When will we see Anakin as Darth Vader?

[Darth Hez]

I know this has been partly discussed elsewhere here, but when (and HOW?) do you think Anakin will actually appear as Darth Vader?

I think it will be either the end of episode 2, or the beginning of episode 3. He doesn't need the armour to use the name. If he begins his activities as a Sith before donning the armour (almost a certainty really, since GL has said that he will only be in the armour for about 5 minutes), then he should take the name Darth Vader. To explain my reasoning, here is what I think will happen (broadly).

The clone wars take place in E2, and also see the new Sith. Anakin is becoming distanced from Obi-wan, who does not approve of his relationship with Amidala (though this will only become the subject of tension in the latter half of the movie).
Anakin has a run in with the new Sith somewhere (tatooine?) which results in the death of his mother. Obi-wan steps in and the Sith is defeated, but only into retreat. Obi-wan says Anakin must not allow his anger over his mothers death to overwhelm him.
Somewhere in this palpy contacts Anakin, and sys he can help him have his revenge on the Sith who killed his mother. Cue huge ground battle involving many Jedi at the end, but Anakin spots the Sith watching the battle, and goes after him, leaving Obi-wan behind. They duel, Sith dies, but Anakin has to use his anger, and therefore the Darkside, to win. After the battle, there is a victory celebration, before finally we cut to Coruscant to see Sidious with another dark cloaked figure. Sidious asks if he has constructed his new lightsaber yet, and the figure nods, bringing out and igniting his red bladed saber. In the dim light it is possible the face could be Anakins, but we don't know for sure...

This leaves room for a little bit of a cliffhanger (who is the new Sith?), but also introduces Vader. Pure speculation of course, but lets hear your ideas.

[Bromine]

I'm pretty sure Anakin will have a dual identity as Jedi and Sith for a while, but I don't know if he'll use the name Darth Vader. Could be, though.

[Jedieb]

The novelization of ROTJ gave some background about what happened between Obi-Wan and Anakin. But Lucas wisely cut it from the film so now he's free to dream up whatever he wants. I hadn't really thought of Anakin assuming a dual identity (Sith/Jedi) but it makes sense. At some point Obi-Wan has to try to confront Anakin to bring him back to the light side. This can only be after Anakin has fallen to the dark side and wrecked some serious havoc. To think, some of this will probably be filmed by the end of this summer and we'll have to wait close to 2 years for ILM to fill in the blanks! :(

[Probe Droid]

I don't know about the rest of the stuff, but I'm sure the mother is going to play a pivotal role in Anakin's fall. In TPM he said he had a dream he came back and freed the slaves (seeing the future with The Force) and the whole "Will I ever see you again?" thing when he goes off with Qui-Gon, and his promise to come back all revolve around saving his mother. The relationship between parents and children is very important in SW. Don't forget there is still the mystery of who Anakin's father is. I don't buy the whole virgin birth thing at all. I'm guessing that Sidious/Palpatine is Anakin's real father or at least he will try to convince Anakin of that whether it's true or not(Uncle George IS that corny)to bring him over to the Dark Side.

I'm guessing he'll go rotten in Ep. III. The next chapter should be his training and his budding romance with Amadala. He'll probably be a nice guy in that one, but nonetheless with a lot of anger bubbling under the surface. There’s got to be character development on his part as well as Obi-Wan's and some bonding between them as close friends, which they must have been (anyone notice they always refer to each other by their first names?).

I'm interested if we'll actually get to see him build the suit. We already know he's highly adept mechanically and likes to make things. The original concept for the suit and the mask was to enable Vader, who was an ordinary man, to walk in space, like an astronaut's outfit. But once George saw Ralph McQuarry's (SP?) conceptual drawings for the suit & mask combo, he ditched his original ideas for Vader and left him in the suit permanently with the heavy breathing and all the stuff we know and love. I think it would be a wonderful touch to see him actually constructing the suit for other purposes only to have to be trapped in it for the rest of his life (the slave motif once again).

Seeing him making the Graflex wouldn't be too shabby either.

[Doc Milo]

I, too, am of the opinion that he will be leading a double-life, going by Anakin as a Jedi and Vader as a Sith.

One of the reasons I believe this is that betrayal is a strong theme, especially in ESB, and I think it will be examined again with Vader.

Secondly, if it is true that George only plans to show Vader in the suit for the last five minutes of the movie, and he plans on showing the Jedi Purge (which I think would be important to show) then Anakin has to be going by the name of Vader before he ever dons the suit.

Remember, Obi-Wan in ANH was talking from a certain point of view, not outright lying. So when he said, "A young man named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father."

In that one line we see both reasons I've stated. The theme of betrayal, and the fact that Vader was instrumental in the Jedi Purge. So if Vader in the suit is only seen for the last five minutes (as has been stated before) then Anakin will be going by Vader without the suit, at least some of the time, IMO.

[Brad Kan Obi So Cool]

I heard somewhere that JEJ would do 5 Mins of Dialouge for Vader in SW3, so perhaps we shall see him there.

[Bromine]

Maybe we'l hear him speak from the shadows, but not see him until the final scene.

[mez7]

i dont think anikin will truly be vader till he puts the armor on, so for me will not be considered vader till he does have the armor

and we dont know if george will show anikin fully involved in the jedi purge in EP2/EP3 he may not have anything to do with it till between EP3 and ANH, we'll just have to wait and see

[Darth Hez]

Mez, do you mean you just won't really think of him as Vader until he puts the suit on? I can see that point of view, I suppose it could be hard to disassociate the name Darth Vader with anything other than this huge black mechanical suit. I do think though, that he will officially 'assume', if you like, the name Darth Vader before the suit goes on. But perhaps not, either way it will be interesting to see what GL does.

[mez7]

no i think in the movie noone will call him vader till he gets the armor on,
he will just be anikin to everyone but when he gets the armor sidious will "name" him vader.
since once hes dying and is "reformed" he gets luke to take the helmet off, kind of signifying hes good, i think it will be the ooposite for EP3 he puts on the helmet and it signifies hes bad, i think it will be a nice touch to the series that way.

but if he is vader without the armor i think your right i will have a hard time thinking of him as vader since weve only seen him as vader with the armor so far.

[Jedi Master Kyle]

i'll stick to my theory that darth vader= dark father and therefore won't be called darth vader until he dons the dark armor, unless he wears a black robe.

do you think that anakin pulling the jedi/sith role at the same time will be too similar to the palpy/sidious dual role?

[Brad Kan Obi So Cool]

Vader is only Vader in the armour, that's just how it has to be.

[Doc Milo]

Mez7: since once hes dying and is "reformed" he gets luke to take the helmet off, kind of signifying hes good, i think it will be the ooposite for EP3 he puts on the helmet and it signifies hes bad, i think it will be a nice touch to the series that way.

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There's a problem with this thinking, though: Anakin has to don the armor after he loses a lightsaber duel with Obi-Wan, when Obi-Wan attempts to bring him back to the good side. If Anakin is not bad before the armor, then why would he be fighting Obi-Wan?


Anakin turns to the dark side before donning the armor. He turns bad before donning the armor. Whether or not he goes by the name of Vader, that remains to be seen. But the armor is not going to signify his "badness" -- it can, however, signify that he can no longer turn back from his "badness" That once his body is destroyed and he needs the armor to survive, then he is irredeemable -- at least for the moment :)

I believe he will go by Vader, only because I think he'll have a dual identity, and his role in the Jedi Purge will be to betray the Jedi, lead them into ambushes, etc....

But he will be going by both, Vader and Anakin. Once the suit is necessary, then, and only then, will he be just Vader, with no trace of Anakin left, IMHO.

[Darth Hez]

Thats pretty much my way of thinking Doc, Anakin will be a Sith before he dons the armour. Whether he answers to the name Vader or not remains to be seen (I personally think he will). As for that kind of undercover role being to similar to Palpy/sidious, thats the way the Sith WORK, it has been like that for thousands of years, so no reason to change just because its Anakin.

[Jedi Master Kyle]

why not have a little bit of change for anakin? his life has been anything but typical for a jedi or sith, from his late start in training to his relationship with amidala. anakin will be the one who changes EVERYTHING, and more than once. i don't think george will mind shying away from writing some change for us. that's just my opinion though. even if it is the way the sith work, i'm wondering if GL will want to have things work the same way for both his big bad guys.

[Jedieb]

Maybe Anakin will go by two names. Darth ??? when he first becomes Sidious' apprentice and then Darth Vader when he dons the mask for the first time. He may do this simply to conceal the fact that Anakin Skywalker is still allive. And isn't it strange that the Emperor never goes by the name Darth Sidious in the original trilogy? Maybe, he never reveals himself as Sidious to the galaxy, even after he's taken control.

[Doc Milo]

I thought the same thing about Sidious. But then I realized, he doesn't go by Palpatine either. His name is never mentioned in the movies. He's known just as The Emperor.

But also, I'd think the galaxy wouldn't take too kindly to being ruled by a Sith (if, in fact, they know the history of the Sith and that they were evil) so he would hide that fact publically, while privately maybe he still goes by Sidious.

But then you have Tarkin saying to Vader, "You my friend, are all that is left of their religion." So it seems that Tarkin doesn't know about the Emperor's power....

[Darth Hez]

Interesting idea that Anakin could change his name to Vader only after he wears the armour, and uses another name before. If done well (and I have no idea how this could actually be achieved), it may keep a little element of suspense in Vaders true identity.

[Jedi Master Kyle]

that's true...but the Neimoidians know his name, and know about his sith powers. if tarkin doesn't know, which is obviously true, then it might be that sidious kills every single person who knows his name & identity. so then, how about this; sidious sets up the TF again (whose powers have been reduced greatly), and then palpy decides that their crimes against the galaxy have reached their limits and concludes that they must be made an example of. so palpy takes out his fleet of star destroyers and destroys the TF, thus eliminating Gunray and Haako, and eliminating 2 more people that know who he really is, while at the same time, making it look justified. another bonus is that he eliminates any other competition he may have when he becomes emperor.

[Doc Milo]

You're right about the Trade Federation knowing they were serving the Sith. But did they know that Sidious and Palpatine were the same person? I don't think so. If they did, then they would have known that they were being manipulated for Palpatine's power grab.

They know of the existence of Sidious, but I don't think they know that Sidious is Palpatine.

[Jedi Master Kyle]

can't say that i blame them--nobody knows! :)

[mez7]

but he can still be bad but have a little good in him thats what i was thinking
and getting the armor is signifying his total turn to the dark side, and before he gets it hes kind of tetering on the edge
so my theory still can work,

[Doc Milo]

Then we're pretty much in agreement. I guess we're only disagreeing on when he will go by the name of Vader. :)

[Brad Kan Obi So Cool]

Well, like was said, he'll probably live a double ID until he has to don the armor, then he'll be the Sith, formally known, as Darth Vader. :)