VADER???

[buff jedi 2]

this may have been talked about before, If so sorry!!!




Now before
Anikin went to the dark side he was the only UBER JEDI(kyp duron was But thats EU)

ok so now he was the most powerfull jedi since he was niether good nor bad,so he could have kicked Yoda &Palps ars at the same time.

Ok so He turns to the darkside,becomes Vader and loses alot of his power.

Now even though he lost alot of his power shouldnt he still have more than enough to defeat Palpatine???
he is the chosen one.He said to luke together they could beat Palpatine So he had thoughts of taking Palpatine down why didnt he do it???And become the ruler of the galaxy.



Now I think that maybe Since he was Not Totally Evil he didnt realize his full range of power because of the conflict inside of himself Or because of the fact that he is mostly Machine than Man

any thoughts on that???





buffjedi

[Jedi Master Kyle]

I think Palpy knew how powerful Vader was, and knew he would have to make Anakin dependent on him. This is evident by Vader saying "I MUST obey my master". Of course, Vader wanted to eventually overthrow Palpy, but only in due time.

[buff jedi 2]

Very good point!!
I never thought of it that way .Now that you brought up that point
Do you think vader Thinks he owes Palpy, for saving his life???(the molten pit)and thats part of the reason vader feels depentant on paply?





buffjedi

[Bromine]

Palpy probably excels at manipulation, and he's somehow got Vader wrapped around his finger, perhaps through a combination of loyalty and guilt. I hope we see in the next movies how Anakin is manipulated by Palpy and eventually becomes his slave.

[Doc Milo]

There is evidence in the ESB novelization that Vader actually FEARS Palpatine. Fear is born of many things, among them are insecurity and uncertainty.

Vader may be more powerful, but if he THINKS that Palpatine is more powerful, and if he is insecure and uncertain of his own power -- feelings that can be both manipulated by Palpatine, and instilled in him by Palpatine -- then he would FEAR Palpatine, and not realize his own power.

That would be why he feels he must obey Palpatine -- he fears what will happen to him if he doesn't, he fears that Palpatine may be more poweful than him, and can destroy him. That is why he seeks to have both he and Luke team up against Palpatine, to enhance their chance of success. His own fears say that he is less powerful than Palpatine -- whether or not it is true, if Vader believes it is, then it is -- but he would also believe that there is no way that Palpatine can be more powerful than both he and Luke combined.

I'd say that fear -- both instilled in him by Palpatine, and manipulated by Palpatine to keep Vader in control -- is what keeps Vader from realizing his own power.

Fear, by the way, is of the dark side....

[Probe Droid]

In regards to Anakin/Vader there is a heavy theme of slavery involved. Not a great shock that when Anakin is introduced as a child he is a slave in the physical sense to Watto, and when after much that we do not know, he is reborn as Darth Vader, scourge of the universe, he, nonetheless, is still a mental/emotional slave to the Emperor and the Dark Side. Hence the "I must obey" mentality. A seriously heavy lesson running through this ongoing story is free choice. You can choose to be a good guy or a bad guy. It's a willful decision.

[Bromine]

That's an interesting comment, Probe. Anakin was a slave, then freed, then he chose to enslave himself once again.

[Jedi Master Kyle]

He was brought up as a slave, so it's probably feels natural to him, and Palpy knew this. It would have been a perfect way to get to Anakin.

[EP5GRAFLEX]

I think Darth Vader fears Papaltine because If Papaltine no longer needs or wants DV's services all he has to do is shut off DV's respirator like he took the cuffs off of Luke in ROTJ. I think this is why Darth Vader liked to crush throats of those who upset or frustrated him because DV was so resentful that he was stuck in that suit and could not exist without it. So yes Poor little Ani has some serious emotional issues....

Jedi-Rocker:)

[Bromine]

That's true; Vader's in an iron lung, so he's not as strong as he appears.

[Probe Droid]

Besides the slavery angle, there is also a strong theme of the relationship between parents and children, especially fathers/father figures and sons. Qui Gonn is certainbly a father figure to the young Kenobi, the old Kenobi is also a father figure to Luke, so at some point it's possible that Palpatine becomes that missing father figure to Anakin--a boy whom we're told was born without a father--and brings him over to the Dark Side. Since Anakin is seen as an almost angelic child, who helps others without reward and does good purely for the sake of doing good, then something truly horrible must befall him to turn him into such an evil adult, and I'm guessing that it's something to do with his mother. The mother perhaps dies some terrible death and Palpatine steps in and gives him a sense of comfort and home, etc., and makes him his apprentice. There also has to be some kind of break with Obi-Wan, who also could be a father figure to him. Later when Palpatine is killing Luke, it's his son's pleas for help that causes Vader to kill his surrogate father to save his flesh and blood son, so that theme comes into play there too. The Skywalkers: space's original dysfunctional family.

[EP5GRAFLEX]

Probe Droids post reminds me of Austin Powers Dr. Evil and his son scott!:) especially thier scenes on the Spy Who Shagged Me!

Jedi-Rocker:)

[Bromine]

Maybe Palpy will convince Anakin that he's his father. It would be a neat twist on the speculation that Palpy IS Anakin's father. The whole situation would parallel Vader's revelation to Luke, except in this case it WON'T be true, and instead of Luke not wanting to believe it, Anakin WILL want to believe it.