CSC Discussion ~ All SWFans.net Posters

[Nupraptor]

As you may have heard by now, Fighting Reality - one of the oldest boards in this roleplaying community - Got arbitrarily deleted (http://login.ezboard.com/fbugsfrm66.showMessage?topicID=2657.topic) the other day. The owners of the board had done nothing at all to warrant this: There was nothing going on at this board other than casual roleplaying. Yet, due to "technical difficulties" on EZboard's part, the board is now gone. When Ogre inquired about this at their support forums, their response was "Sorry, it wasn't a CSC board, so there's nothing we can do for you" (to paraphrase).

Now, many of you might be thinking "Well, that's ok: SWFans is a CSC board." But it won't be for much longer. EZboard is doing away with the CSC Blue program, citing a lack of funds as the reason. Which means that we're going to be left high and dry if something like this happens to us.

If we want to insure that nothing like that will ever happen to this board, our only option is to purchase a CSC Gold membership for SWFans. At the last count, this would cost somewhere between $700-800 US for Six Months. Obviously, that's a great deal of money. It might be feasible, however, if we can get everyone - and I mean everyone - to donate money to the Community Chest. Even then, that will have to be renewed every Six Months.

However, that is not our only option. I've been looking into other alternatives to EZboard for a while now, and I've come up with some decent results. More research will have to be done before anything is a definite, though.

UBB - Most of us here are familiar with UBB. It is, in fact, probably one of the most well known types of messageboards. They're reliable, offer useful updates that are entirely optional, and are very customisable. The hitch, however, is that they have a one time fee of a certain amount (The last person I talked to said that the fee was around $250 US). Also, I believe that you need to provide your own hosting for the board. This can get expensive quickly.

YaBB - This service was brought to my attention by DvdJervs. YaBB is almost identical to UBB in every way, including all the aesthetics. The only real difference is that YaBB does not have the one-time fee to use their boards: It's entirely free. But, like with UBB, you need to provide your own hosting. And again, this can be expensive.

Those are the options I know of off the top of my head: Everyone can chip in for a CSC Gold membership, or we can look into finding another messageboard system that suits our needs. Please contribute your opinions, as this will affect the future of SWFans.

[Jubei SaDherat Vader]

I have cash money to help out....whichever we decide to work with. Preferably with EZ, but I am honestly not sure how long this will hold out :|

[Dalethria Mal Pannis]

I personally would like to keep swfans on ezboard but that is just me and I am willing to put some money into anything that we all decide.

[ReaperFett]

She canna' hold it any more captain, we doont have the pooer! :)


I say only UBB if, and I mean if, we have it as customizable as here. from large as making new forums, to as small as a little title that tells us who's an admin.

I cant give money unfortunately, which is a deli of a pickle.


We should try to stay here I think though. Despite what people say, it IS a good service here

[Jubei SaDherat Vader]

(Thinks about 1,800 bucks in money market account)

Concience: THAT IS FOR SCHOOL AND TUITION!

Me: I know that :: innocence ::

Concience: Oh do you? Feh, you'll probably just blow it on guinness and gain weight and be drunk and dumb.

Me: NO! I've changed!

Concience: :p uh huh...sure.

[Nupraptor]

I honestly don't know how much money I can contribute to the effort. It depends on several factors. I'd like to say that I'm entirely impartial, but I'm not: I'm afraid that I'm getting a bit fed up with EZboard. But I will, of course, contribute what I can to whatever everyone decides.

[Keman]

I'm 16 unemployed, living at home, still in Highschool.....

So I can't donate, sorry.

[Darth Snack]

UBB is a great service, and if need to change, I'd suggest that.

But one of the reasons why I haven't become a gold, or at least blue is, as Keman said, still in highschool, unemployed (cept for a mowing lawn thing where i get $25 a pop.. but that money is being saved for college, college books and hopefully car soon) and 17. :(

[Vega Van Derveld]

Those UBB options would be good if we could get a domain to use. They come pretty cheap now I think, some about $2.50 a month (for .nu domains).

As for the fee for the thing itself, I don't know how we would manage it. Same for the Gold'. :/

EDIT NOTE - has anyone read up on "coolboard"?

[Ryu Warusa]

No one knows. We're all clueless on the subject. I think we should continue looking for other alternatives.

[Jedah Lynch]

And here I just sent Ezboard money for the blue option just a week ago, not sure if will get it now due to what EZ said though since they are canceling it.

*shrugs*

All in all cost me 32.00 Canadian or so for the blue! That includes postage and the whole works. Only God knows what that means if ever tried to pay for a Gold board ugh.

As for UBB...can get hacks etc that basically does what Ezboard does now with its options. Only need to host it and thats still cheaper then what Ez is offering for gold right now.

[Vega Van Derveld]

www.ikonboard.com/ (http://www.ikonboard.com/)

Maybe?

[Valk Twilight]

Id be welling to offer up some bucks from may pay every week, but thats about it. Though, if we were to make a mass exodus, please let me know b4 hand....

[Admiral Lebron]

In the fall, I may, MAY, get a job, depending on first half semester grades. If I get a job, I could probably contribute some money. Otherwise, nothing for now.

[Nupraptor]

One way or another, someone is going to have to drop some money. The question is more of whether to do it with EZboard, or to start looking for a cheaper alternative.

[Valk Twilight]

Maybe we should spread the word to the other forums and startin hittin them up for money too...

[Ogre Mal Pannis]

I am of the opinion that I would hate to just pack up and move on, leaving all the work we have all poured our hearts and souls into, behind to probably eventually be lost forever. But I am also aware that ezboard is becoming quite the expensive option to keep as a CSC community and those costs seem to be rising at every turn.

I believe that we should consider attempting to raise the funds to either make this community CSAC for 6 months or a year and seriously look into some other options in the meantime, while trying to archive what already exits here on our own to some extent, so that if we do decide to move, our history and hard work can be preserved.

[Jeseth Cloak]

I'd have to agree with Ogre. if we do move from SWFans.net the fact still remains that all of our RPs will be left behind unprotected. Moving would be nice, and yes I do despise the way Ezboard is handling things lately, but the entire community is based here. Back when the Battleground was not hosted her,e but over at CC.net (or so i've heard) the community was not nearly as large as it is now, making moving from one location to another fairly simple (that's what I've been lead to beleive anyway), and so now it's a lot more complicated...

[Admiral Jyener]

With 5600+ users at this board, not counting people that don't post here anymore or old names not used anymore, everyone would only have to pay 8 cents for 700 bucks.

[DvdJervs]

:: morphs into re-existence ::

Hello again people. Nice to see you all again. I only wish it was under better circumstances. :(

Firstly I'll provide links to YaBB that Nup mentioned above. As he said it's almost identical to UBB (some differences of course) but it's almost free (I say almost because if you pay 'donations' they'll throw in technical help when you run into a hitch. Anyway here they are:

YaBB Homepage - yabb.xnull.com/ (http://yabb.xnull.com/)

TeamBG.com (community that uses YaBB software) - www.teambg.net/teambg_com...n/YaBB.cgi (http://www.teambg.net/teambg_com/cgi-bin/YaBB.cgi)

Check them out and decide what you think.

Secondly, I beg the admins to put a NICE BIG LINK up the top of the board linking to this thread for ALL to see. There are over 200 posters in Replica Props alone who would probably be very interested in reading this.

Finally, I'll just say that the last 6 months with ezboard have been the most pathetic I have seen in the 2 years or so I have been registered. I'm aware of their financial difficulties but their constant backflips, policy changes et al have already turned me off them forever. It came to the point that I was so concerned about ezboard disappearing forever that I contacted Nup about the possibility of SWFans moving to another board system, which is where I suggested YaBB. I hope that whatever happens the posters here can find a stable place for themselves to contrivute without having to worry about board deletions and account losses anymore. :(

Good luck. I hope it all works out in the end.

[Mortaniuss]

Jervs: The same discussions are going to be started in the other forums as well, no worries.

[DvdJervs]

Having one big discussion thread would be easier to manage and keep track of than 3-4 seperate threads with ideas split between all of them, but it's up to you. :)

[ReaperFett]

small groups can cause trouble in many places. One could cause a distraction, while we sneak round the back, and plant the C4...


Sorry, what were we planning on blowing up? :)

[Darth Varlon]

If it weren't for the fact that my cash is going towards college (Even though it's community, it pretty much killed my savings account in a single swift strike), I'd chit in. If I manage to get some excess cash, I'll look into it.

[Master Windu]

someone been playing too much counter-strike me thinks... :)

[aStanze]

I was about to put a Role Playing Forum at the Board I Admin, then I remembered that CSC Gold charges by the bandwidth used.:( So I had to make the decision not to add any RPG Forums since that wouldn't be affordable by our broke-asses....I really wish EZBoard wasn't going to get rid of the flat rate.:/ This F--king sucks.

-Stanze

[Admiral Lebron]

Poor Sanis..if he paid 8 cents for every nick he has used here.... poor him.

Anyway, I could probably get money here..like three, four dollars..

[Morgan Evanar]

Actually, you guys need to know how much web hosting costs... and for a board that pulls this kind of bandwidth... yeowch.

[DrStranglove]

Hi,

I am from the RPF. I could be counted on for about $300 to keep the RPF up and running. If not the whole system. However, as this system is taking bloody ages to pull up from page to page...seems like a server problem...whoever wants to get in touch with me should use my email...

DrStranglove@nc.rr.com


DrS

But I then found this key, it works well!!!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DrStranglove/files/First%20try/winsucks3
http://www.contrabandent.com/pez/otn/violent/awing.gif

[PraetoriteYominCarr]

Maybe it's a long shot, but would SWfans.net host a new board? With some limited financial support from us pinch pockets?

[Lady Vader]

Ok, there are something like 5000+ registered people here at the SWF EZboard... almost 6000. Now, I have a big hunch not all post here constantly, but still, a good portion of those numbers do. And I'm hoping (more like praying) that at LEAST 400 post here and give a womp rat's ass about this place. Now if we could get those supposed 400 to donate just $2, we could reach $800 in the blink of an eye (that's only 8 quarters people). Now, I know some people out there already that have said they'd pay more than just $2. I myself would pay something close to $10. But, every bit counts. We just have to pull together.

I'm only worried now about those boards that aren't under ANY CSC program (The Sith Order, Sith Ladies Lounge, Blue World, The Cizerack Pride, Sanis' Joint, The Black Hand, Death Fleet, Fear's Womb... and that's just a handful... I know there are plenty more I didn't put in). SWF, GJO, and TSE are all under the blue program, which is now going the way of the dodo. And I know not everyone can contribute to all the boards they visit. They'd have to do something short of winning the lottery. With this whole screwy set-up EZboard has thrown into our laps, we may even have to resort to making one gigantic big-ass board with all the major groups in it (though I HOPE it doesn't come down to that).

*sigh* My head hurst from all this, and thinking about it all at once isn't helping. I echo Nup's sentiments. I'm starting to get sick and tired os EZ's little surprises.

But, for now, let's see if we can't save what we have here. Let's see if we can't find those 400 or close to less with 2 bucks in their pocket that they're willing to spend for their on-line home.

[Emperor Shimi]

Where's Jerry Lewis and his telethon when you need him :)

But good idea LV

[Lady DeVille]

If we all donated 2 dollars...I could do that. But what good does it do if in the next three months Ezboard changes again, raises the prices and we're having this discussion again?? Only that time we'll all be $800 poorer.

The only thing I'm worried about is losing all of the RPs and OOC threads that are on Ezboard. Is there anyway that they can be archived someplace where they'd be completely safe forever?! I'd print them all up, but that would cost a billion dollars. ;) And then I'd bind them in books and send them all over the world to every RPer. ;) hehe, I wish....

[Mortaniuss]

Tell you what: Give me a weekend where I don't need to post to anything and about a gallon of Java, and I'll save every thread here. :)

[Morgan Evanar]

Actually, you can tell everyone to screw themselves, and I'll juice ya with some really good bean.

And then send me a biiiig zip or rar, and I'll burn five backups.

[Xenos Zaide]

Well, hopefully by the end of this year, I'll have a job. If this board hasn't gone down, I'd be able to donate some money. But it'd be Aussie dollars.. dont know what that equals in American money..

(BTW; this is Kaine.)

[Vega Van Derveld]

login.ezboard.com/fezboar...=163.topic (http://login.ezboard.com/fezboardfrm32.showMessage?topicID=163.topic)

Has anyone considered that? :|

[Arya Ravenwing]

SAVE THE RPs! <---my new bumper sticker, overlaid on the Save the Whales sticker.

:) I'd click ads, but....Oh heck, I'll click them anyway.

[xwing15]

This affects everyone, doesn't it. RPF, SS Modelling etc. I would be glad to contirbute $2 or $3 every 6 months.

[philippes]

Richard Coyle has a pretty nifty board at:

www.icweb.com/forums/index.php?f=8 (http://www.icweb.com/forums/index.php?f=8)

Several EZBoard features are missing, however.

Phil

[PEN Vermillion]

I'd be leery of any business that changes their rates and policies as often as ezboard does. Their service is terrible (they never did solve the problem with the replica props forum, we finally had to just relocate). Bad to mediocre service is acceptable if it's free or cheap, but soon it will be neither.

Look at this:

www.cihost.com/?zone=prod...ng_details (http://www.cihost.com/?zone=products/shared_nt_hosting_details)

If CSC gold is really going to cost $800 for six months, that's $133 a month. Depending on how much storage space this board takes up, we could probably get away with paying a lot less by just hosting it ourselves, be it with CiHost (above) or any other hosting company. Note that the bandwidth is unlimited in all those plans - the only thing we'd need to concern ourselves with would be disk space.

We could host whatever board we wanted on it, be it UBB, YaBB, whatever. There's also vBulletin - I have a little experince with that from TribalWar (if you're not a gaming geek, don't ask), and it is VERY nice, with a lot of powerful features. That's $160 for a lifetime purchase, though.

www.vbulletin.com/ (http://www.vbulletin.com/)

Hosting our own site would give us MUCH more control. We wouldn't have to count on anyone to back our site up, we could do it ourselves. If we feel like CiHost is giving us the shaft, we could move to a different provider, and easily bring every single post with us. It will give us the power to shop around, and to change providers without hurting ourselves, and that's important. Ezboard has us by the balls right now (pardon the expression) because they own all of our messages. That's why they think they can get away with jacking the rates every six weeks. We'd have to swallow the loss of our old messages to move on, but in the long run, it's something worth considering.

As an added bonus, you'll notice all the plans on that page I listed come with unlimited email accounts. If we were so inclined, we could give everyone on the board a username@swfans.net email address (or whatever name we wanted to host under). Or, we could reserve that for people that contribute money to the board, whatever.

Anyway, just something to think about. I feel like ezboard has us captive now, it's up to us to decide when we've had enough of it.

[Mortaniuss]

That's some very, very useful information, Vermillion! Thanks for the help. I am sure that it will be taken into serious consideration.

[Admiral Jyener]

LV made some good points too. What would happen to all the group boards? If we moved to other servers, there would be no way we could afford to host them all.

And 2 bucks is one day's lunch money, no big deal. Only problem is how would people with no credit cards send it in? Only thing I could think of is mail it to someone willing to collect it all and pay it forward with their own card.

[SinkTube Jedi]

What the hell is this, first the charge individuals to use the board, now they are going to charge for having a forum????

What is wrong with this picture?????

[Zayn]

you know for that amount of money you could buy your own server and just run YaBB


Im from amfilms (http://www.randomstringofwords.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl) where we switched from ezboards a while ago to yabb (im happy we did) it's not worth all this crud to keep up w/ there changes, if they want money ezboards should actually treat people a little better then crap- I have lost all respect for them
and I think its hard to ask people for money, expecally ever 6 months...

Im sure there are other board systems out there that are great also (isn't there a gamers board thing as well, and ubb)

another thing to think about is this- w/ all the trouble ezboards has been though do you think they can stay up? its possible you pay the $800- then 2 months later they file bankruptcy
and you've all lost the money

Jubei SaDherat Vader- 1.8k? hmmm that'll cover your books :) I just love college...

[Jeseth Cloak]

All of the options seem very good, but I myself don't like the idea of moving just simply because every group could not ever afford an individual board, meaning that RPers (at the least) would have to continuesly switch back between the YaBB (or UBB) board and Ezboard (if it was even still up by then).

[Jedi Rory]

The key thing to remember here, kiddies is this:

1) Ezboards has pulled sheisty stuff in the past....is it really worth continuing to be with them after all of it? Bad service, little to no warning with immediate changes (ie deletion of boards). Why continue to throw good money after a decreasingly bad service?

2) Like Zayn said....you could pay whatever they want, and then a few months down the line they could claim bankruptcy and you basically eat whatever you paid them. That's bad juju, guys.

3) Should you do what the amfilm/fff did, and run your own YABB board off of some other place, then make sure you get a solid/stable connection. Don't run it off of your own Cable/DSL modem....you won't survive the bandwidth you'll pull down. Make sure to get some kind of a T1 line or the equivalent therof. It may be a bit costly, but it'll be fast and more importantly, STABLE.

[Katya Glasc]

Hi. I don't know anyone here but I've just set up my own ezboard and after reading this I'm a bit upset. I was hoping to be able to rp at this board as well and I don't want to comment one way or another as to the decisions you are in the process of making.

I will however offer my help. I can look into other boards as well and I can contribute anywhere from that piddly .08 to no more than $1000.00 to helping you, all the rpers, either keep this board or move to another location. And yes, that monetary figure is correct, it wasn't a typo. I've come into a bit of money from an inheritance which I will be receiving in the next 6-8 weeks. I like to rp too and I think what you've achieved here is something worth preserving/keeping.

Oh, one more thing. Here is a link that may prove useful

http://www.paypal.com

I have a personal account set up there and they have a great reputation. I don't know if ezboard is set up with this payment/receivement service or not, but if they are, this might be one way to collect funds into one account to either pay someone back for funding whatever you decide upfront, or possibly setting up a 'universal' account so that the members my submit their donations to one fund then the owner of the account can pay ezboard or whomever.

Just another avenue to look into.

Sorry I cannot be of more help....

[Rama Sha]

Ezboard does accept Paypal......I got and used it both to pay for my blue and for that 14 bucks I dropped into the Community Chest a few weeks back.

[Lady DeVille]

Yeah, I used it too, for MY blue. I was just talking to a person who uses infopop for an RPing board...But I lost his AIM name, and the link to the board, so guess what this post is? Just another meaningless post from MOI!

[Serena Laran]

...Found it. ;) its here, for a reference point of what people have done at other boards: vedj.vastempire.com/ (http://vedj.vastempire.com/)

[Vega Van Derveld]

I can look into other boards as well and I can contribute anywhere from that piddly .08 to no more than $1000.00 to helping you, all the rpers, either keep this board or move to another location. And yes, that monetary figure is correct, it wasn't a typo.

:eek: !

[Gitane Blesse]

Okay... Whatever I end up saying will probably have already been said, but here we go.

I would suggest moving SWFans IF it were the only board for this RP, but since it isn't and god knows how many other boards there are tied into this. If we move, then it'll mean a lot of people will have to be racing back and forth between EzBoard and where ever it would be moved onto. I *might* suggest depending on the Community chest, but the problem with that is that humans have a tendency to assume "Oh, someone else is taking care of that" until there isn't anything being done. I know these are kinda very pesimistic sounding opinions, but it's just the thoughts popping into my mind.

There's one thing I remembered and that's the fact that if your board doesn't have CSC, then a back up would cost $30. If a back-up were made every month or so, then it would only cost around $360 per year. If everyone tried to chip in what they could, then that could probably be reached fairly easily. Plus, there would still be a board, with or without a CSC membership. ..From what I understand.

However, I'm only half awake, and most of this must sound like a load of garbage. I'll shush now. But, with one final comment. My birthday is coming up, and since my intrests aren't really talked about, I usually get money. That and the fact I'm gonna start bugging a local comic shop for a job (Yeah, they'll hire a fifteen year old. :rolleyes: ) will allow me to contribute what I can. But, unfortunately, despite the countless "You've been accepted for MasterCard" e-mails I get, I could only pay through mail. And, the local mail is absolutely terrible. Bye-bye.

EDIT - :lol: I just spent a while trying to explain to my mom exactly what SWFans is and what EzBoard is and why I want to contribute money.

[Shret Nion]

Regarding everyone's concern about other group boards.

With UBBs (and presumably Yabbs) it is easy to creat multiple boards and categories. You can even include private boards with user lists/passwords. Therefor, if we do switch to UBB/Yabb, we could host everyone in an assortment of categories and private boards.

I know that UBBs hold well over a 140 Forums, so we could like break each group down just to conserve space (Recruitment, Council, leet, Private 1, Private 2, Training).

[Lady Vader]

Interesting. I did not know you could back up a forum for $30, without participating in the CSC program. All the CSC thing does, I believe, is remove adds. Now, for a big place like SWF, that might be useful. But for the smaller boards, well, I believe the $30 back-up plan would be more efficiant.

We could also consider the back-up plan for SWF. Sure beats the hell out of seeing $800 go flying out the window. Hmmm... $800 every six months ($1600 per year), or $30 every month ($360 per year).

Another possibility to consider.

As to the moving, the only thing I'm concerned about is all the stroies and RPs we have done here. It'd be a pain in the arse to move them all to a new location. And my concern for all the smaller boards is still there.

In a sense, it's the smaller ones that make up the big one.

[Lady DeVille]

(Nup or Evanar: you could really save all the RPs? Awesome... Wanna do it? ;) [makes 500+ copies to send all over the world])

[Darth Syren]

Correct me if I am wrong or misunderstanding something here, but this is my understanding on that back up and restore. I'll c/p it from ezboard.

Backup-Put your ezboard in our weekly backup cycle for free. We suggest you click on this button once a week to ensure your ezboards safety. This will not restore your ezboard; only backup the files for a future restoration request.

Restore-Have your ezboard restored from backup. If your ezboard is CSC the restoration process is free. If you are not CSC it will cost $30 for your ezboard to be restored.


I was also reading some of the forums posted for this at another site and from what I read, all you have to do is click on a banner ad a total of 2x's in one day to help keep ezboard free.

Its not hard to click on two banners in a day then close the window to help keep this a free service.

If I'm misunderstanding all the fuss, please fill me in. I had been considering creating a board as well, but I'm not so sure anymore.

[Gitane Blesse]

Syren, this thread isn't about keeping EzBoard free.. It's the fact that EzBoard is getting more unreliable, and the fact that SWFans would have to be paid for in order to keep from having everything here lost if it's ever deleted.

[Darth Syren]

Ahh, thanks for clearing that up.

I think you have a great thing going here and I'd really hate to see you lose it. Maybe the following suggestions might help:

Maybe a mass email campaign. Those who rp here could submit an email to Ezboard (herein referred to as Ez simply because I am tired, have the flu) voicing their complaints and objections to their plans nd service, or lack there of, in an appropriate manner.

Perhaps a new forum here, specifically set up for that purpose. Perhaps once every few days to a week , the admins and hosts, and other volunteers could c/p whats posted and submit it on behalf of all here. Or maybe the owners of Ez would come read it and post in it as well.

I'm willing to get one of those paypal accounts I noticed mentioned in here and to contribute either a weekly, bi-weekly or monthly amount to help in some small way to defray the costs.

[Admiral Jyener]

What about the people who actual own the SWfans site? This is their board, what do they think about it? I mean, moving to another host doesn't sound like a bad idea, and sounds cheaper. I'm guessing you could host your own images there instead of relying on the sites we use now. But again, you have the dozens of group boards and personal boards. Without them we'd be like a TalkCity but instead of in a chat room, everything happened on the one board.

Or if we were allowed to make more boards/forum under one account, how would the current board owners be involved? I know I'm not the only one out there with no money or credit card to contribute. I think we should just have the board backed up for free and just wait and see what happens. Maybe EZboard will pull out of it with more money from Gold CSC boards. If the board gets deleted, then we just restore it with the 30 bucks already in the chest. If it gets worse and EZboard is definately going down, then we work on moving it all somewhere else.

[Darth Eve]

Nowadays, any sort of entertainment is paid for. IF you had everyone contribute to the $800 then it would be figuratively cheap... but I have a feeling that you don't have all the support for the money that you're counting on.

I myself, am willing to contribute to a certain extent. However, my problem is this:

It's been a matter of months since the CSC programs have started. Since then, we have already seen, what I would consider to be, massive changes regarding prices and benefits (if you would call them benefits). Based on what we have seen happen since the inception of the CSC program, I would logically assume that we are in store for more changes, which will likely be negative. In the beginning, we had an option. Then, later, if you didn't take the "option", you COULD be screwed. Now, if you don't take the "option", you WILL be screwed. An optional service shortly became un-optional, didn't it?

It's called a community program (I know I need not define what community means), yet I saw no community ethics on their part when Fighting Reality was lost.

This thread, is based on finding a solution to a "mutating" problem. Say we somehow come up with the answer here, and one that works. What happens tomorrow? More boards lost? Another $1000 to maintain the service? Where does it end? What can we be sure about?

I think the best solution concerning this particular board, granted that we're going to have to pay money anyway, is to invest it in something we can count on. Save everything and keep using the board as long as we can, but obviously back OURSELVES up.

Unless, like Jyener intelligently mentioned, SWFans hosts their own board. I really think, that if SWFans weighs the options of losing some of its audience over this, they may just fork over the money, or at least the hosting service. It wouldn't be fitting to host this board anywhere else, as long as it carries the swfans name.

[DarthNuriko]

This'll sound kinda stupid but what the hell: How about making another SWFans board and paying the flat 30 bucks for six months for Gold (since the board would be fresh and the page views next to none). I mean the price is fixed, right? Once we pay, we could use up as much bandwith in our allocated period as we needed couldn't we, or am I wrong? The money in the chest here can be saved to ensure that this board gets restored if anything is lost and we could do the same for the new board. Total cost: about 90$. (Unless you do that thing where you pay them for a year and get a discount. Still helluva a lot cheaper than 800-something something.) I dunno, just another wacked idea from Nuri. :p :lol:

[Moff Handler]

I get what you mean Nuri... We'd have to make sure there are no legal binds if we do that since it is technically cheating the system.

[DarthNuriko]

Cheating the system? Why I would never suggest such a thing... It's just that this board was getting too crowded.... yeah, that's it. <img SRC=http://home.earthlink.net/~binkiyilo/Images/devil.gif>

[Jeseth Cloak]

Nuriko... where have you been all my life?! :lol: Someone else who enjoys cheating the system as much as I do. ^_^ I totally agree with her suggestion. In fact, we could pay for a full year from what I've read at the ezboard help forums, and we'd get a %20 discount off their usual prices for the second 6 months... it makes you wonder if you're allowed to pay a one time cost for say, three or four years? If so, then maybe that's exactly what can be done. There is one problem however, which someone mention, what about those that own the SWFans.net website and board?

Moving the community might mean no longer being part of SWFans.net if the website owners don't approve of us moving or them hosting a board.

[Captain Tohmahawk]

Miving the board should be out of the question UNLESS the owner of SWFans and the ultimate Admin, being Jason F, agrees that should be looked at. Otherwise, moving means you are ineffect creating a new community, so if that is the case, why dont we all go to www.coruscantcity.net ?

The fact is, self hosting is a right pain in the arse. Who is going to maintain the server? Who pays? You? Me? And then, how is it payed? How long before it goes to hell because no one cares or wants to do it anymore? You are going to get the same problem as you have now, just different and delayed, no more.

Oh yeah, we say we would all pay to do this, well lets see the money. If we all say we want SWFans to live in it's present form then the best solution is bite the bullet and pay up. And sue EZboard for breach of contract if it changes. $1000 pays for a shitload of bandwidth and admin time.

Now, they are saying that they will host this forum for $x for y time. Fine, that is a contract. We should INSIST Ezboard holds this contract, demand the service WE want for the money.

While EZboard is free, they hold the cards and we are beholden to them. IF we pay, it is NOW the other way around. We pay, THEY provide what WE want, or else and no suggestions to the contrary will be allowed.

Allright, this is what I want.

I want a reliable service that WILL NOT LOSE DATA and WILL NOT LOSE user info
I want a properly admined system, with backups and fallovers
I want Multiid logon.
The serive is guarentteeed for period of payment

It's not too much to ask for.

So if we pay and I suggest we do, at least this once, then as a community WE are now the customer and if EZboard want to survive, they do what WE want because WE pay for their service. They do that, we will pay again, wont we, because we got something good, something we want.

I vote we pay once and make it clear this is the stand we will take. We then have six months to set up something else if we wish, properly planned and executed if we dont get what we were told we would get.

How is that?

[Mortaniuss]

Moving the board should be out of the question UNLESS the owner of SWFans and the ultimate Admin, being Jason F, agrees that should be looked at.Don't quote me on this, but I believe Jason said something along the lines of not caring where the messageboard is located, so long as everybody is happy with the choice. Again, I might be totally off on that, so don't take that as factual until he himself says it.

Nuri: That's actually a pretty decent idea, and is worth looking at.

And, as several other people have already stated: The problem is that EZboard is becoming increasingly unreliable. None of these problems ever rear their ugly heads on UBB boards. Their upgrades not only introduce useful features, but are optional: The owner of the board decides if it would be best to upgrade to the latest version. Most other services bend over backwards to please their paying customers, where EZboard just seems to not give a damn.

If we're going to go for a Gold CSC account, I think we should do what Nuriko suggested; It just doesn't make sense to cough up near $800 to stay with EZboard when we can find other services for far less. Yes, you can say how it would only take 40 people to donate X amount of dollars, but what is the likelyhood of that actually happening? And EZboard has been having financial troubles for quite some time now; I have my doubts about how long they're going to last. If they go under, do we really want to eat that kind of loss?

Again: If everyone wants to stay with EZboard, then I think we should take Nuri's suggestion into consideration. Otherwise, we should look for the cheapest alternative that insures quality service.

[DarthNuriko]

We've BEEN the customer, Tohmahawk, and look at all the things that have happened. Threads lost, boards deleted, accounts deleted and lost, rp threads on free boards locked at 100 without much if any warning. And these announcements of changes that appear practically out of thin air. What happened to the Blue option? They yanked it out from under us. I signed up months ago with the assumption (which was obviously wrong) that if I became a supporter, Ezboard would be safe. That was the assurance I got. These people constantly pull the rug out from under us.

Ezboard says we should always visit their forums to get the latest scoop on things, but I have better things to do with my net time and I'm sure you guys do too. If you want to raise hundreds of dollars to pay for more crap like this, then all the power to you and good luck.

I really don't see what the problem is. The owner(s) of SwFans could be contacted, the situation easily explained. This place could be like an Archives and a new board could be started, linked to the SwFans site. SwFans keeps it's board community, saves money. No harm, no foul. That's just how I see it.

[Morgan Evanar]

I do have a pay clanpages account, and as far as i know, am free to do whatever I choose with it.

[Ogre Mal Pannis]

I also have a pay Clanpages accoutn where a board such at UBB or any of the other options could be hosted. As far as I know, Clanpages is geared towards a gaming type atmosphere, and that is exactly what we as Role Players here are.

But I also think that I would not like to lose any of what we have here and think that trying to preserve and keep this board alive in some way or another is a good idea.

I always have hated moving. x_x

[Lady Vader]

Amen, Ogre. Moving is the pits.

But I do like the idea of using this board as a sort of archives and making a new one. It would be cheaper.

But, like mentioned several times above, we need to tell those that actually OWN the SWFans board. If that isn't doen, then all this talk is waisted energy. (Though I'm pretty sure they know. At least I hope they know. Geez, it IS their board.)

[Force Master Hunter]

Creating a new EZboard, on the hope of getting cheap CSC Gold is a pretty foul tatic. What, we use a new board every 6 months? What happens when EZboard wise up as they will? They would have every right to stop it AND take away CSC Gold. It would be really obvious we would have attempted, for what is my mind a swindle. If I was running EZboard, someone trying that would be made an example of very, very fast.

We're accusing EZboard of dishonesty and acting out of bad faith, yet it's suggested we do the same?

There is one quite real alternative, free one too, set up and ready to use

www.coruscantcity.net (http://www.coruscantcity.net) - old timers would know that was the result of the great Schism that spilt the board in half. Just go there. Dont bother about setting new things up, just simply go.

I do not want to move either, I would rather stay. There is a lot of work done here and after being part of an enforced move with GJO, no one wants to do it again. Setting up new should be the last alternative IF Ezboard dies.

[DarthNuriko]

I wasn't suggesting it as a foul tactic. I don't think we should pick up and move every six months either. That's just silly. :lol:

There is the distinct possibility that we could have a year of guaranteed service at a lower rate by starting a new board and it's completely fair. Really, it wouldn't be any different than a what the Empire did, with the old board as an Archives. It's not a swindle. Giving this board community mere months to pay up over 700 hundred dollars is a swindle. If we were to go with the new board idea and have it at a low rate for a year, we could spend that time collecting in the community chest and might even have the funds to renew properly when the time comes.

Any move of any kind will divide this current community in some way but if we stick with Ezboard and simply create a fresh board, the probability of keeping this community in tact will remain more likely.

They would not have the right to take our CSC Gold away. A new board would be started up as a sequel board and it would be paid for. The fact of the matter is we can't pay and are forced to start a new board in order to continue rping.

Many boards, including this one, were treated extremely unfairly by being given so little time. It's either pay up or lose out. It's not bad faith nor dishonesty... simply a matter of community survival.

[Jeseth Cloak]

Wel, foul tactic or not, I'm for it. And we don't have to do any thing of the sort ever 6 months, since we can pay for an entire year. Legally, we're in the clear with this idea. What's ezboard going to get us on, moving our board and purchasing CSC there because we feel like it? Really, I don't think they even have a case there. We're not swindling them anymore than they are swindling us. We purchase CSC Gold at the price of the new board and then use it throughout the year. I am almost certain in any event that this place is already filled to the seems with topics and maybe it's not such a bad idea to just do what TSE did, and set this place up as an archive to which we can link from the new board.

Just the way that ezboard advertised "click here and sign up for CSC, to get rid of pops and ads, FOREVER" then choose to discontinue one of the options that they so fraduantly claimed would do just that, we have the right to click one the create new board button and start over. :)

[Firebird1]

I can talk to someone who has setup another board with YaBB on it and hosts it so I can get you all the costs. But my whole thinking on this is "if Ezboard can't fullfill it's own obligation to it's communities, then what good is CSC anyway."

I've just got the user CSC, but I don't think they will implment any of the projects. Why, well remember the master account idea? It was supposed to allow us to switch names quite easily, and was supposed to be in the spring upgrade. But it hasn't quite matiralized yet. Infact it seems to be spread under the table. Next up we have the axing of the Blue CSC, while many boards can afford CSC Gold, many more (infact many of the large ones, here, The Allspark, ect fit into this catorgory) will have problems with it. Face it, I really can't fit another bill into my budget, and I know many people can't either.
We need a solution that is reliable and feisable. I'm sure that there is an option out there that is low-cost yet has a good service, and many of Ezboards options.

[Firebird1]

Oh and <a href=http://www.coolboard.com/index.html>Coolboards is gone</a> But they do recomend some services we might be able to use.

[Rama Sha]

All the money I can sapre right now is already in the community chest.


And if Nuri's idea would work........I say we go with that.

[Gitane Blesse]

I think our safest bet is to go with the idea of just simply making a new board. It's the one plan that doesn't risk losing a lot of people in a move. SWFans has already been losing some people, and if it were to move to an entirely different system, then chances are, a lot more people would be lost from not being around when the move occured.

[GuardPiett]

I can't beleive Fighting Reality is really gone. :(

[QuiGonJ]

I know CCnet was splintered from SWfans, but the reasons and the history of that are exactly that... history. Truth is, most CCnet posters find time to post here at SWfans.net these days anyway.

If you need our board, feel free to come on over, and we can arrange to make whatever changes you guys need to feel comfortable there. :)

[General Ceel]

I didn't read the entire thread so i'm not sure what has been suggested, but here is an idea i had concering SwFans.

The board should split off into 3 separate ezboards (Star Wars Discussion/entertainment, Role Playing and Replica Props). All three would be linked to SwFans. net

This way each group of SwFans users would be supporting themselves. Since most people only stick to one area in general they will be paying fow what they do, instead of picking up the slack from people in other areas who are not willing to pay.
Role Players should not have to pay for what bandwidth that the replica people are using and vise versa.

[Firebird1]

Oh, heck no!
This board should be kept intact. I like to read through the other forums and catch up with the latest Star Wars news.
Besides it's one less of a headache for the 'real' Admin!

[Darth Sipharus]

i love this board, when i left and came back, i read a bunch and caught up some. But im all cool with cheating the system nuri's idea, i can probably fork over some tuition....or, like 20 bucks or something, no idea...depends on if the authoritve figures authorize my spending....damn parents

[General Ceel]

well Firebird1, unless you can give 1600 dollars a year you are out of luck with ezboard.

[Admiral Jyener]

I got this in an Email, I don't know if it could help at all though.

www.miniServer.wxs.org (http://www.miniServer.wxs.org)

[foxdvd]

I would be willing to support this board, but I hesitate to support anything that sends money to ezboard. Not because I hate ezboard, I just do not like to send money to any group that changes its rules so often. The idea that I would put money into the pockets of a company that might be belly-up the next month scares me.

What swfans.net needs to do is pick one person who would take care of the money. People could send that person money, or they could even set up a ccnow.com account or paypal. With that money you guys can do what you need to with the boards. If that move is to start your own Ubb board, then count me in for financial help. I might even help if it is ezboard, but it makes me sick thinking about it.

[Firebird1]

Seeing that Ezboard is working on allowing us to buy the Ezboard software and put it on our own servers, I think we may have a soultion.

[Hwoarang]

unfortunatly I dont have time to read every post, but I think that CSC gold would be a good idea. UBBs are very expensive and I have never heard of UBBs. Something else......I am broke (I owe my dad $25) so I cant help out :(

[Khendon S]

Eh... I don't know if anyone said this (because I haven't read all of the posts) but: why don't we just program our own? I think we have enough programmers to make one that'll be good enough... don't we? If it gets really bad I can program a client based version of a message board of windows operating systems, but I don't think anyone would want to do that... especially because someone would have to host.

[Force Master Hunter]

Mate, I'm programming a forum right now.

DONT DO THAT AT HOME!!! It's seriously evil stuff, especially with database back end.

No, get a prepackaged one, if we go that way.

[Reysa Sashara]

hmmm, i do think haveing our own would be benifishal but what off the other baords..such as the Sith and Viashino..and the Vong...in the end we might not have any group MB's left..but thats not the concern of the SWfans, but it will be a big prob in the long run...

[Admiral Jyener]

Yeah. If starting our own service allowed multiple boards to be hosted under one account, then that would be cheaper and nice. Even if not, if we moved SWfans over to those new servers EZboard is selling, that will add to their income. The more people that follow over to the purchased servers, the more money EZboard gets, and their is less worry for the small boards that stay free.

And if we hosted just SWfans on EZboard, then everyone could concentrate on donating money to the one board instead of choosing between all the other boards they visit.

[Darth Stalker]

Well I would like to donate,but if I had money it'd be spent in a moment,and the only money I get is during christmas,my birthday...holidays if you will...and I'm wwwwwaaaaaaaayy 2 young to have a job,and so all in all I wouldn't be able to donate.....but if this helps heres a list of message boards.....

www.freecenter.com/forums.html (http://www.freecenter.com/forums.html)



EDIT:Wrong name,Dravin Seris here......

[Gitane Blesse]

such as the Sith and Viashino..and the Vong

Yeah, lets just ditch the Jedi!

:lol: Sorry, I can't resist.

[Morgan Evanar]

I think the ideal route would to purchase a setup such as vBulletin.

A great many larger gamesites are using (all the gamespy based ones).

It seems to be very powerful, flexible and easy to maintain.

[Gitane Blesse]

I still don't like the idea of moving to another system. There are too many boards, and people that would get lost in the move.

I thought we had a good thing going with the idea of moving SWFans to a new EzBoard. :|

[Morgan Evanar]

I thought we had a good thing going with the idea of moving SWFans to a new EzBoard.
Well... lessee..... ez just killed a great many signatures.

Yeah, they can @#%$ themselves now. I'm ready to move to another system.

[Mortaniuss]

people that would get lost in the move.You make it sound like they'll fall out of the moving box and break. :lol:

The reason why it was suggested to move away from EZboard in the first place is because their service is very rapidly degrading: With almost every passing day, it seems like they're trying to figure out new ways to P.O. the average user.

[Gitane Blesse]

Okay, yeah... Screw EzBoard! It beith el crappo now.







Then again, was there a time when it wasn't?

[Morgan Evanar]

Yes.

[ReaperFett]

This is the first time anything Ezboard has done has actually bothered me.

Anyway, you can host a message board on any space provider. You just need to hunt down a fast 'un.


Besides, not like we have to go. We can hold out for a while longer.

[Gitane Blesse]

The thing I don't like is that they're becoming more unreliable and less understanding with each passing day. They're hypocrites and liars and cheats. :mad:

[Vchoun]

After reading through this thread, (Whew! that took a long time), I like either Nuri's idea or making a totally new server...I mean we could create the rules right?
But overall, I think we should just say @#%$ EzBoard and leave
I mean, have they done anything to deserve the loyalty that alot of people ahve towards EzBoard? I first heard about EzBoard from a friend when I was starting p a website, it was told to me as a free message board that could be linked to a site and used as a message board, rather than building one into the site.
Considering I wasnt allowed to spend money on this, I mixed Homestead and Ezboard.
It worked.
But they have made so many changes, its just not worth it.
I say ditch it and go with something more reliable.
And I guess that explains what happened to my sig.

[PraetoriteYominCarr]

The Profanity Filter will be turned ON for all NON-CSC ezboards.
We are taking this step as a result of losing several advertisers after viewing some of our more "interesting" ezboards. By enabling the Profanity Filter on all the ezboards that view ads, we prevent this from happening again.



Bastards. This deal is getting way too personal.

[Gitane Blesse]

And what happens when they start invading PRIVATE forums? I mean, they're bordering the line..




..Lovely sig, BTW. :)

[PraetoriteYominCarr]

Why, thankyou :)

[Master Yoghurt]

*Sigh*

I have great amounts of patience, but the last few months, Ezboard has not made it easy for me keeping the faith. I can really understand and relate to the frustrations expressed in this thread. The only beacon of hope I have left, depends on the downloadable board script, which is about to be released in two months. This allows post migration, global registration/login and full control of the script, thence unlimited customisation back to the administrators where it belongs.

As for Community Chest, I have added my first donation, but I wonder if there are enough posters willing to contribute? Furthermore, one could ask if it is worth spending so much money on such a flawed, unstable and feature restricted product with lacking service and support? $800 buys a lot of bandwidth.

We have at least 5 different alternatives.. A: Pay the $800, B: Establish a brand new GOLD board at $30, then use the 6 months considering alternatives, C: Dont upgrade to GOLD (pop up banners), D: Move to another board system, hosting the board ourselves E: Move to CC.net

(I will comment what I think is the best of these a bit later)

Regarding suggestions for how to outsmart the system, one more effective way, which does not seem to have been mentioned, is create a board GOLD at $30, which is used for a month or so, then as page views for this board drops as a rock, $30 GOLD is purchased for this board as well, using the banner free board for 5 months. The two boards can be used as back ups for each other, when one server is down etc. This way GOLD fee can be kept at a maximum of $60 for infinitive amount of time, just switching between those two boards every 6 months.

(Technically, is is legal, but keep in mind there are ethical sides to this. I would advise against it)

Here is my brief evaluation of some of the board systems I have experience administrating and setting up:

YaBB - CGI based forum script. Rich on features. Free to download.

UBB - Expensive CGI script. YaBB got better features by default. phpBB is faster. vBulletin is much better option IMO.

phpBB - MySQL based (which makes it fast), feature rich and best of all, it is free to download. Possibly the best free script.

vBulletin - IMO the best board system. Very feature rich, and the price for the script is a one time fee. Really large board communities use these because of the speed and stability of MySQL database script. I once saw a board with a million posts and 250,000 users.

Some good options out there. All of these, I could easily set up if requested on a server. However, setting up a board is one thing, bandwidth is an entirely different matter. Anyone got a rough estimate how many Gigabytes per month a board like swfans would use? RPG forums?

(My host allow 3 GB, and while I am sure it would be enough to host GJO board, I doubt it would be enough for swfans RPG forums)

Someone mentioned the possibility of hosting board on a private server at home. For example behind a ADSL router. This is probably the most inexpensive sollution, since there would be no fee per GB of bandwidth or for the server. In addition, there is the advantage of increased performance of a board located on what is essentially a home built dedicated server.

Whatever we chose, I am sure the roleplaying will survive one board system or the other. :)

[Morgan Evanar]

Problem with ADSL hosting:

A) It would bite. Hard. We eat too much bandwidth for most home ADSL users.
B) Somone would have to drop the 200ish a month for a good 1.5/1.5+ SDSL connection.
C) Its against many ISP contracts to do such a thing.

I think we should consider other options from a dedicated web host that is on a dedicated T1 or better (preferably T3/DS or even OC3+).

And vBulletin seems to be the best system.

[DarthNuriko]

:lol: !! @ that banner


::saves image:: :D

[Nupraptor]

:: takes a bow :: :)

--

vBulletin is looking like it would be our best alternative right now. If people need more time to think about it, then we should do as Nuri here suggested and make a temporary new board and pay the $30 for six months. But I sincerely think it's in our best interest to get away from EZboard before they find some new way to aggrivate us.

[Khasha DarNei]

Ok, I feel a bit out of place here since I've only very very recently started posting here due to the recommendation of the rl friend I am living with.

A few of you have been really nice to me in the ooc forum and have helped me a bit and Ogre was really great with making me a sig, thanks again, I love it!

I don't know if it helps, but in a way of saying thanks to Ogre for his wonderful job on my sig, I donated some funds to your community chest thingy. He didn't want to name a board as I had asked him to, but he did tell me to go and put it where I thought it would be well used. I noticed he posted here often so I figured here would be the best place. Oh, ya then my brother made me donate to his board too..*rotten brother*

Anyways, I hope y'all don't go anywhere. I like it here even though I'm new.

[Gitane Blesse]

..Has anyone else noticed that the Release 6.3.5 forum has recently been deleted? That was where the most complaints and intelligent questioning was. Seems they're trying to hide something.

[Morgan Evanar]

Yeah. I'm sure they'll figure another way to screw us from our hard earned cash, but want to keep it quiet.

[Darth Eve]

We should just move. It's cheaper and more reliable, right? Well what else do we want?

[Assaurreei Cassarreessa]

I think we need to get out while we still can. I've lost all faith in ezboard. I cant believe how they treat users these days and Im completely fed up with it all.

[Force Master Hunter]

I would HATE to leave this forum, I really would. O think other would hate it too.

But.....

If we want to build a new home, I can make an offer. I have bandwidth and I have 10Gb+ on a server AND I have the excuse to use it. I need to build a forum and then test for work purposes, thence this can sit alongside. It cant be a permanent home but for testing and programming it will do well. It can be whatever is needed, if there is interest I can give access and web space to work on it. At the moment it's slated to be UBB and it's on W2K.

Yes / No?

[Nupraptor]

I think vBulletin would be a better solution, myself. But otherwise... that sounds great!

Yes!

[Morgan Evanar]

vBulletin is a better solution IMO.

[Force Master Hunter]

I'll go have a look at it.

[Atreyu]

Just a query. Already it seems a potential solution has been found, but I have to ask - is this for SWFans as a whole, or just the Roleplaying forums here?

It's just the impression I'm getting from a lot of the posts here is that this is only a Roleplaying solution. :/

[ReaperFett]

Id want us all to go together. I mean, RPing and Props could last, but what of the others? They are great communities. United we stand, eh?

[Nupraptor]

If we create a replacement board, it's going to have every forum that we have here. In other words, it would be a complete replica of this board. Before we make any official move, I'm going to see to it that the people in all the other forums know about it and are willing to go along with it. As it stands, mostly roleplayers are participating in the discussion since I started the thread here. After the conversation dies down here, I think it might be a good idea to move the thread over to the RPF Off-Topic forum and let them have a shot at it.

[Atreyu]

Thanks Nup for clearing that up. :)

In regards to possible bulletin board software, I would also recommend vBulletin, if someone wants to pay for it. I've heard you can convert Ezboard threads from one to the other quite easily.

[Nupraptor]

Ok... last chance to respond before I move it, everyone. It's been sitting here without replies for a while now.

[Gitane Blesse]

I'm totally up for the move. :)

And if Ezboard becomes worse, we'll have six months to look for a new place.

[LZeitgeist]

I don't trust EZBoard at *all*... if they would quit changing the rules and prices and crap every three months, I wouldn't feel that way, but I don't feel they are trustworthy AT ALL.

Therefore, I would vote to move elsewhere, BUT... I don't know the first dang thing about any of this Internet stuff - servers, html, programming, etc. - so I am the *worst* one to listen to for options as far as where to go or what to do once we get there.

All I can say is that a clean slate somewhere else has got to be an improvement over getting shafted time and time again by EZBoard.

Just my two cents...

[DrStranglove]

I posted on this thread almost three weeks ago. Back on page two, and no one ever even emailed me about it. Now this thread has been moved here after all this time. Though I feel for the situation, I am alittle miffed that this has got such a small responce, or even a nod toward this section,the RPF, of the forum. I thought the RPF took up almost 60% of the total trafic on the forum too.


DrMiffed

[Nupraptor]

Once we come to a conclusive decision, I'm sure that someone will get in touch with you regarding the issue of payment, Strangelove.

I moved the thread to this forum since it seemed that the vast majority of the RPF people weren't seeing it over in the OOC forum. I figured that the Roleplaying had their fair shot at it - Now it was time to try and get more responses from you people.

[Nupraptor]

Bumping the thread. If there's not going to be any more replies, I'll move this once again to the Mod/Admin forum and we'll try to come to a decision.

[Atreyu]

:: reads through thread again ::

Well if no one else is going to comment, I'll ask another question.

FMH stated that the server he was willing to provide was only temporary and couldn't be permanent. If that's the case, how long would SWFans be able to use it for? And if we should have to move away from the server eventually, are there any backup plans for hosting the board on other servers?

I really feel that any solution has to be medium to long term, especially considering Epsiode 2 is being released next year and it would be a major pain having to move again with Star Wars fans cramming the boards.

[Atreyu]

Oh, one other thing. You might want to just put this into Replica Props for a day or so just to ensure as many people as possible can at least see this thread. Let's face it, only a minority of RPFers cruise the OT forum.

[rayra]

Well, I commented a couple of weeks ago in another thread (in the Comm forum), I'll paste my remarks here:

PASTE BEGINS

As to the CSC Gold issue, I only notice a couple of RPF posters there, and might have an explanation why -
in recent months there's been several discussions, mostly harsh in tone, within the RPF about EZBoard's CSC reversals / bait-and-switch tactics regarding personal accounts. EZBoard's further tightening of the screws via intrusive advertising techniques has further distanced many in the RPF.
Further, as many in the RPF predate its location within SWFANS' universe, there is very low (apparent) loyalty to SWFANS, or particularly EZBoard.
Many times the issues of abandoning EZBoard have been raised, but no workable solution proposed (to date).
Speaking for myself, and as someone who feels abused by the changing guidelines for CSC personal membership (which I am a part of), if I could receive or even trust some guarantee of a steady-state membership plan AND COSTS, I would be willing to help pay the freight.
As it stands now, all I've seen information / evidence of is EZBoard's increasingly aggressive efforts against their own membership / users to generate an ever-increasing revenue stream.

PASTE ENDS

Issues remain re bandwidth, ownership and support of new server, type of software to use, migration, etc.

Playing Devil's Advocate: not sure the forum being 'owned'/hosted by a single member is a good idea, too much power, too much temptation, too much risk - one good fight and it's blown up.
[DEVIL /OFF]

as for paying for Gold: I don't know. Certainly there are a few members who could contribute substantially, just as there are very many who either can't pay anything, or won't. Same dilemma applies to a private server - how to ensure everyone carries their own weight?
also re paying for Gold: I personally have no trust / faith in ezboard to not change the basic groundrules AGAIN. I'm a CSC member, and my renewal is coming up, and well, f'em.

as for not going Gold: we lose access to regular backups? my understanding is that there are programs / utilities for downloading the whole contents of a website, which we (whomever) could use instead. Not convenient, but doable.
Also, we'd lose the ability to go over 100 posts in a thread? maybe not good for role-players, but considering how few legit threads on the RPF go over 100, vs. the number of FLAME wars that go that high, well, good (that we won't be able to go over 100 posts)

popups. ?? don't have a clue.

[jediscout]

Ditto. Don't feel good about sending $$ to EZBoard since they've so frequently changed their minds about 'what counts' when we've paid.

Don't want to invest in EZBoard only to discover a few months later that my funds no longer are worth anything, and I'll have to pay more and again.

*

If we made this a 'pay to visit' site--charging everyone to join, we'll lose our younger folk who can't afford it, our struggling folk who can't afford it--many of our community would be cut out. I wouldn't be happy with that.

*

It'll take initiative to change over to a totally new location/host. And if we do it, we should do it once. A temporary home will only cause confusion. But we'd need realistic ranges for how much it will cost to keep it afloat.

Once you involve money, it's a whole new game. Especially since we've all been spun in circles by EZBoard's changing payment rules...

[hydin]

the only advice i can think of, is if we move, just moving to a newsgroup, like alt.binaries.prop.replica and have sub groups of starwars/aliens/etc. as far as the role playing people, same thing, i guess. i havent frequented the role playing area, so i have no clue how that works.

at least itd be free, if we could find a news server to make the groups, and make sure its carried by everyone <damn @home for getting rid of the divx groups>.

otherwise delphi, or something else. but im not up for giving ezbroke any more money.
chris

[Nupraptor]

IMHO, a newsgroup wouldn't be a very good solution. Among other things, not many people are familiar with how to use them. Also, (to the best of my knowledge) there is no way to moderate them. Large problem there.

I agree that giving one person too much power by allowing them to essentially own the board is sort of asking for trouble. But if someone has to host it - as is the case with most non-EZboard forums - then it's somewhat inevitable.

Perhaps I mis-read what FMH offered, but I don't recall him mentioning that it was temporary. I'll need to go back and re-read his post (I'm technically working right now, so that'll have to wait ;) ). If not, myself and one of my fellow roleplayers (also a good friend of mine, IRL) were willing to purchase a license with vBulletin and see to the actual hosting of the board.

However, I fully understand your concerns about one or two individuals having that kind of say over everything, so I'm racking my brains to come up with another solution that will make everyone comfortable.

[Atreyu]

Nup, this is what FMH said:


I have bandwidth and I have 10Gb+ on a server AND I have the excuse to use it. I need to build a forum and then test for work purposes, thence this can sit alongside. It can't be a permanent home but for testing and programming it will do well.
To me that reads as though the server FMH can offer can only be a temporary solution, but I could be wrong. :)

If you want to move to a seperate server with vBulletin (an excellent piece of software), then I'll definitely give it the thumbs up.

[philippes]

Get YaBB and then host it here:

www.liquidweb.com (http://www.liquidweb.com)

I've been using this host for over 2 years and am very pleased. We will be required to solicit funds every once in a while, as the yearly cost is about $300.00. This would probably be the cheapest and most effective way to go.

EZBoard is way too expensive. Besides, as others have said, they can change their pricing structure at whim.

Phil

[Nupraptor]

IMPORTANT:

I just had a look at vBulletin's pricing information. I'll copy-paste it here.

--

"Owned License - $160

An owned license grants you the right to run on one web server and one web site for each license purchased for an unlimited time. Each license may power one instance of vBulletin on one domain. Included in this package is one year's access to the member area, where you can download updated versions of the software. If you require access to the member area after the year has elapsed, you can renew your access for $30 per year."

--

Now, correct if I misread that (it's still early in the morning here :p ), but that would be a one-time fee of $160 which includes hosting. Again, I could be mis-interpreting this. Even as we speak, I'm e-mailing them to inquire further. vBulletin is not only a very good BBS, but it's looking to be the cheapest and most reliable solution. While YaBB is another of the considerations, I myself haven't had any experience with them.

If it turns out that it doesn't include hosting, then purchasing a domain from liquidweb sounds like a good idea to me.

[LZeitgeist]

Excellent - keep up the good work!!

Thanks very much for investing your time and efforts like this to keep us going... and thanks to Dr.Stranglove and others I may have missed who have said they're willing to help out money-wise...

[Nupraptor]

When we come to a final decision, we'll start to talk about working out payment methods. Ultimately, I do think that it's going to have to be a single person who pays for the board and hosting (unless they both can be paid for via paypal or something similar). Maybe we can see about having other people sending contributions to the person who pays for it, after its been purchased? It's about the only thing I can think of.

Also, re-reading the information on their site, I'm now certain that it does not include hosting: My apologies for the misunderstanding. But I'm currently investigating other budget-friendly hosting services (of which liquidweb has been noted - thanks).

Update ~ Liquidweb looks like a very sounds solution. They pricing is roughly $150 a year for a standard account, and this includes 10GB's transfer per month, which should be more than enough. Also, very important: You can import threads from EZboard to a vBulletin board! That means that nothing here has to be lost!

[Juniper Obelisk]

Umm.. Gitane, too lazy to change names..

The only thing I don't like about changing servers, even though I'm all for moving away from EzBoard, is that with RPers, we have so many groups and boards and multiple characters that a fair amount of people couldn't afford to each fork over $160. I know people can simply link from another system, but that would mean that people would be leaping back and forth from systems.

Another question I have is.. Is: not owning a board, but just creating an account, how much would it cost? I have several characters I'm planning to make active, and I'd rather not lose any of them. But, I can't even afford to toss in money with no source of income and being too young to get a job. :|

I'm just asking from a roleplayer's point of view, because, as I said, I'd rather eat rancid meat than stay with EzBoard, but there are a few factors to think of..

[jediscout]

How ironic that today, EZBoard is running so s l o w l y that I can barely access it. Took 20 minutes and 3 restarts to get this far...

Will I be able to post? Let's see...

[Nupraptor]

The only thing I don't like about changing servers, even though I'm all for moving away from EzBoard, is that with RPers, we have so many groups and boards and multiple characters that a fair amount of people couldn't afford to each fork over $160Not every person has to fork over that amount. That's a one time cost for the entire board. There's a great deal less emphasis placed on individual boards, with around 50 members each, than there is towards SWFans, with over 5,000 members. I'm afraid that there's just no other BBS, to my knowledge, that would allow us to properly host this board and the 100+ other associated boards without forking over a great deal of money.
not owning a board, but just creating an account, how much would it cost? I have several characters I'm planning to make active, and I'd rather not lose any of them. But, I can't even afford to toss in money with no source of income and being too young to get a job.Registering to post at a vBulletin board is completely free.

[Jeseth Cloak]

Well, while I can't purchase one of those boards right now, in a few months if and when SWFans.net moves to one of these hosted boards, I will most definately purchase a vBulletin board for TBH if I am satsified with the results of the move, and I'm sure that there is at least one person in every group who would be willing to purchase a board and even pay hosting. It would actually in my opinion be a very good thing. Stable groups that are well formed will be around and groups that aren't won't (at least in the RP world). So it will keep the community concentrated and united... but hey, then again, I could be wrong...

[Morgan Evanar]

I've seen some MASSIVE, I repeat MASSIVE vBulletin boards, namely the ones hosted by Gamespy. Mind you, they have gobs of bandwidth, but I don't understand why we couldn't host almost all of the associated boards too. (for the roleplayers).

The only potential issue i can really see is one of trust between the main admins, and those that maintain the groups but provided we maintain Ogre and someone else, I don't think that could be as much of an issue. I also don't know how vBulletin handles that.

The other good thing about that is you wouldn't need account redundancy, you could just register once and be done with it.

[Nupraptor]

Yeah, I considered the idea of hosting all the seperate groups, but that presents several problems. One being that any admin would have access to every locked forum. Two being that Admins from individual groups could then have access to SWFans. Three being that there would have to be new forums created every time someone wanted to make a new group. The list goes on. :/

[Atreyu]

... not to mention that you're only talking about Roleplaying. What about boards linked to SWFans from the other sections such as Replica Props and General? If you start hosting Roleplaying boards others may want similar offers for the other sections as well. :/

[rayra]

You want to see a massive installation of vBulletin, go check out www.hardforum.com/ (http://www.hardforum.com/) - it's a PC / computer hardware board - I've only been lurking there for a few weeks, but haven't seen anyone bitching about the vBulletin software itself...

[Atreyu]

Another suggestion:

If we move to our own board on a seperate host, maybe the admins can put a simple ad banner up the top of the forums like TFN (not pop-ups, just a banner). It might not be much, but considering the large number of people saying they'd like to help but can't pay, it might provide a nice alternative to help bring in a little bit of cash.

Every little bit helps. :)

[Atreyu]

You want to see a massive installation of vBulletin, go check out www.hardforum.com/ - it's a PC / computer hardware board

:eek:

If vBulletin can handle their traffic, we shouldn't have anything to worry about if SWFans took on the same software.

:: starts packing bags ::

[rayra]

Disagree on the Ad Banner - it's the 'foot in the door' for some of the same issues we have here (with EZ Board).

I think we either get enough money up front, to set things up for a year+, or make it fee-based up front (c'mon $1US per person won't break anybody). But floating banner ads, or any other effort involving money coming from anywhere but the posters just puts us on the same path as ezboard.
I myself don't have any problem with paying my own way, and even a little bit more for the 'general fund'.
You want to post, you pay $1 when you create an account.
Admittedly cumbersome with most folks not having e-cash.
(shrug) enough people kick in $20-100, and it would be 'free' to the rest, anyway.

Yeah, same reaction here, to the Hard Forum - with many forum post counts in the 100,000+ range, the 'main' forum over 600,000, and 500 users online (at the time of this writing), sure looks like it will handle our traffic.

Anyone else have other forum examples / software packages examples to look at?

[Nupraptor]

If we move to our own board on a seperate host, maybe the admins can put a simple ad banner up the top of the forums like TFN (not pop-ups, just a banner).I'd rather pay for everything out of my own pocket than have banner ads on the board. :)

What I'm considering is setting up a Pay Pal account that will allow everyone who said that they'd be willing to donate money to do so. The only problem therein is that everyone would be sending their money to a single individual (who would then pay for everything via Credit Card, presumably), which may make them feel uncomfortable.

[Atreyu]

Well fine - DON'T put banner ads up! See if I care! :p

Seriously, it was just an idea for people like me who are unable to pay. We click the banner a few times each day and raise a few cents. ;)

But if you don't want any ads, I don' think anyone is going to complain. :)

[Nupraptor]

I think I'm going to get in touch with the people over at [H]ard|OCP and ask them what service they use to host their board, because it's blazing fast.

[DrStranglove]

but I am over it now. I agree with Ryra, and I can still put up the $700 to keep the board safe for a few months. Iwould rather do that than see this board die. By the way, how much does a server cost? I could also be the one to take the payments and write the check, if need be. A safe way to do this would also be to have two members, trusted ones, get a joint account set up to accept and pay for the service. I would recomend Phil S as another trusted member.....end of ramble.....


DrS
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DrStranglove/files/Jillians%20Girls/StacyCameraLove2.jpg
"There is a difference between pornography and art. Mostly it's in the price tag..." KerrAvon

[hydin]

if paying some money out makes me have access to all this boards fun and propping <minus the flame wars obviously> then im up for it. i cant put out a lot, but i can donate at least what i did for ezbroke. it might not be much, but if we get the people who were community members here to fork over the same amount <willingly, like me> for a one time setup/helping pay bandwidth/etc friendly fee, we should have a pretty good "community chest" so to speak.

i dont mind moving, i just mind moving when the place we move to isnt figured out yet, and may be more troublesome than its worth. im glad we are all sitting back and thinking this out, as opposed to leaping up and hauling ass.

id like to save some of the forums we have here, and a ton of the threads <archived stuff>, and having free accounts would be a bonus.

keep the good ideas rolling people
chris

[xwing15]

I would be more than happy to donate whatever is fair to keep this, or any other board going. $10 a month sound OK? Just as long as it's not one of those yahoo abominations. :)

Come on guys (and girls). After all the flaming, maybe we could all come together for a common cause for once. This is important.

[Nupraptor]

First off, let me thanks everyone who's offered to help pay for the new board and hosting. It's much appreciated. :) Again, we'll have to wait until there is a final decision about exactly what we're doing before accepting money.

To address hydin's concerns: Yes, if we move to vBulletin, we should be able to keep not only all the forums that we have here, but all the threads as well. This should ensure that the move goes smoothly. :)

To talk money for a moment: All told, it's not going to be that expensive. The initial cost is going to be around $300, and then it'll be $150 for every year after the first. This isn't too bad at all, especially when compared to the bi-yearly cost of a CSC program. I'm going to work on getting the ball rolling when I get home from work today, and I'll keep you guys updated.

[Lady DeVille]

*whew* I finally have read the 3rd page. It took a lot of guts to get back into this thread, but I decided that it would be bad if everyone decided to move and I got left behind. Wouldn't that suck!?

Okay, just wanted to let everyone know I'm paying attention. :) Also, when we decided that we are really moving, I liked the idea of having a joint account set up...Maybe someone from the RP forum and from the RPF ...

That way we don't have to worry about someone taking the money and jumping ship. :) Not that anyone would..of course... And I'm all for the move! Lets go! (after we figure everything out, of course.)

[rayra]

cruising the hardforum some more, noticed they have over 5000 threads just in their main discussion forum ('Gen'l Mayhem') (and even more amazing, that's in only 12days!! - we thought we had a turnover problem??)

[ezboard]

Why don't you guys just use the community chest feature to collect the funds you need?

Also, I'm interested in knowing what problems you guys are having and if we can help.

[LZeitgeist]

Because after we use the Community Chest feature to pay off *this* six month period, how do we know that "The Rules" aren't going to change on us again in a few months? That prices aren't going to go through the roof AGAIN?

You're expecting waaaaay too much money for the services you offer here. There are too many other alternatives, as people here are discovering.

[ezboard]

Actually, price for CSC GOLD went DOWN from what it started.

I think you will discover that after you pay for hosting fees and software, it will be more than what you'll pay at ezboard, but have to deal with all technical issues yourself.

The CSC GOLD price covers all costs, CSC BLUE was advertising dependant, and that is why it had to be removed.

[Nupraptor]

Why don't you guys just use the community chest feature to collect the funds you need? Because we need somewhere in the neighborhood of $2,000 for a full year. And the general consensus is that your service is quickly degrading in quality and simply not worth it.
Also, I'm interested in knowing what problems you guys are having and if we can help.How about the fact that we had an entire board deleted and your response was "Sorry, we can't help you"?
I think you will discover that after you pay for hosting fees and software, it will be more than what you'll pay at ezboardWrong: I've been doing my homework.

I already stated how much it would cost to pay for CSC Gold for an entire year. The one-time fee for a vBulletin License is $160 and the cost for one year of hosting with Tera-Byte is $100. That comes out to a fraction of the cost for CSC Gold. And then it's only $100 for every year after the first.

vBulletin is a much more powerful and reliable piece of software. Tera-Byte, from everything I've seen, is one of the best hosting services available. All in all, I'm failing to see any drawbacks. Moreover, they don't have the right to randomly disable otherwise useful features, change their pricing plans, or otherwise hassle their paying customers on a whim.

Many posters are absolutely fed up with the attitude we've been given by ezboard as a whole. You've all but forced us to pay for the supposedly optional CSC programs, promised us features that you've never delivered (and indeed, refuse to tell us the progress on), and have generally made it seem like you're purposefully trying to spite us.

[Atreyu]

Nup covered it. On an additional note ...


... but have to deal with all technical issues yourself.
That's one of the reasons why I'm looking forward to moving away. By getting it's own board and server, SWFans can now decide what technical features it does and doesn't want, and adjust in accordance with the needs of the board, without having to worry about things suddenly been pulled or changed on whim, as others have stated.

My bags are packed. I'm ready to move whenever the admins are ready.

[Darth Bill]

The precis version:

"We wanted to provide a free service but, realistically, it wasn't feasible. We need to change the format to a) make it profitable and b) make it user-friendly. We KNOW this is the THIRD time we've told you guys this, but we really, REALLY promise that we won't be changing the horses midstream again. REALLY.
Can we have your money now??"

It's getting TOO damn tiring to hear you guys KEEP saying "We need to change the structure again because, in our calculations, we forgot to carry the 2"... :rolleyes:



Russ

[Ogre Mal Pannis]

We are currently looking at spending 730 $ to renew our CSC Gold for only six months. With the options being explored, including hosting(with adequate bandwidth) and software, we are looking at spending approximately 360 $ for a full two years of service.

This service will not include any sudden, practically untested, and for the most part, un-welcomed upgrades. We will have our service guaranteed for at least two years for less than what you are offering for 6 months. Yes there may be some time required by the Administration staff once we get there and start doing it, but I hardly think the time required will add up to such a gaping spread in cost.

I believe you are wrong in what you have stated and am not really very satisfied with the way ezboard has conducted themselves over the past 8 to 9 months. Trying to make your service “better”, while only continuing to drive more and more of us away with sudden policy changes and cost structuring changes.

When CSC came out you presented us with options and we took the one that was the most fitting for our situation. Dozens of our members also made CSC purchases besides this board in support of what we thought at the time was a company and system we could rely on to treat us right and as valued customers.

We have not been treated as valued customers, in my opinion. I don’t think I am alone when I say that I feel you have treated us with a great deal of disrespect and practiced shady almost underhanded type tactics to force us to fix mistakes you may have made in monetary gain and or loss in your endeavor.

Survival is a difficult thing in a new business, and going from a free service to a paid one is a big step. We went from being users, to being customers, and expected to be treated as “customers”. That didn’t happen and the options we see before us now are leading us elsewhere.

I have seen you say what you just did in other topics, yet I haven’t seen any evidence of it yet. Prove to me that you are correct and I am wrong.

$360 for two years vs. $730 for six months?

[Darth Bill]

Or, to put it in the SIMPLEST terms available:

*ahem*

You're going to find that our support of ezboard and its policies has been arbitrarily deleted because you weren't subscribing to our "Treat The Customer Right" plan.
As you chose NOT to subscribe to the plan, we cannot do anything to change the situation.




Deja frickin' vu, huh?? ;) ;)


Russ

[rayra]

hey, 'ezboard', go do us a favor and spread the word amongst the ezboard staff that you've got a huge amount of unsatisfied users / customers here under swfans.net.

I'm curious, for anyone who can answer: What other large-ish boards are running on ezboard (a few thousand members / large forum count), and are they, also, expressing similar concerns & dissatisfaction??

[Nupraptor]

An Update on the move, by the way:

I am going to go ahead an purchase the vBulletin board and pay for one year of hosting with Tera-Byte this Friday. After that, it's going to take some time to set everything up and test it out. I don't expect that it will take much more than, say, a week.

I've also set up a Pay Pal account. Once the board is up and running, I'll post the details of how to donate money to the account for anyone who would like to contribute. Any money beyond the initial $260 or so that it will cost to set up the board will be used to pay for future hosting.

If there are any questions or comments, I'll do my best to answer them.

[rayra]

good news. it will take that kind of direct action, to move this along.

Everyone: I went looking, and for more info / perspective on the issues, the best / most relevant ezBoard support forum thread I could find, was this one:
login.ezboard.com/fezboar...=162.topic (http://login.ezboard.com/fezboardfrm32.showMessage?topicID=162.topic)

[ezboard]

I'm sorry to hear all this. I really do hope you guys find a suitable home that meets your needs. From my perspective, we get a ton of communities that come over to ezboard because they pay for "Unlimited Hosting" and end up either getting such slow performance or simply getting kicked off.

Our prices are tied to bandwidth and I assure you this community uses a lot more bandwidth than your typical message board.

The only plan we changed was CSC BLUE because it became a huge loss due to the ad market dropping to essentially nil.

Our gold pricing has only changed in a positive direction for our users.

ezboard's market is for those who do not want to worry about technology. If you have the resources and time to deal with those issues, then a non-hosted solution may work best for you.

We have numerous other large communities that are very happy with our service. I think it just depends on what the community needs are.

Good luck with whatever you do and if there is anything we can do to help, please let me know.

Vanchau Nguyen

[hiyata99]

"We have numerous other large communities that are very happy with our service. I think it just depends on what the community needs are."

Could you please supply us with some links to these other large communities?

[rayra]

BTW, ezboard, SciFi Geeks = Computer Nerds (generally / broadly speaking), we have a great many members with the technical knowledge.

We also, in the Replica Props forum have a huge tradition of doing things ourselves, when we can't find what we need, or feel we can do it better.

Still wish to see other large ezboard forums, really curious to know not only if they are experiencing problems, but also what potential solutions or workarounds they might be using.
I don't think our moving is a foregone conclusion right now, the only thing certain so far is the general dissatisfaction.

Any information we can gather on ezboard (# of forums, # of users, size of boards, and where we fit) would help this forum's membership better understand where we stand in the whole thing, and help us more accurately judge what should and should not be happening (service-wise).

[jt001]

We also, in the Replica Props forum have a huge tradition of doing things ourselves, when we can't find what we need, or feel we can do it better

Amen, brother rayra!



jt001

[WedgieAntilles]

Rayra, Roger that!

Adam

[rayra]

(thank you, thank you)

Just rooted around the ez Help areas, not finding any listing of forums (yet?), seeking info on the large forums (other than SWFANS - we're 5000+ registered users, ~90,000 posts).

Just posted a thread in the User Help areas, we'll see what turns up:
login.ezboard.com/fezboar...3982.topic (http://login.ezboard.com/fezboarduserhelp.showMessage?topicID=13982.topic)

[Nupraptor]

we get a ton of communities that come over to ezboard because they pay for "Unlimited Hosting" and end up either getting such slow performance or simply getting kicked off.That's because there simply is no such thing as "Unlimited" hosting. However, I think 30GB of transfer per month will suit our needs just fine.

We will be paying for one year of hosting at Tera-Byte. After that year is over, we'll evaluate our experiences with them and compare it to our experiences with EZboard. Somehow, I doubt that it will be in EZboard's favor.

[Atreyu]

I followed that thread Rayra linked to. Someone has posted a link to another big ezboard (probably bigger than ours):

pub13.ezboard.com/bthesafehouse (http://pub13.ezboard.com/bthesafehouse)

[Darth Bill]

An EverQuest board.... :/

NOT a surprise. :)



Russ

[Atreyu]

I don't think our moving is a foregone conclusion right now, the only thing certain so far is the general dissatisfaction.
Actually I think it is. Nup has already said he plans to buy the vBulletin software and pay Tera-Byte for hosting this Friday.

Even if it wasn't however, I can't see us remaining on ezboard. Not with a $1500 price tag waving over our heads every year. At the prices ezboard is charging we could support ourselves on our own server right up until Episode III and still have some left over.

On another note ...

Nup - are all you guys right for taking care of a move? Or do you need some help moving threads over and the like? I'm sure some of the techies on the forum might be willing to volunteer their time if/when we move in order to make the transition as smooth and quick as possible. I myself also start holidays next week so I might be able to lend some assistance as well.

[rayra]

Some of you Admins / Mods better post a new thread (something with IMMINENT FORUM MOVE in the title, discussing the imminent move, here in the RPF, as I suspect most of the membership isn't following this.

You also might want to solicit some feedback from members about the best time to move (week / month whatever).

That Everquest board has 20,000+ registered users, 4x what SWFANS has. I'm digging through it to find out if they've had similar problems to ours.

Wish ezboard would provide a large-forum list, we still have an unsolved mystery re this board's problems - are they isolated? fluke? common?

[Atreyu]

:: nods in agreement ::

I agree. We should also have a new announcement up the top of the board which is clearly visible to everyone. The title has to be big and bold - not the small yellow text like the current announcement which can easily be missed. Might pay to put a few tags above and below the announcement as well so that it stands out by itself.

If you decide to start a new thread you'll also want to give as much detail in the initial post as possible regarding the reasons behind the move, what the move will entail etc, to avoid possible "but why are we moving" posts from people who haven't been following this topic. Also a link to this thread is a must, so people can read for themselves how the ideas being proposed have developed.

It would probably pay to do this before any buying of board software and server space takes place. Whilst I doubt many are going to dispute the moving, it pays to just make sure. :)

[beaz]

My .02:

Going out on a limb here, so this may cost me my neck, but...

I know a few RPFers who are right now working very hard on a new home for the RPF and associated forums, and have been for several weeks. It's their gig, so I'll let them decide if they want to reveal their identities, but they're doing an amazing job, and I've been trying to pitch in in terms of writing some code to migrate the messages that we have stored in the RPF, the SSMF, and the archives, just in case we decide to move or ezboard goes belly-up, which judging by their constant flip-flopping on price and features, seems like a sure bet to me. They too are footing the bill for all of this (which costs less per month than cable, when you think about it). I realize too that there are legitimate concerns about who might own the keys to a new playground, and whether or not they will be reliable and play fair. Because of who these people are, I believe that most RPFers will have absolutely no problems trusting them implicitly from the get go.

Nothing against either SWFans.Net or all the roleplayers here, but I personally feel that if the RPF is to migrate away from ezboard, it deserves its own home. The RPF existed before ezboard and SWFans.Net, and its connection to SWFans.Net is a tenuous one at best, especially right now when it seems no one is at the helm of the SWFans.Net props pages any more. And there's really little reason why roleplayers and propers should be sharing bandwidth and the associated costs anyway. There is almost zero cross-pollination going on between the two groups, unless it's to figure out who's been fiddling with the board settings again!

Personally, like rayra, I think we do need to have an RPF specific discussion of this topic, and soon. I'll talk to the folks who are working so hard on the new, and I think vastly improved RPF, and see whether or not they feel ready to talk about it in a big way just yet.

[Nupraptor]

Atreyu: First off, thanks for the offer of help. If it looks like we're going to need help with the Technical Stuff, I'll be sure to drop you a line. Also, I was planning on making an official announcement about the move tomorrow, right before I paid for everything. Like I said, it's probably going to take at least a week to set everything up and make sure it's all going smoothly.

Beaz: Well, it was my intention to duplicate all of the forums over to the new board, and I don't see any harm in doing that right now. If the majority of the RPFers want to break away from SWFans (if I'm understanding you correctly), then it is, of course, their prerogative. However, I don't see a problem with keeping a Replica Props forum at the new SWFans Board.
And there's really little reason why roleplayers and propers should be sharing bandwidth and the associated costs anywayWell, you'll not hear any complaints out of me about the costs. If some of the RPFers want to donate cash to help with the move, that's fine. If none of them do, that's fine too. I volunteered to foot the bill because, in all honesty, I'm not doing anything better with my cash right now, and I want to do everything I can to make sure that the SWFans Forums continue to thrive.

[Atreyu]

In regards to whether or not we should have a Replica Props forum on SWFans if the RPF decides to move away, well you've got to remember that Brandon (BAlinger 15) originally set up the forum here in the first place in line with his Replica Props section on the homepage, the the RPF moved here afterward. So even if the RPF decides to get their own place, the homepage might still want its own dedicated forum for the topic.

I do agree with beaz about how the RPF is its own seperate community. I remember at times how their interests had to be juggled with the interests of the rest of board due to such a division of needs. Considering the size of this place, maybe it would be a good thing to let them have their own place, where they can manage their own rules and discussions, outside of the SWFans influence.

Of course, if some want to remain at SWFans then they would be more than welcome too. :)

[Vanchau]

what kind of problems have you guys been having?

i know you guys are on your way out ,but i'd be interested in knowing.

oh, here's a big board pub53.ezboard.com/bsurvivorsucks (http://pub53.ezboard.com/bsurvivorsucks)

i think this one during the day gets like 600+ users at the same time
citadel3.ezboard.com/bmiami20779 (http://citadel3.ezboard.com/bmiami20779)

again, its just preferences. doing upgrades on scripts is not easy, and everytime you get a new version you have to redo them. with ezboard it is all handled for you. for admins that don't want to deal with that, they use ezboard.

i think it depends on what kind of hosts you use and their prices. you may or may not be able to get pricing.

i know the safehouse uses about 3gig of transfer a day i think. some web hosts can't even support that.

Again, I hope you find a good home and maybe you'll check us out in a year. I think you'll be surprised at what you'll find. :)

[DrStranglove]

I could have swarn I posted this here once just a min ago....well here again;


Uhhhhhhhhh...Are we in trouble?



DrS
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DrStranglove/files/Jillians%20Girls/StacyCameraLove2.jpg
"There is a difference between pornography and art. Mostly it's in the price tag..." KerrAvon

[Atreyu]

Vanchau,

First off, thankyou for actually dropping the 'ezboard' guise and actually speaking like a normal person. I, for one, was starting to wonder whether or not you could actually say anything other than 'many people are coming back to ezboard' and 'we will continue to offer the best solutions' etc. Many of us were just getting a bit tired of the marketing blurbs. :)

In regards to the bandwith SWFans uses, yeah most of us figured it would be pretty high, based on what it would cost us to get CSC Gold. From what I've been able to gather from the hosts Nup is looking at, I believe we're looking at getting as much as 10-20 gig (maybe 30) of transfer. I think that should be quite enough to support this board for the time being.

Of course, you've got to remember that with Episode II coming out next May that the traffic here could very well double (or even triple) for the next year or so. If we remained here we could therefore be looking at CSC Gold prices going even higher for us.

As for problems we're encountering, well I think the biggest one was the actual cost of CSC Gold - $1500 or so for a year. Considering many on this board don't have much cash to throw around, to raise that amount of money would be a most difficult task. As it stands, getting software such as vBulletin and hosting it ourselves, whilst requiring more work on our own part to keep it running, is by far a much better alternative to remaing here. With vBulletin only requiring a one off payment, we would then only have to pay for the server to host the board.

There's also the problem of ezboard revoking support for accepted features, or restricting them to CSC only. Things like IFRAMES and the like that were used extensively on the Roleplaying board here. Many people hate things disappearing overnight with a quick explanantion a day later, with little or no warning beforehand. I know you've got a business to run and that you have to sacrifice things to remain profitable, but such actions really grate on our nerves.


I'm sure some other posters will post here sharing their thoughts, or at least to say how totally wrong I am :) , but that's my 2 cents on the situation.

[beaz]

what kind of problems have you guys been having?
Well for starters, one of our most popular forums, the one you're in right now, spent two months on the fritz in a big-time serious way two or three patches/upgrades ago. The original forum is still here (http://pub2.ezboard.com/fswvstitanicreplicaprops). We had to create an entirley new forum (this one) and up and move everything here to get away from the formatting problem. The whole forum almost left ezboard during that most trying time. The bug has since been fixed, but it took two months of nearly hourly requests for a forum "recache" in the help forums before that happened.

Then, honestly, there was the last time you visited us, Vanchau, several months ago after a well-known scammer and serial troll around these parts convinced you, somehow, that the people here were violating the TOU. Rather than contact the admins here to get a handle on what was actually happening, you posted a terse message that implied that if another individual violated the TOU you were simply going to shut down the entire community. As far as I know this sparked the first discussion about our alternatives to ezboard.

This discussion is now about the $1500 annual expense to keep this community on ezboard. Outrageous. Simply outrageous. This after many of us have already paid $7 apiece to be CSC users for six months. I know of no other service where one has to pay to subscribe (CSC User) and pay for the bandwidth that his favorite community consumes (CSC Gold Community). What's next? Pay per word? Pay per view? Sorry, ezboard is cool, but it's not that cool. And if you're not CSC, the popups are oppressive!

Finally there's the whole dotcom economy tanking, and clear evidence from all of this price/feature thrashing, and layoffs, and hand-wringing over lost pop-up revenue, that y'all might not figure out how to make ends meet. There's a very real fear, that ezboard will not be here tomorrow or the next day, no matter what you say. And the assumption is, when that happens, there will be no warning.

That's the honest view from here, anyway.

[rayra]

Beaz beat me to one of my primary concerns, the issue of the Terms Of Use, and capricious action.

The very nature of this forum lends itself to predation by scammers and other fringe-mentalities. The fact / idea that any one of these crooked types could send an email to you (Vanchau) and we could find our board closed / locked / vanished is reason enough in my eyes to leave, and leave NOW.
And the issue of destructive forum members deliberately attemping this board's shutdown.

I may be wrong, but it appears the RPG portion is generally a younger crowd / short on resources. That's not to say that most of the RPF (this forum) isn't broke, too (hey, it's an expensive hobby), but there is also a wide range of ages / economic means here, and the issue of a few / several hundred dollars is surmountable.

[a302nsyd]

Wow!

Great points, guys.

Since it seems as though EZBoard will be around for a while, I say we try to venture off on our own and save some cash and eliminate advertising, for good.

If we fail, we can always return to EZBoard.


I'm also for splitting off from the gaming community....as 30GB of bandwidth per month might not be enough for the both of us.

We have a semi-dedicated dual processor PIII-933 server w 2GB of memory running Linux and phpBB, which has been heavily modified to function like the current board's "look and feel", which means no learning curve :) It also has a few added features like unlimited threads (disk space will be the factor), along with site and individual database backups that any admin can run at any time (encrypted).

We are testing it now....IE works great, Netscape 4.78 is working the best it can, and Netscape 6.1 has a few "tab" issues that we're going to work on this weekend. We'll soon need a Mac user to help us with their perspective of it.

Beaz is writing code to copy/transfer all of the threads to our test board. Graphics for the buttons and banner still need to be done, but there's light at the end of the tunnel....:)

FREE TO USE - NO ADVERTISING
We don't have to use our setup, but it's going to be available, in case we all decide to move. Nikki and I used this opportunity to teach ourselves PHP. If we all do end up moving, all of the current mods and admins will stay the same on the new board.

That's all I have for now....prop on!
cdw

[moffeaton]

Well, I volunteer my Mac running IE 5 as a troubleshooter for you - just email me with info when you are ready! Thanks, Jason

[ezboard]

Thanks for your comments... I'll address each point separately.

IFRAMES - or other changes we had to make. The reason for these changes are solely due to hackers and spammers using these technologies in order to wreck havoc. This can occur with any software if the code is allowed. People were creating 1x1 pixel iframes and putting banner ads and popups, not to mention code that would make fake posts,etc. You can imagine the amount of resources it took for us to fix all these problems, not to mention the public relations nightmare it caused. People felt we were lying or cheating about ads and subscription services. We have never done any such thing, it was solely because of security issues like this.
We have a minimal staff here, and we were spending hours and hours fixing these problems instead of building features or doing normal customer service. That is why we needed to turn this off, if only to just give us some breathing room to deal with the everyday load of work.

TOU VIOLATIONS - I don't remember this, and it might have been someone on my staff that posted that. I don't really think we would ever shutdown the community unless we felt the entire community was dedicated toward spamming other boards. This community has been with ezboard for years and we all know it by name. There is no way it would ever get shutdown b/c of a few emails.

COST - Obviously, we think we offer the absolute best prices for a hosted solution. Because our hosted solution is so economical, we actually competed with the scripts. We realize that sometimes communities get to a certain size and they want to have more of a hands-on relationship with the technology and software. That is why we are going to be launching our script version soon (it will have seamless transition between ezboard hosted and ezboard script).

Remember there is a lot of things to consider in terms of costs.

Software costs - how much does the actual software cost to purchase?

Bandwidth/Server costs - how much does it physically cost to run the community? disk space, bandwidth, server costs

Time costs - how much more time will be spent maintaining the community? for example, if technical problems arise, who fixes those? what is the risk of being down? how important is that?

Customization/Upgrades - the biggest problem with scripts (and why I don't use them), is that any customizations are erased on upgrades. You'll have to recode all custom features everytime the company puts out a new baseline source.

In the end, the tradeoff is really dollars vs. peace of mind. ezboard hosted solution is for those who just want to manage a community, and not anything beyond it. When there is a problem, they call us versus having to deal with it themselves.

For this community it might make sense. Of course, we hope you guys will stay. There is a lot of history here. But, in the end, we really just care that these communities will exists and continue to exists as they are the future of online society.

Take care.

[rayra]

(ahhhhh)

Ready to test, with a PC (AMD Gig / IE 5.5 / ADSL) and a Mac (pre i-Anything / Netscape Comm 4.7 / 56k).

Just let me know where & when.

[ezboard]

Oops.. sorry the board that had a lot of members at the same time is this one

pub85.ezboard.com/binsidecarolina (http://pub85.ezboard.com/binsidecarolina)

[beaz]

http://www.mindspring.com/~beazuhma/images/ezboardTOU01.jpg

[ezboard]

That was a staffer doing his/her job. Usually when we get a TOU complaint like that we make a post.

In truth, I don't know of any communities that have gotten shut down because of this violation. Typically, we only shut down communities that violate legal laws (like hacking, piracy, porn,etc).

[LZeitgeist]

Staffer or not, it was someone acting under your authority, threatening to shut this board down without any mention or evident intention of contacting anyone here to find out the facts of the situation.

Bad move. Bad, bad move. Claiming you didn't know about it makes it (and you) look even worse.

[ezboard]

I don't understand the confusion here.

It is a standard policy and that post served as a warning. Obviously, if we were to take further action, there would be other contact and actions taken. It doesn't help our business to shut down boards.

Also, the fact that I don't know about it is a very good thing. We have over 700,000 communities on this network. If I was alerted everytime a community received a warning, my inbox would be even more filled than it usually is.

[Nupraptor]

EZboard: We've all heard the excuses for why you had to disable this, or why you had to change the pricing plan for that. If it were just one of these things - perhaps even two - we could live with it. But the longer we stay with you, the more we keep seeing of this nonsense.

Anyway... I'm home from work now, guys, and I'm going to see to getting the ball rolling within the hour. I'm also going to start making posts informing everyone of what's going on.

[Atreyu]

You might want to pull the Community Chest off the board for the time being. I haven't double checked but it looks like someone else has put money in since yesterday.

[beaz]

In truth, I don't know of any communities that have gotten shut down because of this violation. Typically, we only shut down communities that violate legal laws (like hacking, piracy, porn,etc).
Perhaps. But that's not what you (the collective "you") told us on May 8 when you essentially said "If an individual or two continue to violate the TOU then this entire community will be permanently closed." That threat seemed not only ludicrous but extremely scary to everyone who read it. And it wasn't scary because all of us were guilty of somehow violating the TOU, it was scary because we weren't! For what it's worth, maybe ezboard needs to come up with a standard way to convince individuals to comply with the TOU without threatening to arbitrarily nuke entire communities made up of thousands of people just because one or two might have violated the TOU, not that anyone actually checked. And instead of contacting the mods and admins you went straight to the board and caused a panic. Again, that was the first time I remember people seriously talking about and seeking out alternatives to ezboard.

The other shoe to drop was of course the elimination of CSC Blue. You still haven't responded to the queries about cost prevalent in this thread. It will cost this community $1500 a year to become CSC Gold. You've made being free so onerous with the pop-up and follow-round adverts, that we here are literally stuck between a rock and a hard place: go free and suffer the ads, no backups, little support, possible accidental deletion with no prospects for recovery, or ante up 1500 clams a year, every year, and that's the price after the latest deep "discount."

$1500? Half the energy at this board would have to be reinvested in semi-annual fund drives to glean $750 just to satisfy that requirement. How much fun would that be? Like one big, boring Jerry's kids telethon. Ugh. And this after many of us already pay $15 a year to be CSC users. Not bloody likely. Honestly, if that's what it costs to make sure you can keep your servers running, pay for the lease-line and your programmers, and make your house payment, well, sorry, but it's just too much. Sometimes less is more.

[rayra]

Seconding Beaz's comments / observations re the May 8th 'visit' and the scare it put through this place.

[LZeitgeist]

Had the "warning" mentioned that the next action would be to contact the Mods and Admins of the board to help solve the problem, no panic would have been felt. However, according to the "warning", the next action would be for the community to be shut down.

[ezboard]

TOU - we will correct the wording to make it more clear that boards do not get shutdown as easily as it might have sounded. it doesn't do us any good to shut down boards that are legit, we take careful measures to avoid doing so. however, the wording may be too aggresive so we will re-word it

FREE - advertising pays for the free product. there are not that many free hosts anymore. we are one of the few left and we will do whatever it takes to continue to have a free version. the number of ads are necessary to support the cost

Backups - backups are always free. You can make one at anytime. The restorals are $30 if you are NOT a csc board.

Hope this clears up some misinformation...

[rayra]

anyone else have anything to add?

How about RPF member's comments on an impending move?

[Darth Rane]

ezboard: We've all heard the rationalizations before. The point is that, by making constant changes, arbitrarily disallowing features, and doing countless other tiny things of this nature (no matter how justified your cause), you make people wary of your service. The fact that my "Nupraptor" account was just deleted for the third time today doesn't help my view of you at all.

In any case, the new board is set up and running like a champ. We're just making preparations for copying all the current threads over to the new board. After that, I'll post with the new URL of the board and everyone can start posting. :)

[rayra]

bump