Interesting debate...

[JMK]

An article posted today was talking about the importance of AOTC on the entire star wars saga. I found it to have a number of intereting things to say, but most notably, this quote:


Either this is going to sweep in the next generation of fans, or people will leave it in the dust for Lord of the Rings, Matrix and Spider-Man. Attack of the Clones is far more critical to Lucasfilm than anyone knows. There are a ton of people on the edge of giving up on Star Wars altogether

I, for one find this to be absolutely true. Many people I know were less than thrilled with TPM, and if AOTC sucks (to them), then Star Wars will lose those fans for sure. While us die hards here will never admit to AOTC sucking, we'll always be fans and will probably see it many many times. The General public, however, is a different story...thoughts?

[Champion of the Force]

Just curious, but where was this article? I'd like to read the whole thing myself.

Regarding the quote, well for me it's still too hard to call at this time.

Sure, critics are saying that everyone was disappointed by TPM, but it went on to make the 2nd highest gross worldwide (after Titanic). Not bad for a 'disappointment'.

Plus also there's other things like marketing and advertising. One of my biggest gripes with TPM was the way Fox handled all the advertising - WAY too much. I swear that if I see another poster with Maul on it I will scream. There was just too much SW stuff around, which led to incredible overhype of how great the film was going to be, so inevitably some were bound to be disappointed.

The again, I do agree that if AOTC sucks too some fans they may give up on SW - at least the prequels. I've already seen it at TFN, where some disgruntled fans are doing their best to have any attempted merger of the TPM and OT forums cut down. I fear that's what it can come down too - fans of the Prequels vs. fans of the Original Trilogy, with a few in between.

So I'm going to adopt a 'wait and see' approach.. :)

[Doc Milo]

I don't understand the "leave it for ...." argument. Isn't there room to be fans of two franchises? It's like the whole Star Wars vs. Star Trek thing. I just don't get it. Why can't people like both?

As for this being critical to the Star Wars franchise, I'm not sure I agree. I think the people who didn't like TPM were not a very big majority, but a very vocal minority. I doubt there will be enough of an exodus to make any significant difference.

I think people (well most, anyway) will go to see Episode III regardless of how AotC is received or liked -- I doubt people will abandon Star Wars and "go to LotR or Matrix or Spiderman."

I think AotC, regardless of how people like it, will still gross very well, probably at least as much as TPM -- or in that same neighborhood -- even as those other movies do quite well, as well.

[Jedieb]

I think fans who were dissapointed with TPM are quite ready to give up on SW if AOTC dissapoints them as well. But you know what? Even if AOTC doesn't restore the balance to their SW universe the prequels will still march on and due killer business. They'll each gross over $300M and with the help of inflation and time may well gross over $400M, maybe $500M. What many dissapointed fans fail to realize is that despite Jar Jar and the Wizard boy TPM still had excellent word of mouth and a great summer run. For the most part, kids didn't mind Jar Jar or Anakin one bit. While many older fans wanted TPM to mature along with them, GL went in another direction. But damn, films that people hate simply don't make $400M. If I'm not mistaken, isn't that B.O. gross Matrix times 2? Fans who loved the edge of the Matrix can't understand why so many more people went to see TPM. What they don't get is that the B.O. doesn't revolve around them, it just seems that way. Films that crack the top 5 always bring in people to the movies that don't usually go to the movies. That's a major reason they make so much damn money.

I think those that were dissapointed withTPM will find many of their wishes answered with the inevitable darker tone that awaits us. But even if AOTC disappoints them, they'll still buy tickets to EP3. They may not buy 5, but they'll still see it at least once. I think AOTC is going to deliver what they want; more action, less Jar Jar, and a better acting and older Anakin. Plus, Samuel Jackson is going to kick butt. What else could they possibly want?

[JMK]

A scantily clad Portman? Just an idea, not that I'd like that in a Star Wars movie....

[Hart]

I would :)

As for shakey fan-creator relations, I don't really think it's possible to screw up that bad with a Star Wars movie. TPM came a little close, but far from a total disaster.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Theforce.net has been busy lately here is a related story that could or could not damper some opinion's about EP 2

Slap Maxwell checking in. I have recently gotten a little preview of "the film so far" from the inside so to speak. Let me tell you I was not as impressed as I thought I would be. For those who are expecting AotC to be on par with The Empire Strikes Back, you may end up sorely disappointed. So far the film is shaping up to be the most wildly uneven of the saga, moreso than Return of the Jedi.
Although the hopes of Star Wars fans around the world were uplifted by news that George Lucas would have help this time around with the screenplay, it would seem that co-screenwriter Jonathan Hales has not done as much as I had hoped to lift Episode II above the shortcomings of Episode I. Many criticized Lucas for having written a weak script for the first of his Star Wars prequel trilogy, The Phantom Menace.

But aside from what some felt about Episode I, let's quickly get to the good about Episode II: Attack of the Clones. Here's what is working, and let me assure you it is really working: The action sequences have improved yet again this time around - the fight scenes are absolutely awesome and you will definitely be impressed. Lots of action, great fights are sure to keep fans of the actions side of the franchise wholheartedly engaged. Again on the plus side, the ending battle in AotC is a real doozy, making TPM's finale seem like an unfinished oil painting by comparison. Absolutely blown away by it. And again a real positive note is that the political intrigue in Episode II is much more engaging than in TPM and may well significantly change how we view the classic trilogy. That is all working seriously in favor of the second prequel, and I'm sure that will help ease the message to follow.

However, the story and character development has not progressed much at all. The romance in Episode I was far from developed, some people expressing concern over the Queen having 'feelings' for the young Anakin. In Episode II so far, the romance between Anakin and Padme is once again contrived and honestly laughable at moments. Definitely not how I envisioned the two getting together, and I think if others had seen this they would feel the same way. I would love to have seen Hayden Christensen and Natalie Portman delivering those lines. Some people were probably overreacting or joking about the movie when they said they were looking for work elsewhere, but there are quite a few people less than impressed with that whole part of the story. There are some real hits and misses so far in the movie.

The question is really this - is what is working good enough to counter balance the bits that are terribly weak? Only time will tell, since the film is uneven right now. Here's to hoping that the time booked at the studio for reshoots and pick-ups will be used wisely, and that they'll redo the entire love story from scratch.

First off I doubt this guy has seen the whole film I doubt he has a clear picture of the film besides its not even finished yet the FX and score for example haven't been done. Second most of what he says I have no problem with and most SW fans will love it if it he is right about the action, the political intriegue, and the ending. Now as far as the love story goes it is only this guys opinion so the rest of us might see it different because romance is pretty subjective, heck all the girls may love the romance aspect of the film while many of us guys might not it is impossible to say. Reall I think theforce.net, especially Josh Griffin who is responsible for both articles, seems to be tring to lower our expectations from the clouds and make us come in and just enjoy the movie. It seems there are some fans who think EP2 will be the best film ever, which is too high of an expectation to put on any movie.

[BUFFJEDI]

First off I look forward to the Fight scenes LOVE Them .Second I dont think anyone has ever thought ep2 would have Titanic type love story (it wouldnt work). Opinions are like ars holes (we all have one). I think as long as Lucas Answers questions in the film, that Fans have always wanted to know ,Thats all the Character development Most fans need or want.Like why Annie turns bad , where did Boba fett come from, things like that

The force will be strong in this one .I'll start the Guessing game on gross at 550-600 mil. AS LONG AS the action/fight scenes are good.

I will also say I was never EVER disappointed in TPM . By far the greatest movie EVER.

[Jedieb]

I just saw CTHD and I have to say I was very impressed. There was a great action film that also had a love story, two actually. You can have a love story and still not go the Titanic route. AOTC needs a love story because it's critical to the plot. Anakin and Padme have to get together. ESB wasn't ruined by the Han/Leia love story and AOTC doesn't have to be either. I hope that GL can pull it off. A weak or unconvincing love story can hurt AOTC, but I'll reserve my judgement until I actually see the movie. I'm not going to let some "insider" make up my mind for me.

[Doc Milo]

Plus, anyone can write that they have inside information. How do we know that this person didn't just have a bad dream about it and decide to write TFN?

Plus, seeing an unfinished product, if true, is not a very good measure to judge anything.

[BUFFJEDI]

Doc, just noticed your new sig,It's great !

[Doc Milo]

Thanks Buff!

[Hart]

I'm liking everything that guy said. I don't see the downsides that he was hinting to.

[Lord Exar Kun]

Well, I for one certainly hope that AotC is better that TPM.

First off, I am not bashing TPM, but I will admit this much, Lucas made TPM with the younger and more impressionable Star Wars fan in mind and not the aged, long-time fan, which I am damn proud to say that I am.

I know of many people I have talked to in either chat rooms or message boards never saw Star Wars: A New Hope in the movie theatre back in 1977.

Another complaint that I have is that Lucas, who is usually a stickler for detail, let the ships, droids and settings look more modern that what we last saw at the end of Return of the Jedi.
Case in point: Study the images of Coruscant from RotJ and compare them to the scenes of Coruscant in TPM. How are we supposed to believe that TPM takes place BEFORE RotJ?

Matrix-style fighting and special effects WILL NOT save this film from critical failure in the eyes of Star Wars fans.
Badwagon fans might love it to death like they loved TPM, but the Star Wars fan who hang out in chat rooms, message boards, talk about it as though it was part of their normal everyday life will not accept those type of stunts to get people interested in the movie.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I for one do not want Lucas to use Matrix effects in any of his films that would just be stupid. From what I have read I don't think Lucas will he seems more willing to do his own thing. As far as the look of TPM vs the OT I think it was suppose to look more gradoise and modern because the Empire destroyed the modern world and its evil made it look more old decreptive that is just my opinion though, I have heard too many statements from Lucas or his people, although I did read somewhere that the reasons the Y-wings look so banged up is because of the Clone Wars.

[Doc Milo]

Originally posted by Lord Exar Kun
Another complaint that I have is that Lucas, who is usually a stickler for detail, let the ships, droids and settings look more modern that what we last saw at the end of Return of the Jedi.
Case in point: Study the images of Coruscant from RotJ and compare them to the scenes of Coruscant in TPM. How are we supposed to believe that TPM takes place BEFORE RotJ?

The reason for the more "modern" look and feel of TPM is because of the situation. During the time of ANH thru RotJ, the galaxy is in the midst of a civil war. The Empire is creating "cookie-cutter" battleships, rather than the more "sportscar-like" ships we see in TPM. War has a tendency to make a more advanced culture look older than a peace-time culture. You can see this throughout our own world history. So in this manner, Lucas is paying attention to detail. If the situation in both times were the same (IE--both were wartime or both were peacetime) then you'd have a point. But peacetime (which TPM is; it is at the precipice of war, but it is not wartime) usually looks more advanced than wartime.)

[BUFFJEDI]

:rolleyes