TPM Box Office Ticket Sales Figures! Interesting..

[JonathanLB]

I found this link, I thought you guys would want to check it out:

lumiere.obs.coe.int/web/E...&year_end= (http://lumiere.obs.coe.int/web/EN/film_stats.php?film_id=12001&year_start=&year_end=)

That looks very complete to me, considering. It's on a European Box Office site, basically.

I question whether or not ER got the TPM figures for the US correct, but that's not to fault this site for their errors.

Going into 1999, they said the average ticket price was $4.75. Then just because at the end of the year it had risen to $5.08, they changed their figures and said TPM sold 84 million tickets, NOT 90 million. I still don't buy that, buy I changed the figures in my book too. I'm not willing to fight that battle now, lol.

I guarantee that 90-95 million people saw TPM in U.S. theaters, though. First, ticket prices are much lower for the children's admissions, which ER just totally ignores in their calculations, then they didn't get the wrong average ticket price RIGHT in the first place! Ha, so even the other movies are being screwed out of a large percentage of ticket sales.

Ah well, being a developed nation, the greatest nation on earth, the most technologically advanced, the U.S. also has the best ticket sales tracking. NOT! We don't even count ticket sales, yet every country in Europe does, as well as many others throughout the world. Just proves that Americans don't care about the facts (ticket sales), they care more about the money (which doesn't tell you anything about a movie if you want to compare it to older films, and it sure doesn't work for comparing PG and R movies either).

[Darth23]

At the end of the year TPM was playing in the cheaper theaters, except for the brief Charity Release. An increase at the first run theaters wouldn't effect numbers for people paying a buck or 2 to see it.

[JonathanLB]

Yes, that is true too.

It's absurd to say, for instance, that if so and so R-rated film made $50 million opening weekend, then 10 million people saw it, but if so and so Disney film that is rated G made $50 million, then 10 million people also saw it. BS!!! That is mathematically impossible because of the audience demographics and ticket prices.

It would be much more likely that more like 9 million people saw the R-rated film and 12 to 14 million saw the G rated Disney movie. There is a massive difference and if ER fails to recognize that, well, their analysis is not objective, then. It's very, very rough.

I could make a better estimate I bet.

How about taking the gross of every R-rated film for the year, adding those up, then taking the gross for every PG-13 rated film, adding those up, then do the same for PG and G. After doing this, you should know about how much was spent, percentage-wise, for each rating. This will help determine more closely what the average ticket price was for a G rated film versus an R-rated film. It's kind of hard to explain because I don't exactly know what I'm saying, but I hope that makes sense. You could do it, I think, and clearly the average ticket price of a G film is far lower than an R film because, first, discount children's admissions, but second, matinee prices too. More families are likely to go to the afternoon showings than the 10:00 p.m. or any nighttime showings, obviously.

[Dutchy]

I see my little country delivered the 9th highest admissions figure, which is quite impressive. :)

By the way, Jonathan, compliments on your writing skills. It's always a pleasure reading your posts, since you pay close attention to spelling, grammar, comma usage, etc. People like that are very hard to find on the Internet, so it's nice to see there are still people, like me, who DO care about it.

[Darth23]

Wel EYE think tpyos r kewl

:p

[Jedieb]

I find it interesting that the U.S. focuses solely on Box Office receipts and not ticket sales. I wonder if this has anything to do with the size of the US and all of the different state governments that these figures have to go through. I mean each state is going to want their share of tax revenue, and you probably have thousands of municipalities wanting their share of the tax pie. Maybe it's just plain easier and practical to focus on the money and not the tickets. I mean the number of tickets isn't going to tell my local theater what they'll have to pay the city and state in taxes. So why would they care about tracking and reporting the number of tickets sold?

[Dutchy]

By the way, Jonathan, why do you consider the USA the greatest nation on earth?

[Jedieb]

I think it his patriotism stems from his prolific military and civil service. ;)

There's nothing wrong with a little bit of patriotism for one's country. I certainly wouldn't put my nation above all others but I do feel proud to live in place that values freedom of speech and civil liberties. I'm also well aware that it's not the only nation that does this.

[JonathanLB]

"By the way, Jonathan, why do you consider the USA the greatest nation on earth?"

Actually, I don't necessarily. I was just joking. I was saying, "Gee, the US is so great we can't even frickin' track ticket sales." It was a sarcastic remark. I'm just knocking the U.S. theater chains for not reporting ticket sales, which I find annoying.

Comparing ticket sales is obviously the easiest way to compare facts. Otherwise, you have these idiots who say, "Look, Chicken Run made almost as much as Gone With the Wind! hahaha." Umm...hello people. 62 years have passed since GWTW was first released, lol. Inflation means you have this fairly frequently changing list of "the top twenty highest grossing movies of all-time," but if that were based on ticket sales alone, the list would be very steady. Not even TPM would have cracked the top ten, though it made the top twenty. This way, GWTW would have its rightful place at first, because indeed it is the most attended movie in history. Then ANH, and after that I guess it's E.T. and then Titanic...Think that is right anyway.

Dutchy, thank you for your kind words. I type less formally on forums than I would for papers and my professional writing, of course, but I still like to write as well as I can without dwelling too heavily on minor errors. For instance, I rarely go over and read every post before I post it, but I try to do that as I write.

As I said once before, my book is better for having met you. Without our frequent debates of TPM and Star Wars vs. Titanic (at the box office), I wouldn't have bothered to include many of the facts and figures I did, nor would my discussion of Titanic and TPM at the box office have been nearly as complete. I feel my box office chapters are very objective, but if I never met you and I never posted on other Star Wars forums, the chapters would have been extremely biased, not entirely factual, and less informative.

Of course, when I met you I did not know much about the box office whatsoever. Through many discussions and a great deal of research too, I think we all understand the box office better and have become, well, nearly experts. You already were an expert, though, basically.

Oh as for Jedieb's comments about the U.S. Well, the United States is not a perfect country (is there one?), but I think this is a great country. I think the foundation is great. Our nation works hard to create justice and fairness throughout the world, even if we sometimes fail and sometimes intervene when not wanted. We try to promote good values within the country, and we have been victorious in war. Many millions of people died to stop Nazi Germany and save Europe, and many people died to protect the U.S. from Japan. There are other great countries in this world, but few are as dedicated to democracy and the equality of all people as the United States.

I could write an entire book on all of the problems I have with the government and many of the laws, and on the problems this country has in general. Overall, though, I am grateful to live in a country like the United States. It is a great nation, and despite its many flaws, I'm proud to be an American, or specifically, a United States citizen. I think as a citizen, I am inclined to say this is the greatest nation on earth, but if I were born to another country that is also very well off, I probably would feel the same way about it. I think my parents are the greatest, but that is because they are my parents! It's much the same with a nation, I think. To a degree, no matter how screwed up your country might be, you feel a certain bond to it and you might very well feel it is the only place on earth you would want to live. Granted, if you lived under an oppressive regime, this might not be true (!), but if you were born in France, you probably would think France is the greatest nation. Myself, I feel France is a socialist nation with far too much government control and intervention, although the food is great, I am told, and the country is very pretty.

How can an outsider have the same view of a country as someone who really lives there? I don't think that is possible. If I lived in France, I would probably have a totally different opinion about it.

[foxdvd]

It is not "cool" to say you love America anymore...and I do not say that in a joking way..or with pride.

[Jedi Master Carr]

First let me say that I agree for the most part with Jonathan about the U.S. but my I wanted to say that another reason America is great is because it is the country with the greatest opportunity. I can think of very few places where someone one poor can move up so quickly and be successful, especially here. American's foundation has been built on these principals especially the beliefs in the "American dream." I think these principals exist because of the freedoms our government gives us. Of course things are changing in the world many nations in Europe have copied our principals of democracy and there is almost as much opportunity now in these countries as there is the U.S. Germany comes to mind right away and I am sure there are others.

Not to contradict you Jonathan but I want to look at the portrayal of France. I am not saying you are completely wrong but I just wanted to try to explain their situation, probably because I have the most knowledge here on the subject. (I studied French history in college) France is an interesting country, I can't think of any other nation that has a conservative President in Jacques Chirac and a socialist led Parliament. But the exective branch is a lot more powerful in France then in the U.S. The President is elected for a seven year term who has complete nomination power over his council. There is no conformation hearings or such and for that matter the French Parliament is nearly powerless in many ways. Oddly enough Chirac chose a socialist for his Prime Minister mainly to try to curb the huge unemployment rate that has been plaguing France for the last decade. France is not really a socialist state but has been using socialist programs to try and end this problem. I guess part of the problem is France does not have the industry that countries like Germany and England have mainly because they industrialized so late. They did not get started until the late 19th century probably because they were always revolting hehe.

Another interesting fact that I bet that most people don't know is the France has been the most democratic country in the world since the mid 1830's. They were the first country to allow women to vote, they were one of the early countries to outlaw slavery, etc. But what makes them different then the United States and other western nations is there government has not been very stable, since 1789 they have had 5 republics, two empires, two different monarchys, and a puppet government during WW II. This lack of stability has hurt the nation and its people greatly. Now France is going through a difficult time again mainly because of the unemployment rate the people are getting fet up and there elections are coming up. And there some who are worried about the support for the National Front, a fascist like party who blames foreigners for the unemployment rate and wants to rid France of all foreigners. I'm not sure when the Presidential election is maybe somebody who lives in Europe could let me know. Also I'm not sure if the situation has changed much I have read much about French politics in months so maybe the National Front's popularity has dropped, I hope. I would rather the socialist go back in power because all they would do is screw up the economy I don't want to see fascist back on the world stage.

I'm sorry I got into a rant about the state of France I think Jonathan's mentioning of it just got me thinking about the problems that are occuring there. I might just be overracting and of course things could have changed but one things' for sure the French sure do like to make things interesting.

[foxdvd]

I would like to point out that France has had the unemployment rate fall every year since 1997 I think. One way it was done was making the work week 35 hours..thus making more jobs. Last I heard the rate was getting to about 8.5...which is great for France..and starting to get into an area when they will start needing workers for some areas..

[JonathanLB]

lol, half the reason France has such a high unemployment rate is because their system of government is lousy.

France is not a great nation with lots of opportunities.

Another sad nation is Italy. It's so beautiful and there are so many great things to see, but alas, it is just the remnants of a ruined, once great empire. It's sad to see such a vast and mighty superpower like the Roman Empire fall to such a tiny, relatively unimportant nation.

I really like Italy, too, it's pretty cool. Still, not very developed or advanced now. They are more concerned with what HAS happened that what WILL happen. The U.S. doesn't have a great deal of history, but that's good. History and the past only get in the way for many countries, while we spend our resources and energy looking forward, not back.

[Jedieb]

It's very hard to compare many of these European countries to the US because of their size and populations. If you were to compare countries like Italy to large but lower populated states like the Dakotas then Italy would fare much better by comparison. And do we have to talk about the French? If I want to learn about retreating, surrendering, or placating an occupying government I'll pick up a French history book. I'm not even going to get into the whole bathing issue. ;)

You know Jon, being a Superpower like the Roman Empire wasn't exactly great for the peoples and nations they conquered. I'm fairly sure the Christians they fed to the lions in that grand ol' cloiseum weren't singing Rome's praise as they ran for their lives. It might have looked neat in Gladiator, but it was still an empire. (And we all know how evil Empires and Emperors can be!) By comparison, the British Empire could have been characterized as much more merciful to its subjects than the Roman Empire, but it fell nevertheless. Nations like India and the U.S. were grateful to be out from British rule. Do you want to go back to being a loyal subject of the Monarchy? The last 2 decades saw the collapse of the Soviet Empire. I don't think anyone outside of Russia wants to see that act put back together. So bigger isn't always better, especially when bigger means an Empire.

fox made a really good point about patriotism. We're so cynical today that we do tend to look down at patriotism. There's nothing wrong with having a healthy scepticism about your government and it's actions. But damn, you can still feel some pride without being a total sell out.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I didn't not know there unemployment numbers were going down. I remember reading about that 35 hour law but had not heard if it was successful. Well I guess we don't have to worry about the National Front.

I am sorry I offended you about France Jedieb I didn't know that was a sore spot for you ;) Actually there France were the most powerful country in the world. Unfortunetly this was during the reigns of Louis XIV and maybe later under Napoleon, I admit there recent history has a lot to be lacking they have really gone down hill since WW I, though they did have a high point under Charles de Gaulle now there was a great French leader.

[JonathanLB]

"If I want to learn about retreating, surrendering, or placating an occupying government I'll pick up a French history book."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! ROFL!!!

That is awesome Jedieb! You're hilarious.

oh boy, what would the French do without us to save their butts. :)

To be fair, they helped us early on too, but dang, learn to fight people!

The Roman Empire rocks. :) Christians were fed to the lions, big deal, lions have to eat too. lol

[Jedieb]

The Roman Empire rocks. Christians were fed to the lions, big deal, lions have to eat too. lol

As always you're Mr. Sensitive Jon. ;)

If you don't mind my saying so Jon, I think you've really lightened up lately. Next thing you'll be telling us stories this fall about crashing fraternity parties, jumping on top of pool tables and in a drunken stuper shouting out "TOGA! TOGA" while your girlfriend begs you to get down from the table. Oh who are we kidding, we all know what you'd be shouting;
"YODA! YODA! YODA!" ;)

[JonathanLB]

haha, thanks Jedieb. Very funny :)

I do love pool, though. I just graduated from high school yesterday, Sunday, and we had a big party all night long (put on by the parents and the school, so everyone was there basically). It lasted from 8 p.m. to 5:15 a.m. (so I really should still be sleeping, which I think I'll go do again, but it's harder to sleep at this time). We stopped at two different places and the first had about six pool tables. Let's put it this way, I really hope there are some good pool players in college because these guys all suck pretty much. I was 6-0, beat four different people, and 7-0 including a team game where my friend and I beat two other people.

The rest of the time, I played basketball, so I am really sore. I'm out of shape anyway, and four hours of basketball or so really wore me out. It was fun, though. Sad to think that I will not see many of the people there again, spare maybe the 10-year reunion or something. Sheesh.

[Jedieb]

Congratulations on graduating! College will be a much better experiance than HS, trust me. If some of us run into each other at SWCon2 we should hit some pool tables that night. We just have to make sure buff is with us in case any of the locals want to start any trouble.

[JonathanLB]

haha, that sounds great. Yeah, if you are going to the 2nd Star Wars Celebration, then we really should start a group where we can meet up or something. That would be awesome.

I am sure you are right that college will be a better experience than high school. For me, that seems like a definite likelihood! I don't see how it couldn't be...

In high school, I just feel like I was never part of the clicks, never popular, never really recognized, and overall it was just very frustrating if I thought about it too much. Thankfully, I usually try not to care and just don't think about it. I concentrated on my studies and on my writing without worrying too much about their social pyramid. Still, I can't pretend that it didn't bother me at all.

I hope college is different than high school in that respect. In the last few weeks, as most of the class has now learned of my book, I've had a lot more people talk to me and ask me about it, etc. The school newspaper had an article on me, which most of the student body read and the parents usually see it too. At graduation, I had this oriental lady who was next to me at the reception afterwards and she saw my diploma and said, "You're Jonathan? I read about you in the newspaper." LOL! That's the first time anyone has said that to me, of course. Hopefully not the last! :)

Then at the senior party several people said, "Is it true you wrote a book?"

I am generally private about my endeavours outside of school, but lately I've tried to make sure to get the word out. My senior reflection, which everyone in the class gets a copy of (in a book form with everyone's reflections), was also about the book. Then my article in Our Town about me and the book was posted outside of the library, and then the school newspaper article, and of course word of mouth (I began telling a few people and those few people told others, and pretty soon I was explaining the project in my Calculus class when he gave us time to do homework, haha).

Interestingly, there is an article in The Oregonion (circ. 350,000 or so I think, biggest paper in Oregon) about this young author who goes to Lincoln High School and wrote his own book, which he published through iUniverse. I know him, actually. My mom met him once at Lincoln (because my sister will transfer out of Jesuit and into Lincoln as a sophomore next year), so I have been e-mailing with him.

You have to think if he could get a sizeable article (and it is pretty nice) for basically self-publishing a book (iUniverse is, essentially, a vanity press), then I will be able to generate some attention when I find a publisher for my book.