which book came first

[ReaperFett]

Darksaber or the Jedi Academy trilogy?

[Bromine]

I'm positive Jedi Academy Trilogy came first.

[Atreyu]

I believe Bromine is correct - it was KJA's first foray into the EU.

[Jedieb]

I thought the first SW work KJA did was editing the Jabba anthologies. But Jedi Academy trilogy did come before DArk Saber. The Academy trilogy first introduced us to Kyp Duron, and I always thought Kyp was made way too powerful. Even with Exar Kun's help, he never should have been able to take down Luke. That was plain ridiculous.

[Bromine]

That ruined the whole trilogy for me, actually. Seemed every time Luke tested someone, they were really powerful and he was all surprised. Gantoris was supposed to be the most powerful, then he died and Kyp was discovered to be amazing. Somehow with almost no training he was navigating the Maw cluster and other impossible things.

[SAURRON]

Just popped in to say hi Bromine

[Bromine]

Hey, SAURRON!:)

[Atreyu]

Yes KJA had done some eduiting and other things for the EU already, but I believe the trilogy was his first big work.

Now let's never speak of it again. :)

[Jedieb]

Ah, I see the Jedi Academy Trilogy has left you disillusioned. May I suggest the fine work of Barbara Hamley.(sp?) Who can ever forget the wonder that is Calista. A SW EU character that will live in infamy...
>) (I'm truly evil.......)

[ReaperFett]

I like the series so far

[Darth Turbogeek]

You enjoying the Jedi Acadamy series?

[NightSeed]

Hey, I liked the academy trilogy alot. :)

[Pat Za Ponor]

I really liked it too. :)

[Mhalbrecht Dalarsco]

They were the first EU books I read.

[Lord Exar Kun]

JediEb,
I just wanted to contest one thing you said about Kyp Durron taking down Luke Skywalker, even with Exar Kun's help.

I do not know if you have had the opportunity to read any of the Dark Horse graphic novels with Exar Kun, but this was one of the most powerful Sith Lords, if not THE most powerful Sith Lord ever. Kyp Durron has always shown great potential, and in my opinion, when you take two forces like Kyp Durron and Exar Kun and combine them, Luke Skywalker, being Vader's son or not, is going to have his hands full.

[Kat Kariena]

That I agree with. I've read most of the EU books, and so far the only one I really didn't care for was one of the books by Stackpole. x.x anyway.... I'll go away now and leave you guys to your debateing. :mneh

[Jedieb]

Originally posted by Lord Exar Kun
JediEb,
I just wanted to contest one thing you said about Kyp Durron taking down Luke Skywalker, even with Exar Kun's help.

I do not know if you have had the opportunity to read any of the Dark Horse graphic novels with Exar Kun, but this was one of the most powerful Sith Lords, if not THE most powerful Sith Lord ever. Kyp Durron has always shown great potential, and in my opinion, when you take two forces like Kyp Durron and Exar Kun and combine them, Luke Skywalker, being Vader's son or not, is going to have his hands full.

Wow, talk about resurrecting old threads!

Yeah, I've got all those comics. But the way I see it, as powerful as Kun was, he was still dead. There were limits to his power. Even in subsequent comics like Leviathan, Kyp was portrayed as possibly being more powerful than all of the Jedi, even Luke. I can understand Anakin Solo potentially having more power than Luke and the other Jedi, but handing that mantle over to Kyp just irked me. As for Kun, I'd like to think that Palpy was the most powerful of the Sith Lords. He manhndled Luke fairly easily and not only turned Anakin, but kept him and his 20,000 midichlorians on a leash for 2 decades. If you think about it, he succeeded where all other Sith Lords failed, he defeated the Jedi Knights and ruled the galaxy for 20 years. That's the best Sith score card I've seen.

[Lord Exar Kun]

While I can not dispute the tally that Sidious/Palpatine racked up as a Dark Lord of the Sith, we could go all hypothetical on this thread and say that if Exar Kun had not been betrayed by Ulic Qel Droma, he very well may have been able to achieve what Sidious did.

The sheer power demonstrated by Kun was massive. Being able to hold almost 1000 people and Jedi in check with minimal effort during the trial of Ulic Qel Droma and in turn defeating his own Jedi Master Vodo Sioosk-Baas, which is no easy feat for any Sith Lord, apprentice or not.

I also know, JediEb, that you are far too intelligent to throw up the example of Darth Maul vs. Qui-Gon Jinn, because anyone with a right mind knows that Qui-Gon Jinn should have wiped the floor clean with Maul, but Lucan had to kill him off so Kenobi could be promoted to level of Jedi Knight.

I also realize that Kun was "dead" at the time, and only in spirit form, but then in regards to Palpatine, when he was cloned and his spirit re-entered a body, would it not be presumable that Palpatine should be weaker than he orignally was? However, in the books Dark Empire, he does not look any less strong than before.

[Doc Milo]

I haven't read these comics about Exar Kun, but wouldn't the fact that he was betrayed by Qel Droma point to Sidious/Paplatine's strength as well? Sure, Palpatine, in the end, was betrayed by Anakin -- but look at what it took for Anakin to be redeemed, and in the mean time, Sidious/Palpatine took down 10,000 Jedi and converted the Chosen One to the dark side. I'd say his success speaks volumes because it was and not what could have been.

Secondly -- and this is neither here nor there -- but I'm hoping that episodes 2 and 3 severely destroy the Dark Empire series as we find out more about cloning in the SW universe. The entire storyline of the Clone Emperor was just plain stupid in my book. And, IMO, the Dark Empire storyline took a critical blow in TPM with the introduction of the Balance of the Force theme (and what Lucas says about it) because that theme ends with Luke being a representation of balance (another metaphorical way in which Anakin "brings" balance is to give life to Luke, as well as the literal way in which he does this by destroying the Sith.) Namely, Lucas has said, that there is imbalance because the line between right and wrong, good and evil, is blurred because of a corruptive influence (the Sith.) That means that Jedi have been corrupted into things like using the dark side for good purposes, an "end justifies the means" attitude among their ranks. Luke at the end is shown to see the line, going right up to it, and refusing to cross it. Anakin destroying Palpatine destroys the corruptive influence. Anakin dies -- Anakin was corrupted by the imbalance, even though it was he who brought balance -- and thus the only one left is Luke, who is in balance, seeing the line separating good and evil clearly. A represenation of balance. Now enter Dark Empire: Luke turns to the dark side essentially to destroy the Clone Emperor. This negates and is contradictory to the themes and motiffs of the entire movie saga. Thus, since the movies come first, the Dark Empire comics have taken a serious blow to their "canonocity"

[Jedieb]

[i]

I also know, JediEb, that you are far too intelligent to throw up the example of Darth Maul vs. Qui-Gon Jinn, because anyone with a right mind knows that Qui-Gon Jinn should have wiped the floor clean with Maul, but Lucan had to kill him off so Kenobi could be promoted to level of Jedi Knight.

I also realize that Kun was "dead" at the time, and only in spirit form, but then in regards to Palpatine, when he was cloned and his spirit re-entered a body, would it not be presumable that Palpatine should be weaker than he orignally was? However, in the books Dark Empire, he does not look any less strong than before.

Actually, I wouldn't even hesitate to dispute the idea that Qui-Gon was more powerful than Maul. Maul was physically superior to Qui-Gon. He nearly defeated Qui-Gon on Tatooine, he simultaneoulsy battle Qui-Gon AND his padawan, and he eventually wore Qui-Gon down and defeated him. The proof is right there on film. Qui-Gon was very powerful, but he was past his prime. While the novelization doesn't quite jibe with what you see on film, it does portray Qui-gon as an older Jedi. Neeson did a great a job of portraying weariness just before Maul runs him through. Maul didn't defeat him with a surprise move the Obi-Wan defeated him. He simply battered and wore Qui-Gon down and then struck him down. And he still had plenty of stamina to take on Obi-Wan and defeat him. Maul was killed by Obi-Wan because of his arrogance and carelessness, not because Obi-Wan physically overpowered him. You make it seem as if the story that Lucas has to tell shouldn't dictate how weak or powerful certain characters are. If Lucas makes Qui-Gon seem weaker then Maul, then that's the way it goes.

I agree with Doc, the entire cloned Emperor story line of Dark Empire is ridiculous. It contradicts and weakens Vader's redemption at the end of ROTJ. It also contradicts all of Qui-Gon's "balance to the Force" statements in TPM. It's obvious that Lucas could care less what authors and comic writers have done with SW. He's going to do whatever he wants with the films. He may borrow names and a few props, but that's about it. The novels and comics have given us images and characters that Lucas would NEVER put on film. You can draw and write things that are just too expensive and impractical to put on film. That's one of things I enjoy about the EU. But Jedi causing solar flares, Force storms, finding parasites in your bloodstream and guiding them out of your body, repairing damaged blood vessels in your brain, etc. There's tons of stuff in the EU that Lucas would never use in a SW movie.

There's alot of great stuff in the EU, but there's a lot of junk as well. Do I have to go into Admiral Dala and that pathetic love story they wrote for her? Or what about some of the funky stuff in the early Marvel comics. Canon and EU are very different things. Whenever you try to bring up EU material against canon material the EU always has to take a backseat.

If Lucas can disregard elements of the EU, then so can I.

[ReaperFett]

Eb, EVERYONE discounts the Daala romance. The Essential Chronology says she dissapears IIRC, not settles down.

And who wrote it? KJA. Good man, save your characters :)

[Jedieb]

That was just plain ridiculous. I'm struggling to remember what novel reunited Dalla with "her long lost love", but I just remember crying out loud when I read it. And then to have her and her geezer boyfriend stroll right by Solo was equally pathetic.
"Hey, there's the evil slut who tortured me in the maw all those years ago. Boy, remember when she wiped out that entire refugee camp? Ah, she's finally found love, how sweet!" That was so ridiculously pat and contrived I can't believe ANYONE from Lucasfilm let that slide by. :x

[Mhalbrecht Dalarsco]

Vader was plotting against Palpatine.