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View Full Version : So America, I hear you might be getting a new gaffer...



Dasquian Belargic
Nov 5th, 2012, 04:45:07 PM
...OR ARE YOU

:ohno

Sanis Prent
Nov 5th, 2012, 04:46:34 PM
What the fuck is a gaffer

Dasquian Belargic
Nov 5th, 2012, 04:52:06 PM
Him who tells you wot to do. Your guvnor.

Crusader
Nov 5th, 2012, 04:55:04 PM
gaffer=colloquial language for boss :cool

Park Kraken
Nov 5th, 2012, 07:49:05 PM
Unlike what the Hysterical Society makes it out to be, life will go on whether or not Barry or Mittens makes it into the Oval Office. :whaa

Darth Turbogeek
Nov 5th, 2012, 07:57:32 PM
Google 538 and Nate Silver will bedazzle you with MAGIC

(Soory guys, you still have the militant Kenyan Atheist Muslim Socialist Gay black dude to look forward to)

Charley
Nov 5th, 2012, 08:04:01 PM
I hope so. Maybe he won't be a total pussy and a complete corporate shill in his 2nd term. Either way I'll take milquetoast and incompetent over outright antagonism any day I guess.

Droo
Nov 5th, 2012, 08:07:21 PM
(Don't forget he's also an Arab!!)

Emelie Shadowstar
Nov 5th, 2012, 08:26:23 PM
I'm gonna write in "Andrew Ryan"


...no not really. I'm not that weird. :|


Or...am I? :mischief

Darth Turbogeek
Nov 5th, 2012, 09:06:46 PM
(Don't forget he's also an Arab!!)

Arab lesbian communist B-SHOC OBOMBER

Charley
Nov 5th, 2012, 09:14:27 PM
If he's an arab, there's been a disturbing lack of hummus in the white house :mad

Jedi Master Carr
Nov 5th, 2012, 09:45:54 PM
Unlike what the Hysterical Society makes it out to be, life will go on whether or not Barry or Mittens makes it into the Oval Office. :whaa



It matters to me because I work for the government (National Park Service) at the moment and I think Mitt will cut my livelihood.

Droo
Nov 5th, 2012, 09:49:00 PM
An interesting "What if..." article published in the New Statesman last week:

http://www.newstatesman.com//politics/politics/2012/11/what-if-mitt-romney-wins-6-november

Dasquian Belargic
Nov 6th, 2012, 01:54:08 AM
Ohio, don't fuck this up.

Crusader
Nov 6th, 2012, 03:27:31 AM
Duh who cares about the election anymore? Halo 4 is coming out today...

Is Microsoft secretly trying to install Mittens as president by stopping the youth from voting today?

Darth Turbogeek
Nov 6th, 2012, 03:57:13 AM
Halo 4? WTF, They are still putting out that garbage??? (And I do mean WTF serious? I thought that game died a few years ago)

Park Kraken
Nov 6th, 2012, 06:52:32 AM
I've done some scary reading on possible outcomes on the election, namely what happens if the electoral college ends in a tie; We could have a split administration, with Barry and Pauline cancelling each other out probably, or Mittens and Joe Blow, which quite frankly just scares me. :ohno

Crusader
Nov 6th, 2012, 08:14:19 AM
Actually this worked out fine at our goverment 3 years ago. They can do mandatory cuts and do unpleasant things that would normally jeopardize their reelection in the next term and then the next election comes up they blame it on the other party while in secrecy they all agreed that this was the best thing to do...

Negative example: Germany was ruled by a big coalition at the end of the twenties and early thirties concluding in the rise of the Hitler party due to the fact that everyone blamed both collaborating parties in the end.

Yog
Nov 6th, 2012, 12:17:42 PM
It is pretty much set at this point that Obama will win. He has the upper hand in too many battleground states. I don't expect much of him for the next 4 years, but he is clearly the lesser evil.

The election is really about who will write legislation which will be filibustered in the senate. A broken and corrupt system, where little to no progress can be expected. Only with extensive reform of the voting system can there be reason to celebrate.

Tevit Ramastan
Nov 6th, 2012, 01:30:50 PM
Well, I voted.

The Original BuffJedi
Nov 6th, 2012, 01:58:47 PM
I voted! but sadly, there are enough *ucking morons in the U.S.A to keep that *ucking Piece of *hit, in the white house :(

Lilaena De'Ville
Nov 6th, 2012, 03:16:47 PM
I don't really talk about politics, but I did vote. :) we filled out and dropped off our ballots last night.

Dasquian Belargic
Nov 6th, 2012, 05:52:16 PM
Watching the BBC pre-game coverage now... Jeremy Vine with his 3D election map. Always a treat!

I was tempted to stay up late, but from what I understand, the results won't start rolling out until 6am GMT tomorrow.

Captain Untouchable
Nov 6th, 2012, 06:04:33 PM
Easy solution: wake up early! ;)

Charley
Nov 6th, 2012, 07:10:30 PM
Voted for four more years of our Liberal Arab Muslim Commie overlord. To the collective hummus farms!

Rutabaga
Nov 6th, 2012, 08:35:34 PM
I also voted to keep Obama in the White House. I haven't been completely happy with him, but the alternative was just way too scary for me.

There's a good side and a bad side to voting in California. The good side is that, since we aren't a swing state, we don't get drowned in advertising. The bad side is that we always have a horrific number of propositions to vote on, and too often we're voting on things that shouldn't be at the whim of the popular vote. We had 11 to vote on this year, and I was ready to light my voter information booklet on fire by the end. :grumble

Charley
Nov 6th, 2012, 09:53:53 PM
I'm in Alabama. Same situation, but we have the distinction of having the longest written constitution in the world, and every prop is an amendment to it. We had 13 of those fuckers, most of which concerned matters pertaining to intra-county affairs I'm not even a party to!

Tevit Ramastan
Nov 6th, 2012, 10:27:24 PM
Great, four more years of this asshat.

Rutabaga
Nov 6th, 2012, 10:38:14 PM
And the race for 2016 starts...now. :x :ohno >_< :headache

Darth Turbogeek
Nov 6th, 2012, 10:51:39 PM
Great, four more years of this asshat.



Awwwwwwww.... pooor diddums. We survived 8 years of Bush, I'm sure you can survive four more of dat commie socialist gay kenyan.

Tevit Ramastan
Nov 6th, 2012, 11:00:02 PM
I'm sorry you can't possibly accept a viewpoint that isn't your own, Mark, and that you think I'm some idiot.

Yog
Nov 6th, 2012, 11:03:42 PM
Machine turns vote for Obama into one for Romney (http://tv.msnbc.com/2012/11/06/machine-turns-vote-for-obama-into-one-for-romney/)

Tevit Ramastan
Nov 6th, 2012, 11:06:41 PM
Machine turns vote for Obama into one for Romney (http://tv.msnbc.com/2012/11/06/machine-turns-vote-for-obama-into-one-for-romney/)

I love how the title of that article only goes one direction, when the article itself clearly states that it happens both ways.

Jedi Master Carr
Nov 6th, 2012, 11:32:04 PM
I'm sorry you can't possibly accept a viewpoint that isn't your own, Mark, and that you think I'm some idiot.


I would never call someone stupid, but you can survive 4 more years with Obama. I took 8 years of Bush and was never happy about it.

Tevit Ramastan
Nov 6th, 2012, 11:43:10 PM
I'm sorry you can't possibly accept a viewpoint that isn't your own, Mark, and that you think I'm some idiot.


I would never call someone stupid, but you can survive 4 more years with Obama. I took 8 years of Bush and was never happy about it.

Oh, I can survive a lot of things. I survived a car wreck that should have killed me, and double pneumonia followed immediately by heat stroke, but that doesn't make those good things.

My thing is, I don't just want to survive, I want to thrive. And under this economic shambles, that's becoming harder and harder to do by the day. Silly me for believing in personal responsibility instead of government mandates.

Jedi Master Carr
Nov 6th, 2012, 11:54:27 PM
Hey if Romney have gotten elected, I would have had trouble getting a job since I work for a government agency. Besides, our economy is getting better anyway. Really the President doesn't control what happens with the economy.

Tevit Ramastan
Nov 6th, 2012, 11:58:13 PM
Hey if Romney have gotten elected, I would have had trouble getting a job since I work for a government agency. Besides, our economy is getting better anyway. Really the President doesn't control what happens with the economy.

Well then, I guess no one can blame Bush for the economy, either.

Morgan Evanar
Nov 7th, 2012, 12:17:50 AM
Could you explain which Romney policy would have made the economy better?

Dasquian Belargic
Nov 7th, 2012, 12:54:50 AM
Good news to wake up to :) I'm pleased that even if people are hurting from the current state of the economy they recognise, first, that cutting public spending has not worked for Europe so is unlikely to work for the US, unless the goal is to create a double-dip recession there too - and second that there were other issues at stake here, like women's rights.

Darth Turbogeek
Nov 7th, 2012, 01:41:02 AM
I'm sorry you can't possibly accept a viewpoint that isn't your own, Mark, and that you think I'm some idiot.


And under this economic shambles

As I recall, 4 years ago there was a bunch of posters here cowering in fear as the US economy fell off a cliff.

Today, the USA is climbing out of a long dark hole from where it fell, but they are climbing back none the less.

The facts, as they say, speak for themselves.

Crusader
Nov 7th, 2012, 02:06:56 AM
I think this is a good result for both sides:

Obama gets presidency and the senat.

The republicans get the congress.

Now they can either block each other's politic for four more years or work together to restore America's power.
The joke is on you when China and Russia will keep on becoming more powerfull.

CMJ
Nov 7th, 2012, 02:14:18 AM
I'm just glad it's over. Also worth noting this is the first time I ever voted for the guy who actually won the presidential election (I was 0 for 4). Granted I went 3rd party a couple of times, so those are automatic losses, but still. :lol

The Original BuffJedi
Nov 7th, 2012, 05:42:27 AM
The U.S.A is SO *UCKED!, the only hope we have now is that this piece of $hilt dies soon(of natural causes of course). I am no longer a United States citizen.I'm lucky, I can afford to move from this *hit hole of a country(and I will) but I feel sad for the people that cant and will have to stay.How's that song go ..oh, Canada oh, Canada.....with all their faults,its better than serving the Muslim brother hood :/

Morgan Evanar
Nov 7th, 2012, 08:06:28 AM
You cannot be serious.

Yog
Nov 7th, 2012, 11:17:10 AM
Hey if Romney have gotten elected, I would have had trouble getting a job since I work for a government agency. Besides, our economy is getting better anyway. Really the President doesn't control what happens with the economy.

Well then, I guess no one can blame Bush for the economy, either.
Bush is largely responsible for starting 2 wars and the tax relief reconciliation act of 2001 and 2003. I'd estimate those combined account for at least 2/3 of the accumulated debt from 2000 to 2012, with catastrophic impact on the economy.

As far as subprime mortgage crisis goes, I think that was equally the fault of democrats and republicans. However, it is worth noting that even after all this, the GOP still favor deregulation of the financial sector.

Droo
Nov 7th, 2012, 11:21:38 AM
the only hope we have now is that this piece of $hilt dies soon(of natural causes of course).

I'm amazed you think your amendment makes that deplorable statement acceptable.

Halajiin Rabeak
Nov 7th, 2012, 11:35:53 AM
As far as subprime mortgage crisis goes, I think that was equally the fault of democrats and republicans. However, it is worth noting that even after all this, the GOP still favor deregulation of the financial sector.

As someone who works every day in the world of property finance, I can very much state that deregulation would, in fact, be the key to get banks back on track with lending again.

The subprime mortgage crisis came about because of regulation put in place by Clinton, stating that if banks wanted to still service government loans, they HAD to give loans to those with poor credit. The banks didn't like this, but as government loans are a massive section of the loan servicing industry, they had to go along with it.

This regulation allowed for the underhanded mortgage and underwriting practices which got us into this mess. Most of those "bad" loans were not made by the banks, but by small loan offices, and then sold en masse to the banks with an overstated value and credit rating. The loan offices took their cut and made out like bandits, leaving the banks with billions in toxic debt. Had the lending environment been more stringent in the first place, only those with credit worthy of getting suitable loans would have been given, and the housing market would not have crashed like it did.

A great deal of money was held in mortgage-backed bonds and investments, and for a long time was considered to be a safe and secure investment, but only because that was based on the old model when the banks determined who they would lend to instead of bending to government pressure and regulation. When that changed, investors did not change with it, and billions were lost because a one-secure investment suddenly became highly volatile.

Also, bear in mind that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are both run by the Democratic party, so if you really want to know what caused both those massive portfolios to crash so hard, just have a look at who should have been watching them in the first place.

So, yes, that is one area in which less regulation would have been a good thing, as it would allow a private enterprise to use their own risk assessment instead of being told "do this or else."

I'm certainly not saying that Bush was good for the economy - he wasn't - but I am saying that more regulation does not always lead to better business. Businesses often know how to run themselves better and more securely than the government does. Not always the case, but generally speaking private enterprise does fairly well.

Dasquian Belargic
Nov 7th, 2012, 12:23:12 PM
Just gonna lay down a ground rule: political debate is fine, but wishing harm or death on anyone involved? Not fine. Think whatever you want about the various candidates, but please stick to discussing actual policy and politics in this thread. If you aren't able to discuss the election without getting into name calling, please gracefully bow out of the discussion.

Dragon
Nov 7th, 2012, 12:25:02 PM
BuffJedi, I am a Romney voter telling you to shut up until you have something more to contribute than histrionics and death threats.

My feelings are much the same as Mitch's. I understand the majority of posters here are anti-Republican if not entirely pro-Democrat. My own position is not so much pro-Republican as generally conservative. I think government growth should be limited where possible. What I see from the Obama administration is a reckless, breathless rampage toward expanded regulation and control with zero accountability and transparency, despite the promises that this would be the most transparent administration in history. We haven't had a budget in three years. His crowning legislation was a monstrously huge health care bill nobody read before passing, and to which a growing list of major companies has sought and obtained exemptions. His administration's response to the Benghazi terror attack was nothing short of reprehensible, whether by incompetence or by design.

The Presidential election was not the only one I cared about. I was deeply hoping that Josh Mandel would take over Sherrod Brown's senate seat for Ohio. Brown's been the gold standard for pork barrel spending and cronyism for twenty years in Congress, while, during his term as Ohio treasurer, Mandel helped boost our credit rating to tops in the country with bipartisan efforts. I had hoped that some fresh ideals and willingness to work across the aisle might reinvigorate the Senate and turn it into something other than a massive logjam. But we've got the status quo in the White House and on Capitol Hill. Charley, I believe your words were "milquetoast and incompetent"? I find it really depressing if this is the best we can do.

CMJ
Nov 7th, 2012, 12:31:33 PM
As someone who straddles the line on whether I am a conservative or liberal, I think this article explains why I have liked Obama's presidency and voted for him this time out. He's turned out to be more or less where I am. A reasoned, maybe slightly right of center administrator.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2012/11/obama_the_moderate_republican_what_the_2012_electi on_should_teach_the_gop.html?wpisrc=most_viral

Morgan Evanar
Nov 7th, 2012, 12:39:27 PM
BuffJedi, I am a Romney voter telling you to shut up until you have something more to contribute than histrionics and death threats.

My feelings are much the same as Mitch's. I understand the majority of posters here are anti-Republican if not entirely pro-Democrat. My own position is not so much pro-Republican as generally conservative. I think government growth should be limited where possible. What I see from the Obama administration is a reckless, breathless rampage toward expanded regulation and control with zero accountability and transparency, despite the promises that this would be the most transparent administration in history. We haven't had a budget in three years. His crowning legislation was a monstrously huge health care bill nobody read before passing, and to which a growing list of major companies has sought and obtained exemptions. His administration's response to the Benghazi terror attack was nothing short of reprehensible, whether by incompetence or by design.

The Presidential election was not the only one I cared about. I was deeply hoping that Josh Mandel would take over Sherrod Brown's senate seat for Ohio. Brown's been the gold standard for pork barrel spending and cronyism for twenty years in Congress, while, during his term as Ohio treasurer, Mandel helped boost our credit rating to tops in the country with bipartisan efforts. I had hoped that some fresh ideals and willingness to work across the aisle might reinvigorate the Senate and turn it into something other than a massive logjam. But we've got the status quo in the White House and on Capitol Hill. Charley, I believe your words were "milquetoast and incompetent"? I find it really depressing if this is the best we can do.I most disagree with your assessment but I can understand why you feel that way.

The budget is largely a product of the House and Senate, you can lay most of the blame there.

I'm interested in what lead you to your conclusions on Benghazi, though.

Dragon
Nov 7th, 2012, 12:44:19 PM
One major factual quibble with that article - the $716 billion Obama hacked from Medicare was in order to pay for Obamacare in an effort to call it deficit-neutral. That's not a savings, especially when the CBO presents reports counting that money as funds for both Obamacare and Medicare.

Yog
Nov 7th, 2012, 01:54:36 PM
The subprime mortgage crisis came about because of regulation put in place by Clinton, stating that if banks wanted to still service government loans, they HAD to give loans to those with poor credit. The banks didn't like this, but as government loans are a massive section of the loan servicing industry, they had to go along with it.
Is it not correct that the banks allowed for far more subprime mortgages than they were mandated to do though? The banks were able to sell the foreclosed homes for inflated prices, at a profit. In addition, the mortgages were bundled up as CDO's, which the investment banks bought, and they made huge profits also. That is, until the bubble burst, and panic spread.

Halajiin Rabeak
Nov 7th, 2012, 02:06:59 PM
Is it not correct that the banks allowed for far more subprime mortgages than they were mandated to do though? The banks were able to sell the foreclosed homes for inflated prices, at a profit. In addition, the mortgages were bundled up as CDO's, which the investment banks bought, and they made huge profits also. That is, until the bubble burst, and panic spread.

It wasn't the banks who sold most of the subprime mortgages, it was a lot of small loan-officer affiliations who then sold bundled packages of mortgages to the banks.


The banks were able to sell the foreclosed homes for inflated prices, at a profit.

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

Seriously, you think the bank MAKES money in foreclosure sales? Oh man, that's rich! I worked three years in foreclosure, and trust me, the bank sure as hell does NOT make profit off of FC's; the bank often loses boatloads of money on every FC it does. The bundled costs associated with those are beyond massive, and then there's the cost of property preservation, paying for taxes and liens held by the city/HOA, the entire eviction process and its myriad fees and delays, costing the bank even more, and then marketing, all on top of the loss the bank already sustained. Trust me, the LAST thing a bank wants to do with a property is foreclose.

And, to be clear: investment banks and mortgage servicing are two entirely different things, often having very little to do with each other, other than the base of the product involved in the investment.

To be fair, it is a very common misconception that the bank makes money off of foreclosed properties, but the sad reality is that they - other in very rare exceptions - do not. And with more and more people trashing their properties before being evicted, the cost of foreclosure and re-marketing is only going up, making it even more difficult for the banks to keep from hemorrhaging money in the whole process.

Long story short, many people got loans they should not have had, and a LOT of shady loan-officers took advantage of ill-informed people who didn't bother to do their homework about adjustable rate mortgages. ARM's are not for a homeowner, they are for an investor, and anyone who wants to be a homeowner has the personal responsibility to sit down and study the whole process before embarking on such a massive contractual agreement. No one forced people to get these loans.

Park Kraken
Nov 7th, 2012, 04:31:17 PM
I cannot help but feel that the past four years of being under Obama has been like being under an additional eight years of Bush, and that by time all is said and done, we'll have been under twenty four years of Bush. If Obama would stop trying to scupper this program and that program to pay or make way for this new program and that new program and scaring the bejesus of out everyone in the process, the economy would well enough recover on its own, as we've seen over the past two years.

Tear
Nov 7th, 2012, 05:05:29 PM
The U.S.A is SO *UCKED!, the only hope we have now is that this piece of $hilt dies soon(of natural causes of course). I am no longer a United States citizen.I'm lucky, I can afford to move from this *hit hole of a country(and I will) but I feel sad for the people that cant and will have to stay.How's that song go ..oh, Canada oh, Canada.....with all their faults,its better than serving the Muslim brother hood :/

No, no. We're good. Canada is all full up. Sorry. Try Mexico.

The Original BuffJedi
Nov 7th, 2012, 06:47:57 PM
All im going to say , if you got the nuts to talk shit to me on the internet, you best have the nuts to do it in my face, I dont..and i aint playing. The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the presidency. It will be easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to an electorate willing to have such a man for their president. The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who is a mere symptom of what ails us. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince. The republic can survive a Barack Obama. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president.- From a Czech newspaper editorial

The Original BuffJedi
Nov 7th, 2012, 06:55:21 PM
the only hope we have now is that this piece of $hilt dies soon(of natural causes of course).

I'm amazed you think your amendment makes that deplorable statement acceptable.
Yeah, those bastards that wished Hitler had died sooner are "deplorable" too..I am going to say this once, and once only..dont fuck with me.:angel

The Original BuffJedi
Nov 7th, 2012, 06:57:38 PM
The U.S.A is SO *UCKED!, the only hope we have now is that this piece of $hilt dies soon(of natural causes of course). I am no longer a United States citizen.I'm lucky, I can afford to move from this *hit hole of a country(and I will) but I feel sad for the people that cant and will have to stay.How's that song go ..oh, Canada oh, Canada.....with all their faults,its better than serving the Muslim brother hood :/

No, no. We're good. Canada is all full up. Sorry. Try Mexico.
bet there is a house for sale in your neighborhood , funny, your full..been searching the web...all kinds of land and house"s for sale. Guess that means you Lied??

Banner Laverick
Nov 7th, 2012, 06:57:45 PM
If you think Canada has "faults", then you can kindly move to a different country. Especially if you have a problem with people of different religious faiths, because even in my tiny town, we have a mosque. Canada encourages people to keep their own ethnic practices/religious beliefs/whatever, so we have a really diverse culture (America is a melting pot, Canada is a salad bowl, lol). We also have free government provided health care, sexual health clinics and legal gay marriage!


No igloos though. Sorry about that.


(btw, I'm super happy that Obama got in. Good job America. Also wow, Buff, just wow. -_-)

Crusader
Nov 7th, 2012, 07:00:16 PM
Please everybody chill. It is just an election after all. There is no reason to say things that we will regret in the future.

The Original BuffJedi
Nov 7th, 2012, 07:01:42 PM
If you think Canada has "faults", then you can kindly move to a different country. Especially if you have a problem with people of different religious faiths, because even in my tiny town, we have a mosque. Canada encourages people to keep their own ethnic practices/religious beliefs/whatever, so we have a really diverse culture (America is a melting pot, Canada is a salad bowl, lol). We also have free government provided health care, sexual health clinics and legal gay marriage!


No igloos though. Sorry about that.


(btw, I'm super happy that Obama got in. Good job America. Also wow, Buff, just wow. -_-) I KNOW !!its the biceps, i get WOW a LOT :) thanks for noticing :) ..Sorry guys, I love America,(or did) If I didnt I would be like the rest of you sheep and follow and drink the Kool_aid :(

The Original BuffJedi
Nov 7th, 2012, 07:03:59 PM
Please everybody chill. It is just an election after all. There is no reason to say things that we will regret in the future. I was attacked, and when attacked, I respond in kind. People dont like my opinions and truth..FINE! attack me..YOUR FUCKED!

Banner Laverick
Nov 7th, 2012, 07:04:10 PM
It just makes you look bad when you speak like that - it's cool to love your country, but death threats and conspiracies just make for bad threads and big arguments.

Agree to disagree, and do what you can in your own life to make America the best it can be, maybe?

The Original BuffJedi
Nov 7th, 2012, 07:06:03 PM
It just makes you look bad when you speak like that - it's cool to love your country, but death threats and conspiracies just make for bad threads and big arguments.

Agree to disagree, and do what you can in your own life to make America the best it can be, maybe?
SHOW ME A DEATH THREAT!!!! SHOW ME A DEATH THREAT!!!

Banner Laverick
Nov 7th, 2012, 07:11:48 PM
Saying Obama should die? Telling everyone who disagrees with your opinion to fuck off/you're fucked? It makes you look bad, when you could be stating your case in a much more better way.

Everyone has a right to their opinion, but there's a way to get your point across without being insulting or aggressive. Might just be me being a polite little Canadian though.

Pierce Tondry
Nov 7th, 2012, 07:25:09 PM
Everyone has a right to their opinion, but there's a way to get your point across without being insulting or aggressive. Might just be me being a polite little Canadian though.

There is ALWAYS a better way and you are right to say this. Kudos to you for doing so.


SHOW ME A DEATH THREAT!!!! SHOW ME A DEATH THREAT!!!

Well, I might as well weigh in at this point.

Buff, it's very clear she was referring to your original comment regarding your hope that Obama dies during his second term. Hoping another person dies is pretty reprehensible no matter how you couch it. There's enough death and destruction in the world that we can get by without wishing for more; I've felt that loss and do not wish it on anyone. Furthermore, you're not doing yourself or this discussion any favors by continuing to behave as you are. Kindly stop.


But we've got the status quo in the White House and on Capitol Hill. Charley, I believe your words were "milquetoast and incompetent"? I find it really depressing if this is the best we can do.

Part of the issue as I see it is that we have a bad incentivization system for government positions - but that's a whole other kettle of fish.


I'm sorry you can't possibly accept a viewpoint that isn't your own, Mark, and that you think I'm some idiot.

Don't invest the time and energy into responding to comments like that. It isn't worth it.

Morgan Evanar
Nov 7th, 2012, 07:28:05 PM
Buff, your behavior has been completely unacceptable and you're getting a 5 day vacation from the forums.

I am not in an especially tolerant mood for people to abuse each other. Be polite, and if you can't, don't post in the thread.

Darth Turbogeek
Nov 7th, 2012, 08:02:24 PM
Han Solo lets Nate Silver tell him the odds

Figrin D'an
Nov 7th, 2012, 08:29:22 PM
So, some other interesting things that happened around the country last night (remember, it was more than just electing a president)


- Two states passed ballot initiatives to legalize limited possession and usage of marijuana (Colorado and Washington). This sets up a rather interesting potential conflict with the federal government. DEA vs. states rights, etc.

- Three states (Maryland, Maine and Washington) passed ballot initiatives to legalize same sex marriage. The state of Minnesota also voted down a measure that would have banned same sex marriage.

- Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisconsin) becomes the first openly gay Senator in US history. She previously served in the House of Representatives.

- Both GOP Senate candidates who made questionable comments regarding rape and abortion in the case of rape were defeated soundly. In Indiana, Joe Donnelly (D) defeated Richard Mourdock (R) by 6 percentage points, while in Missouri, Claire McCaskill (D) defeated Todd Akin (R) by 16 percentage points.


A couple of additional things I found rather important and poignant about the presidental election results:

- Mitt Romney won the white male demographic, and more specifically white men ages 45 and older. Every other measured demographic was won by Barack Obama.

- In 2004, the electorate was about 77% Caucasian (white). In 2008, it was 75%. This year, it was 72%. In 2016, it's projected to be somewhere between 69-70%.


These two things point to a major problem for the GOP. Their traditional base is shrinking, and can no longer be counted on to power them to wins in national elections. I would very much expect a big power struggle in the GOP over the next couple of years, as it's become very clear that the party needs to reinvent itself.

Darth Turbogeek
Nov 7th, 2012, 08:40:19 PM
There's also Porto Rico voted to petion for statehood. Obama and Romney both were not going to oppose. You might get a new flag if Congress agrees to the petion

Jedieb
Nov 7th, 2012, 08:44:44 PM
Where to begin... I feel I could write for ages...

The Republican Party
This was the modern Republican Party's last chance chance to win the Presidency. It's OVER. This isn't an exaggeration. It's an easy observation to make by looking at the make up of the electorate and the changing demographics of this country. Look at every thing the Republicans had going for them:

*An incumbent with the highest unemployment rate since FDR. And FDR's economy was booming and his 9% unemployment rate was getting lower at a much faster rate than we're experiencing. (And we are seeing unemployment going down, that's a trend that you can clearly see. We've been under 8% for 2 months now.)

*This recovery has been one of the slowest we've ever seen.

*Obamacare barely survived a Supreme Court decision. Obama had to waste a ridiculous amount of political capital just to get it passed. In typical fashion, the Democratic Party did in 3 years what the Republican Party would have crammed through in 3 months.

*The Democrats had their asses handed to them in 2010 because when a fringe breaks off from the Republican Party they become Tea Partiers and they actually do the work that it takes to get people elected. What in the flying fuck have the Wall Street Occupiers accomplished? Have they gotten anyone elected? Does the Senate majority leader or Pelosi have to confer with Wall Street Occupiers in Congress before he or she makes a move?

*Republican enthusiasm was much higher than it was 4 years ago. Obama did even worse with white voters, worse than Mondale or Dukakis.

How the hell did Republicans lose this election? First, they lost this election because at a national level they are an anachronism. Hispanics? Screw them, Let's follow Sheriff Joe and build fences and round up illegals. In fact, whenever we mention Hispanics, let's make sure that we use word "illegal" because they're practically the same. My friggin' parents came to this country in the 60's fleeing a communist scumbag. They've voted Republican in every election since they became citizens. My father is 80 and my mother is 72. Those two Cubans stood in line for 5 hours in Florida so they could vote for Romney. But their two children living in St. Pete and SW Virginia? They both voted for the Democrat. For far too many Republicans the H on our voter ID's make us foreign and somehow less American. A sign of a future that scares the crap out of them. It's not that the Democratic Party is bending over backward and giving us Unicorn Rides and free blow jobs, but they're not openly hostile to us and babbling about self deportation and throwing fits whenever sensible immigration reform is brought up.

Young people? They never vote. It's always around 16 to 18%. The 18% from 2008? That was a spike that Obama has no chance at matching again. Well, the youth vote made 19% percent of the electorate. Are they still voting way behind the other age groups? Yes, but they're starting to actually give a crap and they're at least voting more. The Dems have now significantly won the youth vote for 3 consecutive Presidential elections. As these voters age they'll get more conservative, that's a product of losing calcium and hair, but most will keep voting Democratic while more and more older Republican voters die off.

Black People. Do I even need to go over this one? The Republicans tossed that vote aside in 1965 and have never looked back. Inside the bubble black people vote for Obama because he's black, how obvious can it be? Al Gore got over 95% of the black vote in 2000 and Kerry got over 94% in 2004. Repeated studies have shown that Al Gore and John Kerry ARE TWO OF THE WHITEST MEN ON THE PLANET.

Women. Wow, the Republican meltdown here was spectacular. One Tea Party backed cluster fuck after another. How in the hell do you turn your back on a decent moderate like Lugar and hand the keys to your Senate hopes to the likes of... I can't even separate Akin from Murdock. They seem like Tea Party robots who are desperately trying to out pro life each other. Tea Party Senate hopefuls went 0 for 6 yesterday. Let that sink in.

Gays and Lesbians. After a run of more than 30 straight wins in denying these people marriage equality it looks like they went 0 for 4 last night. Apparently, God decided they weren't going to be burning in hell this election cycle. Some Republicans don't realize they're on the losing side of history on this. Years from now, LGBT unions will be looked upon no differently than interracial ones. There's a ton of reasons why Modern Family is the highest rated sit com on TV. Primarily, it's hilarious. Secondly, Sofia is so hot she can kick start a 747. But it's also strikingly NORMAL in today's America. A couple of guys in California with an adopted daughter? zzzzzzz... The Dems were able to elect a Lesbian last night. The fight is OVER.

Science and Math? Screw that noise! Let's see, we have a Republican House member who believes that the Earth is a few thousand years old? Evolution and science are lies straight from the pit of hell? Obviously, this guy needs to be on the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology. I repeat, Georgia Rep. Paul Broun is on the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology. Are you fucking kidding me? Nate Silver is one of my nerd heroes. Look at how he got attacked this election cycle. What is this? MATH IS SHOWING THAT OBAMA IS WINNING?! This must be witchcraft! Obviously Silver is a partisan hack who's such an ideologue that he's purposely skewing the numbers. We'll counter that with unskwed.com. Math and Science are no match for the Bible and our guts! When Silver predicted that the Republicans were going to pick up around 60 seats in 2010 I didn't attack him or question his integrity. I resigned myself to the fact that an ass kicking was coming. What die hard partisan Republicans never understood about Silver was that he loves MATH more than he does Obama. I know Sabermetric guys like him. They often love the numbers more than players or teams. It's just how they're built. But it wasn't just Silver they went after. They attacked other models who had similar predictions. Math was no match for their gut and what they were hearing inside the bubble. Silver went 50 fOr 51 four years ago, last night it looks like he went 51 for 51. Yes, Math is real.

The Bubble
This one is huge. I'm going to call on Jon Stewart here. Many Republicans are simply living on Bullshit Mountain. The only network on Bullshit Mountain is FOX and the only radio station plays Rush 24/7. Hannity, Limpbaugh, and company are the ONLY voices to be trusted. Obama really was born in Kenya. The economy isn't in an observable slow recovery, it's in shambles. Unemployment isn't slowly improving, it's out of control. Benghazi is a scandal on par with Watergate. It's such a disgrace Obama should resign. Holy crap, did you see the Republican pundits' predictions before the election? What the hell is wrong with George Will? I was always puzzled that someone as deliberate and intelligent as him would go out of his way to attack climate science at every turn, but he actually predicted 300+ ECs for Romney. He actually thought the marriage vote would give Romney Wisconsin (or Minn. I don't remember). What polls was he looking at? does he know the 80's are dead and gone? Did everyone see Rove make an ass of himself over Ohio last night? it was ridiculous. Dick Morris doesn't deserve his first name. It's an insult to penises every where. I could go on and on. (Yes, MSNBC is it's liberal doppelganger, but at least it's living in this century.)

If you didn't see Donald Trumps tweets last night you missed comedy gold. That walking mop of hair was actually leading in polls during the primary silly season. WTF? That's the kind of guy Romney had to out conservative to get the nomination. That's pathetic.

When I rant like this I know that these observations do not apply to all Republicans and conservatives. Yes, I should have been using the qualifier "some" over and over but typing is hard and I'm lazy. I enjoy reading conservatives like Andrew Sullivan. The Dish is one of my favorite sites and I visit it often. That's the kind of conservative the RNC needs more of. This country needs a Republican party that's not tethered to the angry white man evangelical government is evil women's bodies can terminate rape pregnancies on their own electorate. IT'S SHRINKING AND IT'S NOT COMING BACK. Republicans have now lost the popular vote in 5 of the last 6 Presidential Elections. If they don't change they're going to lose 5 of the next 6 as well.

This country needs to have 2 legitimate choices every 4 years. There's going to be a battle over the soul of the Republican party over the next 4 years. If the far right wins and they decide that their mistake was not going with Santorum, Perry, or Gingrich, then the only real choice in 2016 will be Hillary or Biden.

For the record, I'm no longer a Democrat. I consider myself an Independent now. I gave up on the party during Obama's first term. Not because of the man, I actually think he's done a solid job considering the economy he inherited and the opposition he faced in Congress. But I came to the jarring realization that a Republican President with both houses would have gotten twice as much done with half the effort. Granted, it would have resulted in a war with Iran, a bigger deficit, a court that could overturn Roe v. Wade, and blah, blah, blah. The only thing an opposing Democratic Party would have done was grab it's ankles and taken it. I'd be intrigued by a Christie candidacy, but I fear what the inevitable run to hard right during the primaries would do to him. I don't think he'd could do it and not tell them all to go hump themselves. And I doubt that would win him many Tea Party votes.

I don't agree with anything Buff has said. But I will not attack him personally. Firstly, he's quite a large man, I am not. But I know way too many people that vote differently from me and most of them are decent people. We just vote differently. That's it. Buff and I will never agree on politics. But we probably have more in common than not. I'm a liberal atheist. I don't conduct bizarre pagan rituals in my back yard. I have a DD-214 that says I served in the military, I believe in marriage, I will DIE married to the woman laying here next to me, I love my country. I don't think most FOX viewers would match me with what Hannity says about people who vote like I do.

Pierce Tondry
Nov 7th, 2012, 09:08:25 PM
These two things point to a major problem for the GOP. Their traditional base is shrinking, and can no longer be counted on to power them to wins in national elections. I would very much expect a big power struggle in the GOP over the next couple of years, as it's become very clear that the party needs to reinvent itself.

One thing I've noticed: a lot of the GOP's approach has been to demonize certain classes of voters and letting their wingnut candidates say things without shutting them down. The Romney "47%" comments turned off so many people I know, even without bringing the "rape/abortion/reproductive rights" comments into the picture. GOP messaging on social issues is so backhanded and inconsistent it turns people off to some of the reasonable things they have to say on economic fronts. I am very curious how they will deal with that.

Morgan Evanar
Nov 7th, 2012, 09:09:33 PM
Eb all you need to do is drop the mike and strut away.

Figrin D'an
Nov 7th, 2012, 09:11:28 PM
There's also Porto Rico voted to petion for statehood. Obama and Romney both were not going to oppose. You might get a new flag if Congress agrees to the petion

Very true. I knew I was forgetting one as I was writing that up.

The Puerto Rico statehood possibility is intriguing, just from the aspect of it changing the numbers in Congress (particularly the Senate).

Jedieb
Nov 7th, 2012, 09:18:08 PM
Eb all you need to do is drop the mike and strut away.

GOODNIGHT CLEVELAND!!!!

Halajiin Rabeak
Nov 7th, 2012, 09:27:13 PM
I feel that the constant and immediate demonizing by the general news media of any Republican or conservative also has played a major factor in recent races. Yes, everyone loves to say that Fox news is lies and bullshit, but I could call the same on the average night of MSNBC. Only it's not just MSNBC, but a majority of the news media as a whole.

I feel there has been a movement to hate Republicans and conservatives, and I constantly see stereotypes such as racist, homophobe, crazy Chistian, and more slapped onto anyone who might be a conservative, when most are just everyday, normal people.

People who know me know that I do have a big pet peeve about race. I don't believe it makes a shit-lick of difference what color you are or where you came from, or even what legacy you might have from your parents. Each person is their own person, and should be treated as such. Not as a color, not as a class or creed, but as a single person with their own decisions to make and their own lives to lead.

EB, though you said you don't mean all conservatives are like what you wrote up there, in your heart you still do carry those prejudices against them for those very things. That's hurtful, and deconstructive thinking.

You say Republicans lost the race because of those factors, but I think the bigger factor is that so many people these days don't want to accept personal responsibility for their lives and their roles in the rebuilding of this great nation. It won't come around if we all just sit and wait, dependent on the government to solve our problems for us; people have to actually work and do.

And, to make a generalization of my own, many people I meet to day simply don't want to put in the effort, or take any of the responsibility themselves when they can just blame others.

Figrin D'an
Nov 7th, 2012, 09:31:11 PM
Oh, Onion, how you make me laugh...

http://www.theonion.com/video/after-obama-victory-shrieking-whitehot-sphere-of-p,30284/

Jedieb
Nov 7th, 2012, 09:49:36 PM
I feel that the constant and immediate demonizing by the general news media of any Republican or conservative also has played a major factor in recent races. Yes, everyone loves to say that Fox news is lies and bullshit, but I could call the same on the average night of MSNBC. Only it's not just MSNBC, but a majority of the news media as a whole.

I feel there has been a movement to hate Republicans and conservatives, and I constantly see stereotypes such as racist, homophobe, crazy Chistian, and more slapped onto anyone who might be a conservative, when most are just everyday, normal people.

People who know me know that I do have a big pet peeve about race. I don't believe it makes a shit-lick of difference what color you are or where you came from, or even what legacy you might have from your parents. Each person is their own person, and should be treated as such. Not as a color, not as a class or creed, but as a single person with their own decisions to make and their own lives to lead.

EB, though you said you don't mean all conservatives are like what you wrote up there, in your heart you still do carry those prejudices against them for those very things. That's hurtful, and deconstructive thinking.

You say Republicans lost the race because of those factors, but I think the bigger factor is that so many people these days don't want to accept personal responsibility for their lives and their roles in the rebuilding of this great nation. It won't come around if we all just sit and wait, dependent on the government to solve our problems for us; people have to actually work and do.

And, to make a generalization of my own, many people I meet to day simply don't want to put in the effort, or take any of the responsibility themselves when they can just blame others.

HR, I think you mistook one of the overall thrusts of my post. I mean more to indict the Republican PARTY than many of the individuals in it. I want it to be better. We need it to be better. I'll paraphrase one of my heroes, George Carlin. "I love individuals, but I HATE groups." We could work in an office and be in adjoining cubicles and neither of us would burn the other's work space down. Yes, you might one morning see your office covered in pink 47%ers post it notes, but violence? Hate? NEVER! It's the positions I detest, not the people.

And Trump's hair. I hate the man's hair.

Jedieb
Nov 7th, 2012, 09:56:24 PM
And, to make a generalization of my own, many people I meet to day simply don't want to put in the effort, or take any of the responsibility themselves when they can just blame others.

One quick point about this, I wholeheartedly agree with that statement of yours. I DETEST lazy people. I friggin' can't stand them. And many of these slugs live in trailer parks, pass on the responsibility of raising their kids to the ignorant parents that sired them and they vote Republican every chance they get. Personal responsibility does not belong to any one party.

Darth Turbogeek
Nov 7th, 2012, 09:58:21 PM
but I think the bigger factor is that so many people these days don't want to accept personal responsibility for their lives and their roles in the rebuilding of this great nation

Sitting my ass in Sydney I would have agreed years ago. Actually SEEING Americans first hand in their own hand, forced a view change and I'm calling bullshit. You are insulting what in the whole are a great bunch of can do people who are not reliant on government and would rather make their own way in the world. Some of you lot call me deeply cynical and negative (That's a true statement and I am not apologising for a second for it, the last 10 years are much to blame) but this is not something I would insult America with. This garbage is thrown about here and it's a play from the John Howard entitlement mentality book - and it's every bit as untrue here as it is there.

Frankly the parasites on society arent the poor or the middle class who just want an opportunity to get ahead in life - it's the rich who one one hand suck on the government's tits and with the other curse those who we SHOULD reach out to and give a hand. They are hypocrites the whole fucking lot of them and it should be them you go with pitchforks and torches.

The other fact is that socialist policies do not breed a bunch of takers and no givers. We have Universal health care, unemployment benifits for all, a true social safety net - fuck we even pay women when they have a baby - and yet we have some of the highest rates of volunteer activity, willingness to work and to go ahead with life. Your country is not full of welfare queens. It is filled with decent abeit too many worryingly under-educated peopel who take pride in themselves and what they do. This government dependance is Fox News level rot.


JediEB - Bravo sir.

Halajiin Rabeak
Nov 7th, 2012, 11:12:29 PM
Mark, you visited this country. I live here.

Go boil your head, you self-righteous, self-cented ass.

Loklorien s'Ilancy
Nov 7th, 2012, 11:14:56 PM
Calm down please. Name calling solves nothing, and I know you know that.

Morgan Evanar
Nov 7th, 2012, 11:25:33 PM
Apparently we can't be civil at all.