Corporate Sector folks?

[Parack Bell]

I know we got a few people who RP goings-on in the Corporate Sector and I'm kinda curious to see what folks got on the side with that area of space and that mini-faction. I'm kinda keen to RP a few things between them, the Cizerack, and a few other bit players like this guy right here. Anyway, sound off, and if you've got things you're working on and want to have some fun in the Tingel Arm and all points thereabouts, let me know!

[Constantia Visputin]

/hijack

Mr.Bell, healthy banking system is the core of every successful economy. The Empire wishes to establish good relations with the private initiative in banking sector to enhance stability and confidence in galactic commerce. Let me know if and when you have time for a meeting.

Regards
Constantia Visputin
Imperial minister of Commerce

/end hijack

[Ceto Rübezahl]

The Corporate Sector is getting assimilated into the Independents. They've cut off the whole Hydian Way, and they're gonna absorb it into their ranks, add their biological and technological distinctiveness to their own, etc.

Since we now have a Commerce Minister though, it might be worth looking for an alternative venue for those kind of semi-independent business get-togethers. Corellia, maybe?

[Miranda Tarkin]

I am confused on how that was happening since Gallus Tagge was working on business dealings prior to that and the Empire and the Corporate Sector were on good terms.

I missed something obviously O_o


edit - and if I recall right, Gallus Tagge has been currently in CSA space so what XD Did I just loose my husband?

[Tear]

I am confused on how that was happening since Gallus Tagge was working on business dealings prior to that and the Empire and the Corporate Sector were on good terms.

I missed something obviously O_o
The CSA and the Empire being on good terms is precisely the reason why it is being invaded and taken over by the Independents.



edit - and if I recall right, Gallus Tagge has been currently in CSA space so what XD Did I just loose my husband?
There will be a battle. I suppose his location would depend on if he can escape in the chaos or not?

P.S It's only flesh.

[Drin Kizael]

The Corporate Sector is getting assimilated into the Independents. They've cut off the whole Hydian Way, and they're gonna absorb it into their ranks, add their biological and technological distinctiveness to their own, etc.


Woah woah woah woah. Forgive me for overstepping any bounds and playing mod here, but... No.

I remember reading about the Independent Systems, and I remember seeing how they were right next to CSA space. That was all well and good. But I do not recall seeing anything about your guys just simply annexing a whole setting from the SW EU... which also happens to be "in use" so to speak by other role players.

Those threads may not be active right now (we miss you Tell Cho) but you can't just assume that you can go ahead and take over a place as important as the CSA. It has a fairly distinctive culture already, which I think other folks besides just me like having as is, to use some day if they wish. Stars End has been referenced by other players besides me, and they may want to use it again without fear of being restricted by Independent Confederate rules.

Just because you are positioned where you are does not mean you get to automatically take them over. If you seriously want to have the IC fleet set up interdictors along the hydian way or something, in an attempt to blockade them... That's an act of war. The CSA has a rather sizable picket fleet. Palpatine never bothered them for a reason. Plus, last I heard they were in a treaty with Tarkin's Empire in this universe.

So... consider this an appeal the mods. That's going a bit too far.

[Taataani Meorrrei]

Im a bit hazy on the details which is why I asked, sorry for kicking over anthills.

I know that I RP'ed the Cizerack negotiating with the Independents and using the CSA as a bargaining chip, in a "Bring me the head of John the Baptist" sort of way. The Pride has a huge list of financial grievances with the CSA, and although I don't care whether it comes or goes, I was at least wanting to write out that animosity in some fashion.

Sorry for the mess :(

[Ceto Rübezahl]

I also play the head of the Corporate Sector; I'm just too lazy to swap accounts. Tell Cho, back when he was around, was also consulted on this plan. So it isn't like the "inactive" people weren't consulted on this issue.

As for the rest of your post, some of the phrasing you've used leads me to believe you've not quite got the right impression of the Corporate Sector. You state, for example, that "Palpatine never bothered them for a reason." This is true, but the reason was that they were allied with the Empire: their fleet of ships has nothing to do with it. If you read around on Wookieepedia, it explains it better than I can in a limited amount of space.

I'm not going to argue the merits of this idea one way or another, because I have no desire to get into an argument over the issue. All I will point out is that the Corporate Sector was semi-independent before. It's now a bit more independent. There will be involvement from the Cizerack Pride as I understand it... and Stars End will still be there, and available for use. The territory will still be administered by the CSA. It just won't be the Empire holding the puppet strings. Ultimately, it changes very, very little.

With respect, I think you're overreacting a bit, Drin. But like I say, I have no desire to get into an argument on the issue, and that is of course just my opinion. :)

[Rolth Wygraant]

^^^ yes, this is how I figured it.

CSA seems to me like it's similar to the InterGalactic Banking Clan, and they're institutions in the galaxy that are "Too big to fail". I don't really think anybody can dissolve the CSA because it's not just a geopolitical entity, it's an economic center of gravity. I think it's more about influencing the brand name, if anything.

[Drin Kizael]

I took major liberties with Stars End only because the original building was blown up in the Bryan Daly novel. But beyond that, yes, I read all about the CSA in researching my character. Honestly, Wookipedia is about as reliable as it's parent wikipedia on some subjects. The CSA is so rarely referenced in the EU that much of the the article is literally just made up without references. It doesn't jibe with the CSA sourcebook sitting right here on my desk.

I meant that Palpatine never bothered them in the sense that he didn't go about his usual tactic of crushing them and trying to bring them under his heel. During the whole rise of the Empire and GCW, they remained isolated and used their vast wealth to build a fleet that would keep it that way should Palpatine renege on the deal. As a result, they turned out to be almost worse than the Empire in a lot of ways within their borders. But the Empire still benefited huge because all of the voting members also did business in the Core Worlds.

In your original post, you were not talking about a treaty. You said "absorb it into their ranks, add their biological and technological distinctiveness to their own, etc." ... IOW -- considering the pronoun confusion -- that sounds like conquering them. I can't imagine any scenario where the CSA would allow that, and I doubt the Empire would let that much wealth go without one hell of a fight.

Your second post is kind of the opposite of the first. If it now turns out that the CSA does NOT want to be allied with the Empire anymore, and they want to side with a new ally in a TREATY, seeing as how those worlds create a buffer between them and Tarkin... that's something else entirely. It doesn't make sense to me because they'd be sacrificing all of their business in Imperial space, but... I could maybe see them being that arrogant.

Except for the fact that I can't see how they would possibly give up any ownership of administration or their worlds, which they'd view as their company holdings. That is simply not how corporations think. Palpatine never pulled their strings. He needed their wealth. What would they really get in return for giving up control of their worlds, balanced against all that they would be sacrificing (meaning their business from the core worlds) as a byproduct of such a move?

All that aside, if you only mean that you'd form a treaty, and they still maintain their autonomy as just another member of the Independent (confederation? alliance? worlds? what do you call them?)... then yeah, that would change very little.

But that's not at all what it sounded like first time. Just sayin.

As clarification... please don't confuse intensity with anger. We're all friends here. This is a subject of which I am just way too knowledgeable. It's a setting near and dear to my heart because Bryan Daly's Han Solo books were among the first I read and remember well as a kid. The idea of the CSA being taken over without an epic series of threads to explain the transition just doesn't sit right with what's been established about them.

[Ceto Rübezahl]

Do you offer a concise edition of your posts, Drin? :mneh

Rather than nitpick your choice of language (which seems to be a sizeable chunk of what your post set out to do), all I'm gonna say is that the Independents are a Confederacy, and it will be a treaty type arrangement.

Is that enough to keep you happy, or do we all have to start drafting essays on the subject as well? :mischief

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

I just read the whole 'absorb it into their ranks etc' bit as a play off the ol' Borg chestnut. I don't think it was supposed to be as harsh or literal as it sounded - just a little sci-fi mix'n'match quoting :)

[Taataani Meorrrei]

As a married person, I'm very familiar with people agreeing and arguing about it at the same time.

What I'm saying is that Jace and Drin need to have a bromance wedding in Iowa under the Kirk vs Khan statue.

[Ceto Rübezahl]

Iowa, you say? I met a guy from there once...

http://www.williamshatner.com/fc/BostonLegalBillMark-72dpi.jpg

:mischief

[Drin Kizael]

It's all good. I'm not "mad". It's just that the whole Independent worlds thing was all well and good when it was carved out of an pretty much unused (so basically optional) part of space. But now he's kind of stepping on toes with a more established part of the EU.

Sorry, but that warrants discussion, IMO.

More importantly, he sounds like he's not really asking the Empire to play it out. He just announced it as if it's just said and done. With that kind of attitude, I can't help but question what else he thinks he can just do with that setting.

If the mods are okay with it, so am I. It's not likely that I'm going to set a story there again anyway. But maybe I'd like to. I just would like the option to without having to acknowledge stuff that other people are making up on their own that I don't think makes any sense. Especially after responding to my attempt at a civil post with so much snarky contempt in public.

But again, if the mods are cool with this development in the Fans setting happening in this manner... It's all good.

[Captain Untouchable]

For the record, I'm not "announcing" anything. I'm just drawing attention to the ongoing plot arc that Tear is meticulously posting out at the moment.

[Drin Kizael]

For the record, I'm not "announcing" anything. I'm just drawing attention to the ongoing plot arc that Tear is meticulously posting out at the moment.

Doing this plot arc in cooperation with... who, again? I'm at a loss seeing how meticulous this has been mapped out, too. No one had a hint that this was happening until last night in this very thread.

I'm just suggesting that this move is far more significant than you guys want to think. The CSA would be risking a lot of money and company holdings, and the Empire would be losing a lot of money and resources if that treaty were broken. It could arguably be seen as an act of war by the Independent Confederacy... which I thought was trying to be, ya know, independent.

To me it sounds more like a starting point for a pretty epic series of threads involving the Empire -- and possibly me -- not just a subplot inside a closed thread like the rest of the Indie Space was apparently formed.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Drin - see the indepedents FAQs here http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20212

It is something that has been in the works for a while.

[Drin Kizael]

Yes I saw that FAQ. And I say again that it was all well and good when it was carved out in a pretty unused sector of space, making all of those rules easier to play along with or ignore as one wanted by just staying away from there.

But now Tear and Cap are kinda stepping on toes here. Winning over the Cizerack and even adding select planets is one thing. Prompting the breakup of a treaty with a group as powerful as the Corporate Sector Authority is another entirely. That's news. It's not the kind of thing I would expect could just be done so (relatively) quietly.

But if that's how the mods feel, I'll just write off that part of the sandbox. No big. It's just a bummer because had I suspected this could happen, I'd have made Drin a Cathar and escaped from Kessel instead of tying his origins to the CSA.

[Rai'raa Anjumi]

Tear isn't on a lot, but maybe you could PM him with your concerns about the CSA, Drin? I don't know... I'm not personally vested in this, and the change doesn't affect my characters much, but he has been working on it for months. I'm sure if you talk to him some sort of compromise can be reached.

Well, reasonably sure.

TBH I wasn't aware the Independents were annexing the CSA either, but I may have skimmed the thread where it was stated. :uhoh

edit: dammit, this is LD

[Emelie Shadowstar]

Tear isn't on a lot, but maybe you could PM him with your concerns about the CSA, Drin?
^ LD is right.

It's obvious this is upsetting you, but I think all this was handled and talked about when Tear's plan was originally put up. Guessing you were away from the boards and such at that time or I'm assuming you would have brought this up when the folks who were RPing people in the Corporate Sector originally brought their concerns to the table. Sadly, I think people on both ends figured this was all sorted and dealt with... apparently not?


.... now would someone kindly start posting random images of silly/cute things in here? This thread is way too tense. :|

....*CUE HIJACK*
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk47/Nuime/star_wars_motivational_post.jpg

[Tear]

Okay lets see here. Where to start?

The Independents are at war with the Empire and by extension anyone Imperial aligned. So the Independents have always considered the CSA to be a hostile Imperial faction.

As for massive fleets, I've never read the books, so I'm not going to say differently. I will say how the CSA has been written on these forums thus far though. Which generally trumps the difference between whats written in EU and our boards. The CSA was written with a fleet yes, but aging and dependent on their Imperial allies for security.

It was my original hope to get Rossos/Tell Cho to meet with Tear and discuss a diplomatic resolution. In hopes that the alien factions would rise up and over throw the xenophobic Imperials. But in our OOC discussions it was decided ultimately Tell Cho couldn't risk trying to usurp the Imperials in the CSA because of possible reprisals to his species home world. So ultimately conflict would be the inevitable outcome.

How that conflict unraveled was never fleshed out until a few months ago. There being three factors that play a large part in the Independent invasion of CSA space.

1. The Independents are here to dethrone the Empire. The CSA is a fairly influential Imperial force currently. That is obviously a threat. The Hydian way was blockaded. Bastion, Fondor and Mandalore are then invaded essentially cutting CSA off from the Empire

2. The Cizerack joining the Independents. The Cizerack have some deep grievances with the CSA as they've dictated how trade is conducted through out the nearby sectors (if not most of the galaxy, especially the Hydian way). These policies are likely put in place by Imperials to benefit the Empire and their allies.

3. The flash point. This was something Jace had a hand in and It's a good idea too. His idea was that basically Tear, before his departure from the Empire proper, ordered the construction of a big ship (superweapon for Serena epic storyline). The exact details escape me at the moment (my apartment has turned into an easy bake oven) but the jist' is the Inquisitors catch wind of the ships construction and go to investigate. Tear, fearing the ship will be captured by the Empire, launches his invasion of the sector to try and secure it. The end result being he manages to capture the sector and removes the Imperial presence but loses the ship (which is taken by the Inquisitoriate) in the chaos.

I forget if the above idea was presented in the original Serena epic story thread. Or if it was agreed upon as that part of the story is still a ways off.


More importantly, he sounds like he's not really asking the Empire to play it out. He just announced it as if it's just said and done. With that kind of attitude, I can't help but question what else he thinks he can just do with that setting.
You'll forgive me if some people on these boards weren't consulted on the above idea. Its hard to find everyone who has involved themselves in a certain concept through its history. It's very hard actually. I know when this idea was originally discussed with Jace he did his best to contact those, who at the time, were most prominently involved with the CSA and like he mentioned before they gave it the green light.

Which people in the Empire are you referring to that we missed asking to play it out? Karl was consulted for the bit involving the Inquisitors. The Moff in charge was Ceto who is written by Jace. When time came to actually write the thread I'm sure there would have been an open call for others Imperial/Rebel/ and Cizerack if they wanted to get involved too.

So do not think I am just announcing plans without consulting others. This was discussed with the Imperials who were involved in the sector and the people who involved themselves with the CSA. We missed informing some people. It's bound to happen when we write on a board with so many characters. It doesn't mean we purposefully over stepped those people though. Try not to make assumptions.


Stars End has been referenced by other players besides me, and they may want to use it again without fear of being restricted by Independent Confederate rules.
Which rules and what specifically bothers you having the Independents in place over the Empire?

[Drin Kizael]

It's not upsetting me and I'm not trying to bait him. If anything, sincerely, it's the other way around. Now he's reading in some kind of insult because I "mistakenly" (???) thought he might be helping to drive a plot that he just informed everyone about (for the first time -- seriously, no one knew), and that I foolishly thought he was probably taking part in, seeing as how he plays a the leader of the CSA and all. Crazy leap in logic, I know. I don't know where I come up with this stuff.

Tear's been in the thread. He sees it going on. He can reply if he wishes. It won't matter.

I honestly don't give a shit anymore. I'm not "upset" (not sure why I would be either), though it is kinda frustrating, yeah. I tried to explain why. But I'm the only one who cared, so *shrug* The mods are indifferent, so Tear can do what he wants. Case closed. I've got way more important things to worry about.

No... I'm okay. Really. :rolleyes

Edit: I cross-posted with Tear. Didn't see his reply. Sorry. If those people who were just as confused at what was going on wish to speak up, feel free to. I got work to do.

[Anbira Hicchoru]

Y'all, lets keep it relaxed, and work beyond perceived slights on all sides. We've been writing together for a long time and we know how to hash things out and make things work. Nobody is trying to run roughshod over anybody else's ideas, and I think as long as we're able to communicate what we want and how we'd like to make things work, we can easily do that.

Right?

First off, I think the big elephant in the room is to figure whether or not the CSA survives as an entity no matter who "wins" in the scheme of things? Does it become our Vichy France or is it just outright re-organized. From what I read, it seems like its the former, which from what I'm reading seems to sound like what most people were wanting? Yes? No?

Let's hug it out bitches.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I wasn't actively aware of it, but I don't have a problem with it, and I am fairly certain I DID know about it just forgot. :mneh

I'm sure the mods aren't really indifferent, just all the hoops have been jumped through already. All this redundancy is really... redundant. :mischief

I hope this thread answered all your questions, Chuckles. :lol

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

We aren't being indifferent. I personally was waiting for Tear to post since he's a major player in this and I wanted him to weigh in on things.

[Drin Kizael]

"indifferent", "okay with it"... semantics. All I meant is that the mods appear to be okay with it. This isn't the drama you're looking for. Move along. It's easy to assume a hostile tone over text when people are preconditioned to rants. It's all good. I'm really just shrugging and rolling my eyes at the whole back and forth.

Had I been introduced to this topic by way of what Tear just lined out above, and in the tone that he just did... none of this misunderstanding would have happened. I'd have likely been as supportive as everyone else. So let's just stick with that.

Anyway...

The escalation in the war that this treaty break really should spark is something that Drin would be involved in, assuming that is what happens. If I read you right, you allude to the idea that the CSA might change their tune and actually try to gain the support of the alien factions in their borders? The enemy of my enemy kinda thing? That will be a very tough sell diplomatically after decades of war, but that's the kind of thing Jedi do.

Problem is... I got the impression that the Indie systems would not want anything to do with the Jedi, since we are allied with the Rebels. So I have no idea if Jedi involvement (or even just my involvement) is an option for the story or not.

[Anbira Hicchoru]

I think the Independents are kind of realpolitik when it comes to Jedi. I don't see them as ever supporting the Jedi outright, but I think there's been some sort of talk of using them in that very same "enemy of my enemy" sort of thing. It would be interesting if the Jedi went along, or against that sort of thing.

I think it would be kind of interesting to see the dynamics between the CSA and subjugated worlds within, yeah. Kind of the Star Wars version of the Anbar awakening?

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Um, I am well aware of the superweapon thing being a part of Serena's story, so please don't use me as an example of people who know nothing about this Drin, as I am not.

As I already posted I have probably just forgotten the details that I once knew. Something about two kids at home.. blahblahblah... anyway. :)

[Anbira Hicchoru]

Can we please do what I've asked a lot? Everybody including the mods who I'm sure are trying to help? Nobody's being a good guy or a bad guy here, I'm just honestly wanting a quantitative discussion of what people would like or would not like to see in the CSA.

Man, I'm really kind of bummed I even made this thread now.

[Hurst Falco]

A question I had that I think you'd have good insight on Drin - is there anything written on any relations between the CSA and the Banking Clan?

[Tear]

I've been hoping to get into a diplomatic encounter between the Rebellion and the Independents for a while. I would think the two, like charley said, are very 'enemy of my enemy'. It would be interesting encounter.

The two sides are different but have the same goals and their ideals aren't too terribly opposite. They're both fighting for freedom of some kind. Perhaps the Rebellion, unsure of what to make of the Independents, send an envoy with a couple Jedi to help gauge just what the Independents are about.

Are they simply Imperial Warlords grabbing territory? Are they actual freedom fighters? What are their intentions? Etc,

Maybe somewhere through the meeting the Independent make their intentions toward CSA clear. Maybe if Drin is one of the Jedi in the envoy he could request to partake in the invasion? Maybe oversee just what the Independents are about? Or he could even go behind CSA lines and try to rally the alien factions who are anti Imperial for when the invasion comes.

I think the invasion of the CSA and the after math can have several different outcomes.

If some of the alien factions support the Independents when they arrive, then obviously, the two sides can work out a more amicable deal. But if the Independents arrive and see the whole sector is dead set against them, obviously, their lenience toward those who fought against them won't be so generous.

Side note: Drin, the original super weapon idea was presented in SwFans presents (http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20894). With posts here (http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showpost.php?p=340787&postcount=58) and here (http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showpost.php?p=340846&postcount=63) making rough mention of the initial idea which, granted was refined in an MSN conversation. Though you might have been aware of it since you posted between both posts at the top of page 4.

[Drin Kizael]

A question I had that I think you'd have good insight on Drin - is there anything written on any relations between the CSA and the Banking Clan?

The major financial partner out of the founding members was Bank of the Core, a different group. Safe to say the IBC is not involved, since they back the Imperial Credit.

[Taataani Meorrrei]

Ah okay, so acting independently entirely then. I know the IGBC and CSA were both written into the Confederacy right? So they're comfortable backing either the same or different ponies then, whichever.

BTW great explanation Tear. I did want to ask one thing that's been stuck in my head a while though - would CSA basically keep its brand intact and just back the Independents, or was this going to end up being more of a ground-up restructuring? It seemed to make sense that whoever won the ability to influence CSA would keep the brand intact and rule through soft power, though maybe I'm off base here.

[Drin Kizael]

Side note: Drin, the original super weapon idea was presented in SwFans presents (http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20894). With posts here (http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showpost.php?p=340787&postcount=58) and here (http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showpost.php?p=340846&postcount=63) making rough mention of the initial idea which, granted was refined in an MSN conversation. Though you might have been aware of it since you posted between both posts at the top of page 4.
I knew of the superweapon idea. Not sure if it's a fictional weapon to flush out the Rebels or a real one yet, but I knew about it. I just don't recall seeing a link between it and the CSA. It's not important either way now.


Maybe somewhere through the meeting the Independent make their intentions toward CSA clear. Maybe if Drin is one of the Jedi in the envoy he could request to partake in the invasion? Maybe oversee just what the Independents are about? Or he could even go behind CSA lines and try to rally the alien factions who are anti Imperial for when the invasion comes.

I was actually kind of thinking that the Jedi would not be paying much attention to the Indies UNTIL the invas--.

... okay wait, so it IS an invasion? Are you talking about putting on a show of a military campaign even though the CSA really wants to cut ties with the Empire? Or we back to talking about the Indies actually rolling in and conquering them? That changes everything.

If you want the alien factions on your side AGAINST the CSA... that will be tough actually. I misspoke earlier in regards to them. The CSA is more dictatorial in a lot of ways, but they are also a LOT more tolerant of all the many aliens that live in their borders than the Empire is. So there is no open resistance there.

Trian and colony worlds, on the other hand, despise the CSA. They've been at war since at least Palpatine's reign -- there's oddly no date given in any source I can find when exactly they came to blows. I've always kind of assumed they've "always" been at war, like for a generation at least, since the Corporate Sector settling that region of space technically predates Palpatine. The reason behind the animosity is that they tried to invade their colony worlds and turn them into indentured servants.

Getting them to make nice with the CSA would be on par with a peace treaty between Isreal and Palest--- no worse, Iran.

But if you're invading them... then you've got instant allies.

But I thought we were going to leave the CSA with their culture and their autonomy intact when the dust settled so that it can continue to be used as a story setting as they were established? If he Indies are invading them, I'm back to being confused. Trying to invade CSA space would put the Indies into a two-front war. That doesn't make sense.

[Taataani Meorrrei]

It would actually be kind of interesting if the Cizerack leveraged the Trianii into some kind of intensified anti-CSA jihad, to play off your analogy if that's the way this goes.

Then again, I don't know if the Trianii would care for the Cizerack at all either. Maybe they just don't know they're assholes, simpleton savages >D

[Tear]

I did want to ask one thing that's been stuck in my head a while though - would CSA basically keep its brand intact and just back the Independents, or was this going to end up being more of a ground-up restructuring? It seemed to make sense that whoever won the ability to influence CSA would keep the brand intact and rule through soft power, though maybe I'm off base here.

Once the Independents took over I envisioned them basically seizing all Imperial assets in the sector. Any companies that smelled the change in the wind and wanted to play ball would have to pay their dues (Varying dependent on their resistance in the conflict) but other then that? No significant change.

Overall it would be the Corporate Sector Brand name and concept pretty much intact. Its the same but now the Independents have the influence. Basically swapping out Imperial for Independent. There may be changes in policy, obviously, since the Cizerack won't want things to remain the same in terms of how they're treated in trade.

So yes, ruled through soft power. After the dust settles they'll have their representative on the Council of Independents (Like a smaller galactic senate) and be treated/Subject to the Pledge like the other Sectors/Planets within the Independent Confederacy.

---



... okay wait, so it IS an invasion? Are you talking about putting on a show of a military campaign even though the CSA really wants to cut ties with the Empire?

From what's been said It doesn't sound at all like the CSA wants to cut ties with the Empire. Or at least not with armed Imperials still hanging out in their sector.


Or we back to talking about the Indies actually rolling in and conquering them? That changes everything.

Aye, it will be a military campaign. Speaking with Tell Cho previously he said that the alien factions would be too wary of Imperial reprisal to openly rise up against the Empire. And like you mentioned before the Empire won't let go of the CSA unless they're forced, it's simply too valuable. So its logical.

That leaves one alternative. An Invasion by the Independents to remove the Imperials.


Trian and colony worlds, on the other hand, despise the CSA. They've been at war since at least Palpatine's reign -- there's oddly no date given in any source I can find when exactly they came to blows. I've always kind of assumed they've "always" been at war, like for a generation at least, since the Corporate Sector settling that region of space technically predates Palpatine. The reason behind the animosity is that they tried to invade their colony worlds and turn them into indentured servants.

Getting them to make nice with the CSA would be on par with a peace treaty between Isreal and Palest--- no worse, Iran.

But if you're invading them... then you've got instant allies.

That would play nicely in tune with how the Independents operate. Coming in as 'saviors' to oppressed worlds. But I will leave that option up to you Drin.

If the Colony worlds signed up with the Independents that would definitely give the Colonies a more level playing field for dealing with CSA grievances. In the aftermath of the invasion when the CSA surrenders/signs a treaty/however you want to put it. It would create a very rich environment for story telling. The CSA colony worlds and the CSA proper united under one banner but now separate entities and bitter rivals. Many a debate, internal espionage, and possible assassinations could ensue.


But I thought we were going to leave the CSA with their culture and their autonomy intact when the dust settled so that it can continue to be used as a story setting as they were established? If he Indies are invading them, I'm back to being confused. Trying to invade CSA space would put the Indies into a two-front war. That doesn't make sense.

We are still leaving the CSA with their culture. They are still a state controlled by Corporations. Their autonomy will only take a hit in terms of being answerable for their actions. They would be a member of the Independents now.

-If they decide to strip mine Trian, for example, that would be an issue(If Trian was a Independent member world that is). They would be held accountable.

-If they wanted to sell weapons to the Empire. That would be an issue.

-Their policies will be influenced by the Independents just as it was with the Empire. ie: No more screwing the Cizerack in terms of trade.

-Obviously after the Invasion their fleet would be reduced to anti piracy operations. Which is basically how it was written on these boards anyway with the exception that the Empire moved a sector fleet there recently.

So in summary it'll still be the Corporate Sector. It'll just be the Corporate Sector part of the Independent Confederacy. Hope that makes some sense.

As for the two front war thing. That's something for Tear to worry about.;)

[Taataani Meorrrei]

Excellent explanations all around. I think that clears up just about all the stuff I was wondering. Thanks Tear :)

[Amés Falcon Liszt]

Perhaps, to make Drin feel more comfortable, it might be better to consider this the "Liberation" of the CSA from Imperial "occupation".

From a certain point of view, the appointment of Delgado Xaanan (and Imperial) as the Executive Officer, and the provision of Imperial military forces to "bolster" the defensive fleet (the intention of which at the time was to free CSA picket ships to help with anti-piracy and anti-Rebel patrols and escorts along the Hydian Way) could be seen as a back-door route into an occupation. Any of you familiar with the mythos of Deep Space Nine might recall references to the fact that the Cardassians showed up offering aid and protection to the Bajorans, and from there it slowly escallated into a full-on occupation.

The "invasion" of the Corporate Sector is not a means to conquer the CSA. It is a means to undo some of the changes that the Empire has brought about over the last year. We're liberating the CSA from Imperial rulership, and are restoring it's independence. Whether or not deposing Delgado Xaanan leads to an Independent-loyal leader taking his place is of course something that would be roleplayed out in due course, I would think.


Edit / Addendum:

One of the big questions and issues in the long term would be of how the shift in the CSA affects "Imperial" companies, like Kuat Drive Yards and TaggeCo, which have major holdings in those areas. Sienar Fleet Systems (which builts the TIE Fighter) was always nominally independent, but I've always seem Kuat as more of an Imperial-loyal company; which I believe fits with Mara's portrayal of them, her usage of the Kuati Moff as their representative, etc. And of course, the head of TaggeCo is the wife of Miranda Tarkin.

Would it perhaps be worth having the CSA - or perhaps Tear - sieze the assets of companies like KDY and TaggeCo in the CSA, and use them to provide ships and weapons for his military? Perhaps the companies could be carved up and split between various members of the Independents, in a similar way to how Orenstein & Koppel was carved up into various segments and split between the Allies after the conquest of Berlin? There'll be research and development facilities, shipyards, manufacturing plants; it might be interesting to consider those Imperial assets "spoils of war", and divide them out among loyalists like the Cizerack, the Mandalorian loyalists, the CSA, and so forth, as a means to ensure continued loyalty to Tear's regime.

[Drin Kizael]

Oh I'm already comfortable enough with it. Just wanted to make sure I understood what was really happening.

This all hinges on the intel we get after the Coruscant rescue operations, then, right? Otherwise I can't see why the Jedi would want to get involved yet prior to the invasion.

The more I think about it, chances are the level of conflict between the trianii and Espos probably dropped dramatically after Han Solo freed the Rangers that were imprisoned and then blew up the first Stars End (which would have been roughly 15 years ago in the SW-Fans timeline). So the analogy to Israel and Palestine is a bit closer to the reality. More skirmishes than war. Trianii are peaceful, but fiercely independent.

If the Independent Confederation (is that their official name?) can convince the Jedi and the Alliance that they aren't just backing one Empire to replace another... then we can roll. Assuming the rest of the Jedi council agrees, and if we can get the players of Alliance leadership characters to make a cameo. I'd have to find out who plays Celeste Starborn, but I'm guessing we can get the support of Torrsk Oruo'rel.

Technically the Jedi don't need Alliance approval, but they are supplying and defending the Wheel, so we'd want their support.

And if all else fails, Drin goes alone because if he knows what's happening, there's no way he could sit on the sidelines.

[Taataani Meorrrei]

I am loving these ideas. Putting the Jedi into a murky tripartite war is awesome

[Torrsk Oruo'rel]

Edited for brevity / clarity:

I'm utterly confused by the non-sequitur logic that seems to have just happened.

The Trianii hate the CSA. Tear only wants to remove the Imperials from the equation, so that the CSA doesn't have a metaphorical gun to it's head, and will agree to "defect". Why will the Trianii want anything to do with this? Surely, these actions are only going to alienate them from the Independents further. We're effectively liberating the Corporate Sector after all, and then leaving them to their own devices: surely that's some negative points for the Independents there?

Also, I'm a little confused at which point this turned into a major military campaign. It was my understanding that there is only a modest force of Imperials in place in the Corporate Sector. The original plan, as I understood it, was that both Tear and Karl want the supership that's being built in the Corporate Sector, and in order to secure it for himself, Tear makes a military incursion. That sparks a conflict with the Imperial forces, which he ultimately wins through overwhelming numbers, and then hurray, the Corporate Sector is liberated.

I don't get how, in a situation with that degree of urgency, there's even time for alliances with the Trianii, or participation from the Jedi and Rebels (unless they're going after the weapon, something completely unrelated to the liberation).

In the aftermath of the conquest, having Drin and some Rebels show up to investigate what the hell just went down, sure. That seems logical. I don't get how we've suddenly manifested a "murky tripartite war" out of this.

Did the Imperial forces suddenly grow beyond a piddly little Sector fleet?

Edit:

Or are we talking about doing a bit of backstory, and saying that Tear already had plans for an invasion in place, which he simply accelerated? That might make sense with the Trianii thing, but I'm still confused as to how the Jedi / Rebels are brought into the invasion force simply through finding out about the superweapon.

[Drin Kizael]

Edit note: This was started response to Cap's original post, not the edit I see he just made before posting this...


...But ultimately, we're liberating the Corporate Sector from Imperial control. Surely that benefits the CSA, and thus the Trianii would want absolutely nothing to do with it?
Because with the Independents in charge, the CSA policy of continuing to try and take over the Trianii colonies would end. They would finally get to just live in peace, like they did before those greedy bastards showed up. :D


Also, I don't see where the intelligence from Coruscant factors in (directly), either.
If Karl or Tear already know about this weapon, that's one thing. But the Jedi know absolutely nothing about it yet. Without that link, there's no reason why the Jedi would be paying much attention to the politics in that quadrant of space given their current state.

But if a conflict breaks out in CSA space, then that's another way to get us in... or at least just Kizael.


...I just don't understand why the Rebellion is suddenly involved in an Independents versus Imperials battle,

Because my whole point from the beginning was that any battle over CSA space would NOT be just a simple single-battle fleet-on-fleet thread. You'd be fighting the Imperial presence in that region + The Espo Picket Fleet + the Imperial reinforcements they'd send because there's no way in hell the Empire will roll over and give up the trillions of credits that roll out of there.

I now get the impression that Tear sees it that way, too. Such an event would be a huge flashpoint that would have repercussions for the whole galactic civil war. It would be the kind of thing that might get the Alliance and the Indies to finally meet. I would think the Indies would welcome the help, even if they didn't plan on seeking it out themselves.

Or maybe when they do meet, no one can get along and the Indies go ahead without the Rebels or the Jedi. I don't know. But it's worth playing out. Having everyone sit by idly and just let those two duke it out would not make sense at all. Not to mention a waste of great RP potential.

I'm not suggesting the Rebel Alliance would automatically want to get all on board with the battle. In fact they might not. But the former Trianii Ranger on the Jedi Council is going to make it an issue for them to think about. He won't want to just run off without their support, though, or at least trying to get it first, if only to insure their continued support for The Wheel.

Maybe they say they don't have the resources to send fleet support, but they just offer political support. If they say no completely, then that could create some interesting tension, too, but we'll deal with that only if we have to. Regardless, it would make no sense for the Alliance to not care about the development at all.

[Captain Untouchable]

Because with the Independents in charge, the CSA policy of continuing to try and take over the Trianii colonies would end. They would finally get to just live in peace, like they did before those greedy bastards showed up. :D

Fair enough. In that case, it might make sense for Tear to have established an alliance with the Trianii before the invasion starts, while he's still laying the groundwork for it. Perhaps the Trianii become members of the Independents, and it's their desire to have the aggression ended, combined with Cizerack pressure, combined with the superweapon, that ultimately pushes Tear into action.


If Karl or Tear already know about this weapon, that's one thing. But the Jedi know absolutely nothing about it yet. Without that link, there's no reason why the Jedi would be paying much attention to the politics in that quadrant of space given their current state.

But if a conflict breaks out in CSA space, then that's another way to get us in... or at least just Kizael.

I don't understand where the need for Rebel involvement has sprung from, is all. If it's a long-scale conflict, then perhaps. However, I'm not comfortable with that.


Because my whole point from the beginning was that any battle over CSA space would NOT be just a simple single-battle fleet-on-fleet thread. You'd be fighting the Imperial presence in that region + The Espo Picket Fleet + the Imperial reinforcements they'd send because there's no way in hell the Empire will roll over and give up the trillions of credits that roll out of there.

Where are these Imperial reinforcements coming from? How are they getting there? Tear has a dozen or so sectors and their militaries standing between the nearest Imperial reinforcements and the Corporate Sector. Also, I believe you're overestimating the kind of Imperial forces that are in the Corporate Sector: we're looking at twenty-five Star Destroyers, at most.

A long-haul campaign just doesn't seem plausible, given the Corporate Sector situation that Tell Cho and I laid all the groundwork for. As has been stated by Tear, the CSA just needs us to a) eliminate the current Imperials, and b) demonstrate that there won't be any reinforcements coming.

Don't forget, this is just one sector out of dozens that the Empire has lost to Tear. Maybe they'll try and recapture the Corporate Sector in the long run - maybe as part of the supership arc? - but I can't see where these reinforcements you speak of are supposed to be coming from.


A quick and dirty fight doesn't fit with your perception of the Corporate Sector. A long and protracted war doesn't fit with the vision of Tell Cho and myself. What's the compromise option?

[Drin Kizael]

Fair enough. In that case, it might make sense for Tear to have established an alliance with the Trianii before the invasion starts, while he's still laying the groundwork for it.
That is my understanding so far, yes. If not in planning stage, then very early on in the campaign, depending on how it plays out.


I don't understand where the need for Rebel involvement has sprung from, is all. If it's a long-scale conflict, then perhaps. However, I'm not comfortable with that.
And that is a possibility. But Kizael would try to get Alliance support anyway. They have been supplying and protecting the Wheel. So it would be bad form to just run off and do something like this without at least keeping them in the loop. How they react is up to them.


A long-haul campaign just doesn't seem plausible, given the Corporate Sector situation that Tell Cho and I laid all the groundwork for.
And yet, that is what I am saying realistically would happen. It wouldn't be Ceto's problem though. It'll be Tear's, as he acknowledged in the above reply when he said "Let me worry about that." Invading the CSA will escalate the war in a huge way. This is not a cut and dried thing he's doing here. He realizes this. If the Rebels offered to help, I would think Tear would consider taking it. But if they don't, which it sounds like Torrsk's vote will be... then they carry on without the Rebels. No one is making them do anything. So unless other high ranking Rebel players express interest, they won't be involved.

[Captain Untouchable]

Well, what I'm saying realistically would happen is that the Independents would crush the minimal Imperial presence in the sector with ease.

We are thus at an impass. Hence my question: "What is the compromise option?"

[Dasquian Belargic]

So unless other high ranking Rebel players express interest, they won't be involved.

If Tear would like to have the Rebels involved in his campaign, he can contact the Rebels OOC and organise their involvement :)

[Miranda Tarkin]

Before anything happens to TaggeCO - Jenny needs to be involved. That is her baby and wouldn't be right for the corporation to be dissolved with her say so. And for the record, Miranda's 'wife' is her husband by the name of Gallus XD

Secondly, the Empire never took over CSA - we have a treaty and provide support of course but we didn't just take over the place :p

Friendly yes, carved out the CSA space no. Miranda was not so bold and followed Palpatine's lead because they are a wonderful resource. Gallus having business relationship with them have allowed for more holonet access and lenience.

So I hope that clarifies it. CSA was never truly Imperial Space.

[Dasquian Belargic]

TaggeCo base of operations is Tepasi, in the Core worlds. They also have Pallaxides, in the Outer Rim - but ultimately the corperation is galaxy-spanning. Canonically, it's a ubiquitous business and it would ultimately survive being removed from CSA space. I won't be passing any of its assets over to the Independents :)

[Drin Kizael]

Well, what I'm saying realistically would happen is that the Independents would crush the minimal Imperial presence in the sector with ease.

We are thus at an impass. Hence my question: "What is the compromise option?"
Not long ago you made a very big deal out of making sure we all knew that you had nothing to do with this plot, man. It was Tear's plan. So -- in response to Tear's post and invitation for ideas -- I'm just suggesting ways in which we could make it a lot more fun and interesting than the wham bam yay we win thread that you're describing. Charley seemed to think it all sounded good. Tear seemed receptive in his reply. So let's wait for him to reply.


If Tear would like to have the Rebels involved in his campaign, he can contact the Rebels OOC and organise their involvement

Tear may not have thought of it before, but when I made the suggestion earlier, he seemed pretty receptive to the possibility. If no one wants to follow up on the suggestion, I don't care. I'm just offering ideas.

[Captain Untouchable]

Well, we did sorta engineer having one of our boys put in charge, and then sent him some ships to help "defend the sector". Not overtly taking over, but still... *shrug*

And no one is disbanding TaggeCo. They're just loosing the opportunity to have a few factories in the Corporate Sector. The CS offers tax breaks that makes it cheaper for them to run industry out of there... Tio and I have been spinning ideas for a possible storyline that would see the Imperials find somewhere else to be their tax break sector. :)

[Dasquian Belargic]

If you have a problem with another poster, sort it out off the board.

This thread is not being further hijacked.

[Drin Kizael]

There's a lot that's been said, and since Tear can't be online as much as we are, let's wait for him to respond now, please.

Regarding the individual corporations that make up the CSA... Any of them can bail on that sector of space to avoid losing their ties to the Empire. In fact... i would not be surprised if more of them do just that, not just TaggeCo.

[Tear]

There are so many points and counter points flying around in this thread now but I'm going to do my mother effin' best to respond to all of them. Ninja posts permitting of course.

Invasion plans.
- Tear has always had his sights set on the CSA. My explanation of the OOC talks with Tell Cho was just to give weight on why it had to be a military conflict.

- The flash point of the Invasion was adjusted to coincide with the Serena/Superweapon story line.

- Trianii involvement. You guys both make good points for them joining or at least aiding the Independents. With the Independents in charge of the CSA take over the Trianii would get what they want. It make sense this would have happened before the Invasion as well.

Length of the Campaign. This is obviously a point of contention between whats established on the boards and whats written in the EU. Like I stated before I tend to favor whats been written on the boards over EU.

The obvious first battle, and a major one at that, would involve the Serena/Superweapon story plot. That could for all intents and purposes break the back of the Imperial forces in the area. They would then have to make a choice:

- Leave with the superweapon and make sure it's escorted safely back into friendly territory. (Which could be an order from the higher ups to make sure the Superweapon is returned.)

Or

- Fall back and regroup somewhere else within the Corporate sector to continue a resistance. Its a toss up really. But in terms of tactics one action looks more favorable then the other.

Staying to continue the resistance.

Pros:
- They would effectively keep the sector from functioning for the Independent war effort. ie, using the sectors shipyards and resources. At least for a little while. Weeks, Months?
- They would keep the alien factions from fully defecting since Imperials are still in the area. Therefore it would stall the CSA from joining the Independents.
- Keeps another front open for the Independents.

Cons:
- They are surrounded.
- The Independents would out number them. Especially with the help of the Trianii and Cizerack.
- The Empire could inevitably lose all the ships and personnel resisting. Ships and people (trained ones) are expensive.
- Little chance of reinforcements.

Reinforcements issues: Like Jace mentioned there are three other theaters of war. All of which have tactically better outcomes then sending ships to the furthest points of the Outer Rim. If they lose the CSA it is, and I fully agree here, a devastating blow to the Empire.

But, tactically, keeping a handle on the other three main theaters are probably a more crucial concern because of their locations (Close to the core and Colony worlds). Not to mention reinforcing the these fronts would be easier/quicker and they won't be in such a bad spot, ie surrounded..

- Perhaps a compromise between the two ideas though. I'll introduce that after covering the Rebel involvement.

Rebel Involvement.

The initial arrival of the Independent is a sweeping change to the galaxy as a whole. They are a scale tipper away from the Galactic Empire. I find it curious that with such a like minded force working toward the same goals as the Rebels, they wouldn't at least send some sort of diplomatic envoy to gauge their intentions.

The Jedi are renown diplomats at least in the days of the Republic. It might be logical that the Rebels, since they spend resources protecting the Jedi, would call in a favor and send a few with the envoy to help out. The Jedi could be undercover and in full Rebel garb as to not out themselves drastically.

This meeting initially has nothing to do with the CSA. It's simply a diplomatic encounter between the two groups. Then eventually Tear lets his intentions toward the Corporate Sector be known. It won't be a request of assistance or anything like that. He'll just basically say, "The Imperials are building a superweapon in the Corporate Sector. Consider this a professional courtesy if you have people in the area they might want to duck." The rest of the thread can play out naturally but if Drin is one of the accompanying Jedi he could take a personal interest.

There would be two points to this thread.
1. It gives The Rebellion/Jedi a fun encounter with the Independents and opens an avenue for them to work together in the future.
2. It gives Drin a way to involve himself into the CSA shenanigans.

- Anyway. This, in note form, could be how the arc goes down.

1 - Tear already has plans for the CSA. Those plans intensify with pressure from the Cizerack after they join the Independents.

2 - Realizing there could be more support in the CSA region Tear visits the Trianii and enlists their help or gives them membership to the Independents.

3 - Time passes. The Independents announce themselves. Mandalore, Fondor, Bastion occur. Blockades are setup. the CSA is cut off.

4 - The Serena plot. Tear learns that the Inquisitoriate have discovered the construction of the super ship in the Corporate Sector.

5 - Meeting between the Rebellion/Jedi and the Independents occur. Tear gives the Rebellion information regarding a secret superweapon being built by the 'Imperials' in the CSA. Tear makes his intentions toward the Corporate sector known.

6 - The Independent invasion of the CSA occurs. The battle for the supership unfolds and the Imperials, escape with the weapon.

7 - The Compromise. Continuing some form of Imperial resistance in the Corporate sector. This could involve any Imperials who get left behind falling back to say, the CSA Capital of Etti IV and entrenching themselves in.

My main concern with #7 is dragging out a lengthy series of threads involving the CSA invasion. I don't know how much interest there is and would there be enough to carry it to completion? Combat based threads have a notoriously bad habit of fizzling out.

This is an open question to people who wish to get involved in the CSA and its invasion. Could we get a show of hands on who is interested in participating in series of threads continuing this campaign after the initial battle?

[Dasquian Belargic]

Great summary of the arc, Tear. That definitely helps to explain what is quite a complex, far reaching plot :)

I'm not sure who I would be best to get involved with. In the long run, I expect it would be Dasquian as a representative of the Rebellion - but since I don't think he will be finding his way home before the meeting between the Indies and the Jedi occurs (unless this is a way down the line) maybe I could offer a Jedi up.

[Drin Kizael]

We've definitely been on the same page with this, Tear. I didn't really blink till toward the end.


3 - Time passes. The Independents announce themselves. Mandalore, Fondor, Bastion occur. Blockades are setup. the CSA is cut off.


If the blockades are set up BEFORE the Serena plot, then that was an act of war and the ball would already be rolling.

Perhaps you are just moving your ships into position. They are ready to close in on the Hydian Way to set up the blockades when the order falls down. But for "now" (pre-Serena rescue), maybe you are maintaining the illusion to the Empire that the traffic lane is still open through your space to the CSA. Your defense grid is on alert for Imp traffic coming into realspace anywhere in your territory, but you are not getting in their way yet if they are just passing through.

Because the moment one of their ships is stopped by an interdictor... it's on.


7 - The Compromise. Continuing some form of Imperial resistance in the Corporate sector. This could involve any Imperials who get left behind falling back to say, the CSA Capital of Etti IV and entrenching themselves in.

My main concern with #7 is dragging out a lengthy series of threads involving the CSA invasion. I don't know how much interest there is and would there be enough to carry it to completion? Combat based threads have a notoriously bad habit of fizzling out.
Well the invasion itself can go swiftly. It's easy to explain the reduction in fleet after Palpatine's death -- err, I mean murder at the hand of those Rebel scum. Perhaps in the time between Emprorers, before Miranda stepped in, the bureaucracy pulled so much of the CSA's support that they made the area more vulnerable.

It actually seems like only 3 threads...

1. Indies approach the Alliance -- all political,
2. Indies vs Picket Fleet and Imp SDs-- mostly fleet stuff,
3. Cizerack/Trianii vs Espos -- mixed fleet and surface combat.

Thread 3 might be split into two parts, for negotiations and then the battle, but not necessarily.

Any drawn out conflict can then be done in isolated threads after the fact.

It doesn't even have to be just Imp resistance. Maybe loyalist Espos employed by one of the former voting board members that won't sign the treaty. Then there's the part where TaggeCo, and possibly others try to get out before the area is locked down. Those kinds of things can be going on indefinitely without stalling the main plot.

[Ceto Rübezahl]

Well the invasion itself can go swiftly. It's easy to explain the reduction in fleet after Palpatine's death -- err, I mean murder at the hand of those Rebel scum. Perhaps in the time between Emprorers, before Miranda stepped in, the bureaucracy pulled so much of the CSA's support that they made the area more vulnerable.

Something related to this issue has previously been established on Fans.

For an unspecified amount of time, the Corporate Sector has been fending for itself, with no military support from the Empire. Following her coronation, Miranda Tarkin engineered the election of an Imperial to the position of Exec of the Direx Board, and agreed to provide a moderate sector force to bolster the Espos.

This force consists of no more than 25 Star Destroyers (a fairly standard sector fleet): most likely older and more outdated designs, rather than the Navy's finest. It was a political gesture, not a tactical one.

[Drin Kizael]

Well there you go then. And their own Picket Fleet that they had maintained could have just fallen into disrepair. After the Solo incident, they dumped an obscene amount of money into the new Stars End. Then when Palpatine's accounts dried up, they couldn't keep their own fleet up to spec anymore. I'd buy that.

[Ceto Rübezahl]

According to Tell Cho's wishes, the CSA fleet wasn't in disrepair; it just wasn't Imperial. He / we approached the political status of the Corporate Sector in a similar manner to the Bothawui Sector, to an extent: more of a "vassal" than a subjugated sector. I believe at the time we drew comparisons with Rome and Egypt: the installation of Delgado Xaanan as Exec was akin to the arrival of Mark Anthony, to an extent, though alas we never got around to expanding that parallel further.

That situation didn't necessarily come into being as a result of Endor: you mentioned yourself that the novelised events occurred a decade or so ago, so there is pleanty of time for policies to shift, and there are numerous events that might have triggered it. It might, for example, make sense to trace this status back as far as Yavin: have it as a reaction to the dissolution of the Senate, the empowerment of the Moffs, the destruction of Alderaan, etc.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Its important to remember that what has been RPed on the boards trumps whatever is in the EU - we diverged from the EU and OT timeline at Endor. So what Tell Cho and Tear have already RPed is canon now.

[Miranda Tarkin]

LD - the Solo incident, as Drin said, happened prior to what is happening. Of course what is RP here trumps canon, but there is nothing wrong with it making sense with what is happening now with what has happened in the EU canon past ;)

[Drin Kizael]

Whatever happened that got rid of the Picket Fleet so that the only defense is just 25 SDs happened off panel. Minor detail. It's all good.

[Bette Davis]

LD - the Solo incident, as Drin said, happened prior to what is happening. Of course what is RP here trumps canon, but there is nothing wrong with it making sense with what is happening now with what has happened in the EU canon past ;)
No I know that, I read the books too. :mneh I just wanted to say that people who have been here for the past few years and RPing this story arc into existence while others, perhaps, were not around... what they've put down is now our canon.

Of course everyone can tweak and nitpick Tear's existing plot as much as they want, and they are and everything is copacetic right now, I just know that excessive nitpicking can lead to huge arguments and in the end I just want everyone to get along. :ohno

Leaving now! Someone PM me and let me know what Serena Laran is supposed to know about the superweapon, 'cause it wasn't ever made clear to me what was decided on that. *exists thread*

[Tear]

If the blockades are set up BEFORE the Serena plot, then that was an act of war and the ball would already be rolling.

Because the moment one of their ships is stopped by an interdictor... it's on.

That's basically how it goes down. It's supposed to be sudden, and shocking surprise for the Empire. Fondor is taken completely by surprise when Imperial ships suddenly turn their weapons on their comrades and open fire. Bastion drops off the grid as all communications in the sector are jammed (for both sides), it turns into utter chaos. Mandalore offers the only real explanation, as Tear announces a confederation of planets fighting for freedom blah blah etc.

It would be the same thing on the Hydian way.

"Oh Imperial Interdictor stopped us. Funny, hail them and lets get this show on the road. They must be patrolling for Rebels.

"Hailing them no- wait they're locking weapons."

"What?" Poof.

It would be confusion for a good few weeks after Mandalore, Fondor and Bastion occurs. The Independents announce themselves but they don't exactly give the Imperials a road map to what territories and planets they've taken.

To the Corporate Sector they would have a fleet of Imperial warships blockading their entry to the Hydian way. I'm sure the first step the CSA would take is to try and find answers from Delgado. Then Delgado would try to contact Imperial command to figure out whats going on. To which he would probably get, "Call back later. We don't know yet."

Which would leave them with options:

- Sit tight and wait for some solid intelligence reports from Imperial command.
- Launch an assault on the blockading fleet. Which is totally viable, but a somewhat scary proposition if they don't have a solid idea of just who they're fighting. Imperial warlords? How many? Which sectors are involved? Our sector? Who are they allied with? Are they involved with the Rebellion? etc.

It would appear somewhat ominous as reports of the Empire losing contact with Bastion, losing Fondor, and getting into a grueling ongoing battle at Mandalore start rolling in over the holonet.



It actually seems like only 3 threads...

1. Indies approach the Alliance -- all political,
2. Indies vs Picket Fleet and Imp SDs-- mostly fleet stuff,
3. Cizerack/Trianii vs Espos -- mixed fleet and surface combat.

Thread 3 might be split into two parts, for negotiations and then the battle, but not necessarily.

Any drawn out conflict can then be done in isolated threads after the fact.

It doesn't even have to be just Imp resistance. Maybe loyalist Espos employed by one of the former voting board members that won't sign the treaty. Then there's the part where TaggeCo, and possibly others try to get out before the area is locked down. Those kinds of things can be going on indefinitely without stalling the main plot.

Groovy. Three threads Works for me. #3 Sounds like a good 'aftermath' type thread. Where conflicts can continue or people can tie up loose ends. The people who want to participate in that thread can continue while those that want to end their involvement after the initial battle can.

I am, however, a little bit leery of this:


Any drawn out conflict can then be done in isolated threads after the fact.

I could see isolated threads where the Cizerack and Trianii sit down and have chats. Or brief 'short story' type threads set in the time frame where the Independents are concluding their invasion of the CSA. This gives people who want to elaborate on other stories that take place in CSA space the chance to write them.

But the ultimately the conclusion is that the CSA is invaded successfully and that conclusion is spelled out during the climax in the #2 thread.

So in terms of standard plot.

Introduction and Rising Action - Thread #1: Diplomatic threads involving the Cizerack and the Rebels.

Climax - Thread #2: Independent Invasion of CSA space and attempt to secure Imperial super weapon. The Corporate sector is successfully invaded but the Imperials manage to escape with the weapon.

Falling Action and Conclusion - Thread #3: Fallout resistance occurs between Espos and Cizerack/Trianii. Any Corporate Sector folks could post regarding the fall of the sector and how that may effect them. ie: TaggeCo, Kuat Shipyards, etc. Treaties are signed, CSA inducted as member of the Independents.

[Drin Kizael]

Too much to quote, so...

I get that the blockade is sudden. But I meant that it needs to start after the Serena plot in the timeline, otherwise the invasion already happened before you approach the Alliance.

About the ongoing skirmishes after the invasion ... why not? I mean, they are completely optional, but why not leave the option open? There could could still be some hold out corporation with their own Espo unit that causes trouble for the new leadership. Or there could very easily be a fringe world or two that doesn't go down as easily. That's just subplot material if people like.

And as Miranda pointed out, there should be room in a thread or a few posts within one of those threads for people scrambling to get out, like TaggeCo. That could happen "off-screen", too, but if it were played out, it wouldn't even require Tear or Karl or Ceto's participation.

Not a requirement, but those kinds of plots would not interfere with the ExO signing the treaty and turning over the Authority's resources to the IWC.

PS: I keep making up names for them because just "Independents" sounds like a nickname, not a formal government body.

[A'na Eldhil]

I think the problem may be that you're considering 'the Serena Plot' to be something humongous and separate, but in reality it could be taking place at the same time as the blockades are going up. Right? I mean, all the Jedi research into where she is could be going on while Tear's dropping the hammer on the CSA, and the rescue only takes up like half a day of in game time.

I don't know why the invasion can't begin before Tear contacts the Alliance, I guess.

[Tear]

But I meant that it needs to start after the Serena plot in the timeline, otherwise the invasion already happened before you approach the Alliance.

It doesn't and it won't for reasons I listed above. Fondor, Mandalore and Bastion occur. Blockades are setup. Sometime later (There's no specific time set yet, if its a week or month it hasn't been decided yet) the invasion of the CSA occurs.

Between Fondor/M/Bastion and the invasion of the CSA happening the Rebellion and the Independents can have their diplomatic parley.



About the ongoing skirmishes after the invasion ... why not? I mean, they are completely optional, but why not leave the option open? There could could still be some hold out corporation with their own Espo unit that causes trouble for the new leadership. Or there could very easily be a fringe world or two that doesn't go down as easily. That's just subplot material if people like.

And as Miranda pointed out, there should be room in a thread or a few posts within one of those threads for people scrambling to get out, like TaggeCo. That could happen "off-screen", too, but if it were played out, it wouldn't even require Tear or Karl or Ceto's participation.

I never said nay to the idea ole chum. I just said I was wary of it and reaffirmed the main arc should start and end within the 3 threads proposed.


PS: I keep making up names for them because just "Independents" sounds like a nickname, not a formal government body.

I originally called them that in homage to the Independents in the Firefly (http://www.fireflywiki.org/Firefly/Independents) series. Plus it was a funny nod of appreciation to another writer named Hera, who wrote with me. I never decided on a accompanying title like commonwealth, confederacy, coalition, etc. I tried leaning away from Confederacy (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Confederacy_of_Independent_Systems) for obvious reasons but its becoming the most used tag and the parallels are right there.

[Drin Kizael]

It doesn't and it won't for reasons I listed above. Fondor, Mandalore and Bastion occur. Blockades are setup. Sometime later (There's no specific time set yet, if its a week or month it hasn't been decided yet) the invasion of the CSA occurs.
The continuity of this is confusing, but okay. You used future and present tense in your earlier posts for stuff that happened already. How much of this needs to be RP'd yet? I thought the initial actions that formed the Independents was already played out, and you already did announce yourselves in a thread somewhere.

In either case, then when the Jedi launch their rescue op, it's already news all over the galaxy that this new Independent (I'd suggest Coalition out of that list you made) is blockading CSA space. IOW, you're already at war when you contact the Alliance. That's a little different then I thought before, but okay. Sure.

LD... if the invasion is launched before Tear contacts the Alliance, then we missed the whole thing and this whole thread is moot. :) I think the point is to tell the Alliance first because of the superweapon intel. They want the help before they go in, if they can get it.

Yes?

Of course, this assumes the Rebels and/or Jedi agree... which so far is not a given. For all we know this will be Kizael going alone if no one else speaks up.

Well... do we need to wait till the rescue op threads are done to see what comes of them? If not, let's just start this bad boy.

Edit- I was really only hoping it started after the rescue op because I want Drin to get his own frickin lightsaber. ;) I really wrote myself into a corner. It could be happening concurrently, I guess. I need a couple weeks in game time after the rescue op for to set the thread where he gets it.

[Charley]

Man just have Drin ebay for a lightsaber at this point lol!

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Yeah, or you could just do an RP where he goes for his lightsaber, and have it set before the Rescue at Coruscant series of threads. Its not rocket science. ;)

[Charley]

delete this lol

[Ceto Rübezahl]

Couple of thoughts that came to me this morning -

What if we stood the Rebel-Independents situation on it's head? As it stands, Tear is initating contact, and letting the Rebels know about the supership. From his perspective, that's risky: the Rebels will no doubt want to just blow it up, whereas he wants the thing for himself.

We could easily reverse the situation. Having found out about the supership in the Serena arc, the Rebel Alliance scrambles to respond, but doesn't have the forces available to mount the kind of incursion into the Corporate Sector that would be necessary. Their only option is to approach the newly emerged Independents, and request their assistance in thwarting a common enemy. Tear can either reveal that he knows about the ship (and try to win brownie points by claiming it as one of his main reasons for a planned Corporate Sector invasion), or he can choose to play dumb on the issue; either works.

As a member of the Serena mission, Drin could be part of the Rebel envoy.

The urgency also answers another concern of mine: if the Sector is already completely blockaded, how does Karl get there? If we look at this map (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090911072224/starwars/images/4/4b/Outer_Rim_Sectors.jpg) for reference, the Trianii have the northern border secure, and the Hydian Way comes in from the west. What if Tear is massing his forces at Cadomai (or somewhere similar) for his own invasion, and the Rebels pledge fleet reinforcements from Mon Calamari, to the south?

Because of the rush and urgency, that "back door" to the south can be left sufficiently open for Karl to get in, and to escape through with the ship afterwards, without having to carve his way through an entire fleet. The Rebels can then show up after he's left, to close off that border and complete the blockade. With the blockade established, the Imperials within the sector mostly routed, and the possibility of Imperial reinforcements almost nonexistant, the CSA feels safe and secure enough to switch it's alligence to the Independents.


Hopefully that satisfies everything that people want to accomplish, while also satisfying a few of the lingering questions. Personally, I'm a little bit uncomfortable with the notion that, after finding out about an Imperial superweapon, we're going to wait around a few weeks / months to actually do anything about it. The last thing we want is another Endor, etc.

[Tear]

You used future and present tense in your earlier posts for stuff that happened already. How much of this needs to be RP'd yet? I thought the initial actions that formed the Independents was already played out,

Lets see here. Mandalore is the primary event, since Tear does a galaxy wide announcement, but it hasn't been Rp'd out yet. The battle and drama take place in the thread: The Red Door (http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20155). The Part where Tear actually leaves with his fleet to Mandalore and does the we're here speech, hasn't been written out yet.

Other battles have since been referenced and alluded to in the Holonet news. (http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20197) Which will continue to be expanded when I have the time to write.:lol

So in terms of Serena's rescue plot. The independent are already an active presence in the galaxy. Theres battles raging in Bastion and Mandalore, with blockades on the Hydian way but the CSA hasn't been invaded yet.


and you already did announce yourselves in a thread somewhere.

Maybe OOC, or IC to the Cizerack but not to the galaxy proper. The annoucement happens when Mandalore does.



LD... if the invasion is launched before Tear contacts the Alliance, then we missed the whole thing and this whole thread is moot. :) I think the point is to tell the Alliance first because of the superweapon intel. They want the help before they go in, if they can get it.

The CSA won't be invaded until the Indies talk with the Rebellion.

Mandalore/Bastion/Fondor/Blockades occur initially. The Indies announce themselves.

Time passes. How much? Who knows? But enough for the Serena plot (Rescue and superweapon information leak to the Inquisitors) and the Rebellion diplomatic encounter to take place. Maybe Drin can get his saber during this time too.

CSA invasion happens after.

Edit: Ninja posted by Jace! Hehe

[Charley]

How much time passes between the Cizerack union and the opening assaults? I'm hoping there's enough time to justifiably expect that at least a couple of the Feessaarro Star Destroyers can be built. Yes/no?

[Tear]

How much time passes between the Cizerack union and the opening assaults? I'm hoping there's enough time to justifiably expect that at least a couple of the Feessaarro Star Destroyers can be built. Yes/no?

Well we never came up with a solid spot in time. I just had it stated that it was before the initial boom. So we could feasibly go back a couple years before Miranda's is coronation.

[Charley]

I'm fine with that :) I don't have any real timeline conflicts in the pride to explain it that way. Just wanted to make sure the Independents have some amount of the hybrid ships in play.

[Drin Kizael]

Time passes. How much? Who knows? But enough for the Serena plot (Rescue and superweapon information leak to the Inquisitors) and the Rebellion diplomatic encounter to take place. Maybe Drin can get his saber during this time too.

CSA invasion happens after.

All good, and all as I figured. Just let me know when and where, ideally by PM, when this starts.

Order of events from my perspective...

1. News of Independent Coalition blockade reaches Drin off-panel. Nothing he can do about it with so much going on.

2. Rescue operation on Coruscant

3. Crystal hunting thread right after we get back. I was going to wait on this till after the rescue, but with so much going on, I'll maybe just roll it out this weekend some time. I am going to assume that we have not had time to analyze the data yet when the characters set off.

The reason I make such a "big deal" (it's not, it's just funny) about that continuity point is that I've been playing up that there are no crystals to make new lightsabers aboard the Wheel. I need to get them first. I'm running around Coruscant with blasters and a vibrostaff all because Daria asked on an open thread, "Where did you get the crystals?" :lol

4. Independent approach the Alliance about Intel... Again assuming they want in on it. So far I think I'm the only Jedi/Rebel who's expressed RP interest. ... Bueller?

or ... We approach Tear after the Intel is analyzed and we go "Oh shit not again!" What Ceto lined out just now was actually my original thought on how things would play out. Since this part definitely happens after the rescue, and assuming the intel links the weapon to CSA space somehow, that gives us reason to approach the Indies.

Huzzah! :cheers Please tell me we've covered everything now.

[Captain Untouchable]

We just gonna ignore my suggestion, then? :(

[Charley]

I like the idea of a "meet in the middle" like you suggested. Rebels suspect it, approach Independents, who of course know about it, and make for strange bedfellows that way. Does this make any conflicts I can't see, because it seems like it makes for good writing opportunities :)

[Drin Kizael]

We just gonna ignore my suggestion, then? :(

You mean this suggestion... ?



or ... We approach Tear after the Intel is analyzed and we go "Oh shit not again!" What Ceto lined out just now was actually my original thought on how things would play out.

I'm hoping that's what we do actually. It makes more sense and helps the story flow better.

[Captain Untouchable]

We just gonna ignore my suggestion, then? :(

You mean this suggestion... ?

The suggestion about "leaving the back door open" to give Karl a route to escape; all that stuff.

No one responded to it, and subsequent comments simply reaffirmed the original plan. *shrug*

Edit:

I totally didn't see the quote you included. It just didn't register that it was there. >_<

But yeah. The Karl, back door bit, etc.

[Drin Kizael]

I am bumping this so it doens't get lost in the sea of spam over Q/A threads. I'm guessing Tear missed that part of Ceto's question that he mentions above.

[Tear]

Couple of thoughts that came to me this morning -

What if we stood the Rebel-Independents situation on it's head? As it stands, Tear is initating contact, and letting the Rebels know about the supership. From his perspective, that's risky: the Rebels will no doubt want to just blow it up, whereas he wants the thing for himself.

We could easily reverse the situation. Having found out about the supership in the Serena arc, the Rebel Alliance scrambles to respond, but doesn't have the forces available to mount the kind of incursion into the Corporate Sector that would be necessary. Their only option is to approach the newly emerged Independents, and request their assistance in thwarting a common enemy. Tear can either reveal that he knows about the ship (and try to win brownie points by claiming it as one of his main reasons for a planned Corporate Sector invasion), or he can choose to play dumb on the issue; either works.

As a member of the Serena mission, Drin could be part of the Rebel envoy.

The urgency also answers another concern of mine: if the Sector is already completely blockaded, how does Karl get there? If we look at this map (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090911072224/starwars/images/4/4b/Outer_Rim_Sectors.jpg) for reference, the Trianii have the northern border secure, and the Hydian Way comes in from the west. What if Tear is massing his forces at Cadomai (or somewhere similar) for his own invasion, and the Rebels pledge fleet reinforcements from Mon Calamari, to the south?

Because of the rush and urgency, that "back door" to the south can be left sufficiently open for Karl to get in, and to escape through with the ship afterwards, without having to carve his way through an entire fleet. The Rebels can then show up after he's left, to close off that border and complete the blockade. With the blockade established, the Imperials within the sector mostly routed, and the possibility of Imperial reinforcements almost nonexistant, the CSA feels safe and secure enough to switch it's alligence to the Independents.


I dig it. Works for me.


I like the idea of a "meet in the middle" like you suggested. Rebels suspect it, approach Independents, who of course know about it, and make for strange bedfellows that way. Does this make any conflicts I can't see, because it seems like it makes for good writing opportunities :)

Motion carried!

[Drin Kizael]

I like the idea of a "meet in the middle" like you suggested. Rebels suspect it, approach Independents, who of course know about it, and make for strange bedfellows that way. Does this make any conflicts I can't see, because it seems like it makes for good writing opportunities :)

Motion carried!

No conflicts that I would imagine personally. Now we just need to get us some Rebels to make it happen.

Torrsk? Celeste? Grace? I could see them involved. Even Reshmar or Demek Jast are high ranking enough that it could make sense.

[Captain Untouchable]

Adonis Inirial is the Subdirector of Fleet Intelligence. He might be a shrewd candidate to have involved, since he's probably qualified to comment on the kind of fleet forces the Rebels could potentially bring to bare to help with the blockade. That's assuming Grace doesn't want to go herself, of course. He's based at Mon Calamari, so he can quite easily be "with the Rebel forces" moving up from the south, just to provide a character to write those aspects with, if Grace is involved.

Torrsk is available too; he's primarily a SpecForce big-wig, but he's also one of the major military tactician people. We (Sarah, Jenny, and myself) were toying with the idea of having Ms Longstar, the Corellian representative, double up in some sort of Minister of War type capacity. Maybe Torrsk, Celeste, and she would be a good political trio? Sort of a makeshift war cabinet type deal, as it were?

[Grace Van-Derveld]

Oh dear me. Now I know for sure I wouldn't be sent anywhere in regards to this matter. I might as well secede and make a country for myself to proclaim autonomy from my dissenters :p

[Torrsk Oruo'rel]

I thought you might be too busy moping over that Dasuquin predecessor of yours, or whatever his name was. You humans are so sentimental about your attatchments, and you seem to react so poorly to grief; I had hoped we'd be spared the wrath of your foul mood.

:colbert

[Michele Hawkins]

<---- pretend it's Grace. Same face :p

I did not say I wasn't willing. Just that my dealings with the Advisory Council has been frigid at best, and that was before my partner died. Please get the facts straight. I've long been over his death as my current record indicates. For a species that professes an abhorrence to grief, you certainly have a hard to releasing a grudge.

[Torrsk Oruo'rel]

^ An easy fantasy to indulge; I never had much faith in the potential longevity of your service as Director at any rate, so I never properly bothered to learn your name either way.

Also, you mistake my disapproval for a grudge, Madame Director. I merely have minimal faith in your abilities and performance, and if your mediocre record is all you can offer to try and convince me otherwise, I doubt that is likely to change any time soon; particularly given certain rumours that have been passed on by contacts of mine whom are in your employ.

I may be a politician, but I am a soldier first and foremost: I care little for reports and records. Demonstrate to me that I am wrong through actions, not words, and I will gladly admit my error, and amend my attitude accordingly.

*yawn*

Until then, I believe I just spotted an Orryxian, and have the unshakeable urge to chase them. Good day, Miss Vader-Veld. :wofl

[Michele Hawkins]

at this point /end hijack

If you want Rebel Intel involved let me know because me and the Bothan idiot could do this all day IC :p

[Tear]

Who the Rebellion wants to send is totally up to them. So if you want your character involved, Jedi or Rebel, by all means.

Within common sense of course.

[Rossos Atrapes]

Its important to remember that what has been RPed on the boards trumps whatever is in the EU - we diverged from the EU and OT timeline at Endor. So what Tell Cho and Tear have already RPed is canon now.

This post gives me a warm feeling in my tummy. :)

That was a lot of reading to get through; but I did. Tear, Cappy and I have been talking about this now that I'm back, and there's a few ideas about Tell that I'll run by you. Nothing will change what I've read here, but simply to iron out where Tell (and all his baggage) will go in the dorms, so to speak.

[Pierce Tondry]

Not for nothin, but Pierce is available if an "advance scout" *coughcough* is needed.