Jedi Holocron

[Droo]

First of all, I don't know much about holocrons or how they work so most of this is just me turning over an idea in my head.

The Wheel, awesome as it is, is a limited environment in which to explore a Jedi's training. And I've been thinking about how we can tackle this issue to keep things feeling fresh, after all there is only so much we can say about a hangar bay, a cargo hold, a bridge, an engineering deck...

In short, I was wondering if we could either have our characters create or discover a unique kind of holocron that allows the user, or users, to pour their consciousness into it. The holocron would then fabricate diverse environments in which a Jedi can train. The way I see this, it would be the Star Wars equivalent of a holodeck, or of the training programs from the Matrix, or even the X-Men's Danger Room. Want to meditate on Naboo? No problem. How about lightsaber training on Mustafaar? Easy peasy! How about simulating the Battle of Geonosis? Interesting...

After mentioning this to Kale/Akasha/Solomon, he also had the fascinating idea of allowing such a holocron to act a bit like a pensieve from the Harry Potter series. Not only does it create environments for the Jedi, but a Jedi could also be able to pour troubling memories or dreams into it and, with the aid of a wisened companion, come to terms with them.

What do you guys think? If you like the idea, we could always implement it into the Waking Past: Sanctuary Lost thread and have the holocron be something obtained from the ship.

[Serena Laran]

I like it, and I think we should use it in the Waking Past thread. :thumbup

[Acacius Blade]

Sharing visions and dreams sounds good. But as for training environments - I was having a brief word with Jenny the other night and suggested we repair and restore the Sanctuary. Once it's functional it could be integrated into the Wheel and provide a proper home and training centre for the Jedi at 'Fans.

Since such a repair job would be more than the Jedi could carry out, I was thinking that the Rebels who are with The Wheel could perform limited repairs to get the drive systems working to get it somewhere safe. Then in another thread us Jedi folks could take part in a mission (or carry one out on our own terms) in which we save hundreds of Alliance personnel from impending doom. Not only would it demonstrate how valuable we can be to the Alliance, but it could also be the reason for a high-up Admiral or whoever to order a dedicated repair crew to fully restore the ship and then deliver it to The Wheel as a thank you.

For the purposes of training, the holocron doesn't sit well with me. In The Matrix, Neo trained via computer programs, but he only ever implemented that training within the Matrix, never in the real world. I can't see how lightsaber training in this 'dream state' for whant of a better term - and since I loved Inception - would prepare the muscles for real-world implementation of the moves, stances and techniques. Knowledge and understanding - sure, that's all internal anyways. But physical training should, in my opinion, be kept physical.

Perhaps we could have a sort of holodeck on the ship, or a large number of diverse training rooms that each mimic different environments. They could be customizable to an extent, or be completely reimagined like a holodeck. I haven't got a problem with thieving a Star Trek concept and using it here, personally.

[Droo]

It is my understanding that holocrons have always contained records on lightsaber combat. One would presume you learn the forms from a holocron then put them into practice in the real world. I'm not implying a Jedi should be able to gain physical attributes from a holocron, but the knowledge to develop them, definately.

[Dasquian Belargic]

A holocron, to my understanding, is just like an interactive training manual. The holocron has a 'guardian' - a holographic avatar representation of the Jedi who created the holocron - which is responsible for dispensing the knowledge contained within. From what I've read in the EU, the holocron 'guardian' can even be imparted with the ability to judge and sense the abilities of the person using the holocron, ensuring that young and untrained minds don't have access to info that is beyond their capabilities :)

I think it would be something cool to retrieve from the Jedi ship, as Droo suggested.

[Acacius Blade]

Thats fine. But once you have that knowledge, there is still just the same old cargo bay on the Whaledon to put that knowledge into practice. I do like the idea, particularly based on your notion of meditating on Naboo.

Oooh, again thieving from Inception - what about keeping the stasis system in place and establishing the idea that the holocron works with the stasis fields. It puts people into stasis so that time is irrelevant to them. And they all share the same consciousness and spend as long as necessary. Now the actual time they spend could be very brief, but a week could have passed as far as the Holocroneers were concerned. Perhaps thats how the ancient Jedi spent their time between worlds. Their bodies were protected from time but their minds were able to take advantage of it ten-fold.

To avoid exploitation and god-moding, some sort of damage to the system might be needed in order to explain a limitation of its use - such as only being able to spend a limited amount of time before it has to be shut down for cooldown/recharge/repair/whatever. And we have a story element preventing it from being fully repaired - it's ancient tech and nobody knows exactly how to restore it fully, so constant repairs are the only means of using it.

Then we can still use the rest of the ship for quarters, sparring, lightsaber construction, general exercise and socialising.

[Acacius Blade]

Another idea. How about on its own, the holocron is a normal training and info thing. But when used with the ship, it allows this shared-consciousness state to happen. At the end of this current thread, we have the ship itself as well as the holocron. If we say that the holocron is damaged, that gives us more to do. I've already mentioned a sister ship, Hope. Maybe they had a holocron as well which is also damaged. If they do a bit of detective work they could locate the ship and using the other holocron, repair one of them to full functionality. Then use it with the Sanctuary's systems to unlock this dream-state function. But to keep things simple we could say the other ship is beyond salvage - only the holocron is salvageable.

And after that, we could round it off as a trilogy with a thread concerning our first experience with this wonderful shared consciousness.

[Akasha Khan]

You've certainly got some interesting ideas, but we need to decide whether we want to defer the use of the holocron until two more major threads have been completed. I don't have any immediate ideas for something to do with it, but Droo and others might.

I also think we want to be careful about attaching too many rules to it. It's a mysterious and potentially very powerful object, but its primary value is as a storytelling tool. It's potentially a way to expose our characters' inner worlds to one another. As long as nobody uses it as an excuse to make their character crazy powerful (and how boring would that be, anyway!), this is an opportunity to let our imaginations run wild.

Droo mentioned my idea of using to explore dreams. It could also be a way to share memories of exotic locations with a friend, or with a lover. It could be a way to personify fears and desires. It could be a way to experience memories through someone else's eyes. Imagine pulling up a historical record only to find yourself not as an invisible observer but as an active participant cast in the story.

Let's not think purely in terms of training here. This is an exploration tool for inner space. Whether you're inspired by Inception, Doctor Who, Stargate, or the Twilight Zone - let's go for it. :)

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

I love this idea. The potential to open our venues to inner space, as Kale put it, is amazing fodder for some very intense and vivid roleplays. Count me in :)

[Acacius Blade]

Well it would just be one other thread, since the one after that would be us actually using it for the first time.

Or since I quite like the idea of looking for the other one, how about this. The current one's damage prevents us from recreating anything other than our own memories, dreams and experiences - the data for the pre-loaded environments and historical events and locations are corrupted so the only choice is to find the other one to repair it. Doesn't stop people using it right away for certain things.

[Drin Kizael]

Just coming in to confirm that yes, a holocron is a training manual in itself. It is essentially a collection of data crystals that contains a ton of Jedi knowledge with an AI "librarian" modeled after the Jedi Master that created it. The hologram would have the creator's basic personality and such. It's more like Jor-El in the Fortress of Solitude on Smallville than a Star Trekkie type thing.

I like the idea of repairing this Sanctuary thing to give us more training environments, which I presume is some kind of starbase?

[Eragon_Dushall]

I could have sworn, and I'm looking around for it, that there was a way of training out there where two Jedi would link their minds and were able to train against each other. It not only trained their minds but it also trained their bodies. I could be wrong but I swear I read it in one of the books.

[Acacius Blade]

The idea of physical training without physical exertion just doesn't compute to me.

And the Sanctuary is a ship. Unarmed but it has defensive shields. And its big, as well as fully automated when at peak operational capacity. Still not decided on what it looks like though, but Droo and I have been brainstorming. I like the idea of it being really tall as opposed to the general convention of longer.

[Eragon_Dushall]

Te sanctuary could look like those alien ships from hitchhikers guide to the galaxy. They were practically fly skyscrapers. Lol

[Anj]

You aren't talking about one of these things (http://cache.io9.com/assets/resources/2007/11/HeartOfGold.jpg)?

[Eragon_Dushall]

No the other ships... i'm looking

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

I figured that the Sanctuary would be like a sister ship to the Chu'unthor.

[Acacius Blade]

Same purpose, but I loathe the Chu'unthor's look.

[Droo]

Except the Chu'unthor is a bit... hideous! :x

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Ha! Well I'm certainly not gonna argue with you guys :p

[Eragon_Dushall]

What about the Fhloston from 5th Element. I'm sure some of our artist can make it look space worthy... lol

[Acacius Blade]

Too much like a big bulky ocean liner. I'm flexible, but I've envisioned something thats a lot taller than it is broad, but still has a decent length on it. Imagine it being the same length as an Imperial Star Destroyer, but at least 50% taller. And that height would run the length of the ship almost - whereas an ISD's height is greatest at the bridge section. I'm yet to find a good approximation of what I have in mind.

However I could go even taller than that, with less length if the idea sits with everyone. It's my idea but it'll be our ship. It should be something we're all happy with. I did consider the mothership from the Homeworld games, with is like a capital-sized Slave One in that it looks like it flies standing up.

[Akasha Khan]

I've gone from not having an idea of something I want to do with the holocron to having a very specific idea for a thread that I've been discussing with both Droo and Tionne, and there are a few others I'd like to invite to join in. All that needs to be established to make this thread possible are that:

1) We've found an ancient holocron

2) that has the unique property of allowing Jedi to enter simulated realities through some sort of shared consciousness.

All the other details of the holocron's discovery are immaterial for this story. The thread doesn't involve any kind of physical training, though I can guarantee that all the characters involved will be profoundly affected.

As long as no one has a serious problem with those premises, I'd like to try to get it started soon. :)

[Dasquian Belargic]

^ This sounds intriguing.

[Eragon_Dushall]

What about the capital ships in starship troopers. Some good photoshopping and you can remove the big bridge tower. With the lack of numerous windows the size and scale of the ship can be changed to fit your needs. And I also think this ship is more Star Wars worthy when I look at the appearance of it.

[Acacius Blade]

As long as physical training remains physical, I'm all for a bit of soul-walking (as opposed to soul searching). Count me in (if I'm invited)

[Droo]

ENOUGH WITH THE PHYSICAL!

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Now you've done it! :eek

[Eragon_Dushall]

Physical is as physical does. :lol

[Vansen Tyree]

I've gone from not having an idea of something I want to do with the holocron to having a very specific idea for a thread that I've been discussing with both Droo and Tionne, and there are a few others I'd like to invite to join in. All that needs to be established to make this thread possible are that:

1) We've found an ancient holocron

2) that has the unique property of allowing Jedi to enter simulated realities through some sort of shared consciousness.

All the other details of the holocron's discovery are immaterial for this story. The thread doesn't involve any kind of physical training, though I can guarantee that all the characters involved will be profoundly affected.

As long as no one has a serious problem with those premises, I'd like to try to get it started soon. :)


I have to admit, I'm somewhat intregued by the concept as well - both to see what you have in mind, and also for the long-term applications. I shall grab you for scheming, I think...