Copy write Question

[buff jedi 2]

Im doing a workout video, it will be finished in the spring time and im doing it in a big STARWARS theme.Of course its going to be chessy and all(but serious on the workout)And of course its not going to be a big seller or anything.Its for all the star wars fans who want to workout.Anyway we havnt went over any copywrite laws in any class yet ,and I was just curious if anyone knows them.



buffjedi/wookieboy

[Doc Milo]

I'm pretty familiar with copyright laws -- at least regarding written works.

From what you say, so far, if you plan on using any trademarked material, characters, locations, etc... you may have some copyright issues if you use these things without permission from LucasFilm Ltd -- especially if you plan on selling the video; and it doesn't matter how much you think you can make when selling it, the act of selling it for any amount would be sufficient.

Any specific question, though? If I can answer it I will give it a try...

[buff jedi 2]

Thanks Doc,What i have in mind is this. There will be (or planing) to have scene's from the movies mixed in .And all the actor's(all three of us) are in character such as maul,obi-wan and luke.A little yoda puppet is the instructer.thr star wars movies are playing in the background,along with stand ups and starwars poster's etc.(Like I said chessy)anyway On the selling part the price is going to be the price of the video tape itself (I think 1.99)and shipping.This price will go up if it catches on,but i won't hold my breathe.Im plaining a duel at the end of it But that depends on what the guy who's mixing it can do.Any insight will help DOC!


thanks buffjedi/wookieboy

[Doc Milo]

To me that sounds like you can have definite copyright problems. Using scenes from the movies without permission is a definite copyright infringement. Dressing up as the characters, probably not as much, but still walking the line. If you made it available for free, maybe as a downloadable file on the internet, while still a possible infringement, usually would not bring LucasFilm down on you (example would be the fan trailers, fan fiction, etc...)

Here's a link to the US Office of Copyright. You can look up the law for yourself here:

www.loc.gov/copyright/ (http://www.loc.gov/copyright/)

Click the link to copyright law, then, under chapter one they have "Limitations and Exemptions" which tell you any circumstance for reproduction of a work that does not constitute an infringement of copyright. See if what you are planning falls into any of those exemptions.

Warning -- as with all legalese, this might make your head hurt! :)

[buff jedi 2]

Doc My head already hurts Just thinking about it.Thanks for the info ill for sure check it out..






thanks a BUNCH


buffjedi/wookieboy

[DvdJervs]

I'm no expert with copyright laws but the fact that you werre planning to sell it should have alarm bells ringing of copyright infringement. You can't make a profit off someone elses work without their permission.

That's why places like The Force.Net, SWFans.Net etc. are allowed to exist - they do it for no profit whatsoever. if they did LucasFilm would have their sites shutdown in no time.

More information on copyright may also be gathered from the Replica Props forum, since they're always on the tighrope of what constitutes a hobby and what constitutes law breaking. :)

[buff jedi 2]

No im not looking for profit If youll look atmy 2nd post on this you'll see that it will only be the cost of A VHS tape AND shipping .You cant make profit like that,do you really think it would be good enough to make money =( Its just a tribute to my love of starwars and working out. =)



buffjedi/wookieboy

[DvdJervs]

But you want to make money out of it. I think that still qualifys as an infringement of copyright, regardless of whether you actually make a profit on it or not.

But I'm no expert. :)

[buff jedi 2]

No Nope no make money (I would like to )but it wouldnt happen. If I spend 1.99 and make a copy of it and send it to someone and they pay 1.99 and then the shipping and handling I make 0 right ?? =)if im wrong please let me know . we all know im not above being wrong.




buffjedi/wookieboy

[DvdJervs]

But you're still making money see? Your making just enough to cover your losses so you're even, but you're still making money. :)

I don't know what the details for this are. replica Proppers sell lightsabers and junk all the time and seem to go fine, so what do I know? :)

[Doc Milo]

Making a profit or making money is not the only definition of a copyright infringment.

For example, if you buy a CD and make a copy of it and give it to a friend for free, you are still in violation of copyright law because you have infringed upon the copyright owner's ability to make money off his own work. (Your friend now doesn't have to buy a copy.)

Of course, that is not in the same category as you are talking about. But charging money for it, even if you don't make a profit, is still, I believe, an infringement. I think you would stand a better chance of staying above the law if you made it a downloadable file on the internet. Or even if you made it a parody...

DVDJervs: I believe the issue of the lightsaber props they sell may have this as a possible explanation: The lightsaber itself may not be "copyrightable" but the depiction on screen of the lightsaber within the context of the story is what is copyrightable. Of course, in using portions of the movies themselves, as buffjedi is planning, definitely has copyright issues associated with it, I believe (if I've read it correctly. The Supreme Court's recent decision was easier to understand!!!)

Of course, I'm not sure. I learn copyright law as I go along. In fact, near the beginning of this thread I said I was familiar with copyright law, but what I was familiar with was "when something is copyrighted" and "how to register a copyright" and "what can be copyrighted and what can't" and the various rights that exist for a work that an author could sell. I didn't realize just how much I didn't know until I looked up the law with an eye toward finding an answer for buff -- I guess one could say "with what constitutes an infringement."

Now, don't take this as an endorsement of "it's okay if I don't get caught" (which is something I do not endorse) but even if it is an infringement, LucasFilm would have to take enough of an interest to prosecute . . .

(Buff, be warned, there is something in the law about "mutilation of the work" so that maybe another infringement you may get in trouble for :) )

[buff jedi 2]

Gotcha Both .!!! Ok new question Do either of you know where I would have to go to get GL's ok pn this? I would feel kind of silly writing GL about a chessy workout video BUT if need be i'd do it.And Doc im still reading the copy write laws and WHEWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!



thanks guys buffjedi/wookieboy

[Doc Milo]

Getting permission -- that is something I have no idea how to go about doing. Sorry.

The one time I thought I might have to get permission for something is on my current writing project but it ended up that the work I was using to base my current work on was a work in public domain.

[Bromine]

Here's another legal tidbit to make the discussion more confusing: The "Fair Use" laws. I found the following excerpt at www.soundamerica.com:

17 U.S.C. 107 (1988 & Supp. IV 1993). Section 107 provides in
part:

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair
use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in
copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that
section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting,
teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use),
scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In
determining whether the use made of a work in any particular
case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include:

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such
use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational
purposes;

(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to
the copyrighted work as a whole; and

(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of
the copyrighted work.

My general rule of thumb (not neccessarily accurate) is that if you're in any way taking money away from the copyright holder or making money yourself, you're going to have problems. Also, if you're not contributing anything original to a work but simply copying and distributing someone else's copyrighted material, then you're in trouble. "Saturday Night Live", "The Late Show", etc, does skits making lewd fun of Sesame Street, Star Trek, etc, but the audience is obviously not watching to see Star Trek; they're watching to see the original humour. Again, I'm no expert; I just thought it was an interesting bylaw.

Now, considering you're using the material in conjuction with your own creative ideas, you're not making money, plus the fact that you could pass off the video as educational, maybe the fair use laws would cover you.

[Doc Milo]

Yeah, I was looking at the fair use clause as well. But I couldn't figure out if what buff wanted to do would fit in. I think the strongest possibility is trying to pass off the video as "educational." The only thing is, as I read that, I thought the education would have to be about the work, or the format of the work. Like using a clip of Star Wars to educate someone about film, or using an excerpt of a book in a literature class...

But the fair use clauses would be where any "defense" of the tape buff wants to make would start, should he be sued for copyright infringement -- which I don't believe he would be even if it is an infringement. Lucas has been pretty lienent regarding fan done stuff made more to honor Star Wars and for fun than to make money off of the Star Wars name. He's also taken no prisoners when it is apparent something is done for the sole purpose of profiting off the Star Wars name.

But the fair use clauses are interesting. I'd imagine that is where parodies of copyrighted works have been defended (such as the skits Bromine has mentioned on SNL etc...)

[buff jedi 2]

Thanks agian guy's . I didnt think there would be so much to consider when doing something like this.I have to go with you DOC Id doubt lucas would even care .(well kind of what you said).I will continue filming at (a slow pace )while I still read, and read on the legal aspect of it, and try to make heads or tails of it.I dont want to infringe on anything lucas has done ,as far as taking credit, making money etc.But I really want this video to go out to all the star wars fans I can.Like I have said several times its chessy But it will be neat and true to workout form.Im going to dig deep into the fair use clause.(well as deep as I can anyway).Thanks a buch agian





buffjedi/wookieboy

[Bromine]

You've also got to think of the worst case scenario: At the worst, Lucasfilm will send you a nasty letter asking you to stop, in which case you do and you're no worse off than before you started.

[buff jedi 2]

I dont mean this in a smart butt way) If lucas send me a nasty letter i think I would cry (for real)




buffjedi/wookieboy