BRING ME THE SPACE MAN!!!!

[JonathanLB]

Oops, err...uhh...I mean, I can't wait until Planet of the Apes comes out ;)

That movie's gonna rock.

They all want to know who this human is who defies the apes!

BOW YOUR HEAD!

"It's too late, nobody is coming!" "You came" (emphasis on sexy voice from hot chick, Estella Warren).

Tim Burton rocks. This will be good, I hope.

[CMJ]

I'm very optimistic about it. Burton has a very cool visual style that should lend itself well to POTA.

[Jedieb]

I was just watching Sleepy Hollow again this weekend on Showtime. Burton does have a unique visual style. It will be interesting to see what his POTA looks like. It won't be your generic Hollywood version that's for sure.

[CMJ]

No kidding. Burton is a very expressionistic director...much like from the old German silent cinema of the 20's and 30's. SLEEPY HOLLOW has so MUCH of that style it's amazing. I think he was a German Director in a previous life. :)

[Jedi Master Kyle]

Isn't there a scene with monkey-human love? Now that will be something to see! :lol:

[CMJ]

I heard that scene got cut actually.

[buff jedi 2]

Master kyle got monkey love :)

I cant wait until it opens !!!!! Its the only movie of the year I have really given any thought to go see. I loved the org. Only bad think about it is ,it will be like watching a family get together for me :( BOY you should see my family. uncle harold WHEEEWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!

buffjedi/wookieboy

[foxdvd]

if it is half as good as Monkey Bone, it will be big!

[Darth23]

Aw Man!

My Planet of the Apes vs Planet of the Apes thread never went posted last night!

:p

[Jedi Master Carr]

POTA could be awesome (I hope it is) But I have reservations right now mostly because its a remake of a classic movie which I rarely like (Psycho comes to mind). The good thing is they are no trying to dupicate the orignial which at least means the story will be different. Still I am going to wait and see how some of the critics view to get a better idea of how good it is.

[Jedi Master Kyle]

Down with the critics!
Pump your fist in defiance!

I need a vacation....

[JonathanLB]

It's not a "remake" as Tim Burton would say, it's a "re-imagining" of the entire idea. ;)

NOT a typical remake. It's much different. Anyway, the original was archaic, this movie will be totally advanced.

I think all classic films should just be remade with color, big budgets, and new directors, that way I don't have to go watch those lousy, slow-paced, old, black and white movies just because they are "classics," haha. j/k

[CMJ]

I'm gonna have to bite my tongue on that one Jon. Though I feel like you deserve a tongue lashing. I'll just say this....you're gonna have to get used to watching older films if you're a film student, because you'll watch a hell of alot of them.....

[buff jedi 2]

Any Idea if the Episode 2 trailer will run with the Apes ??


buffjedi/wookieboy

[Darth23]

No it will not. That was a rumor / Fox wish. There isn't even a trailer yet and the Lucas peopel have recently sad that the trailer will be done on the fall, "about the same time as the last one". Which could put it before the Harry potter movie.

At Comic Con in SD this weekend they showed what was basically a raw footage tralier - lots of blue screen.

[Jedieb]

He's just kidding CMJ. Although he probably does think there's some truth in his joke. Jon will learn great films didn't wait for him to be born before they were made. Just your typical young whipersnaper! ;)

No trailer buff. We'll see one around Thanksgiving probably. Heck, we'll probably see it on the net or Entertainment Tonight before we see it in theaters.

[JonathanLB]

Thanks for the clarification, Jedieb, haha, I was just kidding! Sheesh :)

I've seen lots of good, older films actually. I will say, though, that I much prefer faster paced movies than something like China Town, for instance (have you all seen that?). I was just bored to tears with that movie and so was my friend who watched it with me. Maybe that was classic cinema back then, but now it just moves far too slowly to be interesting. The basic plot was alright, nothing wonderful, but its execution was painful.

Old films can be awesome, at least the best ones, and they play just as well today basically as they did back then, but some old films, just like some new ones, suck hard. Actually most movies are pretty lousy really. If you go to the video store and look through the shelves, there are SO MANY bad films. The only reason I like almost every new movie I see is because I only am watching the top-of-the-line, $75 million+ films (generally), so that makes for better moviegoing than, say, Jack Frost (the horror movie, not the Michael Caine one; Jack Frost could possibly be THE worst movie in history).

I wouldn't mind watching lots of movies in film school, hehe, that would rock :) That's why I avoid seeing Citizen Kane now, because I hear everyone has to see it at LMU anyway (probably at most film schools).

My dad loves Gone With the Wind, Casablanca, and lots of old movies (he is 59, so he grew up with a lot of the fairly old movies). In fact, he doesn't typically like the newer films as much as old stuff like China Town and all kinds of other stuff, but he said he was not impressed by Citizen Kane at all. He said it's not a bad movie, but it just wasn't anything special, let alone of the greatest movies of all-time. I guarantee I will not consider it one of the best 100 films ever, hehe, mainly because I'm not an 80-year-old film critic (audiences do not care for Kane much, compared to Gone With the Wind, which is a critical and audience favorite even today).

[Jedieb]

I loved Kane, but it did not do particularly well at the B.O. when it was released. However, the film was groundbreaking and an acknowledged influence for many filmmakers. Plus, the crap that Wells had to go through to get the film released is a great story itself. It's kind of sad that Wells peaked at such an early age and was never really able to sustain his film making career.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well Jon I have never really like Citzen Kane either, I admit it is groundbreaking and an important movie but I never really liked. I do like older movies though like Casablanca, most of Hitchcock films, a few westerns mostly John Wayne, some horror/sci-fi movies The Time Machine, War of the Worlds, Invasion of the Body Snatchers and the Day the Earth Stood Still. There are others none that I can think of right now. As far as Planet of the Apes, the first is a classic. Now I am not saying this one won't work, it could (I hope) but it still might fail. Also has anybody read the original novel by Pierre Boulle. I know very little about it except that the novels were considred very popular when they were first released, but I was wondering how it compared to the original novel. If the first movie really changed it then I see where they could make changes in this version like with the new adaptation of The Time Machine.

[JonathanLB]

Yeah Hitchcock rules. I like his work, or what I've seen. Westerns are cool. I watched tons of them when I was younger especially.

[CMJ]

KANE is a wierd mistress. I've watched it at least a dozen times, in classes and otherwise. Sometimes in completely enthralls me and sometimes I feel rather bored. I must say that it is one of the best films I have ever seen though. Jon, give it a chance. There really is a hell of alot in that film to digest.

As for CHINATOWN...I can't totally argue with you, since I've never seen the whole film. I've watched bits and peices in different classes I've had. BUT what I have seen has blown me away(it's a noir in the tradition of LA CONFIDENTIAL, maybe even better)...eventually I need to watch the whole dang film....

[JonathanLB]

Ugg, it's terrible. LA Confidential is a wonderfully directed film, a masterpiece, one of the best of its year, and certainly the best reviewed picture (eat it, Titanic). The movie has action, great acting, it's interesting, and FAR superior to that POS China Town. Ugg, god that movie was the most boring thing I have ever seen.

[Force Master Hunter]

I dont know about Citizen Kane. I dont really like it... but I have to acknowledge it is a bloody good film, with one hell of a deep story. Spend all those years trying to find happiness and comfort in riches and power, to dsiscover it meant nothing - Rosebud being the symbol of when he was truly happy and it's vuning being hugely symbolic as well.

Gives me the creeps, but it's an incredible masterpiece. Odd that I dont like it, yet...... I have to say it deserves to be rated as one of the best ever.

Hitchcock really understood moviemaking and was a master of camera angles, lighting and sound. One of the reasons his movies can be so scary is the subsonics in the soundtrack that can induce fear and panic into someone without them knowing. Also, he just had such good ideas, simple ones taht he executed well. I wonder how often filmakers realise this can be the key to a good movie - take your idea, keep it simple but EXECUTE well. When I watch Unbreakable, I was reminded of Hitchcock the way Night used different camera angles to help tell the story of the movie, plus lighting effects. Simple idea, executed brilliantly. Sixth Sense was a masterstroke along those lines. What pity audiences as a whole want bright flashy things and big explosions. I'm finding I want plot and story, well filmed now. I am shying away from things like Tomb Raider, Final Fantasy and Pearl Harbour, to Sixth Sense, Truman Show and Memento - which I rally want to see but I have not been able to get to :(

I think the Matrix will go down as a classic in years to come actually. Yes, bright shiney things, but it really had a story that made you think. it disproves that an action movie cant have a decent plot. Or then again, how about Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon? That's one of those must see movies as well. And again, action with a decent plot and story.

Anyway, I hope POTA is good.

[JonathanLB]

I think any movie you don't like cannot be good. As I've argued before, goodness is an opinion of quality, as is whether you like or dislike a movie, and since both are subjective, both are the same thing and inseparable.

If you don't like a movie, it's not a good movie in that it couldn't succeed at creating enjoyment, which is what movies are supposed to do, regardless of whether they have a happy or sad ending, they should at least be enjoyable in some way. Either they make you think, or they are uplifting, or just plain entertaining, the goal of movies is to entertain and maybe ultimately to inspire, at their best.

From what it sounds like, Kane is definitely not a very good movie. I'd give it a chance just like I do anything, but for the AFI to vote THAT thing as #1 is an insult to the rest of the filmmakers. Their list is wacked out anyway, so who cares, lol.

[ReaperFett]

Matrix will never be a classic, as people will suss it out.


And CTHD has been done before, this is just the first hyped one. The ones most deserving of the word classic (hard Boiled, THe Killer, A Better Tommorow etc) will never get that title, simply because they arent mainstream. Noones seen them

[CMJ]

Jon lets not get into an argument...BUT I'd say your definition of a great film is rather lacking. BTW KANE is awesome, because it's so deep. Films that can be read on deeper levels(i.e. KANE, A.I., etc...) are always an achievement, even if they are not entirely successful BECAUSE they are ambitious. Films that just take you on a "ride" can be good...but thats not what cinema at it's best is really about.

BTW I've seen the whole first act of CHINATOWN(had to watch it in my screenwriting class last year)...and I'd say it has maybe the best opening act EVER in a film, which is why I fight FOR the film even though I've never seen it in it's entirity. I have little doubt when I see the whole film I'd be in complete disagreement with your assessment.....

[Jedieb]

Jon you're kidding right? FMH has mixed feelings about kane but still recognizes it as a bloody good film. You take this and tell him his mixed feeling are proof that it's not a good film and that AFI insults people when they place it at the top of their list? That doesn't make any sense. AFI isn't the only group or individual that's put Kane at the top or near the top of their all time list. It's an incredibly deep story of a man's obsession with being loved and his lifelong quest to literally purchase that love. The symbolic devices that Wells used were brilliant, everything from the snow globe to the sled. Critics, directors, and film lovers adore this movie for valid and obvious reasons. Your free to not like it but dismissing it because you don't like it just flies in the face of logic. And how much money it made is irrelevant. By that rationale then The Mummy Returns is twice as good as AI. And you can bring in the international figures if you want but they won't change the domestic ones and what they suggest with that money equals quality logic. CK has passed a much more relevant test than money, time. 50 plus years and we're STILL talking about it. People will be talking about films like The Mummy Returns about as much as they talk about the old 40's mummy films; mildly entertaining farces, but not great examples of filmmaking.

I like AFI's list. There are tons of great films on there, ANH included. The list just covers a longer period of time than most of us are use to, maybe that's why it seems whacked to you.

And I'm STILL waiting for my birthday greeting dagnabit! Get your butt over to that thread. Those Pearls Of Wisdom will change your life! ;)

[CMJ]

I'm thinking we could have a very interesting thread devoted to analyzing KANE.

As far as the AFI putting KANE at the top of their list,,,,they were hardly the first. I believe the first instance was in the 60's when a international group on critics/filmmakers made their top 10 list of all-time(as a side note I don't remember what this organization is called, but they meet like every 5 years and KANE is always #1). Since that time, it has been on, like Jedieb said, just about every "Best ever" list you can think of.

The film is also FULL of great quotes.....not all of these are exact, but their basis is their. BTW...I've only scratched the surface of them....

"Rosebud"

"Old age, it's the only disease you don't look forward to being cured of."

"Are you sure you don't happen to have a cigar."

"This nurse has the silly idea of keeping me alive."(something to that effect...very effective & hilarious in the film)

"Six years ago I saw a picture in a window of the greatest newsman ever assembled. I was like a kid in a candystore. Well now I've got my candy...all of it. Print another one and send it to the Examiner."

"He happens to be the President, not you./That is a problem that will be fixed soon enough"

"I'm not some dog that you can control...I AM CHARLES FOSTER KANE!!"

"You create the pictures, I'll create the war."

"If the headlne is big enough it makes the story important enough."

"I need this paper to be as important to this city as the gas in that light/What are you gonna do Charlie/Declaration of Principles....Don't laugh Leeland."

"It's not hard to make alot of money, if all you want is to make alot of money."

"If I wasn't his friend he never had one, and he treated me like a swine."

"If I hadn't been very rich, I might have been a truley great man."

[Jedieb]

Those are great CMJ. Do you remember what the writer (Munch?) said when he accepted the Oscar he and Wells were given for Best Screenplay? Something to the effect of; "Since Orson wasn't there when the screenplay was written I have no problem accepting the award in his absense."

[foxdvd]

First…Chinatown is one of the best movies of all time, a solid 4 star masterpiece in everyway. I am actually surprised you did not like it Jon! The acting and writing are brilliant. No spoilers, but the ending is the only thing I can think of that would put some people off, because it seems almost and after-thought.

Citizen Cane is another masterpiece, but one that I do not particularly enjoy. I, as many above, can appreciate the mastery in its making, but find the overall experience to be lacking. Orson Welles has done better movies, with “Touch of Evil” being his best.

A movie not made by Orson, but staring him, is “The Third Man.” This is an other classic movie that holds up to anything done today. In fact, of all the movies I am talking about, I recommend this one the most.

Of course, Hitchcock films need no introduction or review. His movies are absolutely brilliant, from his popular works, to even his films he did in before coming to America.

There are so many great films from the past that deserve to be mentioned with any great movie. The Manchurian Candidate, Rififi, The Maltese Falcon, and so forth…

[CMJ]

TOUCH OF EVIL is really good fox. I wouldn't consider it his best...but it has some great stuff in it. The opening shot is still impressive....even today.

The list you provided has some great stuff, though I've always found MALETESE FALCON to be pretty overrated. Of course I think Huston is a pretty overrated director, so maybe thats part of it.

I could go on forever about Hitch....so I probably shouldn't even start. :)

[CMJ]

Welles apparently had the bright idea. Munch really wrote it...and Welles kinda polished it up. So Welles shouldn't have really gotten squat....of course it's nice he SOMETHING for that film since HOW GREEN WAS MY VALLEY won everything else that year. Unfortunately I've never seen that film, though I've heard it's pretty good.

[foxdvd]

you have seen the full cut of TOUCH OF EVIL right CMJ? I am sure you have...it is so much better the way he wanted it..

Of course, there are also great movies from Japan at the time, like Seven Samurai, which is seems to be well liked by Star Wars fans.

[foxdvd]

John Huston not a great director?! I know a guy named Jon Huston, I once asked him what he thought his fav movie was that he made, and he looked at me like "huh?" ....guess he does not like my humor...

I just love Huston...

African Queen, Maltese Falcon, Treasure of the Sierra Madre, Key Largo, THESE ARE GREAT!

[CMJ]

I must admit I never saw AFRICAN QUEEN or SIERRA MADRE. We watched MOULIN ROUGE which I felt was pretty lame. We watched another Huston film in Art of Film that I didn't care for either...so I was 0-3 on Huston. I might like some of his others better you are correct....

[ReaperFett]

wasnt Moulin Rouge Baz Luhrman, or is this another?

[CMJ]

I've only seen the theatrical version of TOUCH OF EVIL. I didn't see the re-edited version that came out like 2 years ago. I am very curious about it though. I really did dig the original version however....very gritty. The only (kinda)bad thing was Heston playing a Hispanic man...that just didn't work for me. :)

[Jedieb]

It kind of bugs me when Hispanic characters are played by non-hispanics too, but Touch of Evil isn't one of those instances. Unlike The Specialist where Eric Roberts and Rod Stieger both played Hispanic character and weren't the least bit convincing. I can see a reason for this kind of nonsense in the 50's and 60's, but not the 80's and 90's. Just rewrite the characters dammit! But I digress....

I love John Huston!!!! The African Queen and the Treasure of the Sierra Madre are two of my all time favorites. Did you know that before Bogart died of cancer he was scheduled to make another film with Huston? Huston was one of his favorite directors and it seemed they made magic whenever they got together. I've also heard of the new version of Touch of Evil with the original begining. NPR did a story on it when it first came out. I'd really like to catch that but I just don't have the time. Maybe when I finally get a DVD player I'll rent it.

[CMJ]

Different version Reaper....from like '52 or so I think. It was about Talouse Latrec

[foxdvd]

Touch of Evil..changes..they are good because the movie was cut in a way that he did not want..this was the version he wanted..


while the new opening shot has been changed, it is more then just that..it is 111 minutes long..and the org. version was only 98 minutes...