Non-CC ***FIRING*** Logan's Run Flame guns - NOW WITH PICS!!

[Razmeister]

Friends and Logan's Run fans!

Mark W., creator of the popular "MARK IV" Han Solo Blaster, has designed a flame firing all-metal Logan's Run Sandman flame gun (or "deep sleep" blaster) that does not require the extremely dangerous and volatile pyrotechnic chemicals calcium carbide and acetylene, and that will sell for a 1/4 of what those complex and unsafe guns cost.

Here is Mark's description of the flame gun:

I'm doing a special Logan's Run Flame Gun... Instead of the potentially dangerous acetylene gas under pressure, leaking valve problem - and whatever the client does with it after it's delivered to them (potential lawsuits...) I've decided to do a single shot version of the gun. It will have the fire blast out the suppressor, but it will be magicians Flash Cotton/Paper that will create the effect, not the dangerous gas. While a normal gas working Flame gun is $750.00 and up, this single shot, safer Flame Gun will be $250.00 + $20.00 for shipping and will come with a supply of Flash Cotton/Paper w/complete instructions. All the tubing aspects of the gun will be machined aluminum, the grip area cast resin. It will be extremely accurate, and the movie or TV versions will be available, no difference in cost. Here is a schematic showing the differences between the two versions:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gjr1138Photos/files/MW%20Flamegun/Comparison1.jpg

For comparison, here's a pic of the hero film version:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gjr1138Photos/files/MW%20Flamegun/SandmanMovieversion2.jpg

and a pic of a hero TV version:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gjr1138Photos/files/MW%20Flamegun/TVgun.jpg

The Flash is available in colors - the movie was actually a green flame, not blue... green is an available color. No sound chip is needed, when the stuff ignites, that gives you the proper sound. The stuff will actually be packed in a tube that will shoot it out into the interior of the Flash Suppressor where it will continue to ignite - it's a great effect - single shot, but soooooo much safer and makes liability almost non-existant. And it makes the prop extremely affordable. I'd like to somehow film the gun igniting and having that small movie made into an MPEG file so you can post it and have it downloadable so people can see exactly what they're getting - I'll have to look into how to do that...

If you'd like to pass this on and take up the project, that would be great. I've already started a run of a dozen, so they can be available within a couple of weeks.

There you have it, people. If you're interested, please post here AND e-mail me privately with the words "Flame Gun" in the header, and I will provide payment instructions. There is no cutoff point or deadline. I am not - repeat - NOT getting a commission from any payments. Mark does all his machining on CNC milling machines and lathes in house - none of the parts are farmed out to outside vendors, so the results are consistent, accurate, and free of manual machining defects and quality concerns. Mark is well-established in the fabrication of this prop gun, and has even improved the function and safety of J.J. Lastik calcium carbide firing flame guns. Mark has made aftermarket parts for Colt Firearms, has been a talented machinist and gunsmith for his entire professional life, and is an extremely respected artisan in the Star Wars prop replica community. I vouch for him 100% and so will his satisfied "MARK IV" customers.

Display cases and plaques are currently available from Masterpiece Replicas (Toby), but I will have Toby fashion a new plaque especially designed for this groundbreaking replica.

Thanks for your attention and interest,

Guy

[dangeruss66]

I am very interested and would love to see pictures and an .mpg or .avi of this in action! I could help with the movie if needed, I have a new digital camera that also takes .mpg's.

I've contacted another person who was making an all metal with the strobe and heard back from him once. I emailed him a month later, and still have not heard back from him after 2 weeks. He was highly recomended by a very respectec board member too.

Please post more info as you receive it. Thanks!

Russell

[moffeaton]

Guy - I just emaied you about doing a video... here's an example I did for an R2 builder:
Go here and click on the "artoo film" link:
www.moffeaton.com (http://www.moffeaton.com)

Take care, Jason

[RYLO]

Perhaps this will help you out:
Here's an Mpeg of one by a different maker that was offered over a year and a half ago.I wouldn't exactly call it a ground breaking design since it's already been done but For those who are interested in your replica I would assume the Mpeg listed below will give them some idea of what to expect.
www.geocities.com/propworks/Mvc-453v.mpg (http://www.geocities.com/propworks/Mvc-453v.mpg)
NOTE: You'll have to copy and paste the link in your browser bar thanks to geocities not wanting to link to boards and such.

Again:We no longer off this item and I'm familiar with Marks work.He offers a fine product.I'm sure you'll be pleased should you decide to go with this version.

[Jedi Lawja]

Thanks, but I already have a solid-aluminum flash-cotton firing DS gun. <G> Thanks John!

Jay

[maldoman]

Guy, can you tell us how long the "blast" lasts with MW's version? With the CC gun a single blast could go 2-3 seconds.

Toby

[gojira61]

Guy,

I'll email you.

Jim

[Razmeister]

All good questions - awaiting Mark's reply. If Ry's mpeg is of a cotton firing gun, then my guess is that's what you should expect, unless Mark packs in more in his tubes. I'll let you know.

Thanks for the response so far! :)

Guy

[TK648]

Gojira
going to buy something to terrorize the dog again... :rollin:


TK648

[gojira61]

TK648 Wrote:

<<Gojira
going to buy something to terrorize the dog again...>>

My dog LOVES the stuff I buy! Really....no I mean it.....really......anyone know a good dog psychologist?

Jim

[Razmeister]

Grrr!

Down, boys! :)

Here are Mark's replies to the posted questions:

On the differences between the TV and movie flame guns:

The grips were different, and the fin underneath the Suppressor was a different shape - those are the main differences. I'll try to get a drawing showing the 2 versions so you can post it...

On the duration of the flame burst:

If you watch the film and actually time the flame burst, it's only 1/2 to 3/4 second long - not 2-3 seconds. The flash paper effect will match this fine. It should be noted that the proper green color is NOT available on the CC version - the additive that turns the flame green eventually gunks up the gun or can damage it - so it is not recommended that you make a green flame which means you get a red/orange flame only - so you actually get a more accurate replica with the Flash Paper version of the gun...

To remind readers - payments ARE beign accepted for the first run, so the sooner you sign on, the sooner you'll git yor gun! :)

Any questions?

Guy

[lanboy]

I purchase one of the metal DS guns with the flash that were brokered by Rylo approximately eight months ago; we had an extremely difficult time convincing the cretinous gentlemen responsible for Customs searches at the Canadian border that the gun didn't violate any firearms ordinances. Can you ship these into Canada?

[Razmeister]

Mark has shipped replicas based on found firearms (Mausers, etc.) to Canada, Japan, and probably a few other countries without incident, but I understand where you're coming from.

With customs it's always a crap shoot. An agent may have an inspection quota he needs to meet or he may have been chewed out by his super and will take it out on a package. Then again, you might get an agent who's a big fan, and sail it through. We even had one who wrote a letter to Mark requesting one for himself... :) But like I said, until now, despite some frustrating delays, none of Mark's replicas have been seized, returned, or lost in shipment.

In any event, each foreign shipment will include a letter in bold type stating under no uncertain terms that this is a collectible movie memorabellia, non-firing replica based on a sci-fi movie prop that cannot be converted to fire live ammunition.

Guy

[Darth Infamous]

Hi Raz,
Im interested. Email sent. :)

[Razmeister]

Thanks!

I just noticed that almost all of us have "Save GF" banners in our sigs.

This should give GF a warm, fuzzy feeling, so I hope he's reading this!

:)

Guy

[mgoob]

I'm interested.

Will Mark be making this replica w/o the option of firing, which would mean the replica would cost even less? Don't get me wrong, the price is right for this prop, in metal no less, but if it can be had for less w/o the effect, I'd opt for that. (that way I could purchase his prop and the others I want to, like the BR badge:)

[Razmeister]

That's certainly a possibility, and Mark has proven flexible before. :)

I'll ask him if he wouldn't mind making a "stunt" version. It could mean more interest.

Stay tuned,

Guy

[mgoob]

Will there be a belt hook for these? No one that I know of has ever made the belt hook to hold the Deep Sleep gun. Since he is machining the whole thing, perhaps he could machine a belt hook/ clip that would go through any belt (2 U-shaped pieces behind the belt hool/clip).

I would want to wear it now and again, and I know of at least one other person on this board who has recently posted about a Logan's Run Sandman costume. Ask Mark and see what he thinks.

[Razmeister]

Mike,

Actually, PtByNmbrs made a short run of cool replica Sandman belts and metal holster clips (I have a set - may sell, but have to move to my new place first and unpack them, so ask me again in two months).

I doubt Mark will want to even touch this, because he would probably be opposed to any scheme whereby this expensive replica could be damaged if the clip or belt fail to hold it in place and it dropped. Still, I'll ask, but I'm sure other members could step up to the plate and make you one - all it is is bent sheet metal. :)

Here's Mark's reply to the previous question:

<< The 'dummy'version isn't going to happen - technically the Flash Paper gun is the dummy gun. So much stuff has to be made in metal to make a nice replica, that it's no big deal to add a battery, switch some wires and a glowplug (and therefore minimal difference in cost) - the rest of the effect
is packing in the right ratio of Flash Cotton & Paper, and the owner of the gun does that. I hope things were clear that the whole top length of the gun is metal. The handle, trigger & grips will be resin. There will be a fake glowplug on the suppressor - the gun will look just like it's suposed too - but will not have the wire & banana clip sticking out of the grip - that just looks bad. One grip will come off to access the 'C' cell battery for the real Glowplug inside the gun.

I'll try to have those drawings & some Pics available soon. >>

More to come...

Guy

[Razmeister]

About the holster clip, Mark replied:

<< Personally I think it's a bad idea - to wear an expensive prop the way they did, is asking for it to fall off & dent or break. I actually have all the info on the movie used belt hook - all the dimensions. It's not as easy as it sounds, and it was big around 3" tall & wide at the top with a riveted belt hook on the back. And for it to be strong enough to hold the gun, it has to be bent by someone with the machinery to do it - I do not have that. You would also have to line the inside of the holster with felt to keep it from scratching the paint off the metal holster attach, or have those parts annodized which makes the cost go up... If someone really wants one, it will be $50.00 for the holster - that should cover annodizing and paying a shop to do the bending... >>

I don't know about you guys, but I'll be getting one for my flame gun collection! :) Anybody else who's expressed interest or is sending payment, feel free to add this amount for a clip if you desire one.

Guy

[TK648]

Here are some links to a Logans Run site I found
there are some great pictures of the gun broken down
into parts and some pics of the gun firing
www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/5357/collect.htm (http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/5357/collect.htm)
Good pics of a firing gun at this link
www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/5357/fans.htm (http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/5357/fans.htm)

Andrew
TK648

[Kerr Avon]

I'm interested in one, but what is Mark's email? And what is the approximate completion date expected?

[Razmeister]

I'm Mark's point of contact for all correspondence and transactions. You can e-mail me at gjr1138@aol.com for payment instructions.

Mark is running the parts as we speak, and the first 12 flame guns should be ready to ship in approximately 2 weeks. Holster belt clips will ship a little later.

Pics and drawings will be posted over the weekend.

Thanks for the interest! :)

Guy

[outlander]

Guy:

Please eMail me with relevant info.

JAS

[Razmeister]

At the risk of being banned...

Jeff, e-mail sent! :)

Guy

[Reaper57]

ok... thanks jay.
yeah , i fired mine at the office today. the guys there loved it. i want some pics of yours. photopoint is still down i guess. i may still make a couple more. actually the belt clip would work fine and hold tight if a thumb type release could be added. a piece added to the top to move ove the tab on the gun. your thumb could push it to the left to realese it.
john :smokin:

[maldoman]

Guy, email me too. Plus I need to ask some questions about some stuff from a few week ago.

Toby

[Razmeister]

I'm getting LOTS of private inquiries everybody - thanks!

I spoke with Mark tonight on the phone, and we went over some more details of the project:

* All the aluminum parts wil be black anodized, not painted, so cleanup will be easier and finish won't be damaged by function - no change in price.

* Mark will forward me close-up picks of the hero flame guns used in the movie and the TV series, and I'll post them side by side for comparison with an itemized list of differences (feel free to post your knowledge of the differences and you own screen shots or photo scans - but not of other replicas, please)

* Flash cotton is cheap and widely available in many colors at magician and novelty shops, and on the Net - the instructions will list several venues, as well as cleaning and care of the gun. The brass flash tube never wears out - you can stuff it hundreds of times for a full, bright flash every time.

* Minimum deposits of $75 are acceptable - guns will ship when the balance is paid

* Display solutions are the responsibility of the customer, but I'll work with Toby to design plaques specifically for this piece

* Instructions will have emphasis on safety for both the user and bystanders

More to come! :)

Guy

[Razmeister]

To answer one member's questions on how the gun works, Mark wrote:

<< A glowplug is mounted in back of a 3/8" dia tube. This tube is in the back of the Suppressor and inside the main body of the gun. The flash paper/cotton is packed in this tube, when you pull the trigger you give power to the glowplug from a 1.5V "C" cell battery in the handle. The paper/cotton ignites, blows out into the Suppressor and finishes burning and there's the Flame Effect. One of the grips will come off to access the battery for changing. Glowplugs last a LONG time used this way, but the whole handle can be removed (it's screwed onto the upper tube body) and then you can access the glowplug - unscrew it and put in another. Glowplugs are $4.00 ea. >>

And last night Mark wrote me:

<< There's no way to match the flame effect in the gun without the gas being used - that's more dangerous, and too much liability. I know from a friend that the tube can be packed in such a way that a fireball can be created that shoots out 8-10 feet, with this in mind one should be able to come up with the proper ratio that ignites, shoots into the Suppressor and finishes it's burn there - It's still a nice green flame, but the 4 tongues of flame that the gas version makes will not be matched - it's two different substances at work, and they burn differently - It is a stepped down version of the gun - a flame effect, but not an exact match - single shot, not multiple - but for those differences the cost is 2/3's less than the CC version - this is the trade off, and it is priced accordingly. It's still an accurate, clean replica, and it's better that a flash bulb going off in the barrel... I hope to have one tested by tomorrow - I'm getting the Green Flash Paper today. >>

I think this pretty much covers everything there is to know about this replica. Photos soon to come - Mark is hurrying to finish the prototype.

Guy

[Kerr Avon]

Any update on when the prototype pictures will come?

[Razmeister]

Mark sent me a photo of some of the parts to post, but it was against a bad background and not all the parts were there. I wasn't impressed with it, so I rejected it. I should get better pics by the weekend.

Thanks for the reminder. :)

Guy

[gojira61]

"Bump"

[Imahomer]

I'm VERY interested. Please add my name to the list.
Mike

[Spheric Thor]

Guy,

Have you gotten any new pictures of the gun yet?

Chris

[Razmeister]

Mark is backed up a bit with more daytime work than he expected, so the CNC machines are tied up most of the time. The parts are almost done, however, and I told him that there was no point to taking pics until he had all the parts. Sorry for the delay, guys - as soon as the parts are done, anodizing and assembly is all that's left to do.

Here are the first round of pics:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gjr1138Photos/files/MW%20Flamegun/Flamegunparts2s.jpg

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gjr1138Photos/files/MW%20Flamegun/AlumParts_s.jpg

Those who've already sent payment will be the first to receive their flameguns.

Thanks,
Guy

[Imahomer]

Hey Guy....
So far so good. I'm assuming you've received my money and I'm in the top twelve?
Mike

[Kerr Avon]

Is there still a slot to get in on the first 12 run? I'd really like this, but if I can't get in on the first run I don't want to put a deposit down yet.

[Spheric Thor]

The parts look great.

Chris

[TOKI]

Raz/Mark-

So far the parts are looking great. I have a CC firing gun which is absolutely beautiful, (one of a kind) and these parts make me want a second. One point I'd like to mention about the schematics: I beleive that on the TV version the on/off switch for the glow plug was moved to the rear of the handle.

Also, I would be very interested in the belt clip.

Arthur

[Razmeister]

Thanks for the comments, guys!

I picked up your payment yesterday, Mike, thanks (meant to e-mail you, sorry). Most of those who've expressed interest have been patiently and understandably waiting for pics. No-one is expected to pay for anything sight-unseen. I hope any hesitation or doubt have now been eliminated.

There are currently 8 more slots in this run, and if we exceed that number, Mark will simply run more parts. The wait will just be longer.

I'll be posting more pics as they become available.

If anyone wants to get in, please e-mail me for payment instructions. Good-will deposits are also being accepted to secure an order.

Guy

[Razmeister]

Here is Mark's reply regarding the location of the switch on the back of the flamegun grip in the TV Series:

<< Guy,

The TV version does have a momentary push button at the back of the grip - this was done for safety purposes as the toggle switch up front caught on the movie holster and the actor torched his leg... From a design standpoint, it's ugly and I had just planned on usng the Toggle switch on both... If someone really doesn't want that, I can put on the other switch - but the need to remember that that switch is gonna be poking them in the hand every time they hold it...

Mark >>

Since this metal single-shot firing flamegun will NOT be using calcium carbide or a similarly dangerous volatile substance, the location of the switch does not matter.

Thanks to those who brought up the question! I hope Mark's answer is satisfactory. :)

Guy

[gojira61]

Guy,

You've got mail!

Jim

[Razmeister]

Another wise and discerning collector who is going to be the proud and happy owner of Mark's new flamegun... :)

More progress pics to be posted very shortly!

Guy

[Razmeister]

At Mark's request, I'm posting the following note:

<< Flame Gun Fans:

After a conversation with Guy concerning the various methods that have been used in making replica Flame Guns, we discovered that a detailed description of my methods/materials should be posted so as to let you know exactly what you are ordering. Here is a quote from the first posting offering the Magicians Flash Paper version of the Flame Gun:

"All the tubing aspects of the gun will be machined aluminum, the grip area cast resin."

I should mention here that most Calcium Carbide Flame Guns cost around $900.00 based on the few people I know who have made or make them. To keep my cost down to $250.00 I made the design decision to have "All the tubing aspects of the gun will be machined aluminum..." This gives strength to the design as well as a nice weight to the replica. "...the grip area cast resin." This means that the grip area or handle/frame of the gun will have an accurate master made, be molded and castings made in Black Resin. The two grips on the each side of the gun will also be cast Black Resin. The two side Plates will be out of 3/16" black plastic attached with metal counter-sink screws (The original plates were phenolic - FYI). This gives an accurate replica, keeps the cost down to almost 70% less than a Calcium Carbide Gun. And, unlike an all Resin Replica with a light bulb in it for almost the same money I'm charging for my Metal/Resin hybrid, my gun actually gives you a real Flame effect in the Flash Suppressor.

I love the Flame Gun design, and as a propmaker I love creating an accurate, well done replica at a price that makes it available for most fans. I wanted to share this information to those of you who are interested in my Flame Gun Replica.

Mark W. >>

Here's a pic of the master patterns for the grip frame and left and right grips (TV version):

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/razmeisterpics/files/MW%20Flamegun/Parts.jpg

About production status, Mark had this to add:

<< all of the metal work is now done. Just need to get them balck anodized, the Handle & Grips molded, and wire everything up... >>

This will be a "last call" to anyone interested in acquiring one of these beauties. Only a few spots are left, and I'd prefer to find customers here before any spares go up for sale on eBay.

Guy

[Razmeister]

New pic:

Production fin (TV version) test fit to production flamegun parts.

All the aluminum parts will be black anodized before assembly.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gjr1138Photos/files/MW%20Flamegun/Finshot_s.jpg

From Mark's e-mail:

<< The 'Fin' underneath the Suppressor of the gun is made from alum. too - drilled & tapped in 2 places to actually screw mount to the Suppressor - very strong and clean looking (the originals had 2 spot welds on each side of the Fin/Suppressor... UGLY!) I'm getting the Annodizing done next week so hopefully by end of the that week I can finally get the film done for all to see... >>

More to come... Still a few open slots left! :)

Guy

[DARTH TYRANUS 7]

What happen to the picture's???


Tyranus.

[gojira61]

Pics are not working......

Jim

[Duke Chad]

Guy,

Is there something wrong with your Yahoo site hosting the pics? Like others that just posted, I have noticed your personal pic and all pics you have posted from your Yahoo site do not come up.

And I had a link to your prop pics in my book mark, now it says...

"Sorry, this group is available to members ONLY.
You are not allowed to access this group."

Do I have to be a Yahoo member?

[Razmeister]

ALL PICS ARE FIXED! :)

Production update:

All the aluminum parts have gone to the annodizer. Mark is currently running the resin and plastic parts and assembling the guts.

More progress shots coming shortly...

Guy

[JHUSEL2]

That looks sweet!! What would the cost be for a non-working version? I don't really care if it works, but love the metal barrel for this thing. Any thoughts??

jhusel

[Razmeister]

jhusel,

Other than the trigger, there are no moving parts, so if you don't purchase magician's flash paper and fight temptation to "squeeze one off," I suppose it would be non-functional. ;) The "functional" parts add very little cost to the replica.

In any event, just like I noted on the top of the thread, the price will be the same: $270 shipped. There are a handful left, so if you want in, now's the perfect time. Shipment will begin as soon as Mark assembles and test-fires the buildups.

E-mail me for more info if you're interested. :)

Guy

[Razmeister]

Like the subject line says, there are only four open spots left.

All the metal parts have been annodized and I should get pics in a day or two.

We're near the home stretch, and I'd like to thank everybody for their patience. :)

More great pics to appear here soon.

Guy

[Spheric Thor]

In the wake of Guy being banned I volunteered to keep this thread updated when necessary. Guy ask me to post the following for him.

"Guy asked me to post that this project will continue as planned and he's authorized me to post updates and photos when appropriate. Guy does not want to see this prop's fans and customers suffer because of the mods and admins' decision. If anybody still wants to inquire about a flame gun replica while there are still open spots available, please e-mail him at gjr1138@aol.com."

Chris

[Spheric Thor]

Here is the lastest update:

Guy received this update from Mark this morning:

<< I have both versions of the Grips for the Flame Gun about 75% done now.
About 75% done on the Frame of the Gun too. Picked up all the Glow Plugs,
Toggle Switches & Batteries needed for the run yesterday. >>

Photos to follow soon! There are 4 spots left if anyone is still interested.


Chris

Edit: Bumping from page 14

[jhyphen]

Why not just start a new thread on the other board and let people go there?

[Spheric Thor]

Because not everyone is going over to the other forum and I told Guy that I would keep this thread around until the project is finished.

Chris

[micdavis]

Can we get a photo or mpg of the gun firing?

[Spheric Thor]

OK, here is the latest info from Mark:

<< I've got the Movie Grips totally done and ready for molding - they're painted a metallic gold so I can see any imperfections, and the metal in the paint makes for a nice surface to mold off of - If you think a Pic of that will help, here it is. I still have the Gun Frame under construction, and the TV grips are about 3/4 done...

This whole week is nothing but finishing the Flame Gun & getting it molded.

Mark >>

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gjr1138Photos/files/MW%20Flamegun/GoldGrips-Movie_s.jpg


Chris

[Spheric Thor]

Here is the latest pic of partially assembled anodized flamegun parts:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gjr1138Photos/files/MW%20Flamegun/bunchoguns.jpg

All slots have been filled for this run. If you would like to be put on an interested list for a possible second run email:
gjr1138@aol.com for more info.

Thanks,

Chris

[micdavis]

I'd be interested if I culd see what it looks like firing.

[Kerr Avon]

Those last four slots suddenly filled up? Allright.. whose buying in bulk now? :P

Well if any slots open back up, I'm interested.. I just wanted to see how they'd look when finished before committing to pay money.

[Spheric Thor]

For future updates head on over to this thread:

pub90.ezboard.com/fthepro...ID=6.topic (http://pub90.ezboard.com/ftheproploverscommunityfrm1.showMessage?topicID=6. topic)




Chris