The EU is trash

[Darth Turbogeek]

Go on, prove me wrong. I really hope Esp II and III contradict more of the EU and it becomes meaningless like the trash it is... (BTW, not all the EU is bad. Zahns books are quite good and he did research and interview Lucas to get them right.)

[Bromine]

Okay, so you admit that not all EU is trash, right? I agree with you to a limited extent that some of the EU is pretty lame, and a lot of it I could do without. However, I think we need to keep in mind that GL doesn't just hand out liscenses to use the SW Universe and say, "Have fun!" He works with the authors, albeit to a very limited extent. He provides new characters, worlds, etc. For example, notice that Coruscant appeared first in the EU, but also appeared promonently in TPM? GL didn't do that because someone else thought up the planet. GL thought it up and had EU authors incorporate it into their stories. Some ppl say thing like, "GL hates EU, he'd stop it if he could, etc." Believe me, if he hated the EU, it wouldn't be written. GL isn't one to compromise artistic integrity just for some royalties. He obviously is fine with the EU stories.

[Atreyu]

I think Bromine said it all. :) Anyway, I've only read the Thrawn Trilogy by Zahn, and I reckoned it was pretty good. I've heard that most of the other books are pretty ordinary though ...

[Darth Turbogeek]

Actually, Timothy Zahn named Coruscant. He and Lucas DID work together, no-one else really has. Did you know why Spectre of the Past / Vision of the Future were written? So that the damage other EU authors did could be repaired and the EU put back on track again. Spectre / Vision is a repair job! Now, what does that say bout the rest of the EU?

[Atreyu]

Hey DT - that stuff about Spectre/Vision being repair jobs. Where did you get that info from? Or did you just make it up o your argument looks good? :)

[Darth Turbogeek]

No I didnt make it up. I remember reading a lot of info when I found out about Spectre / Vision and that was one of the juicer bits. I researched a fair bit before I read them.... as I had suffered many dissappointments with other EU books. BUT the stroy was that Lucas wasnt happy with the direction of the EU and there was plenty in it that would not tie in with the upcoming TPM (as it was then). Bantam also were to tie up their series of books, so to kill two birds with the ol' one stone, Zahn was asked to do the job. Notice he attributes a lot of mistakes to Luke being with the Dark Side, introduces the Jedi Master / Padawan idea (at the end) as well as killing the Empire off.

[Atreyu]

Interesting - thanks for the info. :)

[Bromine]

Also remember that GL put Ki-Adi-Mundi, originally in the comics, on the Jedi Council. Another question: If GL is so unhappy with the EU, why does he continue to let it be written? He obviously doesn't cave in to things just because the fans want it; just look at the way he's delaying the TPM DVD...

[Doc Milo]

Good point Bromine. It would be easy for Lucas to kill the EU if he wanted to. After all, he owns the copyright of all the EU stories (actually, LucasFilm does -- same difference.) He can even pull the books that are already out there from the shelves, if he so chooses. It might cost him some money to reimburse Bantam but if he wanted to kill the EU he could do it at whim. I guess what I'm trying to say is, The EU is not something that Lucas hates but can't control. Some EU stories might end up toast when this trilogy is finished (I, for one, wouldn't mind the entire Resurrected Emperor storyline advanced in the Dark Empire comics destroyed) but most of the contradictions will probably only be on minor things. Not to say he'll fashion this trilogy on what happened in the EU, but that he was careful, for the most part, not to let any of the EU touch any of the subjects that he wants to relate in his movies. (I've recently come to this way of thinking thanks to Bromine!) :) I would say that, when all is said and done, the contradictions can be seen in the same light as contradictions between history texts that tell the same story from different points of view. The same way it is with most myths and legends, too.

[Bromine]

Well said, Doc! :) Also, like I've metnioned in other threads, I don't think there has EVER been a direct conflict between EU and "Canon" stories. Hey, DT: If you were trying to revive this forum a little, I think it worked!:)

[Atreyu]

I agree - this thread has done wonders. Can we have more like this please? :)

[Darth Turbogeek]

Sure, I can do that :) Milo's point is rather good, but I guess I just hope that a LOT of it gets cancelled out. Most is so bad and I really hate what it has done. The rot started with the KJA books and went downhill badly. The lights of the EU are X-Wing ( not bad) , I, Jedi (The last third is full on and excellent action) and the Zahn Books. Zahn stands IMO as the second best thing to happen to the SW universe, esp. with some of the characters we all wish could make it to the screen, like Mara Jade, Thrawn and the Noghri.

[Atreyu]

Ahhh, what I wouldn't give to see those characters on the big screen. :)

[knight wal]

Great tread....Time to add my two cents worth....First, Ki-Adi Mundi was created by George Lucas for TPM. Dark Horse had the privelege of introducing him prior to the films release in the the monthly comic, but he was created for the film.... Second, Corucant was not named by Timothy Zahn despited popular belief....it was named after "the bright center of the universe your on the planet that it's farthest from" (sound familiar) taken from Issac Asimov's Foundation trilogy. I've heard it rumored to be called Coruscant long before Heir to The Empire and long before the bright shinny days of the internet. Do the research, the truth is out there.... P.S. KJA novels do eat bantha fodder....

[Randy1012]

I agree about the EU pretty much stinking. IMO, they shoulda fired every author 'cept Zahn and Stackpole. ::grin:: Anyone get "Vector Prime" by R.A. Salvatore yet? I got it for my birthday, I'm about 3/4 through it. It's pretty good, though it's definitely not the best SW novel out there, but I don't think anyone's judgement should be too harsh, it's Salvatore's first SW book after all.

[Doc Milo]

I'm reading Vector Prime now. I love RA Salvatore's works in the Forgotten Realms line of fantasy books. I've always thought that he was a great writer. When he gets rolling, it's usually "hang on and enjoy the ride." Only on Chapter Two in Vector Prime, though. Sadly, my reading time has been cut drastically since my work schedule has changed.

[JediBear]

I should know better than to enter into one of these discussions, but here goes. I don't know about the origins of the name "Coruscant", but I know when RotJ was being written, GL had planned on showing the Imperial Center in RotJ. Whether or not he had the name Coruscant at that time, I don't know. There are production sketches and paintings by Ralph McQuarrie of it in The Lucasfilm Archives book. As to whether or not the Eu is actually part of the SW Universe, IMO it is. Like mentioned earlier, GL doesn't just hand out liscenses(sp). The authors work closely with reps from Lucasfilm on what can & can't happen in the SW Universe. Though some things have slipped thru, like the alternate dimension stuff in The Crystal Star. that book stunk. Just my opinion.

[Bromine]

I think the problem with a lot of EU is that many of the authors have an interesting sotry idea, but instead of inventing their own characters and settings, they use the SW universe, where their story doesn't fit. I think we all can think of several examples of an EU story that was interesting, but just wasn't "Star Wars". Another problem is that a lot of the authors seem to want to define the Force for us, as far as THEY see it, and solve the unsolvable riddles. It never works, and just sounds lame. My favorite example of this is in "The Courtship of Princess Leia". However, although I hate some of the stories, I accept the fact that they're a part of the Star Wars Universe, since George Lucas obviously has no problem with it.

[Darth Turbogeek]

You know Bromine, the first two paragraphs are the best explaination as to why the SW EU is so out of tune to the movies and mainly suck. Let me think about that.... yeah actually, now I think of it, if they were set in their own little universe and didnt attempt to use SW, most probably would be good. The Black Fleet crisis would be be pretty good IF it wasnt in the EU...... but as it is, it really comes across lame and grates against what we accept SW and the Force to be. It just should not be in SW. So, if I was to take the Crystal Star (the most hated EU book you could with some confidence say), change Luke to a mage, Callista (eewwww) to a trapped spirit form of a witch, Leia to a Queen, Han to a Knight, Chewie to a loyal Paladin etc.... hmmm, it could work nicely. But, it goes to show to write a SW novel, you just cant use a story and insert SW characters without reference to the movies. Zahn obviously didnt make that mistake. He looks like took the characters and crafted the novels around them. Now, that works well, as any writer knows. A good writer will build a charater and then put the story around them. A bad writer will take a story and insert a character into it. It's like putting a square peg into a round hole.

[Bromine]

Actually, that's why I stopped reading Star Trek novels. A lot of it seemed to be less of a well-done novel than it was fanfic. Nothing wrong with fanfic, but by definition it's done from a fan's perspective of what they'd like to see, and that just doesn't work most of the time. (Plus the fact that I'm beginning to think anyone with a typewriter and a Star Trek Fan Club membership can get permission to write a ST novel.)

[Darth Turbogeek]

I think Saladore tried to write Star Trek type novel for SW, which why Vector Prime reads well but is sickening to the SW fans.