Uprising in Egypt

[Jedi Master Carr]

Was wondering what everybody thought of the crisis in Egypt? The situation is very worrisome, as it could go in any direction. Right now we have protests and looting in the streets. Mubarak is probably finished, I can't see him surviving this mess. The best thing he could do is call for elections and say he won't run. If he does those things, he might survive this until then. Still, we have to worry about Islamic radicals taking over the country, although so far most of the protests have seemed pretty much moderates. Hopefully, this continues for the coming days.

[Dasquian Belargic]

The BBC is reporting that over 100 have died since the rallies began. It's pretty terrifying to see footage of what state Cairo is in... rioting, looting, chaos.

[Xavier Synik]

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the military's central command building or whatever they have.

The military is the key, which I know that's usually the case in situations like this. But they really are.

At some point it's going to come down to a decision to for the military leaders. At some point Mubarak is going to order them to do more then just sit there at night.

They either choose to go against his orders and Mubarak is overthrown. What replaces him is another issue..

Or they follow his orders, and I think that's when things could get really messy.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The U.S could pressure him to have elections by threatening to suspend our aid to them.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Eh, maybe we should just let the Egyptian people figure it out for themselves. After all, we had our own bloody revolution, once upon a time.

[Darth Turbogeek]

The U.S could pressure him to have elections by threatening to suspend our aid to them.

You mean The USA can stop supporting a cruel dictactor who has had tens of thousands jailed, tortured and put to death while doing utterly fuck all for the millions in abject poverty while a tiny upper class sucks the lifeblood from what money the country does get? The very guns and tanks that would be used to crush a rebellion against said dictactor are paid, supplied and supported by the USA.

Tell me what's so bad about the Muslim Brotherhood in comparison - who aren't going to get near power anyway, El Baradea will be the one who would be the one who is in best position to take over.

It can not be emphasized enough that the real evil isn't some specter of Islam but the actual, real dictators that are now looking on in fear as Tunisia falls to real change and hopefully genuine freedom. Much of it started by a taxi driver who burned himself alive and much of what has been found out with Wikileaks releases about what is really going on in Middle East countries.

As a more general comment - We really can not tolerate "freedom" as being defined by who supports the USA and it's goals, for that's exactly why half these countries have continued to exist under harsh dictatorships. This is a appalling hypocracy and using terms like "Islamic Radicals" used as some sort of boogeyman when your own country has not only been backing this genuinely evil man to the hilt but is still percecuting genuinely unjust wars and also destabilising countries for it's own ends is really just not on.

I'll be happy to see Egypt get a government of it's own choosing, no matter what it's religious background -and as said I very much doubt it'll be radicals as they realise the economy depends on tourism and the Suez Canal.

[Figrin D'an]

I seriously doubt the US government does much of anything, other than sit back, not take sides and throw out a few token comments against violence and the use of force against civilians. Just like everyone else, they are in "wait and see" mode right now.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I disagree, I think we can pressure Mubarak and the Egyptian govt to have free elections. I think we will wait a few days though before we even try something like that and

Eh, maybe we should just let the Egyptian people figure it out for themselves. After all, we had our own bloody revolution, once upon a time. We did have help overthrowing Britain. Without French, Dutch, and Spanish aid, we never would have won our independence.

[Morgan Evanar]

I disagree, I think we can pressure Mubarak and the Egyptian govt to have free elections. I think we will wait a few days though before we even try something like that and

Eh, maybe we should just let the Egyptian people figure it out for themselves. After all, we had our own bloody revolution, once upon a time. We did have help overthrowing Britain. Without French, Dutch, and Spanish aid, we never would have won our independence.Yup.

I think the best thing would be to push for elections before more people wind up dead.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Things are getting really bad in Egypt. I think Mubarak and his thugs are behind these gangs causing this violence. I think the U.S. should pull our aid to Egypt, if we England and the European Union combine we could cripple Egypt into poverty, forcing Mubarak to resign.

[Darth Turbogeek]

Crippling a regime to poverty works so well that I..... cant think of an example where it works.

And can name a dozen off the top of my head where all it did was keep the dictactor in power - see Nth Korea, Cuba, Iraq, Iran.....

:facepalm:

When will people realise sanctions only hurt the poor?

But it would be nice if the USA stop military aid to said dictactors. MmmmK?

[Jedi Master Carr]

What other option is there? We can't do anything military. All we can do is pull there aid and issue sanctions. Mubarak won't last long without our aid.

[Darth Turbogeek]

What other option is there? We can't do anything military. All we can do is pull there aid and issue sanctions. Mubarak won't last long without our aid.

Sanctions, no bad idea. Aid? Should never have been happening in the first place. Who's been supportig him the most in the last 30 years?

[Anne Phoenix]

When will people realise sanctions only hurt the poor?

And kill people when it leads to war. I can think of at least one nation off the top of my head that launched a suprise attack on one of our naval bases when we hit them with an oil and scrap steel embargo/sanction.

[Morgan Evanar]

What other option is there? We can't do anything military. All we can do is pull there aid and issue sanctions. Mubarak won't last long without our aid.

Sanctions, no bad idea. Aid? Should never have been happening in the first place. Who's been supportig him the most in the last 30 years?Damn you Suez Canal, DAMN YOUUUUUUU!
(Not an excuse).

[Jedi Master Carr]

What other option is there? We can't do anything military. All we can do is pull there aid and issue sanctions. Mubarak won't last long without our aid.

Sanctions, no bad idea. Aid? Should never have been happening in the first place. Who's been supportig him the most in the last 30 years?

The aid was part of the Camp David peace accord. We gave Israel and Egypt the same amount as a reward for coming to peace. At the time, it was a great idea, especially since Sadat who was a great leader, was in charge of Egypt. He died and we kept the money going. So, why not use it to pull it. You also didn't answer my question what should the west do?

[Darth Turbogeek]

What other option is there? We can't do anything military. All we can do is pull there aid and issue sanctions. Mubarak won't last long without our aid.

Sanctions, no bad idea. Aid? Should never have been happening in the first place. Who's been supportig him the most in the last 30 years?

The aid was part of the Camp David peace accord. We gave Israel and Egypt the same amount as a reward for coming to peace. At the time, it was a great idea, especially since Sadat who was a great leader, was in charge of Egypt. He died and we kept the money going. So, why not use it to pull it. You also didn't answer my question what should the west do?

What do we do? I already said it. Stop supporting dictators.

And maybe even stop setting them up.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The U.S. aren't really setting them up anymore. The ones we did were a by product of the cold war. Back to the topic, the situation in Egypt is looking better since the military are now defending the protesters. I think the U.S. has convinced them to stop supporting Mubarak. We will have to wait to see what happens next.

[Darth Turbogeek]

The U.S. aren't really setting them up anymore. The ones we did were a by product of the cold war.





There is an extremely worrying blindness to the shit the USA does around the world in this forum and why.


Back to the topic, the situation in Egypt is looking better since the military are now defending the protesters. I think the U.S. has convinced them to stop supporting Mubarak. We will have to wait to see what happens next.

The USA has done no such thing, if anything it's been quite obvious the military have been either staying neutral or siding with protestors from the get going. It's also been very clear the USA has had no idea how to handle what is going on and continues to have no idea.

[Jedi Master Carr]

How the hell do you know? Are military leaders has been talking to theirs and I think it did something. Also, I disagree with you until recently the military took no side. They allowed the protesters to get beaten up and journalist hurt. They finally realized that Mubarak had to go. And I have to say you are the most leftist person on here. I am a liberal and I sure the hell don't think the USA is evil or anything with the way you are saying. With the way you talk we are committing genocide on a daily basis and have the worst government on the face of the earth. We do have Obama president and he is more friendly to Europe, and other nations than Bush ever was. About the evils the U.S., first every country is guilty of the same crap, it is part of human nature. Humans have done crappy things to each other since Ancient times. Second supporting dictators was part of the Cold War. We knew that if we didn't rig the elections the Soviets would. It was part of the mind games that went on in the period. I am not saying it was right but that was the game being played. I know way better than you about this situation, I am a historian and have studied history all my life. Go ahead and rant at me I don't care what the hell you think anymore.

[Darth Turbogeek]

How the hell do you know? Are military leaders has been talking to theirs and I think it did something. Also, I disagree with you until recently the military took no side. They allowed the protesters to get beaten up and journalist hurt. They finally realized that Mubarak had to go. And I have to say you are the most leftist person on here. I am a liberal and I sure the hell don't think the USA is evil or anything with the way you are saying. With the way you talk we are committing genocide on a daily basis and have the worst government on the face of the earth. We do have Obama president and he is more friendly to Europe, and other nations than Bush ever was. About the evils the U.S., first every country is guilty of the same crap, it is part of human nature. Humans have done crappy things to each other since Ancient times. Second supporting dictators was part of the Cold War. We knew that if we didn't rig the elections the Soviets would. It was part of the mind games that went on in the period. I am not saying it was right but that was the game being played. I know way better than you about this situation, I am a historian and have studied history all my life. Go ahead and rant at me I don't care what the hell you think anymore.

Its YOUR country that has been invading, torturing, supporting dictatorship s and being so fucking contrary to the stated values of your own constitution that frankly is the most disgusting.

You are not a historian, you are an excuse maker. That's how your government gets away with this. Countries do not have to act like this and simply saying it was part of the game is the most bullshit comment I've heard here and I've heard plenty.

I'm not left wing, I am simply "Lets stop fucking being assholes" - And YOUR country is the biggest hypocritical asshole on the planet. Obama is a hypocritical asshole who still has GITMO open and still supports dictactorships and STILL supports lobbing missiles into innocent family homes. This is 100% asshole behaviour and it's about time you lot put a government in that actually not only puts the words out there but also acts.

YEah and I'm not exactly happy with mine for it's involvement. "What the fuck, we are assholes" is exactly how I feel when I hear about our own citizens sent to Egypt to be tortured.