Credit Standard

[Valk Twilight]

Shouldnt there be a way to track money around here? Becuase really, i see alot of claims about having alot of money but no real proof. Say, requests to buy SD sized ships, I think not, thats ALOT of money, a frieghter would be more realistic but still be alot of money. If anyone can see where im going with this please respond....

[Brant Phallen]

Each person has a history, and for most it would be reasonable for them to have the amount.

[Valk Twilight]

Yes, but still. I have a history in RL too, didnt stop me from bankrupting myself one day buying $1000 in clothes. There should be a set amount available in the market IC as there is OOC

[Reysa Sashara]

Grabs the newbie, bangs him on the head with a fish, knocking his out and drags him off the stage;;

[Valk Twilight]

Im no newbie, odds are ive been here longer than you

[Nupraptor]

:: From out of the shadows, an abnormally large trout swings through the air. ::

TTTTTTTThhhhhhhhhhhhwwwwwwWWWWWWWuuuuuuuunnnKKKKK

:: The fish strikes the side of of Reysa's head with a wet, sickening sound, splashing a bit of muck about. Reysa then proceeds to see what the ground looks like from 50 feet up. ::

"Smacking people with fish is my routine."

<table border=1 cellpadding=3 bgcolor=#000000 bordercolor=#FF0000><tr><td>******** height=80 width=400 frameborder="0" bordercolor="#000000" src="http://nupraptor.clanhappy.com/quotes.html">***********</td></tr></table>

[Reysa Sashara]

i see, but you make wild comments....this is RP,....RP=Fanatacy....we escape RL to come here....we have money problems in RL we dont need it here also...its a game...not something we need to worry about...not only that..when you play a playstsation game do you worry where they got that kind of tank from...or that kind of million doller gun??? no....weplay that game and we enjoy it....when we finish we go back to our meny problems in our RL....try to seperate RL with RP my friend

[Valk Twilight]

[i]Considers wacking someone with a frying pan, but doesnt want to suffer the consequnces of that moves originator. But feels quite safe bringing out a force yoyo and bopin Reysa in the head a few times

[Reysa Sashara]

all i am saying is i and many other ppl have money problems and such, i dont wanna have it here aswell....

::Throws a ice cream cone at the man splattering on his face then looks at trout wacker...and backs off::

[Valk Twilight]

Well, there are technically many jobs here at SWFans as well, Theres the new republic which jedi used to work for to get by for a living, The Empire, which pays well. Theres corporations like Intek, Blastech, other such things, you can become an outlaw, work for sanis, ect....

[Sanis Prent]

Well, it goes mainly into user prerogative. There really isn't a set standard for credits here, and I doubt there ever will be. Those who play Sith or Jedi are RPing the more mystic and philosophical things, and thus trying to nitpick how much to pay for an imaginary toothbrush is not their cup of tea.

However, I'm not saying that penny-pinching shouldn't be in RP. Its one of my favorite character situations. I am actually doing a RP where Sanis begins to build a fledgling mafia of sorts. He has some money to work with, but not really the amount needed to do what needs to be done. I incorporate bank accounts, interest, payoffs, middle-men, buyouts, etc all into my RPs. It makes for a different direction and angle of roleplay...and is very much something I enjoy.

But dif'rent strokes for dif'rent folks. I don't see the need for a standardized monetary system. If a little common sense is used here and there....your average dewback herder knows he can't buy an imperial warship by bustin his piggybank open.

[Jeseth Cloak]

I try to think realistically when I RP out the amount of money my characters have.


Example: If Jeseth needs a ship, or a large amount of money, he just takes it from the wealthiest person he can afford to manipulate or murder. Most of what I take from them though is short lived.

In the case of some of my other characters with less to fall back on (ie, Jerred), I resort to more intricate forms of robbery and black mail. :) It's not really hard to take that stuff into account... And in my opinion it also makes you a better roleplayer if you do.

[Nupraptor]

Don't forget that Jedi and Sith, although not completely absolved of the necessity, are somewhat less dependant on money on a day-to-day basis. And I'm sure that they don't need to state where they procured small sums of credits for such things as buying their lunch. As Sanis said: All it takes is a little common sense.

However (you knew there was a 'but' in there, didn't you? :) ):

I think that organizations should be able to justify where they get their funds from for things like the building of fleets. I still have trouble swallowing the concept that anyone can just pump out ISDs by the dozens.

[Jeseth Cloak]

You know, it would probably be a good idea to set a limit on the ammount of capital ships a group can have based on how many planets they control. For example, one planet can support 15 Capital Ships. I know a lot of people would say "That's too much!!" but consider that right now, if you devided up the number of capital ships present in each major fleet, you have roughly 30 or even 40 ships per planet held. It's not really a crazy concept and not hard to pull off either. If someone needs to check on it, it's also fairly easy. It also would make most Fleet based battles fair while giving an insentive to conquer planets.

[Force Master Hunter]

Nahhhh.... a good resource limiting idea! I must be at the wrong board this morning!!!

Like to say more Jeseth? I'm all ears and quite a bit mouth.

[Jeseth Cloak]

I think if there's a vote done and people like the idea, it can be implemented - of course it would mean massive downsizing of a lot of fleets.

Is 15 Capital Ships per planet to much, or too little? Personally I think that many ships would be more than enough to stress any plantery economy. Asteroid fields (however much they might carry in resources) shouldn't be worth more than a single Capital Ship due to the fact that they are uninhabited ( or nearly uninhabited).

Maybe one of the Admins would like to create a new thread to discuss the idea.

[Gav Mortis]

Oh no. Fleet talks...run! :p

[Force Master Hunter]

You mentioned the downsize word.

:: Runs away from that argument::

No, seriously, the credit thing is a good idea.

[Jeseth Cloak]

:p Sorry Gav... but someone's gotta try to sort this stuff out.

[Lord Gue]

Wow, that sounds familiarBah, no one ever listened to me

[Sanis Prent]

Well, I still don't think a credit standard for fleet RP's is workable. Its a different ballgame than a small group of people who own a business or a few ships. You get into GDPs, Market elasticity, business earnings, corporate gains, and essentially have to pull some half-baked macroeconomics to get it to work.

Microeconomics, or business economy on the small-term, is more-or-less common sense to most people. The average person understands supply, demand, and price. However, when you put the entire act of fielding a starship fleet into the fray, you are talking macroeconomics...and the dynamics involved in that are a good sight more complicated. Essentially, you are trying to steer an entire economy, which is different than steering merely one sector or private enterprise.

I'm good with my dollars and sense, but I am no Greenspan. I'd rather not add an Economics degree prerequesite to fleet RP's :)

[Valk Twilight]

Well, maybe if we could start up enough corporations here at SWFans, we could plausably start up a small galactic stock market. But on the bigger scale the # of ships per planet owned sounds like a good idea, but then again, I own no ships.

[Sanis Prent]

If you knew half of what a stock market was about, you would take that back in a heartbeat. I love the money game as much as anybody here...but there is such a thing as getting TOO into it. I am not going to set up a portfolio just so I can keep up with Freitek, Sienar, and Taim&Bak's quarterly earnings :x

[Valk Twilight]

Dont have to, to my knowledge no bodys running those companys

[Admiral Jyener]

Money means limits, limits mean more rules. Besides, 15 capital ships per planet could mean 15 Super Star Destroyers, or 15 Carrack Cruisers. Then there's the problem of planets being different sized and their type. Imagine the kind of money Couruscant could make compared to Hoth.

[Valk Twilight]

Well, technically, Hoth has alot of resources in an asteroid belt where as coruscant is mostly used up, Hoth would be the better place to build ships from....

[Sanis Prent]

but then you talk about facility construction, not to mention plopping down a wad of credits to build a large settlement on a big icecube, you gotta keep those techies warm and survivable, etc. In other words, the cost to invest at hoth is ASTRONOMICAL, whereas the cost to invest in a place like Coruscant is not so high, as most of the infrastructure is in place.

See how much of a headache we can get into here?

[Valk Twilight]

Yeah, well. I think things like finding the peculiars such as these are fun. Thats why I start a corporation, to do things like that.

[Sanis Prent]

You're missing the gist of my argument. Economics from corporate-level is relatively easy to RP. Economics from a geopolitical entity is not. If we even try to do anything credit-related, tis best to think small.

[Valk Twilight]

Well, if we standardize cost, and just assume the market is in a freeze so we can set out starting points for simple planetary economy systems we can have a starting point to base group cost and function on

[Sanis Prent]

I think I found a way to make people stand in line to be a fleet GM.....

......force the alternative to GM this wack-ass galactic economy!

Seriously, if I had to manage the bureacracy of all of this "widget-counting"...I'd die of a stroke at 20 years of age.

I can't think of a single reason why anybody in their sane state of mind would want to do something like that.

[Jedah Lynch]

If a group starts being restricted with the number of ships they have by the number of planets they have then your going to see a whole lot of post for taking over planets. And worse of groups who try to take over whole sectors in only several post. Its bad enough how some groups act as it is.

To say the least trying to figure out what planet offers what and how much is just about impossible to figure out. Unless someone wants to chart several hundred/thousand planets.

That and it sounds like more of a headache that is going to stretch out things to be a bigger headache then most will want to deal with. Either way prepare for alot of headaches.

Writing up a RP that can take several minutes or longer is fun. Doing the math to figure out cost factors is not.

Overall no matter what one does to keep the number ships down someone is always going to find a way around it if not exploit the rules so dont see how this is going to help at all.

The problem with fleets is never going to away unless very strict rules are made to limit them in some way that is fair to everyone. Exactly how that can be done who can say. But as it is making more rules like this is pointless. Its a nice idea, just wont achieve anything in the long run and we'll have talk of downsizing again in three months time.

[Sanis Prent]

Well....we could do what Simcity does....and have a galaxy-wide catastrophe that periodically wipes a few dozen ships out :)

Oh well...maybe not.

But still....lets keep the credit-counting to those that wish to do so, I think.

[Valk Twilight]

Maybe if a few members of each group were to keep track of their groups assests and total value, that kind of thing, it would be easier, either that or I see a bowser attack on its way

[Jeseth Cloak]

Well the planet to ship ratio idea would work fine IMO. It wouldn't change the current rules for posting and conquest, it would only help to keep fleet sizes down... meaning that you wouldn't see 15 SSDs because they'd also take 90 days to construct and if you only have 2 SDs protecting an SSD that's not very good. SSDs are command ships, and are supposed to be at the heart of a larger fleet... ;;shrugs;; Ah well. Anyhow, It was just an idea to help with the out of control growth of fleets which would otherwise be impossible. I don't want to limit money or corporations, just fleets... so I suppose I may just pop another thread up after my shower and bring the issue up for discussion.

[Force Master Hunter]

On second thoughts.... no I dont like the idea.

I'm back to Common sense and fair play only needed

[Jeseth Cloak]

I agree with you FMH, but not everyone follows common sense and fairplay as a guideline... if they did, there'd be no need for rules. :(

[Atreyu]

Sense is only common if everyone has it

[Valk Twilight]

good point atreyu, BTW wernt you and admin?

[Brant Phallen]

Stepping back a little, I think a Stock Market would be fun. A way to make some extra money. We could take ten, fifteen Star Wars companies and choose a real-life company to represent them. Say, Microsoft is KDY, etc.

Sure, it'll probably never happen, but it could be fun.

[Valk Twilight]

now thats a good idea

[Sanis Prent]

I wouldn't use it for anything other than window-dressing. Maybe mentioning that Sienar stock is up or something, but to actually play the market would be a chore.

[Valk Twilight]

for you maybe, but say, wouldnt mind playing the stocks myself, maybe make a bid for prent enterprises...lol, jk

[Sanis Prent]

Ever REALLY play the stocks...and I'm not talking about watching the up and down arrows on the morning Dow report via CNN.

There is way too much tedium involved to make it a viable subgame genre.

[Sieken Kasstra]

gets on his knees*

"please im begging you...dont get Prent started on stocks and business...PLEASE!!...you could quite litrally be here forever...

[Sanis Prent]

LOL....well, I am a business major, after all :lol:

[Sieken Kasstra]

and you can NEVER EVER EVER beat this guy in a argument....so dont bother....

[Sanis Prent]

:smokin: ....if you butter me up any more, I'll become a side-item at Quincy's :lol:

[Valk Twilight]

You dont know me very well, I got more arguin skills than your average ignorant grandma. I can keep an argument aive till a thread gets blocked. But seriously, Ive done fantasy stock markets and I thought they were fun, even if I lost like 5 bucks in the end.

[Sanis Prent]

Well...I've always invested in non-liquidity interest-bearing accounts, rather than stocks. At least a year ago, they were sure-fire money. Now, you can still get great yields off of em, but nothing like what we had when Greenspan was trying to douse the Dow's runaway bull market. But I miss being able to get 7% on a money market APY. Now, I have to settle for 5%. Oh well. Still an on-par bet with about any mutual fund, considering how much you slate over for brokerage fees.

[Valk Twilight]

Ive always believed in diversification (sp) of funds under lots of current low yeild stocks

[Sanis Prent]

You mean....a mutual fund? :p

[Jeseth Cloak]

Ew.... Mutual funds. ;; Pukes. ;;

[Sanis Prent]

Nothing wrong with mutual funds...its just that there are cheaper "sure bets" out there.

[Valk Twilight]

lol, whatever