I Need 3 Judges ...

[Sorsha Kasajian]

... to judge a fight. It's still in progress, but I have the strong feeling it's going to go into total deadlock within the next few posts. It's going to need at least 3 judges to declare a victor. No matter what the outcome is, I don't want any room for controversy.

[Padd]

You will probably decline my offer, but I can judge if need be.

[Sorsha Kasajian]

The judges will need to be accepted by Dara Shadowtide as well, so I'm posting my wish list here.

1.) Yog
2.) Rama Sha
3.) ??? (Undecided)

[Sanis Prent]

You know you got me if you need me.

[Admiral Lebron]

Pick me! I'm neutral!

[Rama]

I accept. I have the fortune of a head start since I think I already know which fight it is you speak of.

[Xanatos Etanial]

I'd volunteer, but no one ever picks me.

::Goes to sit by himself::

::Looks at Rama's sig and laughs::

Hey look! He finally found that little button marked "anti-alias"

[Morgan Evanar]

I'll be happy to judge.

[imported_Dara Shadowtide]

I would agree to Yog and Rama Sha, and would suggest Figrin D'an as the third judge.

[Sorsha Kasajian]

I agree to Figrin then. I'm done with the thread. There's nothing more I can think of to do with it and it's ready to be judged at this point.

[Figrin D'an]

I accept. I have already scanned the thread, so I am familiar with it...

Link: http://pub59.ezboard.com/fthesempirefrm9.showMessage?topicID=197.topic

[Padd]

X (referring to Xanatos, not Rama's forhead), nobody ever picks me either :(

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Rock, is that a girl in your pic? Maybe I was wrong, but I thought you were a guy...

[Admiral Lebron]

Could be a guy.. look at Hanson, I thought they were three girls for a week, when they first came out. I was like 12 though..

[Padd]

WHY DOES EVERYBODY ASK ME THAT?!?! THAT IS NOT A GIRL, OK!?!?!

oops, excuse my moment of yelling

[Sorsha Kasajian]

I don't care, just take this debate out of here and start your own discussion thread.

:: Tosses everyone out except for Dara and the Judges ::

[Yoghurt]

I accept. My apologies for late reply. Have had some connection problems for the last couple of days.

Like the other judges, I have have also read through the thread.

[Sorsha Kasajian]

:: drags thread to the top ::

Okay, since the judges never made a judgement, I'm opening this up again for all the Role-Players to judge. Post away.

[imported_Dara Shadowtide]

I did not agree to those terms and still only agree to the original three judges, regardless of how tardy their reply might be. Maybe those three just need a reminder to post here..

[Lilaena De'Ville]

If you care for *my* opinion, I think that [edited out] is the one who came out on top. If you would like my explaination, I will be happy to give my exact reasonings. Excellent spar, though, on both parts.

edit: Didn't see Dara's post, sorry

[Figrin D'an]

So... are we to judge this, or is there now some sort of debate on the judgement process?

Just want to know, that's all.

And sorry about the delay... I had totally forgotten about this...

[Rama]

I honestly forgot about this as well......After 9-11 it just wasn't the first thing on my mind, and then Sorsha disappeared and just showed up again like 2 days ago......so I hadn't thought much about this. But im offended......are you saying just about everyone else is better judge then me? :lol

[Sorsha Kasajian]

Fair enough.

And no, I chose you for a reason, Rama.

[Rama]

And that reason is?

[Jeseth Cloak]

Here's my two cents... I originally wasn't going to post and say anything, but while it was a well written fight... Dara, you completely ignored some of Sorsha's attacks.

[Jedah Lynch]

Not that its against the law to aid ones two cents to something unless it triggers some sort of explosive device however...

....shouldnt the positives/negative comments be left up to the decided judges if they wish to give such feedback besides their choice for winner?

Unless either combatant ask for open judgement that is.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Jedah Lynch
Unless either combatant ask for open judgement that is.
O_o
Originally posted by Sorsha Kasajian
Okay, since the judges never made a judgement, I'm opening this up again for all the Role-Players to judge. Post away.

[Jedah Lynch]

Yes I know.

But the problem is.....


I did not agree to those terms and still only agree to the original three judges, regardless of how tardy their reply might be. Maybe those three just need a reminder to post here..

When Sorsha said Fair enough in her post after Dara it looked like she agreed. Unless mistaken on that fact and I could very well be. In which case both she and Dara need to decide on what to do.

Either way, be interesting to see what the judges thought and decide on. And if its open to everyone going to be fun being a critic of both heh. :wings

If not I'll just stand to the side making funny faces at them for my own amusement:)

[TheHolo.Net]

I didn't know that people weren't free to express their opinions, especially when asked to.

[Jedah Lynch]

But didnt Sorsha agree on only the three judges again?

If not the two of them have to agree on something in a mutual way.

[TheHolo.Net]

Did he claim to be a judge? No.
Did he express an opinion? Yes.
Am I making any assumptions? Not yet.
Are you trying to carefully tell people what they can or cant say based on what could be numerous assumptions? Sure looks that way.

[Jedah Lynch]

Getting a tad hostile aint we?

Lets just calm down and see what Sorsha says before this becomes something other then a friendly thread.

[TheHolo.Net]

I'm far from hostile. I just don't appreciate seeing anyone tell people what they can or cannot say, as long as what was said fits with the guidelines specified in our FAQs. Jeseth broke none of those guidelines and is free to express his opinion, just as I am free to express mine.
Originally posted by Jedah Lynch
Lets just calm down and see what Sorsha says before this becomes something other then a friendly thread. Something you should have considered before telling people what they can or cannot say.

[Rama]

I think we should all hold off till Dara and Sorsha agree on something and the judges (if it is us three or all of SWfans) have made their decsion. Then I think people should post their own thoughts on the battle. Right now.......someones opinon of the battle could influnce whatever judges are agreed upon.

[Jeseth Cloak]

I have a question... What exactly will the judges be deciding on concerning this fight?

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Sorsha Kasajian
... to judge a fight. It's still in progress, but I have the strong feeling it's going to go into total deadlock within the next few posts. It's going to need at least 3 judges to declare a victor. No matter what the outcome is, I don't want any room for controversy. Looks to me like declaring a victor.

[Jedah Lynch]

Something you should have considered before telling people what they can or cannot say.

Thats your opinion but wrong.

I said
....shouldnt the positives/negative comments be left up to the decided judges if they wish to give such feedback besides their choice for winner?

Its in the form of a question. It didnt say "Jeseth you cant post any negative or postive comments." I have no authority over Jeseth nor any one else, I can not prevent them from saying anything or doing anything. If they speak they speak.

Your really taking such a small thing out of context and making it into an issue where there wasnt one.

[TheHolo.Net]

Yes but in prefix to that question you said..


Not that its against the law to aid ones two cents to something unless it triggers some sort of explosive device however...Which makes your question out to be confrontational and accusatory. Negating it as a question IMO and making it an accusation/demand.

[Rama]

The Victor is being decided.

[Jedah Lynch]

Actually that was a joke :/

Granted a crappy one.

But thats all it was meant to be. Nothing else.

I certainly did not mean to accuse him of anything otherwise would come out and said it straight up.

[Jeseth Cloak]

Ack. I didn't read that part of the thread... oh well... lol. Don't worry about the whole thing. I don't listen to people, even when they are telling me what to do. :p

[TheHolo.Net]

A hint at it being sarcasm or a joke with a simple :p or :lol would have avoided the situation. :p

[Jedah Lynch]

Oh.

Bugger that smilie.

Really need to add those things, less fighting that way.

And Jeseth quiet you.:mad :p

..................

~_^

^_~

~_~

Just doesnt feel the same.
:|

Then again I wonder if congress used such things would they stop fighting......hahahahhahah:p


feh

*goes to play more MGS2*

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Originally posted by Sorsha Kasajian
I don't care, just take this debate out of here and start your own discussion thread.

:: Tosses everyone out except for Dara and the Judges ::

*points the the quote*

[Rama]

I'll second that.

[Sorsha Kasajian]

eeek, what a mess. The next three posts should be Yog, Rama, and Figrin. Sorry for not clarifying better.

[Rama]

Well im here......So I'll start.



Well first off im gonna say there are lots of gaps from both of you in the way of working in the others attacks. So since you both did that to an extent im not gonna factor that into my decsion. I can't very well have that has the basis of detrimeing a winner if you both did it.



Ok....Now as it comes to style. I really don't like the longer posts that Dara used, it seems to be a chore to read them at times, but it does give me a good picture of what she is doing....even if it is kinda Boreing. Sorsha's on the other hand are all over the place, and im finding it hard to tell what exactly she is going. It's hard to picture her part of the fighting at times.
(and yeah I do that......but thats why i don't ask to be judged to often. I know im hard to follow. :lol)

The action of the fight is overall pretty good, but at time i wondering. "Wha.........when did that happen....where did that come from." And im forced to back track and see if i can pin point it. And some of the moves in here, im like "What the hell.......I never saw Darth Vader do that." But I guess that's EUs fault and not really the RPers so I have to throw that out as well. Dara uses a lot of combo moves. Like 1 force related move and then to physical assualts. I like that......shakes it up a bit. Sorsha does this off and on......but most of the time limits herself to one or the other. And only Klingons carry this many weapons on them. Every other post there is a new weapon popping up. What is wrong with Lightsabers people? :lol


Over all this fight is kinda hard to follow.....you really have to try hard. Not saying it wasn't well written.....there was good writting on both sides of this, but I don't think the two of you were anywhere near the same page and that leads to the way it is now. But If i had to pick which one Rped it out better I'd have to say it was Dara. My main reason is that I could see her doing these things and with Sorsha I was lost at time.


My vote goes to Dara.

[Figrin D'an]

I've made my decision as well.

Rama makes a good point that I tend to agree with. There are some rather significant holes regarding acknowledgement of the opponent's attack on the part of both combatants. I felt that this did improve a bit later in the fight, but it was something that tended to jump out at me as I read and re-read the battle thread. One of the things that turns a good battle/RP into a great one is creatively incorporating opponents attacks into one's responses, both in terms of reacting to physical injury and perhaps developing an effective counter-move to the attack. It also makes the overall flow of the fight much more consistent, which is always a plus.

Okay... that point aside... I felt that the battle did involved some good attacks and defenses from a conceptual standpoint. In some cases, they were well executed, but on some occasions, it was kind of difficult to visualize exactly what was happening. It made reading the thread kind of choppy at times. But, the moves that I felt were executed well were easy to understand and visualize, so that does mean that you both had the right idea, but it just wasn't fleshed out that well at times.

Personally, I like detail. I like knowing the little things about a particular move or character reaction, like writing in stuff about physical injury, damage to surroundings, using one's environment to gain a tactical advantage, etc. So, I don't mind longer posts describing a single attack. As long as the content of the post makes the reader better understand the action at hand, it is more than appropriate. Quick descriptions/moves do have their place, but in the case of a one-on-one battle, the more (relevent) detail, the better. In this respect, I think Dara accomplished a great deal by using more descriptors in her posts. Sorsha's 'fast action' attacks/moves seemed somewhat less effective because some of them weren't described enough to really grasp what she was trying to accomplish.

I too did think the amount of weaponry was a bit excessive, but everyone has their own stylistic preferences, so I'm not going to really consider that in my judgement. Still, a bit more use of varied Force technique would have been a nice touch, on the part of both sides. Maybe the intent was to have a more martial arts type battle, which is fine if that was the case, but that's just my opinion.

I think this was a matter of conflicting styles that lead to a somewhat confusing fight. The other thing that troubled me was a touch of ignorance of opponent attacks, either writing 'around' them instead of 'with' them, or just not paying attention to them at all. I'm not going to site specific examples, as I think that by reading the thread again, instances regarding this point should become apparent.

For me, my judgement came down to simply what parts of the fight I could visualize and understand. Clearly defining moves/counter-moves in desciptive terms not only makes a battle thread more enjoyable to read, but it will also generally avoid arguements over god-moding and fighter-intent because ambiguity is taken out of the equation. (Sorry if this sounds kind of preachy...)


I judge in favor of Dara.

[Sorsha Kasajian]

:grumble The good guys always win. :rolleyes

[Master Yoghurt]

Two different styles here; short and to the point versus long and descriptive. What is the better? IMO, it is not how much you describe, but how you describe that matter. The reader should have a clear image of what is going on, and not lose interest. Sometimes you have to find a balance.

Here are a couple examples:

Sorsha second post: Decapitated head illusion! Oh, I love this one! That had me me WHOA! What is going on here?! Excellent use of imagery and nice element of surprise! Good example of how one can attract readers attention. However, at some points, especially the end there could be more details describing what happened. The concept is awesome, but the potential is even better.

Dara second post: Striking back good! A lot of great elements here! You also clearly display some talent for writing. I like how you describe everything. The one thing I am pondering about is, perhaps you do too many individual actions in one post sometimes. In retrospective, I sit back trying to figure everything that happened. Perhaps it is just me. It might for example be better trying to let the post span in less amount of time, portraying fewer things but in greater detail. Just my opinion.


Whole thread: In general, I think Dara's attention to detail and convincing descriptions gives her the edge in this one.

My vote goes to Dara

[Milivikal k'Vik]

Take your hand and cup it: Then slam it against your ear.

Even if you don't destroy your ear drum, the effects can be right nasty.

If you're standing, you aren't anymore.

[Ogre Mal Pannis]

Okay, my opinion wasn’t asked for, but I feel I have the right to express it anyhow. It doesn’t change the fact that the appointed judges have made their ruling, but it does differ from their opinions in some respects and in others it doesn’t.


Posted by Rama
Over all this fight is kinda hard to follow.....you really have to try hard. Not saying it wasn't well written.....there was good writting on both sides of this, but I don't think the two of you were anywhere near the same page and that leads to the way it is now. But If i had to pick which one Rped it out better I'd have to say it was Dara. My main reason is that I could see her doing these things and with Sorsha I was lost at time.
I agree with this statement, but my view is somewhat different. Probably because I spent a great deal of time when I was younger doing table top RP. In table top RP, turns (which I visualize as posts) consist of what are called rounds. A round is a set of characters completing their turns (in this case a post from one combatant and then the other equals one round). Normally a round is no longer than thirty seconds.

I myself know Sorhsa plays according to table top style rules herself and have for a long time. When I do an RP battle with someone I try to match their style as best I can, but I still usually find myself following the basic rules set forth in old fashioned table top RP. Which means that my posts don't normally span longer than thirty seconds and I only have time to either defend against an attack and make a non connecting (in my post) retaliation. Or I perform a move that consists of two parts, a part that may land or be a distraction of some kind, and a subsequent part that is also a move that doesn't connect within my post, leaving it to my opponent to deal with. That’s what I saw on one one side of this thread, Sorsha’s side. She stayed true to her roots and never did anything that took very long and she never did anything that I consider impossible for her character to achieve.

I was able to use my imagination and see what she was doing well without all the description. While on the other side, within those long descriptive posts I was often times wondering, what is Sorsha doing this whole time? Standing and watching twiddling her thumbs?


Posted by Master Yoghurt
The one thing I am pondering about is, perhaps you do too many individual actions in one post sometimes.It looks like I wasn’t the only one who noticed it.


Posted by Figrin D'an
There are some rather significant holes regarding acknowledgement of the opponent's attack on the part of both combatants.I do concede that happened on both sides of the coin and also find that to be a problem, but as I see it, such reactions became expected and were followed suit because of the Example set by the other combatant.

Alright, now onto my conclusion and who I think did a better job of role playing the battle. As I said before, I used to do a great deal of table top RP and that is where my roots lie, so that makes me lean toward the believable player in this thread, which IMO is Sorsha. Her posts may have been short and contain less pretty words and description, but I wasn’t left wondering how it was possible.

My judgment, an unofficial one, is for Sorsha.