hahaha, Darth23.... [Archive] - TheHolo.Net Forums

JonathanLB

Sep 29th, 2001, 02:45:56 AM

... the Harry Potter movie honestly looks utterly stupid. It was a terrible trailer and I don't expect anything from that film. LOTR, on the other hand, had good trailers. I wouldn't say they were absolutely great, though. Very good, yes. I don't get the hoopla about how they're the greatest ever. I mean COME ON, Trailer A and B for TPM were FAR, FAR more impressive. Just way better, simple as that.

Still, Fellowship of the Ring will be a good movie hopefully.

Potter just looks lame. I hope not, but it looks stupid to me. I couldn't get into the first book anyway. The writing is not my style. I don't like the informal, casual type of conversationalist writing that was evident immediately.

It's like that lousy book Anywhere But Here. I mean, I don't care how many copies that stupid book sells. It's one of the worst books ever written anywhere at any time. It's TERRIBLE. It is full of comma splices, full of grammatical errors, it has no plot, it's totally unreadable rubbish. It is just TRASH and how anyone could like it is beyond me. I heard the movie sucked the fat one too, but the book is far worse. It's just SOOOO bad I cannot believe that passes for good fiction now days.

I enjoy Hemmingway, I love books like The Republic, classics like that, and I love some Shakespeare (Macbeth is great, for instance), so I'm totally into great literature if it really is great, but Anywhere But Here is just an awful book. That author is coming to speak at my university Tuesday. I don't look forward to that. I wasted precious hours of my life reading her stupid book.

How she found an editor or a publisher for that is astonishing. I guess it just proves that anyone can suceed.

JonathanLB

Sep 30th, 2001, 01:26:32 AM

Anne McCaffrey is awesome! She's a wonderful writer, see, that is the kind of women author we SHOULD be reading in school, but what I basically mean is that the women authors they make us read in school are always just these feminist you-know-whats that honestly aren't that great of writers.

Anne Rice, yeah, her too.

Honestly they should make us read better books like fantasy and sci-fi stuff, because I HATE literary fiction. It's THE WORST genre in all of writing. Ugg, I don't know why it receives so much attention from those moronic critics. It's just like in the film industry where the stupidest little indie films get all of the critical praise. Literary fiction is nonsense and typically just pointless too. It's those types of books that have no real plot or purpose but just meander their way along describing some STUPID, common element of life that I really don't care about reading.

I love genre fiction, it's the only real writing. Sci-fi books rock as do fantasy ones.

Doc Milo

Sep 30th, 2001, 01:36:54 AM

The Lord of the Rings has a massive buit in fan-base -- probably as massive or even more massive that Star Wars. If the fan-base of the books shows up for the movies, it can be a huge hit, especially on opening weekend. LotR is also, I believe, going to have a broader international appeal than Star Wars does. So it has the potential to be a great hit, especially world wide.

I don't think it will break any records for gross, with the possible exception of opening weekend. But I do feel it can crack the top ten, domestic and international.

JonathanLB

Sep 30th, 2001, 01:54:00 AM

What is wrong with this board?!

My message in response to you is somehow all mixed up, LOL. That's really stupid looking.

Anyway... No, LOTR does not have a fan base anywhere near as big as Star Wars, nor does any other fan base compare to ours.

:) Read it and remember it:

Jedi Master Carr

Sep 30th, 2001, 07:44:06 AM

Who wrote Anywhere but here? The book sounds familar but I can't rembember where I heard it. As far as Harry Potter realize their children books so for Children they are good literature, I wouldn't expect much from it much like the Wizard of Oz books which would never be confused with Hemingway or Shakespear (I am not disisng you Jon just those as examples). Now I don't know if Harry Potter will be this generations Wizard of Oz but it is anything like the books it should make 200-300 million domestically. I'm still hoping FOTR does better. It will have a huge opening, I think it has a great chance ofl breaking POTA opening record and make 70+ opening weekend. Then it will depend on its drops, if it doesn't have POTA drops it could vary well approach 300 and become the #1 movie of the year.

Darth23

Sep 30th, 2001, 07:59:27 AM

I knew they were going to close that thread when i started it.

I'm most definitely going to see FOTR when it comes out, but I keep looking at the trailers, includng te new one, and I just don't care that much. Probably because I never read the trilogy (only the Hobbit) and also because I sat through that Bakshi flick when it came out.

Many of the LOTR fans think it's going to be the greatest movie series ever created, and that it's going to blow everything else away at the BO, but to me it looks, I don't know. I guess we'll see.

Jedi Master Carr

Sep 30th, 2001, 08:06:10 AM

Please don't mention the animated films they are just utter Garbage. First the animation stinks and with the LOTR they basically just make the ROTK which is like Lucas just filming the ROTJ. I'm still looking foward to I guess because I read all the books as kid and to me the trailer does look amazing, I'd say its the second best trailer ever after TPM trailer B. As far as box office who can tell it will make at least 200 but it could do even better like 300.

JonathanLB

Sep 30th, 2001, 12:10:06 PM

I agree somewhat with you Darth, but I thought the trailer was really good. I mean, I wouldn't say it was one of the best I have seen. It wasn't. It was very interesting, though, and I still think the movies are going to rule. They will not be the biggest things ever, though, haha, and no they won't set any new box office records. Not for a day. Not for a weekend. Not for anything.

I still think the first film will do quite well, though. Just not much more than $200 million max.

As for Harry Potter, well yeah it is directed for kids somewhat and maybe they like the more conversationalist style of book. I personally hate it. I like very formal writing.

I end up not liking most books written by girls, to be honest. I think many women authors just write too sappy for me and I honestly cannot stand most of the "best" women authors. Amy Tan is awful. She's a decent writer but, for instance, The Joy Luck Club is total trash. Every guy I have ever heard who read it hated it. I hate it too. It's the stupidest book in history besides that dumb piece of toilet paper Anywhere But Here. Mona Simpson wrote that, by the way.

The real difference is that most women authors seem to write in this disgusting emotional way that only appeals to girls, so no guys will ever read or enjoy their BS work. I love reading Michael Crichton's stuff and there are a lot of great male authors. All of the famous classics basically are by guys except for like Frankenstein by Mary Shelley, which might I add is some of the worst, most pitiful writing I have ever seen. The story itself is WONDERFUL. She did a great job with it and of course it's a total classic. The imagery is fantastic and her command of storytelling is almost unsurpassed, but her writing style and grammar is very, very poor. She uses too many semicolons per page (five to six sometimes, when really one should avoid using more than one even), but there's a lot more wrong with her writing than just that. I found it quite distracting, really.

I can excuse her poor style, though, because her imagery and storytelling is just excellent.

To be fair, she was only about 17 when she wrote Frankenstein, but even so, I was 17 when I wrote my book and my style was already far more developed than hers, so I don't make excuses like that. Maybe if someone started writing at 30 they will say, "Wow, well she was 17, so it's acceptable." No. 17-year-olds are just as capable as anyone else if they train themselves well enough, so I don't accept age as an excuse for ignorance of basic grammar rules.

I just want to read a FEW great books by women authors that aren't either 1) totally sappy garbage 2) aimed solely at other women.

When I find a few books like that, I will be impressed, but I am far more taken with authors such as C.S. Lewis of the Narnia Chronicles, Hemmingway, Mark Twain even (although his writing style is very odd indeed), Faulkner, Edgar Allan Poe (AHH! He is so good!), Shakespeare, etc.

JonathanLB

Sep 30th, 2001, 12:18:55 PM

I don't want it to seem like I think women are any less of writers than men. Actually, I feel the opposite most of the time. Most of the guys in my English classes were all total idiots and the girls I have encountered are almost WITHOUT exception all better writers than the guys.

I edited two papers in English 100 (College Writing, required) the other day, one by an Asian girl whose first language is not even English, and one by a normal white guy and I swear the girl's writing was about ten times better. I was pretty amazed, given that she's not even a native. How impressive!

I've read faaaaar too many bad books by women authors lately, though, so I'm getting burnt out on the whole "women's book for women" nonsense. Most guys do not ever write a book that is just for guys. There really aren't too many that few girls will enjoy, but Anywhere But Here and The Joy Luck Club are both books that absolutely no guy could ever like because they totally suck. A lot of girls don't like them either, but that's beside the point. I'm not sure how either book sold so many copies. It just shows that sales really don't mean much in the literary world when it comes to books like that because if that kind of trash, which is just useful for fire kindling, can actually make money, then we live in a weird world indeed.

Jedi Master Carr

Sep 30th, 2001, 02:01:56 PM

How about Anne Rice, Jon, I wouldn't consider her sappy. I am sure there are others Anne Macafrey(sp) along with a couple other fantasy writers whose names I can't remember. I understand what you mean though I remember in high school having to read Pride and Predjuice because the class was dominated by girls (I voted for a Brave New World) and that was the worst book I have ever read I could barely read the thing. Back to LOTR I think it could surprise people either way, it has a chance of breaking the weekend record because it comes out in mid December and everybody is out of school by then because of the Christmas break. Also I would be willing to bet it would do it mostly because I never thought RH2 nor POTA or MR for that matter was going to break TPM's record since those three films did and FOTR to me is a much bigger film than any of the three, I think it has a solid chance of doing it. It will at least make 60 that weekend but I wouldn't be surprised if it topples the weekend record.

Champion of the Force

Sep 30th, 2001, 10:36:43 PM

Potter just looks lame. I hope not, but it looks stupid to me. I couldn't get into the first book anyway. The writing is not my style. I don't like the informal, casual type of conversationalist writing that was evident immediately.
Well I for one LOVE Harry Potter.

And I only started reading the books on Friday. I have now just finished the 3rd one and would read the 4th if my sister would hurry up and finish it (grumble mutter).

I can honestly say I have not had this much fun reading a book since I first read The Hobbit 9 years ago.

But we all have our tastes. :)

JonathanLB

Sep 30th, 2001, 11:51:07 PM

I did not read enough of Harry Potter to pass a true judgment on the books, just on the writing, but that might only bother me. I am bothered by writing styles that other people just don't notice.

Plus, I am in the severe minority when I say Harry Potter is not really my deal. So, you are obviously free to like the books as tens of millions of other people do! They are modern classics and you have to recognize the success of R.K. Rowlings to write such amazingly successful literature and really bring many new people into literature. Many people who don't normally read are now interested because of her books, and that's a good thing for everyone...

General Tohmahawk

Oct 1st, 2001, 12:19:47 AM

As one who has read the Potter books, the trailer looks brilliant - because it is looking accurate to the books. Very accurate.

That gives me hope it's going to be good.

Champion of the Force

Oct 2nd, 2001, 08:25:08 PM

Same here. I've just finished the 4th book and I am sooooooooo looking forward to the film.

I can't wait to see the Quidditch match. :)

Doc Milo

Oct 3rd, 2001, 04:20:14 PM

Anyway... No, LOTR does not have a fan base anywhere near as big as Star Wars, nor does any other fan base compare to ours.

I'd beg to differ. Although there is a big difference between a fan base of novels and a fan base of movies, so it really isn't fair to compare.

These novels, however, have a huge following, spanning many more decades than Star Wars -- especially internationally. Will the fans of the novels show up for the movies is the big question. Plus there is the age of the fan base. Many of the LotR fans are much older than Star Wars fans. Sure, Star Wars will own the younger fan-base. And it is yet to be seen if the older fan-base of LotR will show up for the films -- or even if they are as passionate about LotR as SW fans are of Star Wars.

Many LotR fans are also Star Wars fans. There is a huge crossover. But I'd be willing to bet that the amount of older LotR only fans is just about equal to the younger Star Wars only fans. I think you underestimate the wide-spread appeal these novels have had, and continue to have, Jon.

ReaperFett

Oct 3rd, 2001, 04:27:27 PM

Doc, I beg to differ. I have only been in a class with about 4 people who havent seen one SW film. Not even 1/4 have read a LOTR book (me included)

Mu Satach

Oct 3rd, 2001, 06:04:54 PM

Apples and Oranges...

Champion of the Force

Oct 3rd, 2001, 10:42:43 PM

Originally posted by ReaperFett
Doc, I beg to differ. I have only been in a class with about 4 people who havent seen one SW film. Not even 1/4 have read a LOTR book (me included)
And in Year 12 3 years ago only a handful had seen a SW film, yet many had read at least The Hobbit, if not LOTR as well.

So what's your point? :)

Jedi Master Carr

Oct 4th, 2001, 01:01:27 AM

I agree with Doc LOTR does have a large fan base probably not as large as SW in terms of numbers but I would bet that it comes close just look at all these online polls at the movie most people are looking foward too. The last one I saw had LOTR and AOTC about tied, but I have seen some that had LOTR beating it. I think most of the fans will show up opening day and it will have the largest opening ever (mainly because it opens everywhere the same day) I'd say in the U.S it will do somewhere between 60-70 and probably over a 100 worldwide. It will easily make 500 internationally, I think beyond that it will depend on if the LOTR fans are as diehards as the SW fans that is impossible to guage. Still, if the LOTR become extremly mad at how the movie treats the books it could hurt the gross keeping from getting over 250 domestically and 500 overall, it would also hurt the sequels because the fans might not come back. Hopefully they remain somewhat faithful and the films are as awesome as I think they will be.

Doc Milo

Oct 4th, 2001, 01:03:02 AM

Originally posted by ReaperFett
Doc, I beg to differ. I have only been in a class with about 4 people who havent seen one SW film. Not even 1/4 have read a LOTR book (me included)

Yes, I did say the younger audience would have more SW fans than LotR fans. But the LotR fan base is older, so if you're only polling a younger crowd, of course you would get those numbers.

JonathanLB

Oct 4th, 2001, 02:38:12 PM

Even in general, there are probably about ten times less people who have read any LOTR book than have seen any Star Wars film. Almost everyone in the US has seen a Star Wars film, yet there are people who cannot even read!

Among people in the under 13 category, SW probably outnumbers LOTR like 100 to 1 or more, but even if you look at people who are over 40, my grandpa has never read LOTR, he hates fantasy, neither has my grandma or my dad. I think my mom might have read one of the books but I'm not sure of that either.

Reading just isn't as popular as seeing movies. Plus, there are too many books around and not enough movies. :) 60,000 books per year and like 250 major films, many of them are not even really "major."

Mu Satach

Oct 5th, 2001, 06:36:06 PM

Originally posted by JonathanLB
my grandpa has never read

That's not something I'd be too proud of. ;)

Originally posted by JonathanLB
Reading just isn't as popular as seeing movies. Plus, there are too many books around and not enough movies.

I just read a report the other day that the LOTR books are flying off the shelves. This year alone in anticipation for the movie their sales have trippled what they normally do. The book(s) is/are also one of the best selling books of all time.

Also when you stop and think about that this upcoming trilogy has had very little media hype, just word of mouth and their web site, it is one of the most eagerly aniticipated films coming up this Christmas.

And whether or not you've personally read the books doesn't mean you don't know about them.

Plus your remark about the 13 and younger crowd is silly because most people don't start reading things like LOTR until they are in Jr. High or High School. AND basing your assumption on the 40+ crowd on your personal family is also irrelevant. My Grandmother, Grandfather, and Mother also have not read the books. That proves nothing.

Champion of the Force

Oct 5th, 2001, 10:10:46 PM

I just read a report the other day that the LOTR books are flying off the shelves. This year alone in anticipation for the movie their sales have trippled what they normally do.
True true. I've read they've sold more copies in the past 6 months or so than in the previous 4-5 years. :eek

Doc Milo

Oct 6th, 2001, 02:21:46 AM

Also, Jon, just how many books originally published in 1954 sell enough every year to warrant reprint after reprint after reprint?

JonathanLB

Oct 6th, 2001, 06:48:40 AM

There is no argument here. I didn't say that LOTR wasn't popular. There have been TONS of articles on how many more books have been sold this year and I've personally seen like, I swear, ten different versions of the books recently.

I wanted to buy this gold-embossed set that looked really sweet but I'm not that high on funds now anyway.

I was not basing anything on my immediate family, but I guarantee that NO age group has read LOTR more than has seen Star Wars. That's an absurd notion and you know it.

ReaperFett

Oct 6th, 2001, 06:54:49 AM

Doc, Starship Troopers. 1958, still a big seller. There's one :)

Course, you know LOTR will be badly recieved, yeah? The way it is being hyped up, most people cant fail to be dissapointed, a la TPM. More people like TPM now. Why? Because the uberhype has gone.

Also, SW would have a larger fanbase, for this reason. Star Wars is 2 hours long. LOTR would take days to read, maybe weeks. People with a few hours spare could watch a film on TV, or rent the video. Not with LOTR.

AND (more:)), LOTR fanbase is old, yeah? Old meaning there would be less cinema goers. I'd bet there will be a few not going to see the movie, either due to not going cinema, or the "dont want to watch the book be ruined" reason

Doc Milo

Oct 6th, 2001, 02:16:21 PM

Oh, I agree with you there, Reaper. I already admitted that many (especially older) fans probably won't show up for the movie. And I'm not counting anyone who has ever seen Star Wars as a Star Wars fan.

I don't think that LotR-FotR will out-gross any of the SW movies -- I just think that it's fan-base is large enough to make it a huge hit, and possibly big enough to break an opening weekend record. But I think that's mainly because a lot of the older LotR fans will stay away because of the things Reaper has said. (Also, have to consider that a lot of the fan-base might consist of some deceased members :\

Jedi Master Carr

Oct 6th, 2001, 02:17:33 PM

Starship Troopers hasn't done that well I can barely find a copy anywhere I would have to go to Books a million just to get one. LOTR has a large fan base sure not as large as SW but its there. As far as let down, if people go in thinking the film will be the second coming they will be let down and they are idiots. Nobody should go into a film thinking that way. When I go to see I will go in hoping for the best not just try to enjoy the ride. Stil, doc I know of a lot of people younger than me who can't wait to see it I can think of 20 people who have told me they are going to check it out. I think the LOTR much like SW is a timeless tale and that is why it attracts so many people. I still stand by my feeling that it will break a weekend record, mostly because it will be seen world wide, and I am certain it will make between 250-300 domestically and somwhere around 500-700 WW. Those are great numbers sure they don't beat SW numbers but that will still be amazing. Also I saw the most recent trailer and it was very impressive, the best one yet. I love how they show the dark riders man I can't wait to see it now.

ReaperFett

Oct 6th, 2001, 02:26:48 PM

SST is one of the top 5 non-series reprinted novels. Sounds lke it is popular to me :)

Ill get that figure spot on when I find my copy :)

Jedi Master Carr

Oct 6th, 2001, 02:34:51 PM

Where, in the U.S or Internationally? Its just that I have never seen it stores that much and also most people that I know when I talk to them about Science fiction authors have never heard of Heinlein, they probably have heard of Starship Troopers (but they will just think of a stupid movie not his great book). Sure Heinlein was popular from 50-70's but his books aren't as read as much as they used to, he has been replaced by Crichton, King, among others. Most people today, at least in the U.S hasn't read his books (unfortunently they haven't read the works of other science fiction writers such as H.G Wells, Jules Verne, Ray Bradbury, and Issac Asimon). I won't say its not the same with Tolken but either a lot of young people have read the books or they are interested in because of what they know about. Still you have to say that LOTR is popular when is the second most sold book ever after the Bible.

ReaperFett

Oct 6th, 2001, 02:37:17 PM

Has to be a huge seller to remain in print for 40 years remember

but as said before, many of the people who have read them are getting older now. I actually do know more who read SST than LOTR. Ah, the fun we had. half preferred the novel. Half preferred the movie. I was halfway. T'was great *sniff*

Jedi Master Carr

Oct 6th, 2001, 02:44:26 PM

I don't know if most of the fans are getting old, I'm a fan of the series and I wouldn't consider myself far from old (I'm 26 by the way) and as I said I know a lot of people younger than me and around the same age who have read the novels (some of them have only read it recently). As I said some of the people who want to see it have never read the novels but are basically just intregued in the film and that is were most of the audience will come from IMO.

JonathanLB

Oct 6th, 2001, 03:06:49 PM

"Also, SW would have a larger fanbase, for this reason. Star Wars is 2 hours long. LOTR would take days to read, maybe weeks."

Yes... That is just what I was getting at. People are impatient, especially Americans, haha.

Mu Satach

Oct 8th, 2001, 05:08:00 PM

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
...most people that I know when I talk to them about Science fiction authors have never heard of Heinlein, they probably have heard of Starship Troopers...

Most people today, at least in the U.S hasn't read his books (unfortunently they haven't read the works of other science fiction writers such as H.G Wells, Jules Verne, Ray Bradbury, and Issac Asimov

Good Grief! How can any self respecting Sci-Fi fan NOT know about these people! ACK! Wells, Verne and Bradbury are what made me fall in love with sci fi! tsk tsk tsk... King's work is so lame compared to them.

Tried reading Heinleins Stranger in a Strange Land once... got too political for me. I'm just not into Groking. :\

Jedi Master Carr

Oct 9th, 2001, 12:08:32 AM

I don't completely disagree with you I love both Wells and Verne and Bradbury is a great writter too, I was just saying a lot of young people don't read its just the unfortunate truth, and if they do read it is popular fiction like King, Crichton, Grishman, Clancy, etc. None of these writers are bad, but except for maybe King I would call any of them great writters just good popular writers in the same tradition of writers like Alexandre Dumas, and Sir Walter Scott were in the 19th century. I disagree about King, I think he is a great writter when he wants to be read Green Mile, The Shawshanks Redemption, The Stand, Hearts in Atlantis, and his newest book Dreamcatcher. These are great books and hopefully he will be remembered for these novels and not his popular stuff like Carrie or Pet Cemetary which are good books but just not books that should be remember. Of course this is just my opinion and I know there are still some people who scoff at King's work for various reasons but I just happen to think he is a great writer.

JonathanLB

Oct 9th, 2001, 01:46:07 AM

I would have to disagree with you about Michael Crichton. He is a great writer and his writing includes many universal themes and messages that are not always present in normal popular works. Although you can enjoy Crichton, like Star Wars, on a superficial level, there is much more there and he is truly one of the smarter guys around. He's the most financially successful author in history and that alone makes him worth more than just a footnote in the literary world. He proves that it is possible for authors to make lots and lots of money but also write well and intelligently.

As one reviewer was pointing out, his bibliographies are certainly a great deal more detailed than most other popular authors whose books you find in the airport book stores or whatever. Crichton is wonderful and many of his books are total masterpieces, namely Jurassic Park and The Great Train Robbery, but I love Congo. The Andromeda Strain is still a very good book, not one of his better ones, but it's good...

I wish I could be like a Michael Crichton one day, hehe.

Mu Satach

Oct 9th, 2001, 05:26:40 PM

Man it so blows that people don't take the time to instill the fun of reading with their children when they are young.

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
I disagree about King, I think he is a great writter when he wants to be read Green Mile, The Shawshanks Redemption, The Stand, Hearts in Atlantis, and his newest book Dreamcatcher. These are great books and hopefully he will be remembered for these novels and not his popular stuff like Carrie or Pet Cemetary which are good books but just not books that should be remember. Of course this is just my opinion and I know there are still some people who scoff at King's work for various reasons but I just happen to think he is a great writer.

Ack, you caught me... completely was not thinking about some of his less "oogy" stuff. I sort of lost my taste for King back in early 90's. I had read most of his scary stuff and was getting bored to tears with the reacuring pattern. I do like "Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption" and the other short novella's he's written.

One thing I've always admired about King is his abilty to describe things. He can describe stuff with such great detail you almost believe it's real.

As for Crichton, never have gotten around to his stuff, but I'm tempted by one of his latests. He took the basic ideas off of some experimental physist guy I caught on Tech TV the other night... now that guys book I have to read... he's close to mathmatically proving that parallell universes exist. :D I'll have to hunt around for his name though.

Ahhh found it! Good ol Amazon.com. :D

Hyperspace : A Scientific Odyssey Through Parallel Universes, Time Warps and the Tenth Dimension by Michio Kaku.

Dood is cool. :smokin