Kenobi Grenade Color..Added how I weathered mine.

[gavidoc]

Months ago, a heated debate occured. Many people screamed that the grenade was black. Many yelled in response that it was brown. A few (myself included) said it was a natural bluish/grey of steel.

Quickly, the "Blackist" went by the wayside. Then Cliff posted fantastic pictures of his new weathered grenade supporting the brown theory.

The blue/grey theory seemed lost forever in the pit of many lost prop beliefs and theories.

Until today. Yes, I'm here. Back in force. And this time with more then just info I learned in school that confuses almost everyone who reads it (myself included).

That info, the ins and outs of color, how it is affected by light, conditions, if the item in question is inside or outside, what it is made of and so on and so forth was extremely long winded and very technical..

This time, I got PICS! Yes, the one thing that made me go AAAAGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!! those many moons ago is now finally a reality and at the ready to resurrect the blue/grey theory from the fiery ashes.

So, without a do, here we go.

My belief, the grenade was indeed rusty as believed by the "Brownists". One large piece of evidence for the "Brownists" were the awesome photos Cliff posted. An example is next.

http://63.70.30.51/images/sw/a302nsyd_owksaber_new.jpg

As you can see, the grenade is brown in this shot. So, here is my new grenade (replica of one actually) and it looks brown.

http://gavidoc1.virtualave.net/images/sabre/kenobianh/kenobigrenade02.jpg

Yep, it looks brown which means that I must be a "Brownist". Nope.

One thing the "Brownist" never were able to answer (if they did, I missed it) was this photo.

http://www.romansempireproductions.com/OB1Screws2.jpg

Why does the grenade have a blue/grey look to it? Doesn't make sense. Thus the "Bluegreyist" party was formed. I think Paul N and myself were the only 2 actually. :lol:

Paul N and I believed the grenade wasn't changed in anyway. No paint added. Nothing. Just natural weathering had occured. Considering the thing was over 50 yrs old when ANH was made, that was very possible.

Of course, the thing would rust. It was iron after all. But iron has a good blue/grey look to it when new that darkens over the years from oils and so on and so forth.

The belief of the "Bluegreyists" was that the grenade was just rusty. This would explain the look of the thing being brown in some shots and blue/grey in others.

So, here is now my grenade with the blue/grey/rusty look. Nothing done to it at all. Same grenade as above. Same weathering. Slightly different angles to show more blue all the way to more brown.

http://gavidoc1.virtualave.net/images/sabre/kenobianh/kenobiblue01.jpg
http://gavidoc1.virtualave.net/images/sabre/kenobianh/kenobiblue02.jpg
http://gavidoc1.virtualave.net/images/sabre/kenobianh/kenobiblue03.jpg

So, I call upon all the "Brownists" in our midsts to post their views and beliefs. I also call upon any "Bluegreyists" who are still alive ;) to come to my support before the "Brownists" blow the theory out of the water again and it never comes back from nevermore.

[Force Commander]

Well, I guess I am a "Brownist." It has been my opinion from the start that the grenade was not painted, was not weathered, was not dressed up. It didn't seem likely, not consdering the lack of paint and or weathering on the other sabres. (One might point to the emmiter for weathering, but who's to say that item(s) was not that way when "found.") Granted, it seems the OB1 sabre was made by a different effects house, but they still followed the other guidelines, found parts, flash parts, possibly even the "wiper" strips.... While I don't have and OB1...yet, I would surely like it to be au natural on the grip, not painted.

My 2 cents.

[gavidoc]

Force Commander and all,

My grenade is not painted. I aged it naturally with some assistance. The colors you see on mine are rust and quickly aged steel.

[Force Commander]

Exactly, the only weathering I would want would be the natural weathering, the "rust" look as it were.

[Pat Za Ponor]

Cool, looks right on to me Gavidoc. I also believed in the blue/greyish theory back then in the debate. But I coudn't prove anything because I don't know enough about lights, saturation, hue etc.
All I can say now is that I think your grenade looks great.

[FunkyJedi]

Uh...I just like it black.
Besides, if it rusts, won't the aging process be swiftly speeded up?
Hey, guys...as much as I spent on this freaking saber, I'm takin' that sucker to the grave!!!! When they open my casket in 1000 years, someone's gonna say, "Hey! It's an OWK ANH Saber...and it's mint!" :lol:

[Darth Bill]

When they open your casket in 1000 years, there's going to be a VERY SPECIFIC reason they'll be calling you 'FUNKYjedi'...

;) :lol:




Russ

[Quest100]

Gavidoc, that is beautiful! :eek:

DB: :lol:

-Jon

[mgoob]

Gavidoc's version seems to be an offshoot of the "Brownist" theory, since yours has brown also.

Cliff's look's as is if the grenade has been sitting in the elements longer. I immediately liked his version, and your version seems to take it one step further.

I was going to copy Cliff's style on my OWK ANH, but I believe I'll copy your style (no offense to Cliff) because there is more reason to believe that the blue paint would have worn off, then rusted a bit as seen in the color photo you posted; the frame grab clearly shows different colors. I'll go with a bit of the brown color inbetween the ridges.

And where did you find those transistors you used?

[paul n]

Brother Gav' I love the way that grenade looks! My original belief that the grenade was blue came from Parts of Star Wars where they posted that dummy grenades were painted blue. The more I looked at picks of the saber (especialy the one on Parts of'.. that showed a real grenade) the more that thought it wasn't painted at all. I have one of the brass grenade replicas and just used Permablue ( I "Blued" it :) )to age it a bit and went over it with some steel wool to give it that "cleaned up for a museum" look. I don't have any pic of it at the moment since the sabers completion has been stalled due to GR's disapearance (I don't have a clamp) and I think it's bad luck to show a prop before it's done ;)

[obee1]

I guess you could say i am a "naturalist". My saber is not rusted or painted or anything else. It is a naturally aged
No. 3 MK I grenade. Aged naturally like a fine wine. This picture actually shows up a little darker than it really is. I desperately need to get some nice shots of this saber, but I am currently working on revising the transistors right now.

http://members.home.net/obi1knobi/pics/OWK_ANH_saber2.jpg

[Dante8]

I must say that Cliff converted me to brownist... that's how my saber is painted. The more I look at reference pics, the more I'm leaning toward this naturalist view. The only difference I'd have to make to my saber as it stands now is to darken in the raised portions of the grenade, but for right now I'm pretty darn content with my brownist saber. Good thread, it's nice to see some civil debate. :)

[PropReplicator]

So, how do I go about converting my black grenade into a brown or blue/black/brown grenade? Your pics look fantastic, and I want to improve mine.:) What color brown? Acrylics or other?

[gavidoc]

Mgoob,

I guess you could say that the "Bluegreyists" were those that believed the grenade had its "naturalist" look. So, the "naturalists" and the Bluegreyists" are the same group.

The "Brownists" group leaned more towards an all rusty brown grenade. Whether it be painting or just extreme weathering that had occured to it.

The "Naturalists" as I'll call us now (has a cooler ring to it) feel that the "Brownists" were adding too much brown and not enough "natural" feel to the grenade.

By adding too much brown IMO, I personally felt the "Brownists" were overdoing it in a way. Too much rusty look to it (though they did have evidence to support their theory). Just that the color photo above wasn't being addressed by the "Brownists" which is the evidence that supports the "Naturalists."

:lol: I'm making it sound like a couple of political parties having at it and trying to blow holes in each others agendas. All's for fun guys. ;)

So, in a nutshell.

"Blackists" believe the grenade was black.
"Brownists" believe the grenade is brown.
"Naturalists/Bluegreyists" believe the grenade wasn't tampered with. Be it paint that was already on it, or no paint that was on it. The rusting hulk was slapped into Alec's hands and he was told to wave it aorund.

To make things even more complicated, the "Naturalists" group could be split up even more into the "Paintists" and the "Non-Paintists." Kinda like the left wings and the right wings.

I used to be a "Paintist Naturalist" but am now a "Non-Paintist Naturalist."

In regards to the transitors, I made them. Nothig special. Just some machined aluminum that i added some grooves to to simulate the writing.

PR,

I really don't know how to go about painting the grenade to look like what I have above. I didn't paint mine. Paul N might be able to help you.

And again, to show that the color scheme I have does match the Mech. photo:

http://gavidoc1.virtualave.net/images/sabre/kenobianh/mechacompare01.jpg

Lighting isn't quite as good (cloudy day yesterday and the digital camera I use sucks) but you get the idea.

[Draco Lawgiver]

Looks great Gav, but how do we know there weren't several versions of this saber?

[Mara Jades Father]

Why does this have to be a "color" issue?

Can't we all just get along?

[Dewy888]

Now here's what I have to say! I'm neither a brownist or blackist and for that matter a bluest in fact I go with the crowd so I trust you guys will get to the bottom of this for me!! ;) :)

[gavidoc]

Draco,

Due to the complexity of the sabre, the number of parts, and the difficulty in finding some parts (I doubt MK 1 grenades were readily available in the 70's) that they had 1 hero sabre.

[Dann]

Well, it looks good to me!

[lonepigeon]

Looks great, so how was this weathering achieved?
I got the weathered grenade replica for Collector's Brass, but I'd like to darken up the brass and frag body like that.

I still don't agree with the chrome tape, but it looks cool nonetheless.

[a302nsyd]

Don't feel bad guys, I like the "natural" way too, I'm just not talented enough to achieve the desired effect.

So, John, spill the beans (if you haven't already) and help us to imitate your weathering method....PLEASE???


cdw

[Gytheran]

I don't agree on the tape or the D-Ring, but you did one HELL of a job weathering the grenade. I was going to copy Cliff's look until I saw that (Sorry Cliff :) ). You've turned me into a "Natrualist." .... ok ok enough A$$kissing... are you going to tell us your secret or not? :)

[gavidoc]

Gytheran,

I was having a hard time finding a chromed D-ring for the sabre when I took the photos. The poor quality one that was on there has been replaced with the correct kind since that photo.

Ok, weathering time.

*************WARNING*****************

Acidic solutions are used in this process and I am not responsible for misuse of the products. Read all warnings before using the products.

******************************************

I used a total of 4 things.

Birchwood Casey's Perma Blue
Birchwood Casey's Brass Black
Water
Solder flux

1. First thing I did was to put watered down solder all over the grenade and the stem.

2. Heated it up till the solder disappeared and left that sticky residue.

3. Dipped both the grenade and the stem in water and set the grenade in front of a fan till rust formed.

4. Cleaned both parts with steel wool to remove the solder residue and some rust on the grenade.

5. Repeated step 3 three more times.

6. After final grenade dipping, I cleaned it with a towel to remove rust residue.

7. Using Perma Blue (don't use the degreaser or the rust remover it says to use in the directions) on the uncleaned grenade to give it an uneven finish. Using Q-tips, I dabbed it on. Not too heavy, just enough to darken the color of the steel.

8. Rinsed with water and let air dry.

9. Rubbed the steel with a clean towel. This helps fade teh bluing.

10. Used Brass Black on the stem. Repeat step 7 on the stem using Brass Black.

11. Rinsed the brass in water.

12. Dried with towel. IF done correctly, the brass would have aged to an antiqued finish and not turned black.


Please keep in mind that I did this to a steel grenade. It should work a real grenade since it is Iron. I don't know how the bluing will work on the iron though. Never tried it.

The same effect will not work on an aluminum grenade but might for a brass one that has already been weathered. Instead of using the Perma BLue on the grenade though, use the Brass Black. Perhaps in a diluted solution so that it isn't as strong and you can keep some of the browned look to the grenade. Just a suggestion though don't take me to the bank on it.

Micromark sells some weathering paints that might be of assistance to those of you with aluminum grenades. I haven't used them but a friend has and it does look really good if done correctly.

www.dxmarket.com/micromark/products/82132.html (http://www.dxmarket.com/micromark/products/82132.html)

[obiwan shinobi]

thanks for the info Gav

I'm in the same boat as Chris - I'm picking up the brass grenade and was wondering whether it's better to get the weathered version or the pristine one - from what you have suggested, it sounds like I'm better off getting the former and weathering it some more (?)

in any event, I can't wait to get started!