How to build a Man in Carbon box prop

[Randy5000]

No, I am asking if anyone knows the best way to make the box that I will put my man in carbonite onto/into when it arrives? I was thinking of a crude "wood" frame, and the prop would just go on top of it nicely, then spray painting it all the Gun-Metal gray would look nice. Then getting the panels to go onto the side...could look nice. OR it could look crappy.

Im not a pro at this, and Im sure someone can make a better case for the man in carbonite, but any suggestions as to what you might do for a case -?

[xwing15]

I would go for the crude wood frame, then go out and buy a whole @#%$ load of styrene, and skin the wood with that. File/sand down the corners, and then stick it on. And use pics for references....

[TServo4]

I'd say have like a ramp out of wood that you could prop it on at an angle. Padded, of course.

[droidboy]

Someone offered a beautiful set of blueprints on here a while back.

Gregg

[Natty15d]

The blueprints were put together by CKING.

Nathan

[cking]

Hi there,

Here is the blueprint that I prepared for this project. I've got a talented craftsman lined up to make mine but right now, the Postal Service are trying to locate a payment that I sent to someone for the casting. It's missing and I sent cash unfortunately, so I need to wait until they've found out what's happened to it before I send another payment. :(

Here's the blueprint:

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=876411&a=6376697&p=51285156&Sequence=0&res=high

Send me an email and I will send the full size version to you so that you can print it out and read all the measurements.

christopher.king2@virgin.net

Kind regards,

Chris.

[xwing15]

Hey Chris, is it just my eyes playing tricks on me or is the box (slightly) not perfectly rectangular in your blueprint? Just curious.

Cheers

[cking]

xwing15 - your eyes are not deceiving you!

The original frame is NOT rectangular. It's wider at the bottom than at the top. It's not just a case of making a rectangular box to stick the carbon casting into! It's not as straightforward as you would think!

Chris.

[xwing15]

Thanks Chris. I never knew that before. Good to see my eyes weren't deceiving me. Despite what people say about me, I'm not mad. Just insane. :lol:

[Helmschmied]

hey fellas....this is a project I wanted to get in on a while back...who is the party responsible for making the "man in a box"----and is it going to be lifesized???

somebody email me pretty please with info, details etc etc... Dominionwestreproductions@hotmail.com


[its funny, as I write this....Harrison Ford is talking on a commerical, lol!!]

[CorellianExports]

Cris,
Were your blueprints based off the original or a reproduction?
My spies tell me that the reproduction was "shorter" than the original prop.

Once the parts get shipped out for this prop, there will be a tutorial setup by Davethebookie and/or myself.
;)

I have also heard that "Bobadebt" has graciously offered his building skills for any one who would like a pre-made "box". ;)

[micdavis]

I'd be inetersted as well if it's still possible to get in on it.

I also have a cabinet shop at my disposal with CNC routing table. Might ba able to precision cut the parts for the box.

Email me. We'll talk.

[bobadebt]

I was going to build these boxes but micdavis has the right tools for the job.




micdavis: Email me your number so I can call you to explain some of the intricacies of this so we can figure out if your equipment can do it all.

[czjxm7]

Ooohhhh! Mic Davis, do tell!

[Randy5000]

I got my IC Man in Carbon today and it looks very nice. Of course it wont look good untill its painted the Gunmetal to look like actual movie-like Carbonite. and it wont look good until I make a box outa wood to place it on and get the 8 panels on each side.

I would interested in seeing who else makes the panels, as so far, the lest expensive I've seen is Vince who makes a $50 per panel Resin, non light up. and $100 or so per panel for metal ones and double those costs for light up panels...

These Man in Carbon can easily reach $1000 and higher..I wonder how much the REAL prop costs? Wasnt it like $10,000 or something like that?

[micdavis]

I went to a Modelmaker convention about ten years ago.

Part of the show included a tour of ILM. As we were being guided through the building. I turned a corner and BAM.

Bumped right in the carbonite block. No pictures were allow but I did examine it for ten minutes.

I be happy to try to make some of the box parts but would need somewhere to start.

That print would be cool whoever has it.

Also would need the sculpture.

Anybody see this one from IC? Can send me some close-ups.

[cking]

Hi everyone

Thanks for all the requests that I've received for my blueprints. I'm in the process of sending them out to everyone and hope to reply to all of your emails by tonight. To answer your question Vince, I took the measurements from my Illusive Originals version and if Illusive did make their version shorter than the original, it must only be by fractions of an inch. Until we get measurements from the actual prop, this is as close as it gets. (By the way, if you're basing your assumption on the measurements stated in the book "From Star Wars to Indiana Jones: Best of the Lucasfilm Archives" - don't. Those measurements are not accurate due to Lucasfilm not wanting people to know the exact sizes of the items. I have that on good authority) ;)

Kind regards,

Chris.

[GuntahKela]

I'm planning on buying large sheets of Styrofoam at the Home Depot, cutting them to size with a razor blade and coating them with Epoxy once or twice. Then I put the box together, finish it with some bondo, sanding and paint it. Movie studios do this for cheap and fast set designs. Very light to carry too.

[Helmschmied]

Hey CKing,

can you send them to me too...PLEEEEEEAASE...send em to Dominionwestreproductions2@hotmail.com

You know I love you snuckums ;)

Helm

[Helmschmied]

My idea is to make the box out of STEEL ...Im thinking Ill make a basic frame, then weld the panels on from the inside. I think Ill achieve a little depth of the holes by welding a 90degree steel lip on the inside...it outta look pretty cool.

I wont get around to this for at least several months..at least, lol.

H

[cking]

Hi everyone,

Here is the link to page2 of my prop replica photopoint album. You can select the full size blueprint in either millimetres or inches from this page. Just click on the photo and display it at full size then right click on your mouse button and "save as" to wherever you want to store it. It's 300dpi and should be printed out at 7x5 inches. It's 500kb so takes a while to send, so I'm trying to avoid having to send too many messages out! Here's the link:

albums.photopoint.com/j/A...376697&f=0 (http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=876411&a=6376697&f=0)

Kind regards,

Chris.

[Helmschmied]

I was thinking it would be a great idea to post pix of the original...anybody got tons?
H

[CorellianExports]

I've got a bunch in my photopoint album. I've got far more on disk, I just haven't taken the time to load them into photopoint. QuinonVos has a whole collection available as well.

Here's my photopoint album link, it includes photos of my prototype panel:

albums.photopoint.com/j/A...a=10878859 (http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=894286&a=10878859)

[micdavis]

Okay, I've gotten some info from a few folks and this looks very do-able.

I am thinking 1/4" acrylic supported by a wood frame (althought the acrylic alone might be enough). This eliminates the need to fill and sand or skin them. Maybe some corner blocks only for strength and a place to screw the back on.

More material cost but less finish work. I hate sanding.

Also with only 10mm radii on the front/top edge that could be routed in after assembly. Plus I see routing in a step in the front frame to drop the sculpture into for blending and smoothing. Or is there supposed to be a step there?

The control boxes I've seen here look great to me as well.

I would really like to get this as close as possible so any supporting info on the actual unit would really rock.

But where do I get "the man"?

I'm getting fired up about this.

[cking]

Hi MicDavis,

I've just emailed the AutoCAD drawing to you as wel as a long message! It sounds like you've got the skill and equipment to do this. I know that bobadebt has looked into the viability of constructing one of these already so it may help if you two put your heads together and came up with a way to offer these to the guys on the forum that have the man in Carbon but no frame to stick him in!

Kind regards,

Chris.

[Randy5000]

That would be me...got a man and no box to stick him into.If you email me, I could gladly tell you where I picked mine up from..$325 + shipping - looks nice.

[micdavis]

FYI,

There seem to be plenty of interest in this.

However most likely this is going to be a case of I'll cut the part & ship them but you'll have to assemble it. So you will have to at least be able to glue, use a basic router, sand and paint.

I am still not super happy with the dimensions I've gotten so far because they came from the licensed unit.

I have heard it was short.

NOW would be the time to email me anything you have that you KNOW is true about this unit.

thecaptain@mixed-media.net

The decision to make them has not been made yet. I will post to this thread when it is.

Michael Davis

[cking]

Hi micdavis,

I want to point one VERY important thing out here. Regardless of whether the actual prop was bigger, the fact is that the main in Carbon castings that will need to fit into the frame originated from the Illusive version. If you alter the dimensions, you are going to end up with a larger border around the casting. The measurements that I took for the box were taken from the very edges of the Carbon casting where the rough details meet the smooth area of the surrounding frame. If any measurements are altered from my blueprint, the border will end up looking too wide. Does any of this make sense?

Chris.

[CorellianExports]

Chris,
Good point. However, if the box is too short, originally, then all we would need to do (with a taller box) would be to move the statuetee "feet" a little bit more toward the bottom to make the adjustment....especially if we're only takling about a couple of centimeters...or inches. ;)

[cking]

Hi Vince,

I don't understand why this needs to be taller. My blueprints are based on the Illusive version which looks very accurate to me. I would not feel happy knowing that my box was made taller based on a suspicion. Until someone actually measures the prop or takes a side-by-side comparison photo, my vote would be to leave it as it is.

Chris.

[czjxm7]

I vote for the as-is also.

Unless we can get measurements for the original, this should do.

Wasn't the IC Han molded off of the original anyway? It should be dead on, unless you can't discount the sloppy craftsmanship.

[micdavis]

I totally agree.

IF I can't come up with something that is verifible as accurate. Which does not seem likely since no one is responding with any kind of better info.

I would go with what cking gave me.

Either way I am going to cut some test pieces next week when our CNC expert returns from vacation (holiday;) ).

I am also not really impressed with the "man" from IC.

Yesterday I compared it with a photo from the Magic of the Myth museum display and it was not real encouraging.

The photo's I got off the IC web site weren't very good either. I am going to see if IC will send me some better pictures.

Later

[cking]

Hi Micdavis,

I can tell you that IC managed to get a VERY low numbered Carbonite replica. That means that their "man" is going to be about as good as you will find because it was made from the molds before they started to wear out and become less detailed. What is it about the piece that doesn't impress you?

I've heard from a couple of people that have seen these first hand and they are both anal when it comes to quality and accuracy. Both of them said it was superb and extremely well made.

Kind regards,

Chris.

[czjxm7]

Images of mine were just mailed, Jon.

[micdavis]

Thanks Jon,

Those pics make it look better than the website did.

I was under the impression this was something somebody re-sculpted. I guess I was wrong.

How do the people interested in this feel about assembling them yourselves. It would be cheaper to ship them and in general plus I'm not really that interested in "making" them.

[Randy5000]

I would rather build it myself if someone told me a good way to do it..I mean, I can visualize me buying wood and having it cut and nailed to the exact dimensions, but my creativeness stops there..."ok, now what do I do to make it look really cool?" - I think there has to be a better solution that buying plain ole wood, but it has to be an inexpensive way to make this box and still be able to be proud of it.

I think if someone makes them, plus adding in shipping, your
talking several hundred dollars at least...and I dont think many peoples budgets would warrent it...but if someone has a good solution on how to build a nice looking box, share it with all.

[Natty15d]

Is this of any use?

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1354346&a=13001279&p=49020033

Nathan

[Cerney1]

Mic,

Im VERY interested in this.... keep me posted!!
Add me to your email list!!

[micdavis]

Hey Folks,

I spent a little time looking over some images given to me.

Here are the results.

www.cdsandiego.com/carbonman (http://www.cdsandiego.com/carbonman)

Later

Michael

[cking]

Hi micdavis,

Thanks for putting that webpage together. I disagree with your conclusion for the following reasons:

1. The photo that you have used of the actual prop is tilting backwards which is why the head appears to tilt back more.

2. There is NO doubt in my mind that the officially licensed Illusive Originals version is a direct cast from the original. I know this to be true because EVERY little depression, shape and drip that is around the Han Solo section is the same size, orientation, location relative to the photo of the original Solo casting.

3. The photo that you have used of the unpainted IC casting is not head-on so the perspective is distorted.

4. Due to the different perspective of the original photo compared to the head-on view of my blueprint, you cannot use the bottom of the frame to compare the sizes because the warped perspective will make the base of the original SEEM bigger. Therefore, if you overlay the original photo onto my blueprint, the blueprint is always going to be smaller. I took a head-on view of my Illusive Carbonite before I sold it. I will overlay it onto my frame blueprint so you can make a more favourable comparison.

Kind regards,

Chris.

[Natty15d]

Ive got to agree with Chris.
Im an Architectural Technician & do all of the Offices 3D visuals & one of the first things that i discovered is that the camera lens really distorts what ever youre taking a picture of.
I can take exact measurements of a structure, take a picture of it to apply the correct texture & then spend ages using Corel to stretch & compress the photo to make it fit the model.
If you look at the IC & the original Han youll see that its an exact match, all of the ripples, hands, feet etc match.

Nathan

[cking]

Hi everyone,

Thanks natty15d, it is quite amazing how the camera can distort these things.

Here is my comparison. This first photo is a head on shot of my Illusive Originals Carbonite. I have removed the frame in Photoshop and just left the Han Carbon casting. I removed the frame at the point where the messy Carbon flash meets the smooth border that surrounds it. This really shows that the sides DO taper!

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=876411&a=13721293&p=53803592&Sequence=0&res=high

Next up is the overlay that I have produced which shows the trimmed photo of my Illusive Originals superimposed onto my blueprint. It fits EXACTLY into the size of the hole that I have given on the blueprint. Careful trimming of the Han Carbon castings will be required to make sure the size of the casting matches the size of the hole in the frame that it needs to fit into.

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=876411&a=13721293&p=53803593&Sequence=0&res=high

micdavis - Believe me, I am anal too when it comes to the accuracy of my props. I have researched this prop for a LONG time and I have owned two of Illusive's officially licensed versions. I do not believe that the casting has shrunk as much as your current comparison shows because the size of Harrison's head has been human scale on both versions that I have owned. I know that there is always going to be a small amount of shrinkage when taking a mold from something, but it would not be noticeable. If the casting of Han was any smaller OR bigger, it would not look correct. I have invested a lot of money in my quest for a near perfect replica of this prop and I would not have published my blueprints if I did not believe in their portrayal of accurate measurements.

I hope this comparison gives you a bit more confidence and inspires you to proceed with the test of the frame fabrication because the resulting prop will be fantastic and I want one! :)

Kind regards,

Chris.

[Natty15d]

macdavis

If you look at the porportions of the han in carb you can see that theyre an exact match eg distance between the feet, distance between feet & knees etc.

Nathan

[CorellianExports]

Cking,
I have a inside contact who gave me the information on the extra height of the original prop.
He saw it close up. I don't wish to get him into trouble, so I can not go into the specifics of his background, nor how he got the information.
However, I am trying to get into touch with him and I'll pass on any new information I get.

Also, before I'm done with the panels, I'll scale up the original photo to get an exact measurement of the box.
So far, my panels are slightly "longer" that the IC versions. This occured when I scaled up the original prop "Hero " panel. I used the IC panel "height" or "width" as a starting point to scale up the photo.
I think I came up with some thing like 3/8" more in length, but I'd have to check and get back to you. This is why once I'd heard the original was taller, it seemed to confirm the difference in measurements I came up with! We know that the "depth" of the props should be ok, but it's the "height" we're concerned about. If this is true, then how I went about scaling up the panel photo using the IC panel as a starting point was very correct! :)

For those of you concerned that my panels won't fit inside the I.C. panel openings, have no fear. There is plenty of room inside those panel openings. My panels WILL fit, once I'm done with them ;)
I'll be posting new photos soon!

[micdavis]

I am moving forward with the tests.

In fact I got the CNC files today and will run them this weekend.

I have also talked with CorellianExports about the control boxes. So things are progressing.

Like I said what else is availible anyway?

How reliable is this guy in Florida?

Does he deliver when promised?

[CorellianExports]

Micdavis,
I still need to send you those photos. I haven't forgotten ;)
Just busy. I'll get on it. ;)

[TK725]

Cool stuff :-) Makes me want to get one someday

[cking]

Hi Vince,

While I appreciate your efforts, I must stress that any attempt to alter the height of the frame will result in the top or bottom (or both) surrounding borders being too wide. In my opinion, everything about the Illusive prop looks proportionally correct and I would not like to alter any of that for fear of unbalancing the proportions. If you've stood next to one of these things, you'll know that they're pretty imposing and I think that adding anything to the height would be a big mistake.

Kind regards,

Chris.

P.S. If the Illusive Solo casting is an exact match to the real prop (which I believe it is), then that means that the height of the Solo section is accurate. If the frame on the original prop is taller, how does that explain the widths of the border that surround the casting on the Illusive version looking identical to the real deal?

[TK139]

Hmmm. I may tackle this also, If I find the time.

[forttusken]

You guys rock! This is the kind of project I like to see on the forum where everybody is tackling a problem. If only I had the time space and money to build one of these also. So many projects, so little time!

[micdavis]

I added another page to the web site.

www.cdsandiego.com/carbonman/makeit.html (http://www.cdsandiego.com/carbonman/makeit.html)

Take a look.

Sorry, it's just too small. Isn't that always the case.:lol:

[cking]

*EDIT* micdavis, I've just looked at your new "makeitfit" photo. My blueprint is taller than the photo of the original prop in your comparison!!! That proves my point exactly - the photo of the original has the block tilting away from the camera. With this in mind, why have you concluded that the blueprint is too small when it is quite clearly BIGGER than the original on your comparison?

micdavis, Vince,

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this. Please humour me on something before being 100% sure on your conclusion.

If you have a digital camera, take a head on photo of a rectangular object with the focal point being somewhere in the center. Then, from the same distance, take another photo except this time, tilt the object away from the camera but still focus on the center of the object.

I guarantee, when you place these two photos side by side, the photo where the object has been tilted away from the camera will be SHORTER than the photo taken head on.

Try it. You'll see. This is EXACTLY what has happened to the photo of the original that you are trying to compare to the head on view shown on my blueprint.

There is no way that the Illusive Han Carbon casting is shorter than the original because every intricate detail that can be seen along the top and bottom edge of the casting, right at the point where it turns from detail to the smooth border, is the SAME!

It's interesting to note Don Bies comments that he sent to the R2 builders club. He states that Illusive took a plaster cast from ILM's mold, then molded that casting to make their mold. He also states that Illusive sculpted their own control panels. This is bad news for Vince because if he has used the depth of the Illusive "Hero" panel to calculate the scale factor required to blow up the reference photos to supposedly full size, his scale could be slightly wrong because nobody can confirm if the Illusive panels are the same length and depth as the originals. There is NO way of determining the actual size of those control panels unless someone measures the original. All we've got to go by is the control panel recess which is the same on the Illusive version as they are on the original. Having said that, as long as Vince's control panels fit into the recess and have the same relationship to the edges as his photos of the original prop, I will be happy.

I urge you to try the experiment that I've described above. It's all about perspective and camera angles. Hopefully, other people will try the experiment too and realize that I am not making this up!

Kind regards,

Chris.

[Natty15d]

I got to agree with Chris on this.
Its amazing how much a camera will distort something.
Try the little experiment & youll see.

[cking]

Hi micdavis,

Pictures speak a thousand words, so here you go:

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=876411&a=13721293&p=53846615&Sequence=0&res=high

Photo on the left is the actual prop TILTING BACKWARDS.
Photo on the right is the Illusive prop replica standing upright.

You can see that the Illusive prop replica APPEARS taller but this is only due to fact that it has been photographed standing upright.

It's interesting to note that this discussion started off with the comment about the Illusive prop replica being too short compared to the original, when in actual fact it now appears that it is too tall! If you overlay one on top of the other, you will see that the relative widths of the hands, feet, waist, head etc are the same in both shots. The widths of these things are not affected as much as the height because the original is tilting back, so it gives a slightly more squashed perspective from top to bottom.

I hope this concludes the question about the Illusive prop being shorter. It isn't. It's just the angle of the original photo.

Finally, I wanted to let you know that this is not about me wanting to prove that I am right, I am just anxious to let people know that the Illusive version is in fact very accurate (with the exception of the control panels).

Kind regards,

Chris.

[slaide1]

just one question for you guys....
Has anyone noticed that the chin, eyes, and mouth appear
to be a totally different person? How could this be a pull?

[cking]

slaide1,

There's one thing certain about this prop replica and that is the entire Solo casting is a perfect match for the original. The face is undoubtedly Harrison Ford. I've owned two of these plus I own a casting of just the face. I've collected a lot of reference material during the past 12 months for my Harrison Ford head sculpt project and there is absolutely no doubt that the face is authentic. It's just a trick of the light my friend.

Chris.

[slaide1]

Thanks for the reply....having not owned one of these and only the pics to go by to decide on if I want to do this project
I really appreciate how you people with actual first hand knowledge share your info.

[Helmschmied]

Yes, I tend to agree with Cking....having made a enough historical armor and studied zillions of photos of the same piece, Ive seen shots of the same helmet for example that, when compared to other shots, really distort the true length, width, etc etc of the original piece. One straight-on/mug shots or profile shots are ideal because the render the most accurate picture.

So, my question to you all is:

>>>>why doenst someone go to the current exhibits and get the actual measurements???

my two lincolns...hmm, does that make sense across the pond?

[cking]

Hi slaide1,

No problem. If micdavis can fabricate the parts for the frame, then my advice to you is to jump on this! With a Solo casting and micdavis's frame kit, you will have an outstanding prop replica that is ultimately even more impressive than the Illusive Originals version.

Helm - I agree. Can't someone get a head-on shot of the prop at Magic of Myth so that we can do a true side by side comparison?

Chris.

[cking]

Hi everyone,

Natty15d has just sent these couple of images to me. The first shows a side view of the model in his computer. It shows the position of camera 1 and 2 relative to the Carbonite.

Second shows the views that camera 1 and 2 are seeing in his computer model. As you can see, the lower camera position gives a shorter appearance to the Carbon frame. Of course, distance from the object, type of lens etc. etc would all have an effect on the views.

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=876411&a=13721293&p=53851631&Sequence=0&res=high

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=876411&a=13721293&p=53851634&Sequence=0&res=high

Thanks for those Nathan. They're very useful!

Chris.

[Natty15d]

No problem Chris.
Both cameras have an identical setup (35mm focal length/lens) & are looking at exactly the same spot on the model.
Its amazing how different something can be made to look just by altering where you take the photo.

Nathan

[corranhornjje]

Just wanted to point out too that the more you tilt the frame down the steeper the angle from bottom to top looks. Just like the opening scroll as it goes back in space it gets smaller and smaller.

[micdavis]

The picture I am using is not tilted. If it were you would be able to see part of either the top or the bottom. It shows neither.

Also consider this.

The Illusive replica was made as follows.

1. ILM molded the original for PH. (Shrink 1)
2. Illusive shot a plaster part from ILMs mold. NOT the original. (Shrink 2)
3. Illusive made production mold from plaster part. (Shrink 3)
4. Illusive makes parts from their production mold. (Shrink 4)

Then add to this.

Immaculate Conceptions does the following.

5. Makes mold from Illusive replica (Shrink 5)
6. Parts made from Immaculate's mold (Shrink 6)

Now that's a lot of shrink.

I contacted a guy I used to work with who has 50 years professional model, pattern & mold making experience.

He said to expect 1/4" to 1/2" shrink on an eight foot run of fiberglass and more for plaster. You do the math.

Ask Rocketeer1938, he will confirm that this guy (Warren) is the man. This guy could "build a quarterhorse out of a jackass".

The only reason I am being so adamant about this is I don't like people getting the impression that something is 100% accurate when it isn't. I am not claiming anybody has said that either.

I just want to go on the record saying I think these things are somewhere between 2 to 3 inches to small.

AND again I am still going to make the boxes to cKings dimension.

Vince and I are going to work together on the prototype this Sunday.

Later

Michael

[micdavis]

*EDIT* micdavis, I've just looked at your new "makeitfit" photo. My blueprint is taller than the photo of the original prop in your comparison!!! That proves my point exactly - the photo of the original has the block tilting away from the camera. With this in mind, why have you concluded that the blueprint is too small when it is quite clearly BIGGER than the original on your comparison?

I know the picture is smaller. It actually proves my point.

Because I had to scale down the picture so it would fit in your drawing.

I aligned the lines on the real block with the lines on your drawing (on the sides & bottom) where the flat meets the "carbonite ripples" to show that it doesn't fit.

[micdavis]

Here is the best picture I've ever seen of the block.

What makes you believe it is tilting away from the camera?

The lighting on all parts is even and you can't see any of the sides except the control panels. And even those are showing in close to even amounts.

Straight on from the front.

You couldn't ask for any better. In fact it makes me think twice of the severity of the side tapers.

http://www.cdsandiego.com/mjd/ff3.jpg

Think what you want. I'm convinced.

[cking]

Hi micdavis,

We are obviously going around in circles here so I don't see the point of arguing this point any further. I hear what you are saying regarding the shrinkage caused by the mold making. I sent that "best photo" to you and I would just like to point out that you are looking more up Harrison's nose in that photo than you are in my head on photo of the Illusive version. The Illusive is a cast from that original. They didn't alter the head to not be so tilted so it can only be attributed to a different camera angle. Never completely trust photos from books (that one is a scan from the book "From Star Wars to Indiana Jones: Best of the Lucasfilm Archives). They touch up the photos and add backgrounds to them. I've actually got another photo that shows the prop being set up for this shot and it's just resting on a grey sheet backdrop, so they obvisouly touched it up and gave it a white background for the book.

I am very excited to see how you get on at the weekend with Vince. Please post photos as the frame progresses. I can't wait!

Kind regards,

Chris.

[CorellianExports]

Chris,
When I started this project last year, I used the photo above along with measurements taken from an original IC panel. I found that just about all of their dimensions were indeed correct.
If they constructed their panels from scratch, they did do their home work!
I'm finding a few inaccuracies as far as details on the face of the panel.
A recent photo I came across (yesterday) of the original "Hero" panel shows that there is an additional detail they made a mistake on. However, they probably made it purposefully to help in the molding process. I'm working to correct this problem now.

I will attempt to post a new photo of the panel prototype tomorrow. ;)


PS
IC Did NOT cast their prop from the LFL original carbonite prop! Remember the email sent to us via the R2 builders site?! ;)
If you didn't see it, I can post it here. LFL wanted too much $ to cast the original, so all these prop companies either came up with their own artist's "proof" or borrowed a second hand copy.

[CorellianExports]

Hi,
This is what Mr. Don Bies (ILM Prop maker) Posted recently on the R2 builders board:


In 1989, Planet Hollywood contacted Lucasfilm about getting some
props to display in their restaurants. Lucasfilm didn't want to give
(or sell) them originals, but was willing to allow ILM to make
replicas. Their first order, originally for the New York site, was
R2 & 3P0. I headed that project up and we molded original parts very
quickly to do these one offs (Later, Don Post would use a casting
from these molds that lives at ILM for his molds for R2, and castings
directly from our trashy 3P0 molds.) Their second order was Vader
(originally for the Chicago site) and Han in carbonite(don't know
what happened to that one). (Another sidenote: One of the cardboard
standees that they sold later was actually a photo of this Vader
replica, and it also appears on the box art for the 12" Kenner figure
released in the early 90s.) At the archives, there were 2 castings
of the carbonite Han--the painted, aged one used in the film with the
control panels on the side(actually dashboards from some european car-
-look for the turn signal indicators!) and one that was plain with no
panels. We molded the latter, but took out some undercuts from
behind his fingers for ease of molding. Quick panel mock-ups were
scratch-built and sent off to PH, while the mold went to the
archives. Years later, when Illusive Concepts wanted to make one,
they came to the archives and pulled a plaster cast from our mold,
then made their own production mold. I don't know if they did any
further modifications or not to it, and they made their own control
panels.

One more anecdote: The ILM model shop made a carbonite Han casting
to adorn its walls, and when the Jedi:Special Edition was being
filmed, IT was used in the background behind the taiko drummers. To
fill the space in the panels, the still photographer took photos of
the real panels (it was going away to some exhibit and couldn't be
used) and those were blown up and attached to the panel spots.

Tune in again tommorrow for "Storytime with Don".....

--Don

[HMS MIKE]

Hi, was going to call you .But I do not have your #. I thank you have my #


HMS Mike

[cking]

Hi everyone,

I was looking through my reference photos last night and I stumbled across a shot taken at Magic of Myth. Completely by coincidence, I had taken a shot of my Illusive Originals version from what appears to be exactly the same angle! As before, I have imported both photos into Photoshop and using the transparency tool, was able to overlay them on top of each other and scale them up or down until the size of the hands, face etc, etc was a perfect match. As you can see, the Solo Carbon casting is exact but the sides definitely appear to be less angled on the original (I'm not talking about the taper from top to bottom, but rather the flare from the front face of the panel to the back face of the frame). micdavis had suggested that maybe Illusive sculpted their frame with more exaggerated flare for ease of molding purposes.

Here's the pic:

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=876411&a=13721293&p=53882869&Sequence=0&res=high

What you think?

Chris.

[cking]

One final thing has occurred to me. All of this scaling up or down is inconclusive because without a confirmed height of the original to compare against the height of the Illusive version, the images can be scaled to match each other.

From what micdavis has said, there must have been SOME shrinkage between the original and the final Illusive version. Therefore, even though the proportions etc are the same, the actual Illusive prop could be shorter but the reason why it doesn't look it when compared to the original photos is that I have been scaling them up or down to match each other, when in real physical terms, they may not.

Still, I think that the overall effect is certainly not compromised even if the Illusive is shorter. I still feel that the shrinkage of the Solo casting is minimal because the size of Ford's head is human scaled. In other words, it doesn't look like a shrunken head.

Chris.

[jbarela]

Yea it must of shrink some...from your pics Chris it seems that hans right hand pinky is closer to the smooth surface of the box on the IC and the pic of the original shows that his right hand pinky is a lot farther away from the smooth surface of the box...is it me or just the photo...but it seems that the shape of the mouth(lips) is different from eachother...and the original seems to have a longer neck(chin to collar).

[cking]

Hi jbarela,

I think some shadow and flash highlights are misleading you regarding Han's right hand pinky. They look the same to me, as does the neck height. If you print that photo comparison out and draw a line from one point on the original photo, then carry it across horizontally to the same point on the Illusive version, you will find that any point you pick will line up properly. I think that the shape of the lips only appears different due to the lighting. Remember, the original prop was photographed in the subdued light of the Magic of Myth with a faint spotlight shining down. My photo of the Illusive prop was taken outside. Also, the surface of the Illusive has a high gloss instead of the semi-gloss on the original. The extra shiny surface of the Illusive prop will pick out the light and flash from the camera slightly differently.

Kind regards,

Chris.

[micdavis]

Also remember aside from shrink the simple fact that both Illusive and Imacculate used/use fiberglass, which is not the most precise medium. Some distortion is going to occur there as well.

[sfprops]

Vince: That was Don Bies (ILM Model Builder) and not Don Post in the quote above. Just to clarify.

[CorellianExports]

Mike,
Just emailed you about my number.

Kurt,
Thanks! I'm glad I originally wrote "I believe this is Mr. Don Post".
I forgot you were browsing that board as well. ;)

[Glitch]

I think it all boils down to this...

Did the Illusives piece originally come from a LFL mold? Yes.

Was there some shrinkage along the way? Yes.

Do we know EXACTLY how much? No.

If we did, could we do anything about it? No.


Because of this, we can only work with the best that is available. If you begin to change the scale of everything around the facing just because the original was larger by some unknown margine, it COMPLETELY throws the proportions off. With this in mind, I think you guys are taking the correct approach.

We can only work with that which we are delt. In this case, we have a casting of the carbonite facing that is smaller than the original due to multiple recasts. Unfortunately, we just need to roll with it.

[rayra]

bump

[micdavis]

Vince and I made a little progress this weekend.

We verified the programming for cutting the boxes.

Here are the results.

1. Cutting the prototype.

http://www.cdsandiego.com/mjd/cutting.jpg

2. Looking good.

http://www.cdsandiego.com/mjd/box1.jpg

3. OOPS!!! One glitch!! Look at the bottom right.

http://www.cdsandiego.com/mjd/box2.jpg

4. Mugging for the camera.

http://www.cdsandiego.com/mjd/mugging.jpg

Sometime this week I am going to get the first couple of acrylic ones cut and Saturday or Sunday I will assemble and trim them.

But the programming worked and Vince's prototype control panel fit in nicely.

So we are progressing.

Later

Michael

[CorellianExports]

Looking good, Mike ;)

We verified that my prototype panel will fit nicely within the rectangular cut outs. :)

I double-checked the measurements of Chris' CAD drawing with the LFL book, and they are Centimeters apart here and there....which is good because we now know that we're not far off. ;)

[Randy5000]

how much do you think these side panels will cost and will they be available for purchase? I built my FRAME like two door frames that go on top of each other with a 6-8 inch "pillar" in each corner so now all I need is the four sides
with the cut-outs, and the Man attached to a flat thin board that lays on top and I would put screws like 5 on each side, and 3 top and bottom. Then I would take wood putty to cover up where the screws are so you cant see them, before painting the whole thing....

so again, my question is - Will the four side panels in either wood like you made it or a harder model be available for say someone like me to buy or will I have to make my own? just wondering!

Randy

[Helmschmied]

btw, I think the line is :"I dunno, fly casual~~" (no -ly) ;)

ok, now Ive dun it...Im officially a SW geek..I know all the lines by heart.
H

[cking]

Great work micdavis (and Vince)

It's shaping up nicely. I can't wait for the next update. It already looks better than the Illusive box!

Chris.

[micdavis]

Okay here is the deal.

I will start a list of interested people.

All I can really provide is the following.

Precision CNC cut 1/4" acrylic (plexiglass) top, bottom, sides (with the cutouts for the control panels) and four strips for the frame around the Man.

These will need to be glued together and trimmed with a router to give them the radii shown on cKing's drawing.

(EDIT: What I meant by this is YOU will have to assemble them.)

As for the control boxes, CE is working on the master and I am pretty sure we are going to mold it and at least make the bezels. You may have to detail them yourselves or CE may make finished panels. That's up to him.

Price is going to be $250 + shipping (This DOES NOT include the Control Panels). Depending on the number of people, that could come down.

Email me to get on the list. Include real name, screen name and street address (for shipping estimate), to:

thecaptain@mixed-media.net

I will wait one week then base the price on the number of takers.

Later

Michael

The List (as of 9/20)
1-micdavis
2-cking
3-CorrellianExports
4-CZJXM7
5-Randy5000
6-Flix4Me
7-Rogue428
8-Cerney1
9-corranhornjje

[Helmschmied]

micdavis:

what is the specific wood type, size, thickness etc???

Any possibility you guys could do these in plexiglass or something with a longer lasting quality than wood? ~~Painted~~ wood is only good for a few decades, and while that may seem long enough, I hate the idea of this prop decaying when a plastic or metal version would outlive it.

I know this sounds anal, but I figured its worth the inquiry.

Helm

[micdavis]

Sorry about that. I edited my previous post to include that.

Later

[Helmschmied]

most definately interested/in
Helm [dominionwestreproductions@hotmail.com]
thanks

[micdavis]

If you're in email me at the above link with the info requested.

[CorellianExports]

Randy5000,
It sounds like you're NOT on my waiting list for a panel.
Please send me an email to get on the waiting list.

Because I have yet to do a first pull of the prototype panel, I can not yet estimate how much a single panel will cost. I'm guessing that a "stripped down" version of the panel with nothing on it will be around $50 +/-
A built-up version with lights, will probably run $250.

I'll be giving a discount to those who order all 8 panels.

Update: At this point the main template for all the panels is only weeks away from being complete.
I only need to recreate some of the smaller, detailed pieces (The "H", etc.)
I already forsee problems replicating the small grill that goes on the Hero panel, but if that can not
be had (worst case scenario) then I'll ship out the Hero panels without this piece and I
can provide those people with "upgrade" kits if there is an interest. I am currently on the look out for the "found" part so I can cast it. I'll certainly keep every one updated with my progress.

[Randy5000]

CE, check your emails from Randy Johnson, you told me in an email I am number #28 on your list, so you should already have me lined up for a set of the panels...GREAT!!!

[micdavis]

I cut the first set of acrylic parts today.

It took an hour and forty-five minutes. Ouch!!

Gonna have to make some adjustments to the programming.

Later

[CorellianExports]

Mike,
Glad to hear about the progress ;)

Randy,
I have you down on the list as #20 ;)

[Randy5000]

CE - Cool - Cant wait...Now if MicDavis can update his list of people who are on the list for one of his boxes? Then things would be right in the world again.

[micdavis]

I have updated the list.

But here it is again.

Not much response.

The List (as of 9/20)
1-micdavis
2-cking
3-CorrellianExports
4-CZJXM7
5-Randy5000
6-Flix4Me
7-Rogue428
8-Cerney1
9-corranhornjje

That's it so far.

[CorellianExports]

After having spoken with Mike and a couple of professional prop makers, I think building this one from scratch is certainly the way to go if one hasn't purchased the IC prop already.

[Helmschmied]

im very interested
Helmschmied

[Rogue428]

add me to the interested to the box.

Out of curiosity, what kind of glue would you use to assemble such a thing?

[micdavis]

Helm

Please email with your info as requested above if you are interested.

Rogue, got it.!!

[Cerney1]

Im STILL Interested....add me

[micdavis]

bump

[animetronic]

Well, I think this debate was wonderful and entertaining to read. I have been looking for an IC or even a secondary mold to purchase for a long time. I havent been able to find one. If anyone would like to steer me towards a knock off or maybe the certified one, I would appreciate it. The frames look good. I would be content to just have the IC version at this point though.

Josh Miller
(scifitrader@hotmail.com)

[corranhornjje]

Throw me up on the acrylic list. It'll save me a ton of time and effort, plus it'll look 10X better.

[CorellianExports]

Try browsing ebay. An IC Han Carbonite prop will come up about once a month or so.

Be prepared to pay the big bucks, however!
I have never seen one of these go for less than $2K!!!
I watched one last spring go for $4K!!!!

Good luck ;)