Episode I going to Cuba

[DarthAce]

The following came from Reuters;

"Star Wars'' heading for Cuba, thanks to Lucas
13:56 06-30-00

HAVANA, June 30 (Reuters) - Since the failed 1961 Bay of Pigs invasion, Cubans might be forgiven for thinking the only wars Americans would direct at President Fidel Castro's communist-run island are the military kind.

But Cuban state media was trumpeting on Friday a more welcome invasion -- this time via the cinema screens -- with the imminent arrival of ""Star Wars: Episode 1 - The Phantom Menace,'' thanks to its U.S. director George Lucas.

The long-standing U.S. embargo prevents trade with Cuba, so Lucas donated the Hollywood blockbuster without fees to the cash-strapped Caribbean island, said state news agency Prensa Latina, quoting Cuban cinema institute ICAIC's vice-president Benigno Iglesias.

The 1999 ""Star Wars'' film will be shown across the island, where Cuba's cinema-loving nation have traditionally enjoyed more Latin American, East European and old American movies, than recent Hollywood productions.

Since its release last year, ""Phantom Menace'' has become the second-highest grossing motion picture of all time.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is what makes Lucas NOT hollywood-he cares!:)

[Bromine]

That was really cool of him. 'Nuff said.:)

[ReaperFett]

What annoys me is how GL is like Bill Gates. They give loads of money to charity, and do things like this, which he didnt need to do, but they will still be spoken of like money grabbers.

[Bromine]

That's very true. (Although, from what I've heard Gates was criticised for years about not donating money to charity. He's changed that in recent years, though.)

I think people are just jealous of other people's success. They look at anyone who's rich and assume they got that way by being greedy and generally evil. Ironically, the same people that think this way are probably greedy themselves and if they ever did get rich they'd act the same way that they accuse rich people of acting.

[DarthAce]

George cares!:)
Vote GeorgeLucas for president<!:)

[mez7]

i had an arguement with my buddies girlfriend about gates and other very rich folks the other week,
why is it thought that if someone has lots of money they HAVE to give lots to charity??
it is moeny they worked hard to get, (at least gates and lucas) so why do they have a responsibility to save the world.

i think that they do lots of charity work but people just read or watch the news about them being in court or something bad and dont even try to find any good news about them.

[Doc Milo]

Yeah. I always thought if you HAVE to do something like that (whether forced to by a gov't agency through taxes and redistribution programs or pressured by your public image) then it really isn't "charity." It's more like "Public Relations."

True charity is "silent." The public may criticize someone for not making charitable donations but do they really know whether or not that person did? Maybe that person is truly charitable and makes such donations anonymously, wanting the donation to work for the charity, instead of for him/herself...

[Bromine]

I remember some really rich guy (his name escapes me) donated an obscene amount of money to various UN charities, and then criticised other millionaires and billionaires BY NAME for not donating. Just because he made his donation public, how does he know that all the people he named haven't contributed money? And what business is it of his how they spend their money?
What really bugs me is that, from a global standpoint, all of us posting here are very rich (I could be wrong, but it's a pretty safe assumption since we're on computers). How rich do you have to be before you're responsible for fixing the world's problems? Instead of criticising someone else for not donating enough money, donate more yourself!

The same argument about being too rich exists with Star Wars fans. There's the old opinion that George Lucas has made so much money off of people that he "owes" them. Baloney. You don't pay $8 for a movie ticket as a favour to GL. You pay $8 so you can go see a movie and enjoy yourself. No one has "given" their money to GL; they exchanged their money for entertainment, pure and simple. Yes, I'm getting a little OT.

[ReaperFett]

Bill gates last year gave £17 billion to charity, leaving him a total of £81 billion. That means he gave about 20% of his money away. Who else does that?

[DarthAce]

GeorgeLucas is a humanitarian!:)

[Jedi Master Kyle]

he's swell :)

[JediWilliam]

-Bill gates last year gave £17 billion to charity, leaving him a total of £81 billion. That means he gave about 20% of his money away. Who else does that?-

Who else has 17 billion to give. Whether he gave 20% or 90% he still coming off pretty well.

[Bromine]

Yeah, that's true. When you've got that much money, you're not going to miss a few billion. I think after a couple billion, you're just plain stinkin' rich and any more doesn't really matter.:)

[Jedi Master Kyle]

i read somewhere that it wasn't worth bill gates' time to bend over and pick up a $100 bill if he saw it laying on the ground. that's ridiculous!

[Bromine]

If he lost 99.99% of his money, he'd STILL be a multimillionaire!

[Jedi Master Kyle]

that is out of control!

[Jedieb]

I take it by everybody's comments that I'm the only Cuban who has read this thread. Now as a Cuban-American born and bred in the US, I'm not nearly as fanatical in my Anti-Castro stances as my parents, but I can tell you this; this will not make Lucas popular with Cubans in Miami. In fact, they'll chastise him for it. They won't see this as a humanitarian gesture that will help Cubans. They'll see it as support for Castro and a public relations coo for his government. If I read that bit of news to my father he'd probably call GL a communist and refuse to see EP2 & 3. I'm not joking, I'm totally serious.

I'm not agreeing with my father or other Cuban exiles. I just thought you guys might be interested in "a certain point of view".

Personally, I wish GL had not done this. In the grand scheme of things it's a trivial matter, but it does actually help that cigar smoking scumbag in a small way. Hopefully, nature will take it's course and Fidel will find himself 6-feet under soon and Cuba will go the way of the USSR. I just hope my mother and father are alive to see it.

[Jedi Master Kyle]

just curious, but why would people see it as support for castro? how does it help the cigar smoking scumbag? i totally believe you, i'm just curious as to the sociological reasons why it would help fidel...

[DarthAce]

First sorry if i make some people in here hate me bec what i am going to to say now,Jedieb will not want to talk to me again...first of all i am a marxist thats almost a red for you Jedieb,you have said your opinion and i agree with you on some of the things you said.Castro made some errors but he also made some goods(here comes the hating part).Do you say that its better the people of cuba not to watch the magic of StarWars?Do you say that the things that the racist,fasist right wing gov.of the u.s did to the cuban people helped them,f*ck me sorry i don't buy it.Did you know that one of the real reasons that they killed kenedy was bec he wanted to be friends with the cuban!I don't know maybe you know things better than me bec your cuban and you inside the things(even if you say you were born and raised in the u.s).I do not hate amercan people i love them but i hate there gov. becouse they are fasist and the brainwash their peoples head...sorry once again if i said things that you din't like but i just had to tell it!
Bec you hate castro isn't a reason for you to wish that TPM never went to cuba.

[Bromine]

The whole U.S. embargo thing always bothered me. It only ends up hurting the citizens of Cuba more than the government, IMO. I also don't like it because it ties in with to the whole Cuban Missile Crisis that the U.S. created, which really gets on my nerves. But that's another story, I guess. I'm sure everyone's already heard the truth about Cuban Missile Crisis so I won't repeat it.
The embargo just isn't working. Castro is still in power, and Cuba isn't going to allow itself to be conquered by the U.S. Some people believe that the embargo is a moral stand the U.S. is taking, but the fact is the U.S. has the embargo because it can AFFORD to. It couldn't afford to place an embargo against the USSR or China, but Cuba was no problem. If Cuba had important resources, dollars to donuts the U.S. would drop the embargo.
What also bugs me is that a lot of people think Cuba is an evil, terrible place. Now, I admit I have not been there personally and my only knowledge comes from books. Although I personally would definitely not like to live there, many people do lead happy lives there. It is a poor country, and it is opressive in many respects, but what annoys me is that some people (especially many Americans) that I've talked to immediately hear the word "Communist" and think the UN should march in and blow up the entire country. They don't bother to look any further.
To cut the rant short, GL did a nice thing for the Cuban people, but I agree many people will not see it as such.
I'd like to add that I apologise if my statements are at all incorrect. I am certainly not an authority on geo-political affairs, and I hope I don't come off as a know-it-all. I'm just a guy who reads a lot, so weigh the value of my posts accordingly.:)

[DarthAce]

I agree with Bromine almost 99%.I am a communist with opinions of my oun(like i also believe in god)and i hate it when people hate me bec i am communist(yes there were some bad communist leaders as there were a lot more bad fasist,right wing leaders like hitler and the american gov).
You see thats what they(u.s gov) want you to do Jedieb to believe that communists are BAD mother f*ckers like in all those 70's and 80's cold war movies and it seems that got you Jedieb!:(
================================================== ==========
Heres something from AICN that Lob0(a guy who rides for AICN)wrote:
STAR WARS IN CUBA
This is something that in particular I think is really cool... not because of STAR WARS... but for the fact that a movie from U.S. made it in CUBA. Just after I saw a short film called "LA ESQUINA CALIENTE" (HOT CORNER) which by the way I really liked, I find out that there is an invasion. EPISODE I strikes CUBA , because of the embargo that it seems is somehow coming to an end (partially) thanks to the adventure of pipo Elian Gonzalez and what it came with it, USA isn't doing any trade with the neighbor island, but LUCAS didn't sold/rent the movie, he gave it up as a donation. To cool to believe it, but I personally believe that there is a lot of people like LUCAS who uses a force to go through walls that some people build . The movie will be showing all over the island and as far as I know is the newest film to be in CUBA in a long ...long..time. I am not a communist , I just believe that there should not be any walls......and if there is .... look inside yours first... (( think about Fidel Castro .... now think about the master of Obi... ))

[JediWilliam]

When did this turn into a poltical webring?

[Bromine]

Good point; we're definitely getting off-topic here.

[Jedi Master Kyle]

i went to cuba last year, and i can tell you that the people who worked at the resort i stayed at hated castro. they were literally afraid to talk about it. i ate dinner with one of the animators dudes there and i asked about fidel, not knowing that it would strike such a chord of fear. he almost whispered to me that he was glad that he's getting old, because he hates him and hope he dies soon. but that was the end of the conversation.

[DarthAce]

sorry for making this a political thing,sorry again.Lets talk movies!:)

[Jedi Master Kyle]

so how 'bout them star wars movies, eh?

[Jedieb]

This has been a very interesting thread and I've enjoyed it a great deal. I don't think there's anything wrong with an off topic discussion every once in awhile. And I don't think it's gotten too OT because we're still talking about TPM's impact on Cuba. I'm going to try to respond to some of the comments made in regards to my post.

JMK's 1st post
Why does it help Castro? It helps him in that it's something he can trumpet around the world. Fidel can say, "Look, even one of your most respected film makers disagrees with your embargo!" And TPM is a commodity that Fidel can bring to his people without having to pay for it. It's a freebie that his style of government would have trouble affording. And finally, Fidel will just get a certain sense of satisfaction from ticking off the exiles in Miami.

DarthAce's 1st post
I try to be very objective when it comes to politics. And there's nothing that I value more than freedom of speech. You're entitled to your political views and I certainly don't hate you for it. I may disagree with you, but I don't hate or dislike you for it.

But let me ask you this; Do you live in a Marxist society? On paper, Marxism is very attractive. But in practice it has proven to be brutally oppresive. Stalin and Castro don't practice the same kind of Marxism that karl Marx espoused. I don't think Marx ever said that you needed to kill 20 million of your own people to keep the revolution going, and that's exactly what Stalin did. And Fidel has his own body count to live with.

Bromine's 1st post
The U.S. Embargo: I agree with many of your observations. Yes, the U.S. embargo against Cuba is hypocritical. Especially in regards to China. China's government has certainly commited more human rights violations than Cuba's. So why do we trade with China? Here are a few:
1 BILLION potential customers.
China is a nuclear power that can't be ignored
There isn't a strong organized political group in opposition to it run by Chinese exiles.

The US embargo isn't as much a moral stand as it is a response to the political efforts of the exiles in Miami. They've been very effective in getting Congress and Presidents to listen to them. Reagan, Bush, and Jesse Helms are examples of what I'm talking about. They haven't always won, but they have been able to win victories in areas of immigration (favored status for Cuban immigrants once they reach US shores) and the current embargo.

Personally, I'd like to see the embargo weakened a bit. Especially in reagrds to medical supplies. I really believe that much of Fidel's power lies within himself and not the communist system. Raul, Fidel's brother, we'll not be nearly as effective as Fidel. He doesn't have the cult of personality that his brother does. When Fidel passes, the system of government he controls will in all likelyhood fall apart without him.

Darth Ace's 2nd post
"You see thats what they(u.s gov) want you to do Jedieb to believe that communists are BAD mother f*ckers like in all those 70's and 80's cold war movies and it seems that got
you Jedieb!"

I think I do a decent job of filtering out propaganda when I come across it. My views on Cuba were shaped by my family and environment, not US propaganda. These are issues that were discussed at my dinner table, at family gatherings, and even with friends at school. When your father and uncles tell you stories of losing their family farm to the government, jailed and "missing" friends, you learn a lot more than you would from a 5 second soundbite on NBC or Sylvester Stallone flicks.
And despite being raised in that environmet, I still managed to develop my own political views. Elian Gonzalez is a perfect example. I thought he should have gone back to his father the day the man asked for him. I knew it was a battle that the exiles would lose and I knew what it could cost them. It was political suicide but they did it anyway. I never would have fought that fight.

JMK's 2nd post
You've been to Cuba!!! I've never been and all I've ever heard are stories from relatives and friends. If you have any pics of your trip and can scan them e-mail me, I'd love to see them. But you mentioned how people are afraid to talk about Fidel with foreigners. That's 100% acurate. I can get up on national TV and ridicule President Clinton on everything from his labido to his foreign policy. That doesn't happen in the Marxist wonderland known as Cuba. You try that in Cuba and you'll find yourself in a prison cell. And you'll have been ratted out by anyone from your next door neighbor to the waiter that overheard your anti-government conversation during lunch.

In conclusion, this has been a great thread and I've enjoyed exchanging ideas. Sorry for the lenght of this post but there was a lot of good stuff to cover.
Jedieb

[Jedi Master Kyle]

my girlfriend (who i'm no longer with) has the pictures of our trip. the resort was gorgeous. it was called breezes jibacoa. here's a few of the best photos i could find on the net. it really doesn't reflect cuba as a whole, but it is nice. the closest big city was varadero, about 80km away.
http://www.signature.ca/desk/station/cuba/breezesjibocoa/breezes.jpg</img src>
http://www.terramar-reisen.de/sommer/kuba/images/b_82238-2.jpg</img>

http://www.terramar-reisen.de/sommer/kuba/images/b_82238-3.jpg</img>

not too shabby! the pool was hotter than a bathtub most of the time! and 24 hour a day open bars! and the girls...i want to go back!!!

[Jedieb]

It looks beautiful! Thanks for the pics. :)

[Jedi Master Kyle]

no prob!

[Bromine]

Just wanted to bring out a couple of things Jedieb mentioned:

"Stalin and Castro don't practice the same kind of Marxism that Karl Marx espoused."
This is quite true, and I find most people forget this. I'll refrain from needless elaboration. There's quite a few countries I would not like to live in that are capitalist; that alone doesn't make the government great.

Also, I was thinking that if the embargo was relaxed, it would show to the world just how bad Castro's rule is. I've seen images of people in need of medical care, or all the old decrepit vehicles, collapsing buildings, etc., but I often wonder what is caused by Castro's rule and what is caused by the embargo.

And awesome pics! It's truly a beautiful country! When I think of Cuba, that's what I want to remember.:)

[Jedi Master Kyle]

the funny thing is that the pics don't do proper justice to how nice (and hot) it is! :)

[DarthAce]

"...but I often wonder what is caused by Castro's rule and what is caused by the embargo."
Believe me and it is my opinion that the embargo caused a lot more problems to the people of cuba than Castro!:(

[Jedieb]

DarthACE
Believe me and it is my opinion that the embargo caused a lot more problems to the people of cuba than Castro!

Thousands of Cuban exiles who had their homes and property stolen from them by Castro would disagree with your opinion. The relatives of Cubans jailed by Castro would disagree as well. Men who supported him at the beginning of his revolution only to be betrayed, jailed and even murdered would certainly disagree with your opinion as well. And millions of Cubans who were not allowed to practice their religion for decades would disagree with your opinion also. You're entitled to your opinion, but it's not shared by millions of Cubans in both the US and Cuba.

[DarthAce]

I see your point i didn't say the castro was a good leader i just said that the u.s helped nobody with the f*cking embargo!:(

[Jedieb]

I have my issues with the embargo as well. In many respects, the US is being very hypocritical in its dealings with Cuba, (I think we've brought up comparisons to China already). The embargo is simply not working, but to lift it would in a sense mean capitulating to Castro and a complete defeat to the exiles in Miami. And neither the Republican or Democratic party wants that on their resume. The only way that embargo will ever be completely lifted is with Fidel's death and the collapse of his government. Is this fair? No, but unfortunately, it's the reality of the situation.

[DarthAce]

The thing is that castro in the last two years is getting less hard momment after momment what the people of cuba must do is ask him to give the leadership-i know your going to say that if they do thet he will kill everyone.

[Jedi Master Kyle]

issue #50 of US Weekly is reporting that Lucas did NOT donate TPM to Cuba. What a long thread for something that never happened! :)

[DarthAce]

f*ck

[Jedieb]

D'OH!!!!!!!!!

[bronto]

Entertainment Weekly #550 also confirms this.

"There is no truth to the story," says a source at Lucasfilm.

[DarthAce]

Anyway it was a good talk!:)