RP it and wait 90 days – this takes one yard 90 days, a group may only build one at a time, maximum length is SSD. Death Stars take 180 days and you must RP it and take full all yard capacity. Star Crushers are explicitly banned.

All ships under 2000m that are comparable to those that already exist are legally allowed to be developed without having an RP thread. Simply announce the specs to SWFans for review and you should be okay. Just as the major projects listed above, any innovative or radical tech is subject to the scrutiny and approval or disapproval of your fellow fleet RPers, group leaders, and moderators. Radical technology that is approved must take 90 days to research.

Battle Rules

You must allow your enemy 36 hours to reply to your posts.

NPC ships can be destroyed by vastly overwhelming firepower (ie, SSD vs X-Wing). PC ships are disabled and characters given chance to respond. Otherwise, use common sense as to damage inflicted. It is encouraged combatants negotiate and discuss a fight. It is noted a large ship may miss smaller ones. Again, use fairplay as a guide
.

Other

You can never destroy a planet.

Use your own judgment when role playing. These rules are not set in stone nor are meant to stifle your creative freedom.

Have fun. Winning isn't everything
The guiding rules of all roleplay must be followed ie :-

No God Mode
No Killing
No Maiming
Appropriate use of Common Sense and Fair Play
A sense of openness and a willingness to discuss and negotiate.

The three strike rule
Outright cheating or excessive disobedience to guidelines will be punished, first time by warning, second by loss of a yard, third by outright loss of allowance to fleet roleplay.
Administrator ruling are final

Resources.

A group must possess a valid planet to be allowed shipyards. A planet may be taken over by acceptable means, in a role-play no shorter than 25 acceptable size posts. This is negotiable.
No group with less than 5 planets is allowed a special fleet project. Special technology is allowed from time of first planet acquisition and not before.
Fleet size will be subjective. If a group is a major government / faction, allowance for that fact will be given. A small group in size and influence will not be allowed an absurd amount of ships, maximum is 10 capital ships per planet. It is hoped that good play would lead to a reward of a larger fleet allowance. Allowances are at the discretion of the moderators, except the explicitly stated groups at present
The New Republic
The Galactic Empire
The Sith Empire
The Sith Order

These groups are simply requested to use their own judgement as to an appropriate fleet size and are allowed this because either they are a Galatic government, or a very long established role play group. The Greater Jedi Order and the New Republic Special Forces have conditionally given up their rights to yards. The Cizerack Pride has been allocated a fleet without build proof, as they have given up the right to expand their fleet or to conquest. Imperial Intelligence has been allowed a small fleet due to continuous good roleplay.
This is a critical point. Good roleplay will bring relaxations of guidelines, this is hoped to encourage fair play.

TheHolo.Net
Oct 8th, 2001, 11:38:04 PM
Originally posted by Force Master Hunter
The absolute maximum capacity of a shipyard is 250 meters / day of production.
Specific minimum / maximum run built times
(Explanation – there is a set minimum time to produce a specific craft. However, if done in a production run, multiple craft may be built, up to specified maximum in the same time as a single craft. A full production run uses your yard to capacity)
Fighter class = 5 days per fighter, 24 per built run maximum.
Up to 100 meters = 10 days per craft, 12 per production run
Up to 250 meters = 15 days min per craft, 6 max production run
Up to 500 meters = 15 days min, 3 per production run
Up to VSD size = 15 days min, 1 per production run
Up to ISD size = 20 days min, 1 per production run
Up to 3000 meters = 35 days, 1 per production run
Anything beyond 3000 meters falls under the 90 day special ship RP rules


This section seems a little complicated and unclear IMO. We should also consider adding Construction yard guidelines to this but that can come later. All in all it looks like a great proposal barring the clarity of the afforementioned section.

Force Master Hunter
Oct 9th, 2001, 12:02:49 AM
Okay, I'll explain.

The minimum time is to acknowledge that a craft takes a certain amount of time to built, regardless of shipyard capacity. Thence a fighter will take 5 days minimum, full stop.

Of course, that is a waste of time. Groups tend to build groups of ships at a time. Now, to stop abusrd amount of craft being produced, a production run may be done. This is the maximum amount of craft of one type one yard can produce at the one time.

Thence, a yard can built 24 fighters in 5 days and not be able to do anything else. Anything less will mean your yard has excess capacity, which can be utilised up to 250 meters per day.

The build rates have been deliberatly skewed to discourage big ships. it also acknowledges big ships are hard to build, thence their times are longer and jam up a yard for an unequal amount of time.

I have alos deliberatly allowed the ability for a yard to mix up it's production to achieve greater production benifits. You could, for example have up to 4 different designs in production, as long as you build 250 m/per day

Oh, just saw a hole..... I will have to make a total per shipyard in production cap.

I have attempted to give leeway in the rules and rewards for clever production techniques and good roleplay and as I said, discouraging big ships.

TheHolo.Net
Oct 9th, 2001, 12:05:39 AM
Okay, I understand now, I just hope that some of our posters will be able to understand as well. It won't be easy I don't think, but I do like the draft. :)

Force Master Hunter
Oct 9th, 2001, 12:30:41 AM
I spoke Sanis, he has agreed to moderate the fleet forums. Pierce has volunteered to do so too. They are adding their feedback.

I'lll add their suggestions and then represent in here. If ye okay, I'll post to the OOC forum fo rhte real acid test.

TheHolo.Net
Oct 9th, 2001, 12:52:28 AM
I spoke with them both as well and have already made their appointments official by way of announcement. Each of them should now be able to see this forum, though I do need to check one more thing before I am certian they can get into it.

I give my approval on the proposal.

Sanis Prent
Oct 9th, 2001, 01:35:11 AM
I think if we put a lot more structure into that building quota thing....it should be okay.

I think we need to set up tiers for every 100 meters...and a ship follows which tier it is closest to.

It is a whole lot more complex than 250 meters a day, but then again, I see where its going, and thats not a bad thing.

TheHolo.Net
Oct 9th, 2001, 02:10:18 AM
Once these rules are finalized and completely in place, I think we should incorporate them into the Roleplaying FAQ for easy reference.

I am also of the opinion that a standardized format for listing each faction's Assets in the threads I started in the corresponding Ship/Construction Yard forums should be devised and implemented for ease of use.

Sanis Prent
Oct 9th, 2001, 02:23:38 AM
Well...something like that would need to be accessed frequently by users....is that possible

TheHolo.Net
Oct 9th, 2001, 02:29:29 AM
The only idea I have for that right now, is what I have already begun, but included no actual content: "Top" (Sticky) threads in each of the faction's Yard forums.

Devising a way to also amalgamate them all would not be a bad course of action either.

Force Master Hunter
Oct 9th, 2001, 04:12:43 AM
It is a whole lot more complex than 250 meters a day, but then again, I see where its going, and thats not a bad thing


Hey Sanis, welcome back to the staff of SWFans. Been, what two years? :)

Okay, everyone who has seen the proposal is happy, except that the production limits need some working and made obvious, but it is in the right direction.

So, firstly do away with the 250 meters a day and replace with allowable production tiers.

Thence one shipyard can do.....

Fighters = 5 days for 30
Up to 50 meters = 7 days for 20
Up to 100 meters = 10 days for 15
Up to 250 meters = 15 days for 6
Up to 500 meters = 15 days for 3
Up to 700 meters = 15 days for 2
Up to VSD (900 meters) size = 15 days for 1
Up to ISD (1.6K) size = 20 days for 1
Up to 2000 meters = 25 days for 1
Up to 2500 meters = 30 days for 1
Up to 3000 meters = 35 days for 1


Anything beyond 3000 meters must be built under the Special Fleet rule.

Shipyards can not be combined except for special projects.



The break points are what I believe to me the most common types of length and seem to seperate ship class. The built guidelines should have a skewing to make building small ships attractive. one group with 3 yards in 35 days could produce 3 3000km ships, or 630 fighters. A good fleet player would mix em up.

Now in the fleet proposal, I mentioned fleet capping is at the discresion of the moderators / admins. That I think is the real power in the guidelines, if a fleet is getting absurd, it can be capped. Thence, say if one group ran full on fighters, it would get to the point where it would get stupid. That is when a mod steps in and says they cant support more at that point. The general guide is 10 Capital class ships per planet possessed by a group, except the four groups mentioned specifically, who are allowed leeway.

The other point is that established groups and proven players get benifits, which I would hope other new players see and try to aspire to, ie relaxed limits. I know that might stir up some people, but I really think that could be the only way to make sure fleets are sane with an inch thick rule book.

TheHolo.Net
Oct 9th, 2001, 12:21:05 PM
:: would really like to hear the opinion of Pierce on this one before giving it a complete thumbs up ::

Sanis Prent
Oct 9th, 2001, 02:34:18 PM
I like the strata on that listing...its in-depth enough to work.

Force Master Hunter
Oct 9th, 2001, 05:32:30 PM
. They are non-transferable

Edit : Assets not transferrable nor usable by other groups except under merger, with case means shipyard loss back to legal limits. Merger may result in request to downsize merged fleet.

Force Master Hunter
Oct 9th, 2001, 05:47:47 PM
Swfans.net Fleet Rules and guidelines – 10-10-2001

All ships built up to today and proved are hereby acknowledged and fall outside of these guidelines. All further production must adhere to the guidelines.

Shipyards

All shipyards are structures that are 40km in length. Design and look may vary. A yard takes 40 days to become active. Yards may be moved, this takes them out of production for 20 days. All yards may not possess offensive weaponry, but may have defensive shields and defensive weaponry. Yards are also not allowed to manouver except as above.

Specific minimum / maximum run built times
Fighters = 5 days for 30
Up to 50 meters = 7 days for 20
Up to 100 meters = 10 days for 15
Up to 250 meters = 15 days for 6
Up to 500 meters = 15 days for 3
Up to 700 meters = 15 days for 2
Up to VSD (900 meters) size = 15 days for 1
Up to ISD (1.6K) size = 20 days for 1
Up to 2000 meters = 25 days for 1
Up to 2500 meters = 30 days for 1
Up to 3000 meters = 35 days for 1


Anything beyond 3000 meters must be built under the Special Fleet rule.

Shipyards can not be combined except for special projects.
Note: - Capital ships that can hangar fighters and other ships do not have those other craft built at the same time. They must all be built separately.

Number of yards per faction:

New Rep: 5
Greater Jedi Order: Conceded yard allowance, Customer yard only
NR Special Forces: Conceded yard allowance, Maintenance / R&D / Ground Force production facility only

Galactic Empire: 4
Imperial Intelligence Headquarters: 1 (By allowance)

The Sith Empire: 4
The Sith Order: 3
Other Groups: 2 -- Given at least 5 active members and possession of a valid planet
The Cizerack:1 5km yard (by allowance)


These shipyards are representative of a group's total shipbuilding capacity. Assets not transferrable nor usable by other groups except under merger, with case means shipyard loss back to legal limits. Merger may result in request to downsize merged fleet. Details like planet location and number of yards in orbit is just for story material and do not impact these OOC guidelines. In addition, every group is allowed one civilian-run 40km shipyard which they can use to sell star ships to potential customers. It is illegal to use these customer shipyards for the military gain of your group.

Special Projects / New Technology

No super laser-wielding ships allowed except by 90 day production rule. If you wish to have a star ship with an onboard super laser, you must RP it, and there will be a 90 day construction period that will take your total full all yard capacity for that time. World Devastators require an RP, and take 90 days for 3 units, which will take entire full yard capacity. No ships bigger than 3000 unless you RP it and wait 90 days – this takes one yard 90 days, a group may only build one at a time, maximum length is SSD. Death Stars take 180 days and you must RP it and take full all yard capacity. Star Crushers are explicitly banned.

All ships under 2000m that are comparable to those that already exist are legally allowed to be developed without having an RP thread. Simply announce the specs to SWFans for review and you should be okay. Just as the major projects listed above, any innovative or radical tech is subject to the scrutiny and approval or disapproval of your fellow fleet RPers, group leaders, and moderators. Radical technology that is approved must take 90 days to research.

Battle Rules

You must allow your enemy 36 hours to reply to your posts.

NPC ships can be destroyed by vastly overwhelming firepower (ie, SSD vs X-Wing). PC ships are disabled and characters given chance to respond. Otherwise, use common sense as to damage inflicted. It is encouraged combatants negotiate and discuss a fight. It is noted a large ship may miss smaller ones. Again, use fairplay as a guide
.

Other

You can never destroy a planet.

Use your own judgment when role playing. These rules are not set in stone nor are meant to stifle your creative freedom.

Have fun. Winning isn't everything
The guiding rules of all roleplay must be followed ie :-

No God Mode
No Killing
No Maiming
Appropriate use of Common Sense and Fair Play
A sense of openness and a willingness to discuss and negotiate.

The three strike rule
Outright cheating or excessive disobedience to guidelines will be punished, first time by warning, second by loss of a yard, third by outright loss of allowance to fleet roleplay.
Administrator ruling are final

Resources.

A group must possess a valid planet to be allowed shipyards. A planet may be taken over by acceptable means, in a role-play no shorter than 25 acceptable size posts. This is negotiable.
No group with less than 5 planets is allowed a special fleet project. Special technology is allowed from time of first planet acquisition and not before.
Fleet size will be subjective. If a group is a major government / faction, allowance for that fact will be given. A small group in size and influence will not be allowed an absurd amount of ships, maximum is 10 capital ships per planet. It is hoped that good play would lead to a reward of a larger fleet allowance. Allowances are at the discretion of the moderators, except the explicitly stated groups at present
The New Republic
The Galactic Empire
The Sith Empire
The Sith Order

These groups are simply requested to use their own judgement as to an appropriate fleet size and are allowed this because either they are a Galatic government, or a very long established role play group. The Greater Jedi Order and the New Republic Special Forces have conditionally given up their rights to yards. The Cizerack Pride has been allocated a fleet without build proof, as they have given up the right to expand their fleet or to conquest. Imperial Intelligence has been allowed a small fleet due to continuous good roleplay.
This is a critical point. Good roleplay will bring relaxations of guidelines, this is hoped to encourage fair play.

Champion of the Force
Oct 9th, 2001, 06:19:37 PM
Fleet size will be subjective. If a group is a major government / faction, allowance for that fact will be given. A small group in size and influence will not be allowed an absurd amount of ships, maximum is 10 capital ships per planet.
Is this going to be a planned defining of major groups/minor groups and what rights etc each section would have?

I proposed a similar dilineation in January and it got shot down in burning flames, on the grounds it was 'unfair'. :\

Good idea though regardless.

Force Master Hunter
Oct 9th, 2001, 06:34:11 PM
I proposed a similar dilineation in January and it got shot down in burning flames, on the grounds it was 'unfair'


I remember. It wont this time.The allowance further down is that if you play fair, you get relaxations. Thence, those who play fair, get more as a direct result. Those who dont.... well, they just better take the hint.

Force Master Hunter
Oct 9th, 2001, 07:05:24 PM
Let me know when i have the go ahead to post so the community has the chance to look.

BTW, I have shown a few other long time RP'ers and general comment is they like them.

Sanis Prent
Oct 9th, 2001, 07:43:47 PM
I think these rules are fair and appropriate. While some rules are concrete, it gives sufficient margin for the "Gamemaster" option to be put in effect for those who roleplay in a fair manner.

TheHolo.Net
Oct 9th, 2001, 07:46:13 PM
Isn't the appointment of the two new moderators an implementation of a game master type concept already?

Force Master Hunter
Oct 9th, 2001, 08:50:45 PM
Isn't the appointment of the two new moderators an implementation of a game master type concept already?


Didnt think of it in those words, but in effect yes they are to a degree. Within the rules, they have a great deal of power, which is 100% deliberate. They have the power to deal with any issue and act as they see proper.