Anyone seen the "Phantom Edit"?

[Darth Bucky]

Don't know if this has been discussed here or not... I haven't seen the thread if it has. But, has anyone seen either version of the infamous Phantom Edit? I'd just be interested to know what you thought of it and where you got your copy.

[Jedi Master Kyle]

I sure have, for I am The Phantom Editor! mwahahaha!

....I didn't say that out loud just now, did I?

[Jidai Geki]

I haven't seen it, but would really like to. It can only be better than the real movie was.

Twenty minutes shorter, too! You hear that, George?! Less is more, you schmuck!

This could be the start of a great trend. The fans should all band together and remake these new and upcoming travesties the way they should be.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I will never watch some fanboy's redering of the film and from I here it sounds terrible and again Jidai I despise your attitude all you do is come here and bash Lucas I will you get on with you life why do you come here just to try to make us miserable? Well its not working all you are coming out to be is a moron.

[Doc Milo]

As a writer, I'm offended at the idea that some fan thinks they can improve upon the work of the original artist.

First off, TPM is copyrighted material -- so I hope Lucas finds this "Phantom Editor" and prosecutes him/her to the fullest extent of the law.

You don't have to like TPM or any of the SW movies, for that matter, but that does not give you or anyone the right to take someone elses work and change it. And this Phantom Editor, even if he does this and doesn't make any money off of it, is still in violation of copyright laws. One does not need to profit off of a plagiarized work in order to be subject to criminal charges. I hope Lucas finds this guy prosecutes him.

You think you can do better Jidai Geki, then why don't you go out and take an original idea of your own and create a social phenomenon.... This Phantom Editor thinks he can do better, why doesn't he with an original idea of his own. Oh, wait, probably because he/she doesn't have an original idea in his/her tiny little brain.

[Jedi Master Kyle]

We should thank this Phantom Editor. He's given Jidai a reason to come and post his inane, banal, repetitive, and utterly useless remarks. Again.

Aren't the rest of you glad he's posted? :rolleyes:


Doc - is he really subject to criminal law? I thought only if he used it for his own gain he could be in hot water? I defend anyone's right to think how something should go, but I think this guy's gone waaaaay too far. Even if I get a little annoyed with the "yippees" and the jar jar fart jokes, it's a part of the GL's galaxy and it's necessary to the saga. What's this talentless hack trying to prove? He can't seriously think that he's going to change GL's mind or his vision of the saga, does he?

[Jedieb]

I have to admit that I'm growing more and more tempted to track down one of these reedited versions of TPM. I've read so much about them that I just want to see them for myself. But I won't pay anything more than the cost of a blank tape. I don't believe these editors should profit from from their work but I really don't see anything wrong with sitting down on an editing machine and having some fun with a SW movie. As long as your intention is just to have fun and "share" your work then good for you.

If someone reedited a classic film I loved then I'd take one simple step to remedy the situation; I WOULDN'T WATCH IT!!!!! Years ago when Ted Turner wanted to colorized Casablanca I cried foul. But I realized all I had to do to solve my problem was never watch his colorized version. If I saw it on TV I could try to adjust the color or just pop in one of my Casablanca tapes and enjoy the movie commercial free. To me it's that simple. Don't like it? Then don't watch it.

I bet these reedited versions are going to be all over the place at the convention in Indy next spring. If I haven't gotten one by then I'll probably try to grab a copy then.

[Doc Milo]

Jedi Master Kyle, yes, the Phantom Editor can be subject to criminal prosecution for infringement of copyright regardless of whether or not he makes any profit.

All that has to occur, actually, is the distribution of a certain number of copies (including downloads off of the internet) that would, in essence, add up to over $1000 (I believe this is the number, but I could be mistaken on the actual amount) of merchandising, regardless of whether or not anyone pays anything for any copy of the plagiarized material. That means that over $1000 of merchandize (at what the merchandise would be worth by market value of the original movie -- with tapes, lets say that's 20 per tape) distributed (not necessarily sold -- they could be distributed for free)

This is, theoretically, because it could be argued that every one of the plagiarized tapes that sold is taking away from the profitability of the original work.

I do know that this Phantom Editor can be subject under this statute of copyright law (not certain on the actual dollar amount though, although I think $1000 is correct.)

---DocMilo addition (edit)----

Okay, I found an article on Zap2it.com about The Phantom Edit, and it quotes a lawyer on copyright law. I was wrong on one thing -- it's not distribution, it's $1000 worth of copies made... Here's the quote:

<font color="yellow" >"A work can be well known and part of popular culture but still copyrighted," said John Sylla, professor of business law at the University of Chicago Graduate School of Business. "U.S. copyright protection lasts for the life of the author plus 50 years. Only after that will 'Mona Lisa' arguments begin to apply."

The penalties for infringement can be severe. According to Sylla, "A copyright owner can sue for money damages, attorney fees and a court order to stop infringing and turn over the copies."

"It even becomes a federal crime," Sylla added, "if the infringement is willful or more than $1,000 worth of copies are made. The FBI can investigate, the government can prosecute, and the infringer can be punished with a year or more in prison plus hefty fines. This is still true if the 'theft' is cybercrime copying over the Internet"</font>[/font]

[Jedi Master Kyle]

Well it's 10:10pm, and the old saying comes through again; You do learn something new everyday. :)

[Jedieb]

I doubt Lucas would persue copy right infringement in this matter. Copyright violations occur all the time and they're much more severe than what you're seeing with the TPM reedits. Anyone ever seen a Calvin and Hobbes t-shirt or a Calvin image on a car window? Well I can guarantee you that what you're looking at is illegal and was never lawfully copyrighted. Bill Waterson NEVER sanctioned merchandising for Calvin & Hobbes. He even got into a major battle with Universal Press over the issue. Despite people pirating Calvin's image and making tons of money nothing has ever really been done. In fact, you can often go to a mall and see a Calvin shirt being sold right in broad daylight. Yet nothing has ever really been done to stop these kinds of things.

If Lucas were to persue this matter it would be perceived as Goliath picking on a couple of poor little Davids. Every indication tells us that Lucas doesn't mind the reedits. It seems he's curious to see what another editor has done with his work. There are far more serious infringements of SW material out there. I just don't see this as something Lucas would ever take legal action over. Especially if it continues to be a fan movement of copies being distributed between fans. Although I can easily see a scenario where somebody gets their hands on a copy and then starts to crank out as many copies as they can and selling them on ebay. There's an interesting ebay search to make...

[Jedi Master Carr]

Occassionaly big companys take them on. I remember reading about how the Boston Red Soxs took on this vendor who was selling shirts that had a picture of the Green Monster along with that name on the shirt. Actually this case dates back to the early 90's but the Red Sox finally won the case. I'm not sure if Lucas would do it or not I bet if they were profiting off it like these vendors in Boston he might but otherwise probably not.

[Doc Milo]

I doubt he'd go after them too -- it's most probably not worth the time or effort, especially since going after them would also have the effect of giving the plagiarized work more publicity.

It just offends me that these people like Jidai Geki and this Phantom Editor think they have a clearer vision of what Star Wars is supposed to be than the creator of Star Wars does. Did they ever stop to think that maybe they had the wrong idea about what Star Wars was all this time?

In the above article, the law professor made a reference to "comparisons to the Mona Lisa..." What he was referring to was a quote from a TPM fan who said something to the effect of, "If you didn't like the smile on the Mona Lisa, would you change it? NO!" He made references to other works of art as well that people wouldn't think to change just because they didn't like an aspect of it. He makes a good point. You don't have to like TPM. No one cares if you do or you don't. But don't go around plagiarizing someone's work and then distributing it as if you've made it better.

Making a tribute to Star Wars through things like fan fiction (while technically still a copyright violation) is one thing -- that's treating the original work with reverence, using characters without really plagiarizing the original work. But to re-edit someone's work like this Phantom Editor has done because s/he thinks s/he can make it better than it was . . . that's just insulting to the art and to the artist.

Like I said before. If this Phanton Editor (or this Jidai Geki) thinks he can do any better, then come up with an original idea and make it into a social phenomenon as Lucas has done. I'd like to see them try.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Actually there is a new article on theforce.net that says lucasfilm is telling them to stop distrubuting the tapes or else there lawyers will get involved. I guess thye are getting serious.

[Jedieb]

It certainly looks like Lucasfilm is trying to get a handle on the situation now. Although now that the genie is out of the bottle they'll be hard pressed to stop it completely. But they will certainly make it more difficult for people to get their hands on a copy.

[ReaperFett]

Im not watching what is basically some director wannabe who cant make his own film, so has to try to look clever. I can do that. But I wont. As I have some sense of decency

[Jidai Geki]

Okay. This coming from someone who likes TPM. :) I'll take that as a compliment.

If you want to turn this into a personal thing by calling me a moron, that's fine. I attacked a Star Wars movie for christ sake! Not you. It is pretty pathetic that people take such stupid things so personally.

As far as getting a life goes, only a person without one would get so upset because someone else doesn't like their favorite sci-fi movie.

And this is a FORUM. Do you know what a forum is? It is defined as a medium of open, or panel discussion. That means an exchange of ideas and points of view. From time to time, some of those points of view may differ from others. If things like this ruffle your feathers so terribly, well....I find that pretty funny, and it gives me great pleasure to be able to elicit such anger over such a stupid topic.

And I stop by here from time to time out of occasional boredom. I find it amusing to some degree. The number of posts recorded under my name should give some hint that I don't live on this site.

And YES!!! The movie is wretched, wretched, wretched! If this opinion causes you such personal anguish, well, I'm glad.

[Jidai Geki]

Why don't I go out and come up with something completely original like Lucas did? Rrrrrrriiiiggggghhhhht. George Lucas invented this story, these archetypes, these situations, and these ideas? If you really believe that, you need to do a bit more reading into the centuries of mythology and philosophical belief systems that Lucas BORROWED from to RE-TELL an age old tale in a new way. He invented the special effects. He did not invent this story.

If you want to fool yourselves into thinking that this is a completely original idea, born entirely of his brain.....then there's nothing else that can be said. Except, go watch the old Kurosawa films, read some ancient mythology and philosophy,and then talk about how original this idea is.

He re-told a story that had been told countless times before in a clever, technological way. But don't give him more credit than he's do. Even he would say that you were nuts if you that the idea was all his. He came up with strange character names, and some cool special effects. There, the originality ends. If that's too much to deal with....then in that case....George Lucas is the second coming. He has crafted a tale that has given the human race direction and understanding of all of creation. Without TPM, the world would exist in a state of chaos. He has aligned the planets, brought balance and harmony to all things, and should be venerated as the god that he clearly is.

Sheeesh. You people are nuts. You do realize that?

"He doesn't like our movie! Let's get him!"

Go ahead. Skewer me. I rather enjoy it.

To all the sane people out there,

have a VERY good evening!

[Doc Milo]

Who said "Completely" Original?

I know where his ideas and inspirations for Star Wars come from. You clearly don't understand what I meant by orignial.

Lucas took the ideas that have been told through the ages and modernized them. The ideas may not be original -- but the way in which he conveyed those ideas is. He didn't take someone elses work and re-edit it.

What kind of originality does it take to take a movie someone else made and cut out the scenes you don't like and market it as some kind of "Corrected" version of the movie. The Star Wars universe uses some pretty old ideas that are conveyed in a new way. That way of telling this ages old story is Lucas's vision of that story. And no one has the right to change that because they didn't like it.

And I don't care if your opinion is that the movie sucked, Geki. But when you start saying it is an example of bad film-making, you are no longer stating an opinion. You are presenting your opinion as fact. And when you do that, you better darn well be able to back it up with specifics. And so far you have come here, said, "TPM is wretched. It's the epitomy of bad film-making" and have backed it up with nothing.

It's your opinion that it's a wretched movie. Fine. I don't care if you don't like it. But state that it's your opinion and move on. Don't try to present your opinion as fact, and imply that anyone who doesn't see what you see as a fact is an idiot -- especially when you have never -- EVER -- supported your so-called facts with any kind of evidence.

Why is it bad? I'd really like to know.

[ReaperFett]

theres ripping off a film, and USING ITS FOOTAGE! The damn wannabe should make his own films, as opposed to trying to get popularity from fanboys(I bet well find out who did it soon)

[Jedi Master Carr]

I have no problem with your opinion, its the way you act to us, you make us feel like we're the idiots because we like the movie and we know nothing about movies. Here is a perfect example of what I mean
"And YES!!! The movie is wretched, wretched, wretched! If this opinion causes you such personal anguish, well, I'm glad." This is exactly what I mean you are troll you come here saying how bad the movie is to try and get us angry at you. I now realize I should never have called you a moron because that is exactly what you want to be called you want us to yell at you, it must excite you or something.

About your other post I agree with Doc and want to add no idea is completely original, even William Shakespear, Chaucer, all the way back to Homer bowered others peoples ideas, all writers to do it but I don't find it acceptable to edit somebody elses work. What if somebody hated Romeo and Jullet so much and edited and then wrote it than Romeo and Jullet lived happly ever after to me that is same thing this editor is doing he is changing Lucas's work.

[Jidai Geki]

I never posted that I hated TPM to get you, or anyone else, angry. Whenever I've posted that, it was because that is how I feel about it. And the very first time I said that I hated it, there were those who reacted with the standard, "you're an idiot because you just don't get what it's about", attitude. And ever since, yes, I have been somewhat caustic in my remarks regarding what I feel is a terrible movie. I became more bitter in tone in response to what I perceived to be a bitter response to my dissenting opinion. And, a vicious cycle is born.

You can call me whatever you want. I really don't take offense at it. Life is too short to be upset by such things. And I admit that it does amuse me how fired up people get by such ridiculous "issues", if we can even call such things, "issues".

I don't think you, or anyone else is an idiot for LIKING the movie. However, I do take issue with those who would call it one of the greatest, if not THE greatest film ever made. Come on. There are songs that I like that are TERRIBLE, and I admit it. The fact that I like it doesn't make it a good song. It still stinks, but I like it, and realize what makes it so bad. But hey, it is a guilty pleasure.

Same applies to movies. You can like a really bad movie. Fine. But be able to admit that it ain't the greatest thing to come down the celluloid pike, and don't take it so personally. After all, what are we talking about? A sci-fi movie! My girlfriend is sitting next to me right now laughing at me as I write this.

Don't let the fact that I hate this movie turn any of your hairs grey. I haven't let the fact that some people like it turn any of mine grey.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well your attitude makes it seem like you come here for that reason. That is my main problem with you coming here is how you act towards us especially your statement that we like a bad movie. That is just your opinion and there are many people who will disagree with you and don't say the critics all hated it. That is the greatest myth I have read, it got mixed reviews which is not bad especially since many of them hated the first three films and gave it bad reviews the first time around esp magazine like the New Yorker. But I can think of many critics who loved it. Roger Ebert comes to mind he gave it 3 1/2 stars and called it a great introduction to the prequals. Ebert is not alone I can think of USA Today, the NY Times, the LA Times I could go but we be here for a while so we can cut the crap that everybody thought it was bad. I'm okay with your opinion and can live with it but its just that you have been coming on here for almost two years saying it and gets tiring and you become obnoxious. I also agree with Doc that you should explain why you hate the film so much so we can make are arguments why we like it. This is it for know if you want to rant on like you have been we could get you banned from this board but if you want to argue like a rational person than fine make your points and we will make ours.

[Doc Milo]

I don't believe anyone has to give an explanation why they hate or dislike a movie. There are plenty of movies that most people like, that I dislike. "American Beauty" or "There's Something About Mary" come to mind. I don't like those movies. I don't think either one is an example of "bad film-making" however. I just don't like them as a matter of personal taste, and I'll admit that. My dislike of those movies is purely subjective.

But when someone makes a claim that something is an example of "bad film-making" they are no longer merely stating their opinion. They are making an objective claim.

You, Geki, in your post, seem to want us to accept that TPM is a "bad movie" despite the fact that we like it. You want us to say that we like a bad movie, just like you have admitted to liking bad songs.

I know where you are coming from when you say that; there are bad movies that I enjoyed and like, and are guilty pleasures. I don't think TPM is one of them. I don't accept your premise.

But you have repeatedly said TPM is a bad movie and seem to think everyone agrees; you state it as fact. Well, if you are going to present this to us as a fact, you then must give us supporting evidence. And you have yet to do so.

So, either admit that you are merely stating an opinion based on your dislike of the movie, or back up your accusation that TPM is an example of bad film-making with evidence to support the claim.

[Jedieb]

Well the Phantom Editor has made a statement regarding his now infamous edit. You can find it at Zapit.com

www.zap2it.com/movies/new...11,00.html (http://www.zap2it.com/movies/news/story/1,1259,---7311,00.html)

I liked his response and it was what I hoped this whole thing was in the first place. A SW fan with some editing skills trying out his work on material he loves and then sharing it with some friends.

[Jedi Master Kyle]

I read it earlier this morning and was impressed that the guy came through like that. I guess he's kind of cleared his name so to speak.