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Atreyu
Sep 9th, 2001, 12:14:25 AM
Although I think the writer exaggerates HP's and LOTR's effect on SW, it's an interesting read:


The next big thing: Tolkien becomes lord of the spin-offs
By Louise Jury, Media Correspondent
08 September 2001
Internal links

Fantasy, Recovery, Consolation and Escape (and that's just for adults)
It could be magic. Or it could simply be the power of Hollywood. JRR Tolkien's extraordinary saga of wizardry and magic, The Lord of the Rings, has long been regarded as a 20th-century classic. Voted the people's favourite in poll after poll, for decades its publishers have been able to bank on annual sales of half a million.

But now the adventures of Frodo Baggins and Gandalf the wizard are proving so lucrative to HarperCollins that, without spending a penny on promotion or marketing, they have seen sales of the books soar by 400 per cent in a single year.

This phenomenon may have something to do with the $300m (£200m) movie version of The Lord of the Rings due to open in Britain and the US on 19 December. Driven by the excitement surrounding the film, interest in Tolkien's Middle Earth saga has been stirred to an unprecedented degree.

Only now are copies of the book branded with stills from the film replacing the author's distinctive drawings on the cover, and the customary range of picture-led tie-in titles will only be unveiled in November. But in the past two months alone, stores have sold more copies of The Lord of the Rings than the annual total of only a couple of years ago.

A constant buzz has surrounded the Rings trilogy since the director Peter Jackson began 15 months of filming in New Zealand in 1999 in one of the most ambitious book-to-film adaptations of all time.

All of this has been generated with a subtle trickle of publicity, via the internet and a small number of carefully controlled events, contrasting sharply with the deafening fanfare of promotion surrounding Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, the winter's other blockbuster.

Yet while the Harry v Hobbit battle is the one in the public eye, industry observers are suggesting that the real fight will be that faced by George Lucas, maker of the Star Wars movies.

With the Lord of the Rings trilogy being released over the next three Christmases, Mr Lucas risks his follow-ups to the poorly received Phantom Menace being eclipsed by a story started by an Oxford academic as long ago as 1917.

Using 20,000 extras and more than 1,200 computer-generated special effects, the three-film project stars Sir Ian McKellen as the good wizard Gandalf, Sir Ian Holm as Bilbo Baggins, Cate Blanchett as the elf queen Galadriel and Christopher Lee as the bad wizard Saruman. The second film in the sequence will be released in December next year with the third 12 months later.

It has already captured the imagination of both Tolkien buffs and movie fans. When the first trailer was broadcast on the internet, it prompted an unprecedented 1.7 million hits in the first 24 hours – nearly twice that for Phantom Menace. The official website has now received 420 million hits. But nobody predicted this advance surge of interest in the original written word.

David Brawn, the publishing director of HarperCollins' Tolkien list, said yesterday: "We thought we would sell books, but not until the film came out. Yet it seems people are reading them now to get up to speed."

They had known there was huge anticipation and book sales in New Zealand were excellent from the moment filming began. "But we can't quite keep up with how it's going," Mr Brawn said. "The film has given Lord of the Rings a currency which was undreamt of even a couple of years ago."

The first book in the trilogy was published in 1954 and the sequence has notched up an estimated 100 million sales worldwide in 50 languages. It was named book of the century in a 1997 Waterstone's poll.

Humphrey Carpenter, who wrote a biography of Tolkien, said yesterday that the books were pioneering. "There is so much fantasy around now, but there had been nothing like it before, that was so substantial and had to be taken seriously."

Mr Carpenter, who as a schoolboy met Tolkien and described him as "charming ... rather like a hobbit himself", said he would be going to see the movie. "It sounds as if it's been done lavishly, although Tolkien thought it wouldn't transfer to another medium." The writer's surviving three children have said they will not be going, as part of a policy of rarely commenting on their father and his legacy.

But members of the Tolkien Society, which is dedicated to encouraging interest in his work, are keen. Ian Collier, the society's spokesman, said it was "no bad thing because it's bringing people to the books". Asked to explain the appeal of The Lord of the Rings, he said: "For me, it's the magic, the wonder and enticement, the people, what is going on, where they are. You get really caught up in it."

With the arrival of Harry Potter on the big screen on 4 November, David Brawn said comparisons between the two films were inevitable but not entirely fair. "They're both family films and they're both must-see films," he said. But the trailers already running in cinemas showed the differences. "Harry Potter has a real sense of magic and mystery. But Lord of the Rings is faster-moving, quite dark, and plays up the drama."

Cam Winstanley, features editor of Total Film magazine, which includes Lord of the Rings posters in this month's edition, said the real point of comparison was with the Star Wars phenomenon. "Certainly LucasFilms are treating this trilogy as very serious competition to the next Star Wars film," he said. Apart from the Bible, Lord of the Rings is one of the biggest-selling books of all time. You've got this entire mythology behind it. It's a marketing dream."

Which leaves David Brawn from HarperCollins with just one headache: "We and the Tolkien family are worried that there is a genuine risk of burn-out, that at the end of it, there will be nobody left to read this book and we'll then suffer," he said. "Once every household has a copy of the book, there's nobody else to sell it to."

Atreyu
Sep 9th, 2001, 12:17:05 AM
And to end off, here's a nice little picture, which I'll leave to you to figure out. :)

http://img-www.theonering.net/images/scrapbook/1799.jpg

Force Master Hunter
Sep 9th, 2001, 12:44:31 AM
Ordarin, the Mountain of Fire, the plains of Mordor. Probably at the border of Gondor.

I can say - I am sooooooo looking forward to LOTR. It looks visually stunning for starters, every picture I have seen and trailer has been utterly beautiful to look at. If it's even close to the books.... this is goign to be huge.

Interesting note on how book sales have picked up. I actually was intending to go update my falling apart copy and refresh my memory too. All in all, what I have seen makes me believe jackson may well have gone close to placing LOTR on film.

Whats the bet there will be lineups?

Jedi Master Carr
Sep 9th, 2001, 01:37:05 AM
I can't wait for LOTR either and I agree about the author mentioning SW I can't understand why he even mentioned. To me there is plenty of room for both LOTR and SW to succeed.

JonathanLB
Sep 9th, 2001, 03:20:14 AM
lol, yeah no kidding.

Anyway, LOTR owns the book world for fantasy and SW owns the movie world. Both can exist in each others realms, but LOTR will always be better as a book probably and SW better in movie form...

:)

Doc Milo
Sep 9th, 2001, 03:29:46 AM
Just a few things:

Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone? Isn't it Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone?

And The Phantome Menace "poorly recieved"???

How many poorly recieved movies make over 400m domestic?

I can't wait for LOTR either. And yes, there is room for both. They'll be separated by almost half a year, anyway!

Darth23
Sep 9th, 2001, 04:36:33 AM
I think the whole competition thing s BS. They woudln't have ahd the LOTR cast visit the Star Wars set if there was a major competition, even if some of the cast felt there wasa subtext of competition.

It's as bad as the Star Wars vs Star Trek, or Star Wars vs The Matrix, or Star Wars vs the latest Bog Thing.

It's a false division. I'd say that most Star Wars fans are looking forward to the LOTR movies, and many Tolkien fans like or love Star Wars also.

Jedieb
Sep 9th, 2001, 11:59:27 AM
The different release times really put a damper on any competition the two films could have had. In fact, the release times probably help BOTH films by giving fans a chance to catch their breath and enjoy both. Think about it, it's a safe bet to say that these movies have an overlapping fan base. Most Tolkien fans will end up seeing AOTC and the same can be said for most SW fans. It's that large middle ground audience that SW has always been able to capture that's still up for grabs. Will casual movie goers who've always bought tickets to SW blockbusters buy tickets to LOTR? Will them buy them in SW type amounts? That will be interesting to watch. If LOTR is a solid hit then we may see $200M+ winter numbers. But if it generates SW type excitement then we may see $400M-$600M numbers. It's going to be an interesting winter B.O. for sure.

Atreyu
Sep 9th, 2001, 07:22:00 PM
Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone? Isn't it Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone?
Doc, one name is used in Britain, and the other in America. I have no idea why they use 2 different names.


And The Phantome Menace "poorly recieved"???
I think they may have been referring to the critical response (Rotten Tomatoes had a 46% rating I think).

My guess is that some think that TPM was a one off, and Episode's II and III will be at risk unless Lucas gets his act together and makes a good movie or 2.

Hey, who knows how all these people think? :)

LOTR is currently the film I'm most looking forward to, so I pray to God it's gonna be good. Not just for my sake, but for the remaining films in the trilogy as well.

It's just a pity they're having to trim back a few scenes here and there to fit the PG-13 rating, but they're going to put them back in the DVD, so all is not lost. :)

JonathanLB
Sep 9th, 2001, 09:34:50 PM
I missed the TPM poorly received comment, LOL.

That's pretty hilarious. Yeah, it was very poorly received, so much so that it was in the top ten for eleven weeks, top twenty for twenty-two weeks, and became the highest grossing summer movie in history (after one release).

Doc Milo
Sep 9th, 2001, 11:49:15 PM
Doc, one name is used in Britain, and the other in America. I have no idea why they use 2 different names.

I didn't know that! Learn something new everyday, I guess. Not sure it makes much sense to me why they'd use two different names...

Atreyu
Sep 10th, 2001, 12:45:13 AM
Actually, it may have been done for marketing reasons. Maybe the publisher's figured having 'Sorceror' in the title would sell better in the US than 'Philosopher'.

I prefer 'Philosopher' myself. :)

JonathanLB
Sep 10th, 2001, 01:33:30 AM
Philosopher sounds really stupid. I can't believe they call it that in the UK.

I was better off before I knew that, ugg. The philosophers stone? Hahahaha, that makes no sense whatsoever. Oh man, they really do have everything backwards in the UK.

Darth23
Sep 10th, 2001, 11:01:30 AM
thanx Jon.

Doesn't the term Philosopher's Stone have some signifigance. Isnt' it like a King Author thing or something?



Found on some website:

"The stone, also referred to as the "tincture," or the "powder" (Greek xerion, which passed through Latin into Arabic as elixir), was allied to an elixir of life, believed by alchemists to be a liquid derived from it. Inasmuch as alchemy was concerned not only with the search for a method of upgrading less valuable metals but also of perfecting the human soul, the philosopher's stone was thought to cure illnesses, prolong life, and bring about spiritual revitalization. The philosopher's stone, described variously, was sometimes said to be a common substance, found everywhere but unrecognized and unappreciated." (Encyc. Brit., 15th ed., 1976)

Maybe if there was a movie called Indiana Jones and the Philosopher's Stone it would suit some people more. :D


[Off Topic - You know, that's a mythical element the Star Wars movies haven't used yet - The Magic Potion or Elixir. Maybe we'll see it soon]

Jedieb
Sep 10th, 2001, 01:35:39 PM
Well there's the Kaibur (sp?) Crytal that Alan Dean Foster ended up using in Splinter of the Mind's Eye. Lucas had the crystal in one of his early draft's for Star Wars. It was suppose to amplify the Force and give the user even greater Force powers. I for one was glad he dropped it from the story. The idea that a Jedi or Sith's power was dependent on whether they possessed a magical crystal took away from the Force and the INDIVDUALS that use its power.

But who knows, we may see it yet in EP2 or EP3. Lucas reuses ideas and characters all the time. I hope he stays away from this one.

Darth23
Oct 2nd, 2001, 08:07:36 AM
"Splinter of the Mind's Eye"......

bad flashbacks. Actually I didn't really HATE the book, I just thought it was pretty mediocre.

RHJediKnight
Oct 2nd, 2001, 10:49:55 PM
Oh man, I can't wait for The Fellowship of the Ring. I've seen the new trailer several times, and it's just incredible. The movies, I hope, are going to be excellent! I can't believe I've waited this long before reading these books, they're really good. I'm in the middle of The Two Towers right now, it's pretty cool so far, but I haven't gotten far enough into it quite yet I think. I'll be getting The Return of the King later this month, too.

Personally, I don't really care about Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (yes, Philosopher's Stone sounds dumb). If it's successful, good for it; if it isn't, eh, doesn't matter to me. Right now, the only two movies I care about are Attack of the Clones and The Fellowship of the Ring. December 19th and May 22nd are taking too long to get here!

BTW...whadya guys think of my avatar? :D

Champion of the Force
Oct 3rd, 2001, 10:47:28 PM
Originally posted by RHJediKnight
Personally, I don't really care about Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (yes, Philosopher's Stone sounds dumb).
I think 'Sorceror's Stone' sounds lame personally. It sounds so unoriginal, if you catch my drift. :)

"Guess what?"
"What?"
"I found out some cool sorceror has created special stone."
"Cool - what's it called?"
"The Sorceror's Stone!"
"Wow!"

:lol

As stated above, the term 'Philosopher's Stone' actually has a special significance in fantasy circles, so it ties in rather nicely.

darth_mcbain
Oct 4th, 2001, 04:26:28 PM
I don't really care too much for the Harry Potter movie, although I might go see it anyway just for kicks. The trailer did seem pretty decent. I've never read any of the books and couldn't really get into it, though.

As for Lord Of The Rings, I'm really excited for that. It looks like they've done a pretty good job from the trailers I've seen. I just finished reading the trilogy for the first time a few months ago and it just whet my appetite even more. It will certainly make the wait for Ep II a little easier to bear...

BTW, I love your icon RHJediKnight... Another Simpsons fan, I trust??? :)

ReaperFett
Oct 4th, 2001, 04:32:11 PM
Splinter was ESB's backup. Had ANH ben poorly recieved, it would have been the next one, straght to TV. Little fact you y'all there :)

Jedieb
Oct 4th, 2001, 05:47:11 PM
Sweet avatar Rh! Did you get the Simpsons DVD yet? Laughs o'plenty!

Where'd you hear that SOTMEye bit? That's news to me.

ReaperFett
Oct 4th, 2001, 06:59:32 PM
Well firstoff, note how it would fit in. The reason it is so Han-less was budget. It is cheaper with less mains.

It is one of those stories that is mentioned everywhere, but never gets noticed until someone points it out. Lucas did have tons of scripts and rewrites, the wily man just had backups :)

Force Master Hunter
Oct 4th, 2001, 07:29:10 PM
I heard SOTME WAS to be the sequel, but Lucas was beaten around the head for it being so much crap.

The story was completely rewirtten, but the screenplay was farmed out to Foster, to make a story out of it. Dont blame Foster for how bad it was, he simply novelised the original script

RHJediKnight
Oct 5th, 2001, 10:36:43 PM
Bigtime Simpsons fan. I don't have the First Season DVD yet, but my birthday's coming up in 6 days and I'm expecting it to be amongst my presents. Can't wait!

And about SOTME...I peeked through a graphic novel/trade paperback/whatever of it, looked dumb, put it back on the rack. Haven't thought about it much since.

Mmm, Forbidden Donut....

BTW, how come I only have 2 posts (besides the obvious answer)? Did I not have to create a new account? I assumed I did, so...

Champion of the Force
Oct 5th, 2001, 10:54:07 PM
You only have 2 posts because you haven't asked me to update your post total yet. :)

But don't bother - I've already done it for you anyway.

RHJediKnight
Oct 8th, 2001, 09:21:55 PM
Oh. Hey, thanks! Sorry, didn't know I had to do that; I was too confused by the sudden change in forums. :)