"Bugs" in Original Trilogy?

[yuvalb]

After watching EPs 4-6 one 2 many times, I noticed several things that don't make sence :
1. In ROTJ, OB1 explain to Luke that both he and Leia where hidden so the Emperor won't know Anaking has kids. Did Anakin Knew? Well, it would seem so, right? after all, in EP4 OB1 gives Luke a lightsaber while telling him "your father wanted you to have this when you're old enough...", but only in the dual in ROTJ Anakin reads Luke's thoughts and realizes that he also has a sister. How could he had known only about Luke?
2. In the dual between Vader & OB1 in EP4, just before OB1 says "you can't win, Darth...", It's seems as if OB1's lightsaber is running out of power (you see only a dotted-line of light), possibly a not-so-perfect effect, but this wasn't fixed in the SE.
3. It has been rumered that R2D2 and C3PO's memory was erased in the clone wars and that is why they don't seem to recognize OB1 in EP4, but how come OB1 doesn't seem to know recognize the droids also?

[mez7]

1 - Ben lied about tons of stuff, you know the whole certain point of view, maybe ob1 just took it to give to him, cause he knew this is what anikin would want, but we'll just have to wait and see what lucas writes.

2 - there were a few other things that wernt fixed in ANH vaders saber while walking towards the falcon after he kills OB1 is white, you just see the dueling rod, its just a mistake, not a power outage or anything thye just ran out of time to fix everything, and from what i hear are fixing the few things like that for the DVD release.

3 - seems most of the droids in the series are similar units, an so far in TPM Obiwan never saw C3PO, and he saw R2 for a few scenes in TPM, say you borrow a car for a day or two then you see the same one 30 some odd years later, are you going to know its the same car?? or would you just think its a car of the same model. this may also change in the next EP's but right now we dont know if Obiwan has been hanging around R2 and 3PO anymore than weve already seen

[bronto]

That car thing was a good example. That clears it up for me.

[Bromine]

1 - I'm waiting for the prequels to explain this. I don't consider it a "bug" just yet.

2 - I think if they fixed every little glitch with the sabres, the SE's would look so different compared to the originals and perhaps ruin it. Although Ben's sabre DOES look like it's fizzling out.

3 - Pretty much what Mez said. Also, Ben just said he never owned a droid; he never said he hadn't seen a similar droid before. Also, Ben was never really around R2 except when the were on the Queen's ship, and then R2 was probably in a closet most of the time. He probably wouldn't have paid him any attention even when he did see him.

[Jedi Master Kyle]

i'm going to assume that obi wan and r2 will inevitably spend more time together on screen. i also think that there is a bit of a loophole in the car analogy. imagine if you drive an '84 caravan, and 30 years from now you drive an '84 caravan. as was said, it will probably just register as being a vehicle that you drove before. but if you drive an '84 caravan named spanky, chances are you will remember that van. granted there are many astromech droids that look alike, but none sport the same name. but then again, luke never tells obi wan r2's number, does he? it's always something i've had a problem with and i hope lucas writes something cool to address it, and doesn't avoid it!

[mez7]

the stuff i wrote is from what we know NOW, not what may or may not happen in the next movies,
we dont know if obiwan will spend time with 3PO or R2 at all,
maybe theyll be shown with other characters and not OBIwan,
we dont know so from what we do know my analogy fits perfectly

[Bromine]

Also, like you said, Luke never told Obi R2's number. He just said, "This little droid. He claims to be the property of Obi-Wan Kenobi." Obi replies "I don't recall ever owning a droid." There was no reason to add, "But I once knew this droid called R2-D2, even though I didn't own him."
I kind of doubt a Jedi and his Padawan will have a droid hanging around with them. Just doesn't seem to fit. I think if R2 is going to be featured in Episode 2-3, he'll probably be with the Queen or some other Naboo character, considering he's property of the Queen.

We'll have to see what happens in the next two episodes, but so far I don't see a discrepancy.

[Jedi Master Kyle]

you're right, we'll have to wait and see, but unless r2 was programmed to say he belonged to obi wan kenobi, why else would he say it? if there's no truth to it whatsoever, then there's no point at all in saying it in the first place.

[mez7]

why wouldnt he be programed to say that??
leia sent him to find obiwan so maybe she got the program mixed up and instead of find obwan he got owned by obiwan,

[Go Mer Tonic]

1. In ROTJ, OB1 explain to Luke that both he and Leia where hidden so the Emperor won't know Anaking has kids. Did Anakin Knew? Well, it would seem so, right? after all, in EP4 OB1 gives Luke a lightsaber while telling him "your father wanted you to have this when you're old enough...", but only in the dual in ROTJ Anakin reads Luke's thoughts and realizes that he also has a sister. How could he had known only about Luke?Anakin will only know that Amidala is pregnant. The fact that she has twins will be kept not only form Anakin but from Obi-Wan as well. Yoda had to tell Obi-Wan in ESB about Leia, because until then, he thought Luke was their "only hope".
2. In the dual between Vader & OB1 in EP4, just before OB1 says "you can't win, Darth...", It's seems as if OB1's lightsaber is running out of power (you see only a dotted-line of light), possibly a not-so-perfect effect, but this wasn't fixed in the SE.Many things didn't make the deadline for the 20th anneversary release. They have said that the work didn't stop, which is why there will be an Archival edition to be released after the prequels.
3. It has been rumered that R2D2 and C3PO's memory was erased in the clone wars and that is why they don't seem to recognize OB1 in EP4, but how come OB1 doesn't seem to know recognize the droids also?Well, even if he did recognize them, he was keeping a lot of things from Luke. Partly because he was hiding from the Empire, and partly so Luke would not want to follow his father's path. Until he saw the message, he wasn't ready to let on about his past.

[Bromine]

About Obi-Wan owning R2: I figured Leia told R2 to go find Obi-Wan, and give him the message, and then stay with Obi-Wan and become his property. Obi-Wan had to take R2 to Alderaan, so it would be easier to do that if R2 became his property and he could order him around and stuff.
Leia probably said something like, "Deliver this message to Obi-Wan, and then follow him. You belong to him now."

[Doc Milo]

Go Mer Tonic: "Anakin will only know that Amidala is pregnant."
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Actually, according to the RotJ novelization, Anakin doesn't even know that Amidala is pregnant. According to what Obi-Wan tells Luke in that scene (in the novelization, he goes into greater detail) Obi-Wan says that "When Anakin left, he didn't know your mother was pregnant."

So Anakin doesn't find out that he has a kid until he discovers the name of the pilot that blew up the Death Star sometime between ANH and ESB.

Quote, directly from the novelization:

"Ben continued his narrative. 'When your father left, he didn't know your mother was pregnant. Your mother and I knew he would find out eventually, but we wanted to keep you both as safe as possible, for as long as possible. So I took you to live with my brother Owen, on Tatooine . . . and your mother took Leia to live as the daughter of Senator Organa, on Alderaan.'"

[Roksx]

Yes, OB1 had a lot of secrets. Did he scream when his brother died? No. But then again, he has other thing on his mind, saving the galaxy. but the name of R2D2 was written on him (EP1) and a 'car' that saves your life, would be something not easy to forget.

We have to see Obi-one leaving with his brother to tatooine, since he didn't say he knew the planet verry well.
(let's go to tatooine, my brother lives there).

I think the "your father wanted you to have this" is best explained with "what he would heve wanted".

But why did Owen say Ben was an mere old wizard? it was his brother for crying out loud.

Oh well, better wait for EP2 and EP3

[mez7]

owen said that to make luke stay away from ben cause he knew that if luke went to ben hed start on the path to become a jedi, and maybe end up like his father,

and i think the car analogy still works, R2 didnt personally save obi's life, yeah he saved the ship, but he didnt take a bullet for obiwan, so would he remember a droid which fixed the ship he was in over 30 years later??
i know i wouldnt, droids there arnt all that odd so theres probably been tons of droids which have fixed things obi was in, and maybe even saving his life in the process so why would he just remember that one droid?

[Tyrannosaur]

And why didn't Vader remember Threepio? I mean if I built a droid I would've

(BTW mez7 nice personal photo Army of Darkness is cool)

[mez7]

if you watch the origonal trilogy closely vader and 3po never really see each other, on the tantive they never see each other and in cloud city 3po is on chewies back partially dismantled, so he never really would have gotten a clear look at him,
and theres never a scene where 3po says his number in front of vader so he would probbly of just thought he was another protocal droid,

[Doc Milo]

Okay, I've given this Obi-Wan and the droids thing some thought, and I've come up with this.

How do we know that Obi-Wan didn't recognize the droids? Just because he says he doesn't recall every "owning" a droid? Remember, Ben parses words very carefully around Luke throughout ANH. Everything was from a "certain point of view." Why would Ben tell Luke that he recognizes Artoo or Threepio? For the heck of it? No.

If he recognizes the droid, then he realizes that a time has come where Luke will have to follow his destiny, and everything he reveals to Luke is to have him follow a certain path. Ben tells him just enough to nudge him in a certain direction, but not enough to have Luke ask questions to which Luke is not ready to hear the answers. So I ask, isn't it possible that does recognize the droids, but it's just not important enough to let us know that he knows them? Ben knows a lot more about Luke than he lets on, so maybe he doesn't want to get into a long detailed story about how he recognizes the droids because that would have Luke asking things about that time in Ben's life that would be detrimental to Luke's ultimate maturation as a Jedi.

And about the droids not recognizing Ben. One, again, we don't know that they don't (at least Artoo.) And Two, I believe they will have their memories erased in an effort to conceal the fact of the twins birth, so if the droids ever fell into enemy hands, they would not know anything about the existence of the twins.

Now, why didn't Vader recognize Threepio? My answer: Even if he did, why would he care? Once he turns to the dark side, he leaves Anakin Skywalker behind -- that entire life means nothing to him anymore. Why would he care about a droid he created. What would one expect Vader to say even if he does know and does care: "Hey! That's threepio. I created him. Give him back he's mine!"

We have to realize that there are things that people know and recognize in these movies that we will not know that they know or recognize because it's just not relevant.

Ben could have recognized the droids -- but since it's irrelevenat whether or not he did, why would we know?

Vader could have recognized Threepio -- but why would we know? And would Vader really care?

[Jedi Master Kyle]

those were some fine points doc. another possibility is that vader doesn't recognize 3po because we don't even know what 3p0's coverings will look like yet. perhaps they will change over the course of episode 2 and 3 and by the time of ESB, 3p0 will look entirely different.

[Go Mer Tonic]

http://dave.itsgames.com/gt.jpg Thanks for the info about the ROTJ novelizations bit regarding who knew about Amidala's birth.

I still maintain that Obi-Wan was only shown Luke, as his descrption about hiding them both could be a hidsight realization on his part.

What do you think about that?

Also, When Anakin left Tattoine in TPM, he left 3-PO behind. Maybe he just doesn't care enough about him to be alert to his presense later.

I think we will see 3-PO with Anakin in the next film, getting some of his coverings, so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

One thing I do know, is that the droids memory issue is a low priority to Lucas. He said he would adress it, but that it wasn't as essential to the story as other revelations about apparent plot holes would be. For what that's worth.

[Doc Milo]

Go Mer Tonic: I still maintain that Obi-Wan was only shown Luke, as his descrption about hiding them both could be a hidsight realization on his part.

What do you think about that?

********************************

Yeah, that could be. I was giving out the information from the novelization to prove that Anakin did not know Amidala was pregnant, and that he did not know that he had kids until he discovered the pilot's name that blew up the Death Star.

When Ben knew about Leia, I couldn't say. In ESB he doesn't seem to know that a sister existed (or thinks she isn't a viable candidate for training.)

[Jedi Master Kyle]

that's my theory! i wonder how vader found out about luke's name? a spy?

[Jedi Master Carr]

Perhaps he did recognize him, in ESB, when Boba Fett goes to shoot Chewie, he brushes him back, so maybe he recognized him at that second and did not want to see him destroyed. It would be interesting thought because it would show that there was still good in this meancing machine of evil.

[Doc Milo]

I believe that Vader stopped Fett from shooting only because he wanted Chewie, Leia, and Han alive so that Luke would take the bait. If they die, he can't be certain Luke will come after them. And with Chewie lashing out as he did, and with Leia and Han right there close, I don't think he wanted to risk that Fett would miss his target.

I don't see how Vader would know that this shambles of a protocol droid on Chewies back would be the same droid he built 30 some odd years earlier...


About how Vader found out about Luke's name? I'd assume that once the Death Star is blown up, the Rebels would have to evacuate Yavin IV quickly, or else face a fleet of Star Destroyers. To do this, they probably leave the heavy equipment behind -- erasing their computers etc... but maybe there are records left of the communications between the ground and the star fighters that they were able to piece together Luke's name, or a spy, or any number of ways....

[yuvalb]

nice ideas !

[Jedi Master Kyle]

i would say a spy, or the internet. i bet vader liked to surf the net alot when he was in his little meditation chamber! he understands that nobody but nobody can uphold an evil empire without being online!

[Bromine]

Wonder what his email address would be? SithLord@Empire.com?:)

[Brad Kan Obi So Cool]

LoL

[yuvalb]

well, i think we need to see a EP4-SE2

[Bromine]

Keep in mind, though, that the SE's NEVER changed the plot or story. In fact, they didn't even clarify the plot, either. The purpose of the SE's was to make the FX better and to add in original footage that was later editied out.

[yuvalb]

fine by me!

[yuvalb]

what about the scene where you see the shadow of Luke's speeder going the wrong way (while looking for R2) - another bug !