About the banner

[Gav Mortis]

I in no way mean disrespect to anyone here but I feel I have to speak my mind and say I really don't like it. But before I am maimed, please let me explain myself here.

First of all, today, I came to SWFans to reply to several roleplays I have going on at the moment and when I caught sight of that banner still here; psychologically, it took me right back to Tuesday, 11th. After that, I felt miserablely depressed and upset. Over the week, I have mourned, reflected and made my peace with the situation.

This isn't good for me. I want to move on however that banner and another banner, namely this (http://learndifferent.clanpages.com/ll/freedom.jpg) one are preventing me from moving on. They are so miserable and morbid; I mean for Gods sake, one is showing the airplane seconds before it crashing into the tower killing unthinkable numbers of people and the banner up there shows the buildings damaged.

To me these aren't sentimental but images or reminders of ungodly destruction. The banner is to remind us of the lives lost however shows the buildings that were destroyed and that sig is just a prelude to a massacre. Please, this is hard enough as it is without having the whole misery of it thrown back into my face.

Lady De'Ville has a nice sig in respect to those lost. Why can't we have a banner of a candle instead or something more solemn?

[Lady Vader]

I agree, Gav.

I also have two other banners (sigs) I made, where LD got hers, inside my profile. Just click my name and they're there. Anyone is free to use them. :)

[FightingChance]

Personally, I sort of do agree. The banners are a bit harsh. Maybe they should be fixed, for everyones sake.

[Admiral Jyener]

Yeah we need to concentrate on coming together, helping people out, and do what we can to grow stronger. Not go back. Everyone is aware of what happened, and the people lost need to be remembered. But we need to go up, not be brought down.

[FightingChance]

Good words coming from someone who can't even do his own science report..

[Jeseth Cloak]

I feel the same way that Gav does. I think I even stated that in another thread, but I don't know if anyone ever replied... That's part of the reason for me taking a break. Everytime I come here I become emotionally overwhealmed by the banners and images that are everywhere, and it makes impossible for me to actually gather together my emotions when I write. So please, a candle is appropriate, anything else, but all of those images are kind of disturbing...

This is a Roleplaying community, and while it's appropriate for us to discuss these issues on the OOC thread, I shouldn't have to feel like crap everytime I log in to RP at SWFans.net. I come here to relieve the pain, not re-live it...

[Atreyu]

I also have to admit that having the banner up the top is a bit distracting. We want to try and move on from the terrible event, not constantly live in the past.

Already TFN has forbidden the use of icons and pics in sigs relating to the event, on the grounds that a lot of people come to the forums to get away from reality, and don't particularly wsnt to be reminded again and again of the situation currently facing the world.

I say leave it up for now, but when we move to vBulletin we leave the banner behind.

[Seth Darkserpent]

The sig with the plane bothers me, but the banner doesn't. It's kind of commerative, and reminds me of how this catastrophe brought everyone from all around the world (yes even some in Afghanistan)together. They devoted their prayers and respect for those lost. It makes me feel good, almost at peace with myself.

[Force Master Hunter]

The banner is okay.

[Lady Vader]

I made a sort of rememberance banner in case those here wish to use it. No pictures that will take them back to that fateful day. Just a reminder that hope is still with us and those that were hit hard by what happened.

Here it is. SWF Admins, use it as you deem fit:

http://learndifferent.clanpages.com/misc/wrldpc4.jpg

[Figrin D an]

A point well-taken... and one that is most understandable.

If there is a major problem with the banner I've been using, I'll certainly remove it.

[Keerrourri Sarrtarroa]

I'm sorry that you don't appreciate my banner, but I will not remove it. People take this in different ways, and I think while we have to pray for the wellbeing of those who may be still alive and for the families of those who are lost, I also think that we don't need to sweep these graphic images under a rug and not think about them. I think its important to see, and important to build up the rage. The world is angry...it is furious, and we have to harness that incredible energy and put it toward great forces of change.

[Lady Vader]

*sigh*

I'm sorry to hear you feel that rage is the answer. Frankly, it saddens me. Uncontrolabe rage will only lead to our destruction. If that's the majority way of thinking on this planet, then I'm on the next space shuttle outta here.

[Keerrourri Sarrtarroa]

Please listen to me next time. I was referring to rage, as in righteous anger, that power for change that is so pivotal in world history.

Do I want to smack around 20 million afghans in some global temper tantrum? No.

Do I want the world to strike terrorists and the countries that support them, and put these war criminals on the run? Yes.

It takes rage to fuel action like this. Simply having rage doesn't promote barbarism.

[Jeseth Cloak]

It doesn't take rage to do the right thing, but it does a lot of times take compassion.

[Nupraptor]

Sorry to burst your idealistic bubble, but compassion alone will not stop future attacks like this.

[Jeseth Cloak]

I never said it would take compassion alone. Rage, however, is not going to solve anyone's problems, especially since not all people turn rage or anger into postive motivation or behavior.

[Keerrourri Sarrtarroa]

Tell that to your grandparents, when the Japanese bombed. Ask them what they felt, and ask them what kept them going.

[Jeseth Cloak]

My grand father was a CIA operative in Cuba when the Soviet Union was there, and even after the Soviets left he stayed there and fought against the Communist Regime, but he did it out of love for his country more than anger or rage. I'm not saying that it doesn't work for everyone, I just don't think that promoting rage is such a great idea since not all people use that energy in constructive ways.

[Keerrourri Sarrtarroa]

We've just never seen it used that way in our generation. That's all.

Rage is powerful....one of the most potent forces in human comprehension is the wrath of God, don't forget.

[Lady Mindy]

I personally don't have a problem with any of the banners. Lady DeVille's are rather calming and respectful to see.

If my banner(s) bother anyone I will change or remove mine.

I must admit I have very mixed feelings on all of what's occurred and what's still to come ... from both sides. I'll also admit that my mind was just numb with shock and devastation at what my daughter and I had witnessed last Tuesday. I wasn't too clear on why any of this happened? I don't think I am now, either.

If I am remembering correctly, this Bin Laden freak is all pissed off because Americans walked on his soil back during desert storm so he sees their lands as being tainted, or some stupid @#%$ like that. And supposedly the US ignores Israel, whatever that is suppose to mean. (Sorry for the language, but I am actually getting a bit ticked off).

Weren't we there to help them??? And my next question may be even more stupid... Um, when they (meaning the arabs and middle easterners) go around shooting each other to hell and back, killing their own on their own soil, why doesn't that taint it???????? Seems like a warped mentality there to me : shrugs :

I don't know if it's the human side of me, or the mother in me, perhaps it is both; but I am scared for my children. I am scared for the children across our nation and around the world. My daughter's birthday is tomorrow, 9-16, and she had wanted me to take her out to celebrate at Dave & Busters ... love those starwars arcade games! As I was getting ready, she came up to me and told me she didnt want to go anymore because she was afraid that some kind of an attack would happen and we would be caught in it.

It took me awhile to assure her that we would be fine, nothing was going to happen and that we should go and have a good time and not let them (the terrorists) win. We went, and a part of me found it a bit eerie to be out. I found myself looking to the night skies and it struck me as ... odd, I suppose that is the word I'm looking for .... to see only 3 whole planes coming to land at O'Hare International Airport. Usually, when I look up, I see 15-20 planes, all lined up in their holding patterns and making their descent's to land; not too mention that tonight, I didn't see one plane take off.

I suppose that just reinforced the fact that all of this is real, and not some morbid, twisted nightmare that woke me up in the middle of the night.

I certainly don't want to see anymore innocent people die...especially children. And I don't want our brave men and women in our armed forces to lose their lives either; though I am deeply grateful that there are those who are willing to do just that, so that I, my children, and all other Americans can sleep at night, and wake the next day and live freely.

Then there is the other part of me that says: Hunt down those low life bastards who did this and rip their beating hearts out through their asses and show them that we as a nation, we as a world are just down with this @#%$ and we won't take it and we wont let those who did those go unpunished!

Oh my ... I certainly didn't mean for this post to go on and on and for that I am sorry. I think I'll hush now...

[Gav Mortis]

Excuse me, could you please take your talks of rage and whatnot out of this thread all of you; preferably off this board too. I don't want to read that sort of stuff.

[Sergeant Tyle]

You wanted the banners gone, I gave you the reasonings for not taking them down.

We don't have to agree, but I'd be really upset if you DIDN'T harbor some anger and rage over this massacre.

We all should, to more or less of a degree.

[Miryan no Trunks]

Anger is good. Anger can be a powerful ally. Anger can prevent you from just curling up in a ball and waiting until a situation changes.

But am I mistaken in my understanding that Rage is no more than uncontrolled anger?

If Anything, we need to be more controlled than Ever right now, and personally, I don't think that keeping everyone in a state of rage, is going to do a bit of good for Anyone.. If the US gov. gave in to rage, they'dve pressed the button right away, and millions more innocents would have died.

Their Anger, however, is keeping them motivated in their search for the perpetrators(sp?) and their heads clear, for planning how to fight back in the most intelligent, efficient way.

We, as citizens, should Also want to keep our minds and thoughts clear and focused, so we can continue with our lives as best we can, without just sitting around brooding over how pissed off we are..

Who knows, perhaps, because I'm Canadian, I haven't experianced the feeling like the attack was personal, as I'm sure most if not all Americans feel, like they were trying to destroy me personally. I do, however, still feel incredible anger at the tremendous loss in life that occured, and a horrible sadness, and emptiness, that have occumpanied it..

......

I hate how almost all of my big speachy-type posts end before they sound like they should. Or maybe they just don't end soon Enough.. >_<

[Sergeant Tyle]

I just know where to point my rage to.

Should I point it at my middle-eastern, arabic, and muslim friends, or even strangers, here on campus?

No. Why should I? What have they done? These are my friends who hurt exactly like I hurt, and who share in my feelings. I have never passed judgment on race, color, or creed. I myself am a socialist in idealism, but I stand behind our Republican President. I am a Methodist, yet I pray with my Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, and even agnostic friends...all the same. We are all together. I am a mutt...why would I shun someone for their race? Likely, I would shun myself in the process.

Should I point it at the innocent civilians of a nation that is evil?

No. The oppressed are not the oppressors. The poverty-stricken population of Afghanistan suffers under the worst human rights, and most oppressive laws in the world. They are the largest source of refugees in the world. These people didn't commit mass murder.

My rage, and yes, it is rage...lies with the Taliban, lies with the terror networks, lies with Bin Laden, and lies with any human being who has laid eyes on him.

Should they suffer? Yes. Should they bleed? Yes.

Should they die?

Yes, they deserve to die, and I hope they burn forever in Hell.

Like my power to forgive...my mercy goes only so far.

[Lady Mindy]

Sergeant~

I must say that was very eloquently stated.

[Gav Mortis]

Well, as ever I'm going to be brutally honest and upset some people here now. No I am not angry or hateful and yes I have forgiven those who have committed this atrocity.

Why? Because if I didn't I wouldn't be me, this is who I am and if you can't accept me for that, very well.

I think anger and hate are base emotions that wont help me in life and I try to overcome them as much as possible. Although I in no way blame anyone for being angry at such things as it is perfectly natural but all I want to do in life is be happy and find peace within myself.

That is not to say this tragedy hasn't affected me, I have cried and cried, then finally after mourning made peace with the whole thing. That was until last night when I saw on WWF Smackdown Lilian Garcia sing the US national anthem. That brought back the despair but nevertheless I can't be eaten up by hatred and anger - it'd make me bitter and I wouldn't like that.

I'm not sure whether or not I've made my perspective any clearer, I hope that helped anyway.

[Lady Mindy]

Gav~

You've made your perspective very clear and I, for one, must commend you for being the way you are. I personally feel it takes a big person to be able to forgive; especially forgive those who caused all of this in the first place.

I can and do forgive most things; the trivial things. This is just something that I, personally, see as an unforgiveable act of senseless violence.

You stated that if others cannot accept that this is the way you are, then so be it. I agree. If others cannot accept me for the way I am ... then so be it. Just please understand that each person here, and around the world, handles grief and dispair in their own way; there is no 'right' way. And please understand, there are those of us who cannot forgive, or forgive as easily, as another may be able to do .... and accept them for the way they are.

I'm curious, you state you have forgiven ... but does that mean you don't think those responsible should be punished?

[Gav Mortis]

Bugger it! That was the most important part of what I was going to say and I forgot, sorry.

Yes, I am absolutely positive that those responsible for one of the most evil things I've ever witnessed should be punished, every last one of them brought to justice and have their just desserts.

I really appreciate what you say Mindy, I completely understand that people handle things differently and cannot criticize them for it except it really upsets me to hear people talking about hatred and whatnot. That's why I spoke up about it before.

[Lady Mindy]

You're welcome, Gav. I understand completely about hating to hear people speak of hatred, and not that I condone it, and yes, I have spoken of hatred before ... I think that the anger is now setting in for most of the people here as well as across the nation, and perhaps ... around the world.

[Sergeant Tyle]

Gav, I've had enough discussions with you about the word "hate"...hopefully to the point that you know that I'd rather die than take that word lightly.

These are the only people I have ever hated since that stupid @#%$ murdered Brian. The only people I try to absolve and forgive, but can find no room for it in my soul. I hope this does not make me monstrous and does not make me cruel, because I carry these things with much thought, and a heavy heart.

The last thing I ever want to do is to feel this way about someone.

[Gav Mortis]

I understand and respect all that you have said man and despite our different perspectives I don't blame you for feeling the way you do. Yes, we have spoken about it before and I know it hasn't made you monsterous or cruel which means you are a much stronger person than I, for I wouldn't be strong enough to feel the way you do.

I respect and appreciate you for the way you are and I hope you never change that! Now is an emotionally testing time for all of us and each of us deal with this pain in different ways, there is only one thing I know is certain and that is that we will all come out of this victorious and proud. Hopefully, one day, the world will be a place in which we don't even have to think about these things.

[Sergeant Tyle]

That is why I feel this sense of urgency of action. At long last, I think we have what we need to turn the tide against terrorism. I pray for the world, that we can unite and destroy this evil.