One problem I have with the new Musketeer's movie

[foxdvd]

Ok, I finally saw a trailer for the new Musketeers movie. I was really excited about the look of the movie, and Tim Roth is one of my favorite actors. I was a little disappointed by the PG-13 rating, because I feel that if you are going to do ANOTHER Musketeer movie, you should try something new, and a PG-13 rating is not going to let you. Anyway on to my problem.

I can think of only 1 other person here I am sure noticed this, but is it just me or is the last scene they show with the ladders a BLATENT rip-off of the brilliant ending to “Once Upon a Time in China” one of my all time favorite movies? I am always one to point out that directors borrow from each other all the time. When a smaller movie uses a part of a bigger movie, it might not be original, but at least most realize were they got it from. Once Upon a Time in China is not a big movie in America. People are NOT going to know it came from that movie. If they take that scene with the ladders as far as they do in OUATIC, and it is very popular, and they give no credit where credit is due, they will have shown themselves to be nothing but leaches.

Like I said, I am all for other people using other techniques from other movies. It happens all the time, and even if it is from a movie few know of, a small camera move, an idea or line is not major. The ending to OUATIC is.

Anyone else notice this? I may be wrong, it might just be a short few scenes, and in truth the basic premise did originally come from a silent film, though silent movies never took it to the level OUATIC did, and they did not use those camera angels that the new Musketeer movie seems to rip off.

[JonathanLB]

Yeah I obviously recognized it looks very similar to that, but I am still super excited about this movie!

Anyway, Once Upon A Time in China is my second favorite Hong Kong action movie of all time, behind its first sequel, and it's one of the best MOVIES in general too, so I doubt Musketeer, as good as it will probably be, can touch OUATIC :)

If you've not seen the first two films, come on! Just buy them and see them, lol. Honestly those two movies not only have strong plots, but the action is UNRIVALED. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon has nothing on Once Upon A Time in China II. I did, however, think CTHD had the best overall fight scene ever (in the dojo), but OUATIC II has FAR more great fight scenes than CTHD. Although, I'd say Tiger wins on cinematography and music probably. It's still my third favorite HK action film.

[foxdvd]

well I found out last night that the guy who plays Clubfoot in the OUATIC movies ( 3-6) is the guy who actually is the action director for this movie..so that calms me down a bit..

[Jedi Master Carr]

What problem do you have with a PG-13 rating? Actually this is the first Musketeer movie to have that rating the rest were all PG I believe including Disney's awful version. The best version was actually the one in the 70's staring Oliver Reed, Michael York, Charlton Heston, Richard chamberland, and star Wars alumm Christopher Lee and that one while violent was PG. I would not want to see an R rating it would fit Dumas' book. His novel had no nudity in no sex just swashbuckling violence. Still, this new movie is taking a new approach with the plot which I really like. The villain is different from all the movies. Tim Roth is playing Febert(sp) who I think is some nobelman. In most of the movies the villain is Richelieu who is shown in most versions as an evil scheming tyrant. This new version shows him in his more historical form as prime minister looking out for the best interests of France. Since I did my thesis on him, I am really looking foward to this movie and maybe if I decided to try and get my thesis published I could add this movie into showing how Hollywood has finally showed the real Richelieu.

[foxdvd]

His novel had no nudity in no sex just swashbuckling violence.

of course, there is NO nead for nudity or the F-word...but violence is R rated if they show you the effects of it. Hollywood edits around those and gives you a picture of something happy. I have seen this many times with all the other Musketeer movies, and it would be nice to see one that keeps the style of the book, but shows you what your mind makes up when you read a book with action.....

[ReaperFett]

Best example is to compare the action in Hard Boiled to Mission: Impossible 2

[Jedi Master Carr]

I understand what you meant but I would prefer the type of violence they did in 1970's version, it was bloody but not gory there is a difference IMO. I okay with them showing blood but we don't need to see them lobbing heads off. I know that was not shown in the book and I would prefer it be left out of the movie. What I don't want more that though is comical violence like we was in Disney's version. That movie made a mockery of the Musketeers from Chris O'Donnell's terrible portrayal as D'Artagan to Tim Curry's playing Richelieu as a Buffon. Not to mention how loose of a view they took with history making Louis XIII (who was very incompetent) look like an intelligent man and then have Richelieu removed from power at the end of the movie (believe me if had France would have fallen apart and would not have become the dominant country in Europe like it was under Louis XIV). I hopeful that this new version is more in spirt with the other movies especially the 70 version and the even the one back in the late 40's staring Gene Kelly and Vincent Price which was at least in the Dumas mold.

[foxdvd]

I understand what you meant but I would prefer the type of violence they did in 1970's version, it was bloody but not gory there is a difference IMO.

don't get me wrong, I am not wanting heads being chopped off. When you show violence, and the aftermath of that violence, it is going to get an R rating. The number one thing a movie does to get a PG-13 rating, besides not showing the weapons entering the bodies, is to not show the agonizing aftermath of the damage. The pain and expression, the rolling, the screaming, these are all things a person does when they die. Once again I am not talking about Saving Private Ryan here, but more along the lines of Rob Roy, without the graphic rape.

Now if this was the first or second Musketeer movie, I could understand why they would not want to make a movie that will draw in 13 year olds. The fact is this is just one more of MANY Musketeer movies, and it would be nice if they took it in a different direction then the ones from the 70’s, and of course the really bad version you talked about.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I understand what you mean now but I also understand why the studio is going for PG-13, so they can make more money and that is the only reason why unfourtunately. Still, I am hopefull the movie's plot is different from the others and maybe it will at least be more historically accurate than the last one. If their characterization of Richelieu is any indication I think it will be. But I guess it is hard to tell Hollywood never really tries to be accurate. Oh by the way, Fox have you seen the trailer for the Count of Monte Cristo? I haven't seen it yet and I was curious how it looked. Its got a great cast Guy Pierce, Richard Harris, and Jim Caviezel and it is IMO Dumas's best book. But Disney is making it and that fact alone worries me.

[foxdvd]

I did not even know a Count of Monte Cristo movie was being made! Wow, that could be cool, but with Disney it is hit and miss. Is it a Disney movie, or one of their other names? Guy is an amazing actor...so that is a plus already.


looking up the movie Kevin Reynolds directed it..the same guy who did Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves...and Waterworld..(at least the better first half)...so it is still up in the air if it will be good or not...PG-13 also.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I am not sure if its Disney or Touchstone. I am also worried about Reynolds directing it. He is not a bad director, the problems with Wateworld were all Costner's fault, Reynolds left half way through shooting (the two men did not get a long) One of his movies got a lot of critical claim (at least I think) Rai Paiur(sp) but nobody saw it. Still, it has a great cast so it will be interesting to see how works out especially since this is the first American film adaptation since 1934.

[Mu Satach 2]

Seen the trailer to The Count of Monte Cristo... had absolutely no clue it had any ties to Disney at all... didn't look anything like Disney material... in fact looked damn impressive... sent chills up and down my spine. Absolutely adore that book.

Haven't seen a trailer for the 3 Musket men... and I have yet to see Once Upon a Time in China... though it's sitting on top of my VCR at home as I rented it last time I was at the video store... just haven't had time to watch it soooooo... I won't comment on the ladder fight... and director borrowings...

yet... >=)

[foxdvd]

PLEASE TELL ME YOU DO NOT HAVE THE AMERICAN DUB OF THAT MOVIE...WITH THE WORST DUB JOB EVER...>AND OVER 45 MINUTES CUT FROM THE MOVIE....no!!!!!

I am talking about OUATIC..

[Darth23]

You're such a purist. :p

[Mu Satach 2]

Fox chill... :lol:

You know, even if I don't have that version I'm gonna have to see it now just cause you've spazzed. ;)

[foxdvd]

Don't get me wrong.....I mean take Cowboy Bebop is an amazing work of anime, but the english dub is as good as the org. Japanese work....It is just in this case, OUATIC, the english dub is a joke. On top of that they cut 45 minutes from the movie...

[foxdvd]

You know, even if I don't have that version I'm gonna have to see it now just cause you've spazzed.

"COUGH...oh! MY HEART!" ***foxdvd falls to the floor in pain*** "someone calla Dr."

[JonathanLB]

I bought Once Upon A Time in China III yesterday in Vegas (I was ripped off, but that's ok).

Yeah, I just read in EW again that the dude who directed the action in Once Upon A Time in China also did The Musketeer's action. I know you mentioned that, but I guess I just didn't put it together, haha. Wow, that is SO COOL.

Honestly, those first two films are THE GREATEST Hong Kong action movies around, I think. Once Upon A Time in China is one of the greatest movies ever made, and its sequel is better, IMO.

[foxdvd]

I am starting to see that as well Jon..that "the guy who did the action for this movie is the one that did the action for OUATIC." Yahoo has posted this twice now. I think they are making the same mistake as they did with Charlies Angels. (saying Woo-ping did the action when in fact his brother did) They guy who did the action for The Musketeer is the actor who played Clubfoot in OUATIC 3-6. As far as I know, he has never been an action choreographer before, except for a small Hong Kong movie, (Blacksheep Affair) and the really bad Double Team with Dennis Rodman. I can see how they are trying to make people think that the director of OUATIC is doing the action, but that is not the case.


The first two OUATIC china movies are the best of the bunch, with 6 being the third best (3-5 are not that great, though you need to see 3 before you see the brilliant 6)..and the guy who did the action for the first movie is Tsui Hark himself, and the guy who did the action for the second movie is of course the man behind the action in CTHD, and a great many other great action movies, Woo-ping Yuen.

[Hart Kenobi]

I'm looking forward to this movie. Looks great. If I'm going to watch a fight movie, they might as well go all out.

[JonathanLB]

You mean Yuen-Woo Ping? Yeah, he's probably the best I think...

Well, I've read in many places that the dude who did Once Upon A Time in China also is doing the action for The Musketeer, so they must be screwing up the facts again.

[foxdvd]

Yeah Yuen-Woo Ping...it goes both ways....

Anyone who does the action for

Drunken Master
Iron Monkey
Once Upon a Time in China 2
Fist of Legend
The Matrix
Crouching Tiger Hiden Dragon
Tai Chi Master
God of Gamblers III


is the GOD of action!