How are they going to kill off the Jedi? can they?

[foxdvd]

Here is my question. Jedi and Sith are all around strong dudes. In fact, a young, fully trained Jedi or Sith should be able to take on just about anything and come out ahead. In episodes 4-6 we never got to see a full Jedi or Sith, because Luke was not fully trained, Obi was old, and Darth was almost all machine. In episode 1 we got to see Sith and Jedi that are full strength, and they ruled. So who could take on a Jedi, other then a sith?

I ask this because in episode 2 and 3 it seems that a lot of Jedi are killed. Not sure who does this, but there is talk of large light saber fights, and I wonder who they are with? If it is assassins, or the Fett’s, how would they stand up to a jedi in open battle? A surprise attack is one thing, or a bomb, but how would a non-sith fight a Jedi?

For those that have read many of the books, how do they handle this? I know there can only be 2 sith, so that can not be who is killing the Jedi, but if Jedi are as strong as they are shown in Ep 1, then how are they going to explain it?


I just hope they do not do what the Superman movies did. You get this set up of how strong his is, he lifts a fault line (what ..billions of tons?) yet down the road in other movies, stupid stuff hurts him, and they weaken him. A bus is thrown into him with enough force that he can not stop it, and the bus does not even fold or bend. Or his head is slammed into moon rock, and it does not even crack.. You know what I am talking about. So after all this set up, I hope they do not make the Jedi out to be dumb, and weak..

[Bromine]

Yeah, ol' Supe goes from Greek god to glorified pro wrestler pretty fast.;)

I don't think we're going to see massive ground battles in which Jedi are slaughtered. Some will probably die this way, but like you said, it's not easy to kill Jedi in a fight. Add to this the fact that flat out battles is a very bad way to wipe out a group that's spread across the galaxy. Once the Jedi started being attacked, you'd think the thousands of Jedi would get all sorts of people and planets rallying behind them and defeat whatever army is sent to destroy them. I think what we will see is more subtle manipulation on Palpy's part: vilify Jedi to the public, then start offering a bounty to get rid of these "evil threats" or whatever. While this is going on, Palpy will pull stunts like bombing the Jedi temple and the like.
Bottom line is that I definitely think there will be more subtlety involved than just a bunch of soldiers attacking Jedi.

[Jedi Master Kyle]

I agree, the Jedi will be the victims of a Palpy set-up, and will be mass murdered. It's ironic that they should die this way. A group of people who live their lives in servitude to a higher power, and to the cause of good, and they're all smoked in the most disgraceful, un-noble way.

[foxdvd]

so Sam Jackson's fight is with Anakin maybe?

[Doc Milo]

I was wondering. What if the reason for the introduction of midi-chlorians is that when Palpy starts creating a clone army, that clone army is ABSENT midi-chlorians, yet still alive, and thus not part of the Force. Wouldn't this, perhaps, put the Jedi at a disadvantage -- throw in Mandalorian armor that perhaps can repel a lightsaber blow and perhaps we can see how a clone army can become a big threat to the Jedi... (this, of course, is assuming that stormtroopers, as we know them, are not actually clones...)

[Bromine]

I would think that the absence of midi-chlorians would prevent their minds from being manipulated, but they could still be affected by the Force. Remember that inanimate objects like rocks have no midi-chlorians, but Jedi can still levitate them and stuff.

[Jedi Master Kyle]

The big thing would be that they wouldn't be able to sense them through the force.

[Bromine]

Well, they can sense inanimate things like blaster bolts and stuff coming at them...and I think they must be able to sense inanimate objects because how else could they move them?

Don't get me wrong, I think the idea of Force "ghosts" that existed outside the Force is a neat idea, but simply removing midi's wouldn't do it, IMO.

[Jedi Master Kyle]

Of course, Palpy could make an army so large, that eventually even the jedi wouldn't be able to win a battle of sheer numbers. For example, you could put Pavel Bure on the hockey rink against a few novice children, and Pavel would never let them touch the puck. But just keep adding kids, and eventually, as good as he is, there will be simply too many of them to handle.

[Jedieb]

Maybe the Clone Wars will be responsible for thousands of Jedi deaths? I don't care how powerful the Jedi are, they're still only about 10,000 of them. If Palpy can produce enough clones then even the Jedi could be decimated. And you know some of the Mandalorians are going to take them down. This is one of the most exciting aspects of EP2 & 3, The Fall Of The Jedi.
I CAN'T WAIT!!!!!!!!!!1

[Doc Milo]

I would think that the absence of midi-chlorians would prevent their minds from being manipulated, but they could still be affected by the Force. Remember that inanimate objects like rocks have no midi-chlorians, but Jedi can still levitate them and stuff.

When I wrote the original idea, I was sort of thinking of the Yuhzaan Vong. In the NJO series, they are existing outside the Force, and the Jedi can't sense them, nor can they even manipulate them, or touch them with the Force.

Is it possible that the inanimate ojects of the galaxy have some other connection to the Force that the Jedi can sense, an inanimate version, sort of, of the midi-cholorians, something that lets the Force know, "this is inanimate and part of the life of the galaxy," just as the midi-chlorians would let the Force know that "this is an animate being, part of the life of the galaxy..."

So, a living being without midi-chlorians, in this sense, would not be recognized by the Force, thus the Jedi could not use the Force against it, because, to the Force, it's not there at all...

I was also considering that what we always thought about the Mandalorians can be changed. Perhaps they are not a species or race of alien at all. Perhaps mandalorian just refers to the manufacturer of a certain type of armor. And if that armor was created in such a way that lightsabers can't penetrate it, then the clones that the Force can't sense can wear the armor that lightsabers can't pierce, and then you have an army deadly to the Jedi!

But not invincible. Palpy would want to make sure that this army is defeated by the Jedi after thinning the ranks to handleable numbers for he and his apprentice (Vader, at some point) to eliminate. He'd want the Clone Army destroyed because he wouldn't want them to become a threat to him as well...

I know, a little far-fetched. A little complicated, too, but I think it can be presented in a simple manner. Darth Sidious and his Apprentice discussing the project near the cloning facilities... A battle consisting of these clone warriors and the Jedi that shows the Jedi lost and confused because they are essentially Force Blind. The Jedi that take them on wiped out by this army of clones... the concept would then be well established...

[Jedi Master Kyle]

Do you mean that the clones (stormtroopers) are impervious to anything to do with the force? If so, then what about obi-wan's jedi mind trick?

[Doc Milo]

This scenario would mean that clones are a different lot than stormtroopers. If stormtroopers are clones, then the clone army that wears mandalorian armor would be a different kind of clone. A genetically manipulated clone. Or it would mean that stormtroopers are not clones at all.

IMO, just having stormtroopers as clones doesn't seem strong enough of a reason to name an entire series of wars the Clone Wars. I think the cloning, while it may include stormtroopers, has to have some bigger threat to it than merely being fought over the production of stormtroopers.

If my theory were to turn out correct, then the "mandalorians" (I'll call them that because they wear the mandalorian armor) would be a race of clones specially genetically manipulated so as to exist outside the Force; while stormtroopers could be a mass produced army of clones that exist within the Force (a replacement for the mandalorians once they are destroyed and the Jedi numbers thinned enough?)

[Jedi Master Kyle]

This is getting nuts! :)

[87FOXGT]

ohh i got a headache. MOMMY I DONT WANNA GO TO JEDI ACADEMY TODAY!! lol

[Bromine]

I see what you're saying, Doc. Interesting speculation.
What I'm curious about, though, is how an army of any kind will effectively wipe out, or even confront, the Jedi. As we know, Jedi are spread thinly throughout the galaxy. It's not like the Mandalorians can just land on a planet and instigate a ground battle with an army of indigenous Jedi. They'd have to fly around from planet to planet, picking them off a fe at a time. I just can't see any circumstance in which a few hundred (let alone a few thousand?) Jedi would be together fighting. I guess it could happen, but it doesn't seem to be the Jedi way of doing things. I can see several Jedi assisting ground forces, but that's it.

[Aprentize]

Bromine, this is interesting, because I think that this is one of the bigger parts of ep2. The senate, or the council, will call ALL the jedi to this sertain fight, because its too difficult for anyone but the jedi to face the threat.
Say sidious creates an army of 20 000 clones, and then palpatine will "find out" about it, and he has no choice but to call in the jedi. This would be an awsome battle sequense. 10 000 jedi angainst 20 000 clones. Would sertainly wipe out all but a few hundred jedi, wich sidious and apprentice could take care of...

[Jedi Master Kyle]

Yeah, I think the jedi will be decimated very quickly. Either like Bromine said, they're spread out thinly, and the clone army goes to them and there are simultaneous attacks on the jedi, or the jedi are all summoned to a particular spot and wiped out. I had a theory long ago about palpy testing his new fleet of star destroyers on a planet, and conveniently enough, the jedi would be on the planet as it is bombarded from space. Palpy could always say that he had to do it, especially if the jedi were there fighting clones of mandalorians or whatnot. His excuse would be that he had to use any means necessary to destroy the clones.

[Bromine]

I suppose all the Jedi could be summoned for the war or something; I just never thought of them operating that way.

[Doc Milo]

I always assumed, since the Clone Wars is plural, that it would be a series of separate wars that would do this, so it wouldn't be a massive army versus a massive army, but an invading army against a regular army and a bunch of Jedi who have been summoned to help out in each area where war has been breaking out.

And by "bunch of Jedi" I mean hundreds -- like a battalion of Jedi fighting with a planet's standing army...

[Jedi Master Kyle]

Good thinking on the plural part.

[WedgieAntilles]

Hi there, I am new to the board. I have read most of the books and I remember mention of a project called either Outbound or Outward Bound. I believe the former rather then the latter was the correct title. This was a decoy in which all of the jedi were sent to the farthest reaches of the galaxy to seek out Jedi candidates. As Ben said in ANH they were "rounded up and murdered." From my recollection of Outbound the Jedi were on a star ship that was destroyed.

Also a way in which to kill a Jedi quite effectively would be to have a Yssalamari (s?) lizard close buy. Around each of these small reptillian creatures from the planet Myrkyyr (s?) is a bubble in which the force is ineffective and a jedi is left powerless except for his own wits. If Palpatine/Sidious were to glure the jedi to a place where these creatures were prevalent then not only would they be without the force but the disorientation of the force missing from their consciousness would be enough to render them less then useless for a few minutes while they took in what was happening. By the time they figured out what was happening the blaster bolts and resin grenades would be flying in their direction.

Just a thought.

[Bromine]

As I recall, the Outbound Flight Project (from "Heir to the Empire"?) involved some Jedi masters.I don't think it would be plausible for 10,000 Jedi to all gather together to fly out on an exploration mission.

[Jedi Master Kyle]

Could imagine how utterly useless a jedi would be without the force?

[Doc Milo]

The EU was specifically forbidden to write about this time period, as I recall. A few Jedi Masters on a scouting mission and having them be destroyed is minimal and might not -- probably won't -- even be mentioned in the movies. That will not be the explanation for the downfall of the Jedi; that will be Lucas' tale to tell, how ever he wants to tell it, even if it means contradicting the EU.

Now, about the ysalamiri -- I, for one, don't want to see a rehash of EU stuff in the movies as an explanation for the downfall of the Jedi. I'd rather the EU stay separate. I'd like some minor stuff to be "canonized" through the movies, but there is also a part of me that would love to see some of that stuff contradicted.

Don't get me wrong, I like the EU -- most of it, anyway. But I want something new out of the movies, and if that means contradicting the EU, then so be it.

We already know Lucas is going to be contradicting the EU when it comes to the origins of Boba Fett. I don't think we can depend too much on what we read in those books right now. Once the movies are made, then we will be able to determine what is and isn't canon from those stories. But I don't want EU stuff to play a central role in important events of the movies, like how the Jedi fell...

[Jedi Master Kyle]

I totally agree, I don't want to see anything from the EU either. The Jedi are going to fall to the Sith because they're unprepared, not because of a little force-resistant lizard. :)

[buff jedi 2]

I really think that the jedi will be wiped out from the inside out (im sure everyone is aware of this)anakin ,mace .But I also fill that alot of the jedi will be ambushed,no matter how great a jedi is he could be tricked or surpised enough to be defeated and if you have a colony (of FETTS)cant spell the mands, they are a race brought up to do sneaky under handed things.Also DO look for jedi being killed in space like in a transport or something like that being ambushed(they have to travel in groups too.)I really dont think the clones being clones will have anyhing to do with the jedi's defeat,it will be surprise and sheer mass that gets them there cases of death.



buffjedi