Fleeting

[Vansen Tyree]

Avast! Yarr! Insert appropriate eyepatch-themed greeting! :pirate

Right. Now that's out of the way -

There's been some chit and chatter about fleeting on the boards lately. Of us Rebels, who is interested?

We don't have many Admirals at the moment - though I have just set up character (http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/member.php?u=5008) who looks after "Fleet Intelligence", who'll work as a makeshift one if needs be. However, from the sound of things from chatting to people on AIM (and seeing what the Imps are doing) we might be looking at "skirmish" type fleeting, with smaller groups... which could be quite a good idea, particularly in terms of actually getting stuff finished.

Did that Sullustan Captain ever come to fruition, Kale?

Can we read anything into those Dauntless specs showing up, Charley?

Droo, did you say you had a Rebel fleeter about the place?

Anyone else umm-ing and ahh-ing about fleeting in general? Maybe you want to give it a go, but are put off by the 'bean counting', the idea of having to keep tabs on oodles of ships, etc? Would you like to try something 'small', and see how you get on with it?


Current (Active) Fleeters
* General Dan the Man
** Captain Soto Terius
** Captain Dou'lesa Grov
** Captain Rhinn Ikthoos
* General Sumor Ruiyal

[General Dan]

I am starving to give Dan some action. So yes, it goes without saying I'd love to have him scheme up a bit of a light campaign against the enemy.

It would be interesting too, if this works into future, darker things. Dan may need an assurance of loyalty in case some kind of emergency happens.

[Tarrick Ragnus]

I am actually toying with the idea of doing a Rebel Fleeter. What do you need?

[Captain Untouchable]

Based on the chatting and scheming that Charley and I were doing last night, we're thinking of organising a "Task Force" within the Fourth Fleet (that's the fleet based out of Sullust), under General Dan's command.

Mostly, we'd be focussing on operating in small groups - one lead ship, and a handful of escorts, mostly - that are fast, mobile and independent; but are capable of joining up together into a more cohesive unit if the story demands it. The aim would be to focus on small "skirmish" type missions: mostly PvE against the odd NPC Imperial ship in the area, but with some PvP against the fleeters operating out of Cloud City every now and again, for a little flavour.

Basically: little skirmish threads to give us a "feel" of a Galactic Civil War that's constantly being waged, rather than getting over ambitious and diving straight in with a big Battle thread. Who knows? If we get our juices flowing and get into the swing of things with these skirmishes, we might be better cut out for a large battle anyway.


Another thing I discussed with Charley (and also with Kale) was personalising the tactics that each commander uses. Those tactics might fit with their personality; or it might fit with the nature of the ships withing their force. A few examples:

Dan's Dauntless has a high Starfighter capacity. Given how Dan thinks as a person, he's likely to use those fighters and his escorts to flank his enemies; trapping them, outmanoeuvering them, etc.
My intended fleeter is a Quarren; his tactics might more closely resemble an aquatic predator. Sharks generally attempt to trap their prey between them and the surface; the Quarren might have escorts who fly in formation with his command ship like Pilot Fish, and might use them to help steer an enemy and cut off it's retreat, so that the command ship can surge in and bite it in half: more of a head-on attack than the traditional navy broadside.
Another animal-based formation might be inspired by a scorpion: two frigates used as "pincers" to pin an opponent in place; a fast and powerful ship like a Marauder Corvette to come in as the stinger and unleash missile hell; and then the main body of the ship to chew the corpse to bits with it's turbolasers.

There are more options, but you can see the sorts of things were toying with. The Imperials are supposed to be fairly grand, formal, and by the book in their tactics. Flexibility is the beauty of the Alliance: and we think it'll be all kinds of awesome-as-hell fun to showcase that.

[Xavier Synik]

I'm around and trying to get back into writing, so I might be interested in doing something. Might help to give me some motivation to write.

[Carré Inirial]

I'd like to try it, actually. Never taken part in any fleeting before (let's face it, I came from You-Know-Where), and while I'm somewhat clueless, I wouldn't mind learning as I go.

Providing y'all don't mind being tolerant about me asking a billion questions...

[Captain Untouchable]

I'm around and trying to get back into writing, so I might be interested in doing something. Might help to give me some motivation to write.

Hurrah!

I'll try and grab you on AIM for some Dorn-related scheming, if you're up for it.

[Xavier Synik]

your better off sending me a PM. I'm almost never on AIM anymore.

[Park Kraken]

I do have an alliance fleeting character, but with so many people already present, perhaps I'll just play the opposition. I could eventually build up a taskforce while pursuing your forces around that leads to a moderatly climatic battle where the mettle of your forces are tested, or something along those lines.

[Tarrick Ragnus]

I'll make a character named Horace P. McTitties today and submit my application.

[Eragon_Dushall]

I'm new to the site and was thinking about making a Rebellion character and this sounds like something i would be interested in.

[Xavier Synik]

forgot to mention I have both Ky who is a grunt, but I also have Sumor who is a general with the republic equivelent of a MEU. So I can play both a low ranking member as well as a high ranking member.

[Captain Untouchable]

I do have an alliance fleeting character, but with so many people already present, perhaps I'll just play the opposition. I could eventually build up a taskforce while pursuing your forces around that leads to a moderatly climatic battle where the mettle of your forces are tested, or something along those lines.

My hesitance here is the same reason I'm reluctant to plunge into Rogues vs. Shadows threads. It's really tough to keep the momentum going on those kind of encounters, purely because you have so many people who all want to get involved and have their say. Plots get all jumbled up, and trying to follow what is happening on a grand scale can be pretty difficult.

And that's just 12 v 12 snubfighters. Expand that up to fleet size, and you've got potentially dozens of ships, hundreds of planes, and a tangled mess to decipher.

Worse, someone has to loose. You can't possibly have that scale of encounter without a lot of ships on one side or other being slagged; and if we're looking at having small groups of Rebels with only a few ships each, every loss is going to be all the more significant and dramatic: not the sort of thing that should be callously entered into on a whim.

I think it would be wise - initially at least - to focus on having these small-scale Rebels going up against NPC targets: PvE missions. Once we've settled in, worked out our tactics, and are generally in the zone, then we can explore the possibility of PvP conflicts; and explore ways that we can make the losses realistic, without too many of our fleeters having to be captured or killed in the process. :mischief

[Karl Valten]

My hesitance here is the same reason I'm reluctant to plunge into Rogues vs. Shadows threads. It's really tough to keep the momentum going on those kind of encounters, purely because you have so many people who all want to get involved and have their say. Plots get all jumbled up, and trying to follow what is happening on a grand scale can be pretty difficult.

Agreed on this. Back when we had large-scale fleet battles going before the reset at most we had 4 or 5 people taking part in a thread fleet engagement (usually 2-3).

For those of you who are new to fleeting. Communication is 100% essential, even if you play on different sides. If there is something that is confusing or doesn't make sense, ask about it. If you think your own post is doing too much in one go, ask what your opponent thinks.

I had a lot of fun doing large engagements with intricate manuevers when we had a solid line of understanding between the players.

It's kind of like playing a big game of chess in your head except you often ask for input from your opponent.

Fleet a lot different than 'normal' threads.


And that's just 12 v 12 snubfighters. Expand that up to fleet size, and you've got potentially dozens of ships, hundreds of planes, and a tangled mess to decipher.
The trick is not to bean-count. As fleet battles are hard to visualize in 3D and the grainy details aren't often very important abstractions are very useful and don't detract from the thrill of the fight.

When people gripe about this fighter or that turbolaser battery or this bomber is out of missiles, the thread bogs down and people get annoyed.



Worse, someone has to loose. You can't possibly have that scale of encounter without a lot of ships on one side or other being slagged; and if we're looking at having small groups of Rebels with only a few ships each, every loss is going to be all the more significant and dramatic: not the sort of thing that should be callously entered into on a whim.
This is my favorite part about fleeting. Being on the loosing side can honestly be a lot of fun. Consoles exploding, colleagues and officers dying, chaos, destruction. You can write very emotionally powerful post being on the receiving end of a beat-down.

I'll quote Telan Desaria on what he told me the first several times I did fleet threads:

"A well written defeat is infinitely better than a poorly written victory."

For the newbies (and even the experienced people), until you really trust the opposition to play fairly and honestly, you should agree to who will be winning the fight before hand.

Once you get a chance to play commander a bit this way, see what happens in an unscripted match-up. This is really difficult to do, but as long as everyone follows "common sense" rules it's a lot of fun.

If you get out maneuvered, don't do some crazy grandiose, impossible trick or "trump" to get out of loosing. I've had some great free-style threads with Reshmar and Lion where I just got trounced. In others, I managed to catch them off guard.

Granted these are all just words and it's much more difficult in practice.


I think it would be wise - initially at least - to focus on having these small-scale Rebels going up against NPC targets: PvE missions. Once we've settled in, worked out our tactics, and are generally in the zone, then we can explore the possibility of PvP conflicts; and explore ways that we can make the losses realistic, without too many of our fleeters having to be captured or killed in the process. :mischief
This is a great idea. I haven't fleeted in a while, but I can provide input on tactics, fleet composition, manuervers and such if anyone wants.

[Rhinn Ikthoos]

Grand Admiral Bean Counter Reporting in Sir!

Actually I'll be making my profile tonight.

[Captain Untouchable]

You make some good points, Karl - but what I'd personally like to aim for is perhaps more "Task Grouping" than Fleeting, based on what you're talking about.

Perhaps the best way to put it across is to point you in the direction of Star Trek. Over the course of The Next Generation or Voyager, the crew ran into all kinds of enemies. Some of them they were able to fend off without so much as a smoke-filled conduit rupturing. Other times, the ship got seriously wholloped (but not so badly that they couldn't patch up the damage, and come back to finish the bastards off by the end of the episode).

Very rarely was the ship destroyed; and when it was (excluding the odd time when Jean Luc made the mistake of letting Deanna drive), it was fantastically dramatic, like Karl says. In fact, it can be even more so; and the fact that there are fewer ships standing in between you and defeat amps up the risk too, which can make the whole thing more exciting.

It's a bit more complicated than the one-on-one scenario from Star Trek; you start factoring in fighters, and escorts, and there's so much more to describe: not to mention so much more opportunity to add in variety and scope.

It's that variety in particular that I think will be the greatest asset here. It'll be really interesting to see how people showcase their own personal styles on a PvE backdrop... and it'll be equally interesting, when PvP does roll around, to see what sort of countermeasures the Imperials can come up with.


We seem to have a fair few names popping up and expressing interest. If you are still interested given what I've just described above, please feel free to grab me on AIM or MSN, or fire across a PM; we'll have a brief chat about what it is you want to do, and then see what we can cook up. :)

[Vansen Tyree]

Added to the first post is a shortlist of everyone who has PM'd or AIM'd me thus far, more or less in the order they got in touch.

Sumor's forces are a little different, but for the rest of us I think the best plan is to group us together under one vague heading. If we want the option of interactivity with Bespin, then being with the Fourth Fleet - stationed at Sullust; the nearest Rebel world - would seem to make sense.

Dan is a General on a par with a Rear Admiral, so he would likely serve as the Task Force leader. Since I'm guessing we're all geeks and nerds, how about Task Force 42: derrived from being the 2nd Task Force in the 4th Fleet?

We'll skip the Commodore-led Task Group stage for now, and go straight to a Squadron, which is what our Captains will be leading. Rather than having a number, it's probably easiest to describe them by the name of the lead ship: so Dan would lead the "Dauntless Squadron"; meanwhile, the rest of us will have to think up names for our ships!

Is everyone happy with that so far?

* * *

To give everyone an idea of the tactics that are going on, thus far -

General Dan has a large command ship (Dauntless) with a large fighter capacity. He focuses on a mostly open warfare approach, using his numerous fighters - as well as his escorts - as part of flanking operations.

Ships:
MC80 Star Cruiser -- Dauntless (FLAG)
Pending...

Fighters:
Pending...

* * *

Captain Terius has a formation geared towards a blunt force naval attack, with a bias towards ship-to-ship combat. He uses his escorts to pin and pincer a target ship to stop it's escape, before moving in for a decisive strike with his command vessel.

Ships:
Modified* CR90 Corvette -- Scorpion (FLAG)
(2) Dreadnaught Heavy Cruisers -- Lakota, Malinche
(2) Carrack Cruisers -- Reliant, Majestic
Escort Carrier -- Mateo

* Modified to Sundered Heart (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sundered_Heart) Specs.

Fighters:
(24) A-Wing Interceptors
(36) X-Wing Starfighters
(12) Y-Wing Starfighters
(12) ARC-170 Starfighters - Six per Dreadnaught

* * *

Captain Grov has a force of fast and powerful ships that are geared towards ambushes and hit-and-run missions. They pursue and chase any survivors, aiming to ensure that word does not get back to Imperial command.

Ships:
Munificent-class Star Frigate (FLAG)
(2) Marauder-class Corvettes
(3) CR90 Corvettes

Fighters:
(24) Preybird Starfighters
(4) ARC 170 Starfighters - Replacing boarding shuttles on the Marauders
(3) Cutlass 9 Interceptors - In the ventral landing bay on the CR90s

* * *

Captain Ikthoos also deploys on hit-and-run raiding missions against convoys and small formations, but uses his sizeable fighter compliment to swarm the enemy (using fighters like B-Wings and Y-Wings) rather than engaging ship-to-ship.

Ships:
Liberator-class Cruiser (FLAG)
Quasar Fire-class Bulk Cruiser
(2) Interceptor IV Frigates
(2) DP20 Gunships

Fighters:
(120) Pending...

* * *

Anyone else, who has yet to PM or AIM me? :)

[Captain Untouchable]

Alrighty. Looks like everyone who wants to jump onboard has done so. If you aren't on the list in the post above, and would like to be involved, please remember to shoot me a PM - I lose track of things otherwise. :)

Rather than spin our wheels anymore, I'd like to start getting stuff established, and what not, and so will be starting a character intro / briefing thread. In fact, by the time you read this, I may well have already done so, in which case there will be a link to it here (http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21178).

I'm going to start us on Sullust and, in lieu of an Admiral, I'll be using the Subdirector of Fleet Intelligence: an amorphous, nebulous role, which pretty much allows him to be a generic briefing guy if we ever need one.

So... yeah. Eyes peeled, and what-not.

[James Prent]

http://www.sw-fans.net/wiki/index.php?title=Fourth_Fleet

:) Got something started for easier finding by others

[General Dan]

I edited the wiki to reflect Dauntless's pickets. I will further edit to reflect the starfighter balance when I wake up tomorrow.

[Captain Untouchable]

Awesome, thanks guys. :)

For the record though, don't forget that we're not representing the sum total of the Fourth Fleet: just one Task Force (42) of it. There's a lot of space around Sullust, a lot of borders that need protecting from neighbouring Imperials, and all that jazz... we're just a component of that.

It may seem like a moot distinction, but basically, it gives us an excuse to not have to be constantly defending Sullust itself all the time, doing border patrols, assorted other boring shizzle, etc.

[Taataani Meorrrei]

indeed.

Any idea of how large the balance of the 4th would be? Or, for that matter, the Alliance fleet in whole? I realize we're straying dangerously into bean counter land, but it might be kinda cool to figure out how significant (or not) the presence of a certain capital ship may or may not be in the galactic scheme of things.

[Jaden Luka]

Pre-ramble note: I've updated the wiki page that Holly set up to bring it in line with other Rebel force type pages, and have fixed some of those broken links. There are a couple of ships whose stats aren't on the wiki at all yet: I'll bump those to the top of my to do list.

* * *

Without talking to Reshmar to get a bead on the size of his fleet (which is pretty big, if memory serves), I can't really provide a perspective on how big we are relative to the entire Alliance Fleet.

With regards to the Fourth Fleet though, I would guess that - since we're new, and we're only number "42" - there is perhaps only a Task Force 40 and Task Force 41. If we're lining up to tangle with the Imperials at Bespin (potentially), then that puts is "to the left" of Sullust; maybe Task Force 41 operates "to the right", and Task Force 40 is the stay-at-home force protecting Sullust itself?

To work out how effective we are though, we don't really need to know how big the fleets are: just what we can - individually - take on.

As an example... the Dreadnaught wiki page says that three to five of them can outgun an Impstar; Captain Terius has two, plus support ships, so while he perhaps wouldn't be able to take out an Impstar solo, he's certainly more than a match for a Vicstar.

Similarly, the Munificent wiki page says that four of them can outgun a Victory or Venator. Captain Grov has one of those, plus two Marauders - who are pretty potent with those missiles of theirs - so while solo she couldn't tackle a Star Destroyer, she'd be able to take down smaller cruisers. And, stack her on top of Captain Terius, and maybe between them they can take down an Impstar.

On a third hand (since apparently I'm a multidextrous mutant), a Home One is comparable - in shields and armour at least - to an Impstar, so with your escorts thrown in, Dan can probably polish off one of those on his own, especially if your fighter compliment is geared for it.

Not quite an "on a galactic scale" sort of thing, but if we know what the Rebels are up against, and we know what we can individually take down... that's something, I guess.

[Adonis Inirial]

Thread is up (http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21178).

Appologies for the delay, and for the terrible pun.

[Anne Phoenix]

Well, I had sent a PM, but I guess I should have posted in the thread as well. Commodore Anne Phoenix reporting for Rebel duty.

Unassigned Task Force
MC-40a Allegiance
2 X-Wing Squadrons
1 Y-Wing Squadron
CR-90 Tangent
CR-90 Tarry

[Captain Untouchable]

Hmm. I haven't recieved a PM... but then, it may have got caught up with one of my Alts, so I'll have a hunt around and get back to you. In the meantime, feel free to write yourself into the thread, et al. :)

[Park Kraken]

I'm going to throw an idea for either a seperate fleeting thread or perhaps a precusor for this operation into this thread. Its a small setup that would allow for some basic introduction into fleeting tactics and character coordination;


Thread Summary:
An Imperial Corvette attacks a Smuggler Outpost on a small hollowed out asteriod base.
Two TIE Fighters escort a Shuttle into the Base while the Corvette holds a perimeter.
Rebel Commandos sieze the shuttle, without it sending a distress message.
A squadron of Rebel starfighters emerge from hyperspace.
The shuttle 'Flees' back to the Corvette while it's Starfighter complement engages the Rebel fighters.
Rebel Commandoes onboard sieze the Corvette while the Rebel fighters vape the TIEs with perhaps one or two NPC fighter losses.
The Corvette is added to the Rebel Fleet. Job Well Done.

Involved Characters:
Alliance:
Rebel Commandos (PC or NPC)
Starfighter Squadron (12 Craft, probably a mix of PC and NPC)

Empire:
Corvette Captain (PC or NPC)
Fighter Pilots (TIE Fighters and Interceptors, PC and/or NPC)


Involved Ships:
Alliance:
12 Starfighters
Empire:
1 CR-90b Corvette Trident
6 TIE Interceptors
4 TIE Fighters
1 Lamba Shuttle

[Rawlston Quinn]

What if we put a gamorean in a box and have an R2 Unit guide it to... nevermind.. it would never work. :twak

I like the idea. It would be a way of adding smaller ships to our fleet and irritating the Empire.

[Captain Untouchable]

Nice idea, but I'm not sure a dozen fighters constitutes "fleeting tactics", somehow. It doesn't involve any kind of capital ship on the Alliance side, and instead relies entirely on solo-fleeting tactics, and/or boarding tactics, so these fleeter characters aren't applicable.

Seems to me like your plan would be more suited for pilots or SpecForce people - maybe they're the audience you should be appealing to?

[Dou'lesa Grov]

Ships:
Nemesis - Munificent-class Star Frigate (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Munificent-class_star_frigate) (FLAG)
Acheron - Liberator-class cruiser (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Liberator-class_cruiser)
Thanatos & Phobos - (2) Marauder-class Corvettes (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Marauder-class_corvette)
Siren, Telchine, Nereid - (3) CR90 Corvettes (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/CR90)Fighters:
Demon & Predator squadrons (24) Preybird-class starfighters (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Preybird-class_starfighter) - Demon aboard Phobos, and Predator aboard Thanatos
Demon Alpha & Bravo, Predator Delta & Echo (4) ARC-170 starfighters (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Aggressive_ReConnaissance-170_starfighter) - Replacing boarding shuttles on the Marauders
Angel 1-3 (3) Cutlass 9 Interceptors - In the ventral landing bay on the CR90s
Phrike squadron (12) Drexl-class starfighters (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Drexl-class_starfighter) - aboard the Acheron
Zelos squadron (12) Drexl-class starfighters (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Drexl-class_starfighter) - aboard the Acheron
Moros squadron (12) Cutlass-9 patrol fighters (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cutlass-9_patrol_fighter) - aboard the Acheron
Kratos squadron (12) Cutlass-9 patrol fighters (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cutlass-9_patrol_fighter) - aboard the Acheron
Lethe squadron (12) V-19 Torrent starfighters (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/V-19_Torrent_starfighter) - aboard the Acheron
Styx squadron (12) V-19 Torrent starfighters (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/V-19_Torrent_starfighter) - aboard the Acheron

[Maxim Barov]

If any of you would like a little Imperial opposition... ;)

[Dou'lesa Grov]

Maxim, after I get my first fleeting thread out of the way, I would be delighted to take you on. Until then...perhaps another of my esteemed colleagues could show you the error of your ways...

[Park Kraken]

Nice idea, but I'm not sure a dozen fighters constitutes "fleeting tactics", somehow. It doesn't involve any kind of capital ship on the Alliance side, and instead relies entirely on solo-fleeting tactics, and/or boarding tactics, so these fleeter characters aren't applicable.


Much to learn about fleet battles, you have. If it's bigger than a one on one fighter duel, then it could be considered a 'fleet battle' so to speak. A lack of capital ships on one side doesn't mean it wouldn't be considered a fleet battle.

There's plenty to consider with a Squadron. Formations, Manuevers, Battle Plans, all need to be taken into consideration and worked on for unit cohesion and efficency to be peaked. Do you split into individual fighters, wing pairs, trios, etc, do you use torpedoes against the Interceptors and lasers against the regular fighters, or do you perhaps save them for a latter engagement and use all laser cannons while hoping minimalize losses? Maybe have two fighters on torpedo duty? Maybe have one fighter per a trio, the other two using shields, firing torpedoes at long range before the furball gets mixed up?

And what do the Imperial fighters do, fly enmass, perhaps send the Fighters out ahead with the Interceptors behind? Perhaps send the Fighters straight in while the TIE Interceptors split into two trios and attempt a Marg Sabl enclosure technique utilizing their higher speeds?

Trust me, there is still plenty to do and consider in smaller battles as opposed to the larger fleet engagements.

[Bette Davis]

Reading Ender's Game actually helped me visualize space battles a great deal. The whole talk about "there is no up" in space... it actually makes it difficult to think about direction when you're writing it out. So when I use "up" or "down" its always just in relation to my fighter's previous positioning. Still, I think it was very helpful.

[Tarrick Ragnus]

Reading Ender's Game actually helped me visualize space battles a great deal. The whole talk about "there is no up" in space... it actually makes it difficult to think about direction when you're writing it out. So when I use "up" or "down" its always just in relation to my fighter's previous positioning. Still, I think it was very helpful.


Yeah the battle at Endor, where all the ships are oriented in the same direction was just for the camera. For most battles it wouldn't have matter if they were all facing the same direction.

[Inyos Aamoran]

Much to learn about fleet battles, you...

*blah blah condescending waffle blah*

Trust me, there is still plenty to do and consider in smaller battles as opposed to the larger fleet engagements.


I think I know how fleeting works, thanks. I've been at it quite a while. ;)

As, in fact, all bar one of the fleeters involved in this thread. That one player is already a member of Rogue Squadron, so there is nothing your mission, as pitched, could possibly teach her that she has not already experienced.

If you'd actually read my statement in context, you would have realised that it was the type of characters you were asking for - PC pilots, SpecForce, etc - that I felt was inappropriate. It isn't a suitable mission for fleeting characters, as I stated. As has been stated in this thread already, the character aspects are a big part of this push; there is no accomodation for Captain characters. If people are PC writing the actual boarding operations like you suggest, that shifts the focus away from the fleeting style overview and, as I point out, into the realms of a mission that would be more suitable for pilots or SpecForce, like Rogue Squadron or Dorn Force. Not for Captains.

And beyond that... surely it would be a more logical and constructive use of time for people to "practice" with the ships and formations they intend to be using in the long term? Yes, piloting does help visualise things, but we aren't quite in the position for that basic an introduction.

As stated, if you do feel a desire to run this particular story event, you might find that a piloting or SpecForce audience is more appropriate and receptive.

[Lowrook]

*blah blah condescending waffle blah*

I will have to work this into my class I'm teaching tomorrow. I'll let you know how it goes.

[Inyos Aamoran]

*blah blah condescending waffle blah*

I will have to work this into my class I'm teaching tomorrow. I'll let you know how it goes.

Do I get royalties?

I demand 7% of all caffine consumed in beverage form, and no less than 3 chocolate hobnobs. :mad

[Park Kraken]

If you'd actually read my statement in context, you would have realised that it was the type of characters you were asking for - PC pilots, SpecForce, etc - that I felt was inappropriate. It isn't a suitable mission for o_O fleeting characters o_O , as I stated.

So in other words, the battle that we're going to write up will have absolutley no starfighters involved, and is purely a deep space no planet involved engagement, which is about the only place a fleet battle could take place where SpecForces would have absolutley no role of any kind?

[Captain Untouchable]

Don't be silly. That isn't remotely what I'm saying. They will of course be involved. But Captain Grov or General Dan don't fly fighters. They command ships. What's the point of practicing if you aren't going to practice with the character and tactics you intend to use?

[Park Kraken]

Go ahead and proceed without me, I have other plans for Anne, concerning the Alliance's economy and such/such.