MACHINISTS METAL HELMET Questions

[Helmschmied]

Would it be possible to machine a helmet? Since even the original DP Deluxe had applique pieces for the side and scope, if we removed these things..the basic helmet aint terribly complex.

Now the dome is not perfectly round I realize, but what if a CNC machine went to work on an initially spun helmet?..I know of some places that spin metal domes...could a CNC machine carve out the tip and basic sides?...and then later machine out the applique pieces on the sides?

[jbarela]

bump

[Mandalorian]

Helm - any update on the armor? Also never had a reply from the email I sent to you 2 weeks ago.......... M. :smokin:

[pettibone2375]

Helm,

What does this have to do with a Metal helmet?? You mean color wise??

I am just hoping that you get the "bug" to maybe try to start the all metal helmets again.

Brandon
pettibone2375

[Helmschmied]

well, the bug as you refer to it is more like the bucks...needed to finance this project. See, the way I figurerd it, was that I would have to spend about 4-6 hours per helmet wax...then another week or so grinding and polishing the metal helmet. Given that I would have made ABSOLUTELY NO profit on anything, it became hard to reconcile the project. And in any event, all I wanted from the project was a metal helmet myself..so I figured if I could get everyone in (40 or so people), the slightly profit~if it can be called that~ would ONLY pay for MY helmet...not worth the time when you consider that I would be working on the damn helmets for 40weeks out of a 52 week year!!!

Sound kinda selfish, but I really had other things I needed to be doing...I just hope everyone realizes that.

H

[Helmschmied]

this being said...I just had an idea....

...what if we had the helmet machined?????

Spun helm..and machined out sides...thoughts you machinists.

[Mandalorian]

Thank you for posting an armor update thread. M. :smokin:

pub2.ezboard.com/fswvstitanicfrm21.showMessage?topicID=4484.topic (http://pub2.ezboard.com/fswvstitanicfrm21.showMessage?topicID=4484.topic)

[Lucasberg]

First of all please do not "hey you" us. "Need machinist help" or
something like that would do. Thank you.

How much money do you have???? What you are asking is mucho mucho
bucks. I would not even pursue it.

To answer your question though, yes, it could be done.

[Helmschmied]

kinda touchy eh Lucasberg? I dont get your beef, but thanks for the info. BTW, when you say mucho dinero...how mucho is mucho? Casting was insanely expensive...care to compare?
H

[Lucasberg]

Sorry about that, was in a mood.

I don't know about spinning but I was always under the impression that
it was only done with thin things. To CNC a helmet you would need a billet
to get all the contours cut to depth. To machine a helmet out of a billet
a program would have to be made by what is called "Digitizing" which is where
a probe is hooked up to the spindle of the CNC mill and it methodically "bumps"
against the model of the helmet in equally spaced locations. The closer the
spacing the more fine the program. This is a very long and expensive process
and you haven't even made anything yet.

When one is finally milled it is done with a ball nosed endmill that will leave
ridges on the surface. (The more fine the program the more expensive the
machining) Then the surface will have to be smoothed out.

There is also the price of a piece of metal big enough to machine the helmet from.

If I had a gun pointed to my head and had to make a guess on cost, hmmmm....

Digitizing - $500
set up machining 1 piece - $500-$1,000
Billet cold rolled steel (for comparison) 50 cents a pound times the weight
of a block X x X inches (a little larger than the size of helmet)
Billet aluminum SIGNIFICANTLY more per pound.

These are all extreme guesses. Could be more, could be less. Will be very expensive.

[atlantictrooper]

i recently had some cnc work done for a prop maker . It was made from aluminum. He sent me the dimensions and I had our design dept do a 3D model of the image. Then it was programmed into the cnc and the computer did the rest! By the way, it was very expensive for materials and If I had to pay for the CNC time, you would be looking at thousands....not to mention the cost of the design dept to make it 3D. In my case, the project was worth it. We made a trade that fulfilled a lifelong dream of mine. So I sucked up to the design dept and CNC dept and the welding dept and spent some money for materials to work a deal that I never would have been able to pay for. Mandalorian helmet?..............hmmm.

[forttusken]

I think this could be done with a spun top and sheet metal with machined side pieces. I was thinking about making mine by dishing out the top in two parts and welding it all together just like a regular medieval helmet is made today. I was actually hoping to find a AL dome that was the right size at a scrap yard. I don't think machining anything but the side detail pieces makes sense though. The main structure needs to be sheetmetal.

I don't know why you think you would need to do all the metal cleanup work if the helmets were casted. Most here can use a file or dremel tool and if not they could pay someone to do it.

[Helmschmied]

Forttusken

Yeah I agree..spun might be a good idea...but the helmet and hence the rest of the helmet is not round per se.

I think if we could get the side pieces machined, we would be off to a good start.

Now, my original idea, is to get a spun helmet, which would be completely round and a bit bigger than the original size...this way, a machine might be able to eat away the rest, leaving the egg shape at the top, and cut out the T shape in front.

The biggest problem with aluminum is welding it...its not easy to get the alloys right, and much harder to get a consistent non-pitted weld line. If painting the helmet, one could simply use putty I suppose.

The most ideal idea is simply to have the basic helmet shape and side pieces separately cast in aluminum, than machined out to achieve the crisp look...trying to manually clean and polish (even if painting) a helmet that has been cast is a nightmare...which is one of the reasons I backed out...I want a life, lol.

HELM

[Lord of all that is Fett]

Helm, I've got the equipment and ability at my disposal to machine one.And it is still completely immpractical to do. Be better off using a combination of stamped and cast parts. Stamp the upper portion of the dome. Then, stamp out the sides and back out of one sheet and form it around the dome. Use cast parts for the T, ears, back vent, and scope. You would be better off having a machinist make the molds and dies.The Helmet like the armor has a worn soft edge look, machined edges are symmetrical and hard. -Mark

[Lucasberg]

Lord, that is what files are for. ;)

[Lord of all that is Fett]

No, actually I would use a die grinder. Take too damn long to file.-Mark

[Helmschmied]

LOATIF,
yeah I would want the edges crisp...its easy to file down the edges.

I think the ideal machined parts would be the sides applieques, the scope etc..I dont think stamping would give the right look since the sides are pretty sharp, just paint scuffed.

Again, what we need to do is find a casting house that likes working SMALL RUN projects...get them to cast the basic helmet shell for between 300-500 and then either machine the rest out to clean it...then get the appliques machined out and apply.

Believe me, cast aluminum is pretty rough...not the type of work Id want to send off to the typical fella on the board as theyd have no idea what and how to clean it up with...nor the tools. Hence machining the cast helmets visor, rear slots etc is ideal....for reference, Lazlo is doing this approach with the MPP shrouds/emitters cast in aluminum...hey, maybe we could talk to him.
Helm

[Lord of all that is Fett]

There is another thread going on concurrently about the original helmet construction. As well as how to reproduce it if it were vaccuformed. I would break it into the same components as a vaccuformed helmet would be but, just make it out of a combination of stampings and machined/cast parts. Is this any clearer than what I said above? Your overall material costs would be way down, compared to billet blocks. And the items with the sharpest edges would be the machined or cast items not the stamped.-Mark