Character Concept?

[Atton Kira]

If I were to say "Deadpool", many of you would both know exactly what I meant, and also likely groan.

For those of you who don't know, Deadpool is a Marvel Comics character infamous not for his powers, but for his complete lack of respect for the fourth wall. He constantly cracks wise; but he also communicates with the reader through those yellow thought boxes, realises that he's in a comic, and makes all kinds of references and things like that.

I've been looking a lot at how people write; and there are a few characters that are written in first person. As a writing exercise, I'm considering doing the same myself; but to make it a little different, I'm considering bringing in the fourth wall element to it.

What would that entail?

Well, all of the "out of character" references would be strictly within the narrative block. Instead of simply writing in first person and leaving it at that, the narrative would directly address the reader, possibly making reference to stuff that the reader will likely know, but the character shouldn't. He might, for example, identify a Destroyer Droid by asking: You know those annoying-as-hell rolley-polley droids?. He might make some Monty Python esque references like: Look! It's the old man, from post #24!

I'm not sure how far I'll end up taking it... or indeed, if I'll even try at all. Before I proceed any further though, I wanted to see what you guys thought, if you had any advice or concerns, etc.

I'd also be intregued to know why the people who do write in first person chose to do so, and why they chose to do so with those specific characters.

Thanks in advance, y'all! :)

[Akasha Khan]

I almost always write in third person because it's actually more intimate than first - in first person, it's the character telling you the story, meaning the character is choosing what to share and what not to share. You're at the mercy of a potentially unreliable narrator.

I do have one character I was experimenting with in our X-Men continuity - Zero, a cybernetic assassin largely based on Cyborg Ninja from Metal Gear Solid. I wrote him in third person up until his memories and personality began to emerge and assert themselves against the AI that had been controlling his actions.

When his personality surfaced again, I wrote him in first person to emphasize his separate identity. And when he went into Vietnam vet flashback mode, I wrote the imagery in second person - which actually puts you, the reader, in the position of seeing through the character's eyes. Tricky to do without coming off as very fake, but it worked for the dreamlike, chaotic atmosphere I was trying to achieve.

[Tear]

I've toyed with this using Rekoj. I'm still not sure how I feel about it yet. It's a fine line you've got to tread or else you risk jarring the reader or simply coming off as obnoxious.

[Dasquian Belargic]

I think it would be difficult to keep something like this up without, as Tear said, becoming obnoxious. There is no harm in trying it out though, if only for a thread, to see how it works :)

[Atton Kira]

Yeah; the obnoxious / jarring is one of the things that I had reservations about myself. Thanks for the input thus far!

One of the other worries I had was related to the tense. Generally, when you convey the thoughts of a character, it would be in the sense of: Seriously, what is with this guy? However, in terms of making the description of actions and activities easier to comprehend, the past tense is usually used: I curled my hand into a fist, longing to grind the smarmy, smugass smile of his cheap and nasty plastic surgeried face.

If one was conveyed as a thought (in italics), and the latter as the narrative (plain text), that would be fairly regular and routine. But half the point would be to fudge the lines between the two. I might perhaps have followed the above with: Yes, 'surgeried' is a word. Shut the hell up, as a direct fourth wall interaction with the reader, which while not narrative is still in a seemingly dissonant tense to the previous sentence. Any thoughts / suggestions on that front?

Also, I've effectively picked my team before deciding what sport we're playing - I don't know who or what the character is going to be. If there are concerns that it might seem obnoxious and jarring, would a similar personality for the character make sense, just so it's in keeping? :mischief Should it be done instead with a character that lives entirely inside their own head, or whose diologue isn't understood to the casual reader (like a Wookiee)?

[Droo]

I would never discourage you from trying such a thing but personally, I can't abide the idea of breaking the fourth wall in pretty much any creative medium, panto being the only exception. That said, I'd give the character a fair chance when reading him or her, and could end up liking what you do.


If there are concerns that it might seem obnoxious and jarring, would a similar personality for the character make sense, just so it's in keeping? :mischief

I think that would have to be the way to do it, at least in my head, I mean would it make sense to have a character like Navaria Tarkin start addressing the reader or similar?

[Acacius Blade]

As Droo said - by all means try it. But I personally dont see it working in a post-by-post roleplaying environment. It works in other mediums. I like how the Metal Gear Solid games break the fourth wall by pointing out the fact that its a video game. In MGS: Sons of Liberty the Colonel tells you to push the reset button because you've been playing too long. And at one point Raiden asks Snake if he needs any extra weapon magazines - but Snake points to his bandana and just says 'Infinite ammo!' - everyone who's played the first Playstation game knows that if you complete the game by saving Meryl you can start a new game with the bandana that gives unlimited ammo when equipped. It's funny and works in that setup but I think it would be very difficult to do effectively here at 'Fans. When you're sitting in front of the TV playing Metal Gear Solid you don't have an OOC forum to make jokes and comments like that, but we do.

The only time I come even close to breaking the fourth wall is on a very personal level - usually an in-joke between myself and whoever I'm roleplaying with. Droo and I do it still today but not as frequently as we used to. It was always blended into the narrative and only meant for ourselves. If other people were oblivious to the reference, it did not disrupt the flow of things and they weren't missing out on anything vital.

Just because I can't see it working doesn't mean you cannot make it work. I think the main question is: why do it at all? I wouldn't so straight away I'm biased. But thinking of your character - how will it add to him. This is after all a roleplaying forum where we collaboratively tell stories by having our characters interact with and react to one another. If your character breaks the fourth wall and ours do not, then the extra content you're putting in will not go anywhere else other than on the screen, sitting in a void all by itself. We won't respond to it, we won't take anything from it. As such I can't help but feel that you'll be doing it for no reason other than the fact that you can.

[Captain Untouchable]

There are all sorts of reasons I want to try it, and I could probably come up with a really convincing argument for why it'll be a fun writing challenge, why it'll let me get back to the writing style I had a decade ago (being compared to Douglas Adams at the time was somewhat flattering!), and all that jazz.

At the end of the day though... the simple reason is that no one else is doing it. Maybe that's because it won't work.

Or maybe it's just because nobody awesome enough has tried yet. :smokin

[Rhinn Ikthoos]

*Loads his blaster and takes aim*

[Charlotte Tur'enne]

I honesty say give it a try. I think that the character itself, and who or what they are might be the "make or break" point on this. You used a Wookiee as an example and I think that might seriously work. Have it so they normally can't speak in an understandable manner and so you bip in with the breaking of the 4th wall stuff.

My only suggestions would be: unless you'll just be doing the rare sporadic thread with this character...I'd keep the interactions with the reader to a minimum. Like a random occasional treat when it happens rather than, as others have pointed out, something that gets overused to the point it becomes obnoxious.
And... find someway to keep it slightly separate from the narrative. I occasionally will toss in some odd comment in the narrative when I write, usually a random character thought towards what I'm describing at the moment, and I always worry it gets lost even if its in italics. I wouldn't say go so far as to make the line or two that you do it in a different color - that's a bit overkill. Not sure what you could use, but I think you'd come up with a pretty creative solution to this.

[Dasquian Belargic]

If one was conveyed as a thought (in italics), and the latter as the narrative (plain text), that would be fairly regular and routine

That works well. I did that a lot in our WoD roleplays, and even with Daria when I first started her after the reset. I always find writing from the first person is a real challenge though, and I am still surprised that I kept it up in the WoD for as long as I did.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I write Kal Olorin in 1st person. Its the best way to convey how he thinks. And I get to get a lot of funny jabs in at Sasseeri when I do it. ;)

[Adonis Inirial]

If one was conveyed as a thought (in italics), and the latter as the narrative (plain text), that would be fairly regular and routine
That works well. I did that a lot in our WoD roleplays, and even with Daria when I first started her after the reset. I always find writing from the first person is a real challenge though, and I am still surprised that I kept it up in the WoD for as long as I did.

That was me explaining what was "normal", which obviously works, 'cause that's the norm, status quo, etc. You don't do it that way for everyone? Or do you just describe what she's thinking as part of the narrative, rather than having a "voice" in her head?

Kinda defeats the object of the exercise if I just do it the normal way... then it's just a normal character. :\

[Dasquian Belargic]

I was just agree that that is a good way to mix up narrative perspectives, if
you're alternating between first/third :)

I actually used to break the fourth wall, sort of, with Jude in the WoD - but his character had a kind of preternatural perception of the world (because of part of the 'vampire lore' we were roleplaying with), so it made sense that he would have insights that others didn't.

[Vansen Tyree]

So... completely going back on what I just said (:lol), I've been looking at some specific Deadpool examples, just to think about how in principle one could novelise him.

Looking at this (http://teaching.zachwhalen.net/comics/sites/teaching.zachwhalen.net.comics/files/images/DeadpoolBullseye.jpg) one, we've got a blatant fourth wall comment mixed in with an in-character one. Going with Jenny's suggestion, I'd likely place the Issue 16, Greece thought as a thought, in italics, within the narrative; and then say the rest.

Add to that another few chuckle-worthy Deadpool examples, that are sorta the things that inspired me to want to do this character: this (http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/12263/udondp.jpg), this (http://teaching.zachwhalen.net/comics/sites/teaching.zachwhalen.net.comics/files/images/Deadpool%20yellow%20boxes.jpg), [url=http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j294/2006F_U/deadpool2.jpg]

Effectively, the narrative is the comic book pictures; the thoughts are the yellow boxes, and speach is just... speach. I think that makes sense, and will work.


I *think* I have a character concept forming in my mind. After chatting with Sarah, we're thinking he might have to be someone who is cliché cool... perhaps a bit like the zanier stages of John Crichton?

I dunno. I'll post up here once I have something, give y'all a lowdown, and see if anyone wants to help him pop his posting cherry. :smokin

[Lilaena De'Ville]

All this talk about Deadpool really makes me miss ReaperFett

[Droo]

I have to admit, he was the first thing I thought of when I saw the name Deadpool. ReaperFett. :(

/hijack

[Jamo Jakatta]

Oddball*



:(

[Nen Lev'i]

So, I guess, like... here I am.

Imagine the pristine good looks and wisecracking wit of Ryan Reynolds, combined with the energy and mild psychosis of John Crichton, the suaveness and sex appeal of Barney Stinson, and capped off with the sexy beard and muscular buttocks of Jayne Cobb, and you've pretty much got me. Well, you know. You've got me, if I was a bazillion times less awesome.

My name is Nen; yes, I know that it's technically just a letter. A letter, incidentally, which looks kinda like a backwards pi. And if there's one thing I like, it's some tasty backwards pie.

I'm also aware that my surname is a Mando'a word, which apparently means retard. It's not my real name. And no, it's not an 'accurate description', though congratulations for being the umteen-thousandth son of a Sith to come up with that little tidbit of comic genius.

As for what I am; I'm your pretty standard everyman kinda guy, though I do have a particular fondness for flying things and shooting things. And, well, when it comes to the ladies, well - how's I make you do the flying, while I bullseye some womp rats down Beggar's Canyon? ;)

:mischief Know what I'm sayin', huh? *high five*

Right, guys?

...guys?

[Dai]

I like him already. But I would, wouldn't I? :p

[Nen Lev'i]

For those of y'all who want to keep up to tabs with my first person / fourth wall antics, there's <s>a thread</s> two threads that I'm doin' with Dani and Dee here:

Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Hotties (http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21086)
Two in a Million (http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21089)

If people want to use this thread to leave me feedback, I would very much appreciate it. Let me know if my first person rambles are seeming too long; if you think I'm being too chatty with the reader; if the ramblings are taking you away from the story too far; if you're finding the references jarring; or conversely, if you think it's working and I could get away with more; or just have input, etc.

It's an experiment, basically - I'd like as much input and feedback as I can possibly get, so I can tweak, refine, etc as I go. :)

Thanks, y'all!

[Dai]

Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Hotties

Gotta be honest here, I went in knowing I loved it. So, I probably have a bias. That said, I thought it was awesome. The character is obviously there in your head and you have a clear characterization of him. The humor was my kind of humor, so it wasn't at all that jarring, and it flowed.

The things that'd need some tweaking is some of the rambles don't actually have relevancy. (oxymoron??) And its not that they should if you don't want them to, but to get specific there was a good chunk about waking up to a random person. In a way, it had me expecting somebody to be there....and it was just ole Nen walking by himself. Maybe that was the seeked effect, though?

But that's me nitpicking because I'm trying to find something I don't like about to idea to offset how much I like it - ya know - so I don't sound too bias. The only two things I'm waiting to see is how he is written with another character, especially because those rants can be revealing of motives and such. Second, since you aware at how it may come across as too chatty, id say don't worry. I like it. But if you wanna worry, and do something about it, do more of those descriptions like the one of the durasteel floor. They have the balance of offering a visual, and an internal perspective. This is why id like to see how you do with another person in RP, because id expect thoughts to come through that may or may not cross the line...Which is the fun stuff. :)

Either way, keep it up. I have no complaints, really, at all.

Two in a Million

No complaints. What so ever. I think you are finding your lane, a good balance between commentary & writing, and clearly having fun with it.

[Dasquian Belargic]

It's too ramble-y for my tastes, to be honest. A lot of the humour feels like it would work better if it were condensed, but that is just me and my preference for shorter, focused posts I guess. I hope you are having fun with it though :)

[Captain Untouchable]

Too rambly; rambling needs more relevance. Gotcha. Alrighty.

Is the second thread better than the first, Jen, or is it just not workin' for ya in general?