Chicken or Egg?

[Captain Untouchable]

Obviously, meticulous planning of the timeline isn't necessary, but it might perhaps be helpful to work out when certain things are happening, relative to certain other events.

The thread with Serena: does that happen before or after the new Rebel ships join the Wheel?

The thread to the Old Republic ship: is that before or after the Serena thread?

Where does the timeline for the Independents fit in - when do they get revealed, relative to everything else?

When do the Imperials move to Bespin? Is it after the Independents - part of them consolodating what territory they can, to clamp down on systems that might rebel?

How about the KA taking control of Ambria - do we want that finished before the Big Story starts? How long after the Queen Mother's assassination is that?

What about the Black Sun merger? It's before Bespin, certainly. Is it before anything else?

Does 4 AE start at any point in all this? Do we want to make that the beginning of the "Big Story" arc... or the end; so we can easily work out if things transpire before or after it?

[Dasquian Belargic]

How about the KA taking control of Ambria - do we want that finished before the Big Story starts? How long after the Queen Mother's assassination is that?

When this happens is irrelevant largely because it will have no impact on the KA's interactions with any other factions.

As for Ishara's assassination, that <strike>is already in the timeline as occuring 2 Years, 2 Months AE (http://www.sw-fans.net/wiki/index.php?title=Year_Two#2_Years.2C_2_Months_AE)</strike> happened a year ago.

[Captain Untouchable]

The names of pages on the timeline have changed. I thought - when we discussed it months ago - that we were going to describe "0 years, 5 months AE" as being in the year "0 AE"?

The Battle of Bothawui is meant to be "a year ago", and yet that was 2 AE at the time... but now it's 3 AE?

Everything seems all out of synch and confusing now. :cyduck

[Dasquian Belargic]

Wasn't Miranda's coronation 3 years After Endor? As a galaxy wide event, we can orientate ourselves based on that... in which case the Battle of Bothawui must be closer to 4AE?

[Bette Davis]

I changed it from being called "year zero" in the timeline in the wiki to 1 AE, because 1 AE is the actual year, Zero being the event of the Battle Endor. I thought this made things easier for people, I'm sorry if it actually did the opposite. I was trying to make it conform to the norm.

I already did ask about the Serena timeline timing in this forum, just no one but Drin replied. *frustration*

http://75.126.43.122/forum/showthread.php?t=20962 thread in question

I did actually add some Wheel events to the timeline in 3 AE (formerly Year Two) and was/am in process of slotting in my Serena threads around that. I am going on the assumption that most of the current Jedi/Wheel/Rogues threads occur between An End of Serenity and An Overdue Call, a space of a IC few months (as I see it).

[Dasquian Belargic]

Chronology is such a can of worms.

[Captain Untouchable]

I changed it from being called "year zero" in the timeline in the wiki to 1 AE, because 1 AE is the actual year, Zero being the event of the Battle Endor. I thought this made things easier for people, I'm sorry if it actually did the opposite. I was trying to make it conform to the norm.

We had this Year Zero discussion previously, here (http://sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19898), but it was never resolved.

As mentioned in that thread, the official Star Wars publications do have a Year Zero. If we don't, that makes the maths of translating from "BBY" on Wookieepedia into "BE" on Fans that much harder. You've conformed to the BC/AD "norm", but not to the Star Wars EU norm, unfortunately.

Can we please come up with a decision one way or another, rather than leaving the issue unresolved? It's hard enough keeping timeline stuff in order as it is, without people calling the years different names.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Fine I can change it to 0 AE and so on and so forth.

Would that be acceptable to you?

As far as chronology, I don't get intense about it. I put my threads in there in the order they happen in regard to each other and other major galaxy events. If someone else wants to add theirs and notices that something needs tweaking, then they just need to chat with me about the placement of my RP and we can work something out.

Its not a mandatory thing by any means. And you can always add other people's threads (I have been known to) if you know where they go in relation to your own threads and such.

Basically I pin a big RP that other events hinge around, like An Overdue Call, into the timeline, and slot everything else in around it.

I don't think that it matters when the Bespin takeover happens other than it happens after An End of Serenity, which is when the Jedi are chased off of Bespin.

[Captain Untouchable]

I'm not trying to be an OCD neatfreak here. I'm just advocating a little common-sense ordering, so that people know who is where, and when. We don't need anything fancy. Just a bullet pointed list would do! :)

In the Wheel, for example: from thread to thread whether it's the Valiant and Leela Vorega who is in charge of protecting the fleet, or if it's the Challenger and Vansen Tyree. We don't know if the Rogues are the only squadron, or if the other pilots have shown up yet. We don't know if Serena / LDV / Akasha are present. Characters who are participating in the Waking thread don't know if they've already had experience of a "Jedi mission" rescuing Serena... and visa versa.

It affects everyone; and it wouldn't take us much to agree on an order for the basic three or four events. I'm not just trying to be awkward and blow it out of proportion. :)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Well, LD is never going to show up at the Wheel, so that answers that. And Serena hasn't been rescued and she won't show up until that happens. So any current Jedi threads now are taking place before she is rescued, imo.

[Captain Untouchable]

Well, LD is never going to show up at the Wheel, so that answers that. And Serena hasn't been rescued and she won't show up until that happens. So any current Jedi threads now are taking place before she is rescued, imo.

So, the Waking thread happens before Serena has been rescued, is what you're saying. So:

Wheel is formed.
The new Council is formed.
The Waking thread happens.
Serena is rescued.

See? That wasn't hard. :mneh

What about the events where Daria negotiates for new ships; and then they subsequently turn up? Since the Jedi specifically had a tour of the Valiant (rather than the Challenger), and that was a big deal, presumably that was the only Rebel ship at the time.

So... do we get the new ships before we rescue Serena, or after we rescue Serena?

[John Glayde]

There is, it turns out, actually an in-universe calendar that's mentioned in the EU. In an incredible fluke, the years line up in such a way that "0 BE" - the year leading up to, and ending with, the Battle of Endor - is called "Year 40". (Well, ish... Endor happens in the middle of the year. But it's close enough, right? :uhoh)

Given the way our wiki is set up, Page #1 would be "Year 41", Page #2 would be "Year 42", and so on. Nice and definitive, without any confusion over what Before Endor / After Endor means.

I'd suggest maybe changing the page titles thus, but retaining the "2 Years, 2 Months after Endor" listings - like you did when you changed the names already, Holly - to help people keep tabs on time relative to Endor itself?

Assuming people are cool with using that, of course. :)


Edit:

NB. Once you get all the way back to 40 BE - "Year 0" - the calendar system stops. There is an older one before that though, which covers pretty much everything for the previous thousand years. For events and characters who were born more than 43 years ago, we could push that onto a previous page?

[Dasquian Belargic]

What about the events where Daria negotiates for new ships; and then they subsequently turn up?

Grace and Daria meet before the Serena rescue attempt, but she hasn't received a reply back from the Alliance yet - so in all likelihood we will get the ships as we in the process of actually planning Serena's rescue, or after.

[Tear]

I always had money on the egg but apparently, it's the chicken (http://www.thestar.com/living/article/836216--science-answers-the-question-which-came-first-the-chicken-or-the-egg?bn=1). As for the timeline stuff. I'll get back to you.

[Captain Untouchable]

What about the events where Daria negotiates for new ships; and then they subsequently turn up?

Grace and Daria meet before the Serena rescue attempt, but she hasn't received a reply back from the Alliance yet - so in all likelihood we will get the ships as we in the process of actually planning Serena's rescue, or after.

After probably makes the most sense I suppose, just to eliminate it as a factor. Unless anyone Rebel who isn't aboard the Wheel yet desperately wants to be involved?

[Aris V'larr]

Sorry to bust this open again, but we've got a new event we need to locate - the Challenger's arrival to the Wheel in response to the Wheel's request for reinforcements. I'm eager to get this character into action, and my hands are tied until that happens.

I'd like to suggest that it jumps in as the cavalry to save everybody's butt in Imperial Entanglements (http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?p=344987). Yes, it's a huge coincidence, but it would make for a cool introduction between the Thunderbolts and the Rogues.

Even if that doesn't happen, the Rogues still need to know the state of the Wheel when the Serena rescue happens, as the Challenger is going to shuffle their assignments a bit - they'll have a new mothership, some new personnel, etc.

So here's my proposed timeline of the relevant events:
Getting Things in Order (http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20087) - An Imperial cruiser surprises The Wheel and makes everybody crap their pants.
One's Not Enough (http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20526) - The Jedi of The Wheel request reinforcements from Alliance command.
Imperial Entanglements (http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?p=344987) - Sanis and Loki lead a VicStar to the Wheel, forcing a hasty retreat (aided by the timely arrival of the Challenger?)
Serena gets rescued!Does that look good to everyone?

[Corell Capstan]

Yes :thumbup

[Rhinn Ikthoos]

don't forget #4 - Serena bed Rhinn and they produce a blue hairless human baby.

[Drin Kizael]

I was also under the impression that there would be a significant time lapse between the point when we found out she was captured until we can launch the rescue mission. Was I mistaken?

[Rev Solomon]

Well, there's time to gather information, time to make plans and assemble resources... I'm pretty sure it's a priority, so we're talking a matter of weeks, not months.

[Drin Kizael]

Yes, continuity is an ugly bag of worms indeed. That timeframe is kind of what I was thinking, too, after reading the updated OOC thread. So, as I originally said, the action in all those upcoming threads surrounding Serena happens more or less back-to-back.

So, uh ... hrm... Well when the timeline gets updated on the wiki, my own personal history will be integrated something like this...

Prison Blues / The Chase Begins (Drin meets Morgan, and Morgan's unwritten escape)

... 3 months...
Miranda Tarkin's coronation
Echoes of a Past Life part 1

... a few more months to a year? ...
Various threads of the Wheel forming

Echoes of a Past Life part 2 (Drin escapes Stars End - also never finished sadly)
Getting Things In Order

... 1 month ...
Changing of the Guard (Council officially forms)
One's Not Enough
Imperial Entanglements
>> My crystal hunt thread that I'm hopeful to start soon

... next month...
An Overdue Call
Welcome to the Middle of Nowhere (Morgan arrives at the Wheel)

... etc

[Bette Davis]

I am curious as to how Morgan being on Star's End coincides with Morgan meeting Serena on Nar Shaddaa. :) Obviously it has to happen before she meets him... which was about two years previously, timeline time.

[Jaden Luka]

I was also under the impression that there would be a significant time lapse between the point when we found out she was captured until we can launch the rescue mission. Was I mistaken?

There are all manner of other bits and pieces going on. The timeline doesn't factor in the "A Reputation to Maintain" mission run by Rogue Squadron, which fits in somewhere between #2 and #3. It doesn't incorporate the various threads like the trip to Bespin, the trip to Mon Cal to request forces to help with the mission, etc; those all fit in between #3 and #4.

It's not a comprehensive timeline; it's just so people can get a bead on the status quo in the Wheel at a given time: which is the Rebel command ship; which squadrons are on-hand; who is the senior Rebel Officer; etc.

Just as an example: because the Valiant is the command ship in the "The Waking Past" arc, we thus know it happens before #3... etc.

[Dai]

So is the Serena situation 5 AE? Sounds like the general consesus. I'm only asking because I want to know the timeline I'm working in and what I should put up on the Wiki.

[Inyos Aamoran]

No - the Serena thing is in 3 AE, I believe.

[Emelie Shadowstar]

Ok so... because I'm crazy and was looking at the timeline today...

Since An Overdue Call takes place at 2 years 10 months (in 3AE...) then...I'm guessing all the lead up/planning etc.. is pretty much taking place in the beginning of/middle of 4AE?

Maybe placing the "BIG RESCUE!" threads over somewhere around 3 years 4 months(4 AE)?

I figure it would take some time to get everything together considering there's a LOT going on in the meanwhile.

... :( I want to update the wiki timeline, dammit.

[Dai]

Whenever I get to a computer I plan to give all my characters a timeline update.

[Captain Untouchable]

I thought we decided to go with a 0 AE in the end, to make converting from ABY easier. That would put An Overdue Call in 2 AE. <br><br>Also, I think you're overestimating what needs to be done. The rescue is just a few small teams, so having the prep take place within a month or two isn't unreasonable. :)<br><br>For ease, why don't we assume that the rescue happens at the very end of the year, and everything that happens after it is in the following (3 AE) year?

[Emelie Shadowstar]

...I'm still 100% confused. :|

Yeahh...not gonna place anything until people place the big stuff. lol

[Soto Terius]

I think I can see where some of the confusion is coming from.

The timeline for the Wheel seems a lot more squished towards one end than people perhaps realise - no doubt because it's been a while since we started out. Pardon me for using real world month names, but thus far we have:
Jan - Miranda Tarkin becomes Empress. The Liberation of Bothawui occurs.
Feb -
Mar -
Apr -
May -
Jun -
Jul -
Aug - The Jedi flee Cloud City; Serena is captured.
Sept - The Wheel is formed.
Oct - An Overdue Call.
Nov -
Dec - Life Day.We're effectively trying to cram all of the Serena stuff, plus the recent Rogue threads, Errand Boys / Entanglements, etc into the last couple of months of that year. One of the complications there is that we did the Life Day thread, and are now writing the events before it, but most of us (myself included) didn't realise, and so are acting as if the current events are after Life Day.

Rather than perpetuate the headache, could we move things like A Reputation to Maintain, Errand Boys, and An Undue Call into January / February of Three Years After Endor? Perhaps the Rogue/Reputation and Errand/Entanglements events in January, and then the Undue Call / Bespin thread in February, with the rescue itself going down in March? At least that way, we're keeping our timelines (fairly) linear.

And yes, I realise the irony of talking about linear timelines with this particular avatar. ;)

[Dasquian Belargic]

Life Day should be before An Overdue Call etc certainly.

[Anbira Hicchoru]

Wait, Life Day is after all of this stuff? Oyyyy

[Dasquian Belargic]

No o_O I don't know where that idea has come from

[Captain Untouchable]

No o_O I don't know where that idea has come from

According to the timeline, it is. The idea has come from the simple act of reading. :mneh

In all seriousness though, it's likely because someone worked out "this happens x amount after the Wheel is formed", and didn't think it through, or something. But yeah.

This is why people are confused. This is why the timeline needs to actually be sorted to some vague extent, rather than just shrugging and hoping for the best. :|

[Droo]

This is why I give matters of chronology lip service at best. :whaa

[Captain Untouchable]

Is that not the problem, though? It isn't difficult to work out if your thread happens after A and before B. But because no one bothers, we end up with a jumbled mess.

The fact that we can't manage to keep things on the Wheel in some sort of vague order - which really, isn't that much - is just laziness, really. :(

[Droo]

It just depends on your own mentality. Where others say, "Oh, I can't possibly do that with my character because [something about timeline]," I just go for it and enjoy myself. The beauty of that is that I'm flexible enough with my characters and their timelines to accomodate others who like to stick to a more linear approach. I can understand it, but I just don't feel the need to accomodate it.

[Captain Untouchable]

...right.

Anyway.

Does someone who actually gives a rats ass want to comment now, so we can actually get some traction on this? Or are we just gonna leave it again until the next person's brain pops trying to make sense of it?

:rolleyes

[Droo]

And here we are with the patronizing again. Do you mind not doing that? I seem to remember you not taking too kindly to it when someone did that to you recently. I was merely lending my view on the matter, I don't expect you to agree with me, but I do expect to be treated like an adult.

[Nen Lev'i]

Uh... okay. Sorry.

And here I was trying to be light hearted and have a sense of humour about the issue.

Jeez.

:(

[Dai]

It would soothe that headache if the threads were moved to 4 AE. That'd get most of the problems off the table and people could finally adjust their own timeline accordingly.

[Dasquian Belargic]

The ultimate problem is this: the timeline is not something everyone adheres to. There is no compulsion for anyone to pay attention to it, or to insert themselves into it. Creating a linear chronology of your roleplays is something you can choose to do, but certainly it's not something that will be rigidly enforced. Like everything on the wiki, it is user generated - and not an official part of SW-Fans guildelines.

Our official stance on the timeline relates only to the date at which the reset began (after Endor) and everything after that is effectively subjective.

My suggestion would be that if you are confused about how certain events relate to your characters individual timeline, you ask the other people involved in those events for some input. Alternatively, take the approach that Droo mentioned and don't worry so much about it.

Also, keep in mind that we are all communicating by text here. It can be difficult to judge 'tone' and what comes off as a joke to you might seem not so funny to others. There is no right or wrong way about approaching the timeline, because it's not an official/mandatory, so calling people lazy for not wanting to do it or pedantic for wanting to do it is not appreciated.

[Nen Lev'i]

My suggestion would be that if you are confused about how certain events relate to your characters individual timeline, you ask the other people involved in those events for some input.

Is that not the entire point of this thread? I was under the impression that we were - as the denziens of the Wheel, et al - doing exactly that. There are so many of us that it would be a logistical nightmare trying to do it one-on-one.

And I appologise for offense caused by my choice of language. I'm just incredibly frustrated with this entire issue, which has taken months of circular discussion, and got nowhere. Rather than a laid-back discussion to square up the order of the important threads - for the benefit of numerous people, not just me - people keep dragging the issue back to the philosophical "Should we bother with a timeline or not?"

Sorry if it seems rude to say it, but it seems irrelevant, and has thus far only served to derail the discussion various times.

It's great that we all have opinions. But if your opinion is "I don't really mind what order it's in," then could you perhaps not clog up the discussion thread for the people who do mind, please? :)

Edit:

I suppose it's my fault for not using the NSP tag... >_<

[Emelie Shadowstar]

I have no issues with people who honestly don't "care" where stuff falls in a timeline. Especially if it has to do with individual character threads. No one's forcing anyone to do anything with the wiki and that's the way it kinda should be, I guess.

But when it comes to the "major" events, I think it's important that as a community we can come to some sort of agreement on when they take place, specifically so that those of us who are crazy and love linear stuff don't go insane. lol

Which...I thought that was kinda the point here? Since the lead up to and the actual rescue of Serena has been the biggest thing since Miranda's coronation/Dasq's "execution"/Bothawui I figured it would be important to just kinda hammer out when that happens. :\

Heck...I'm odd enough I'd love to stick a generic "The Wheel is formed" on there too since that seems like a pretty huge thing.

It's fine if people don't want to get that detailed when it comes to small plot lines/threads/etc. But... yeah... I dunno... it just kinda seems odd for people to honestly be like "I don't care when that happens." :whaa But...I'm kinda crazy with stuff like this so... lol

I mean... if we can come to an agreement almost to that ...if you don't care when it is and let the crazy people who do care try and place it... then uhh... don't go getting upset later if you don't agree with where it ends up...? Not that anyone has done this or not, but I could see that being a potential problem.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Personally, I would prefer a timeline that didn't make use of years and months. I think having to try and fit what are often fluid stories into that kind of framework is a logistical nightmare.

However... certain things I think we can establish from reading roleplays themselves.

From a personal point of view, I can establish that Life Day must take place after the Wheel has formed, because the Jedi and Alliance are there together, in numbers. Neither Serena Laran or Dasquian Belargic are present, so we can presume that the party takes place after Serena's capture / before her rescue, and after Dasquian's execution. On a minor note, I also know it takes place after the Battle of Bothawui because Charlotte Tur'enne and Dashiel Starborn are familiar with one another.

I wouldn't know exactly how many weeks/months are between each of these events, though.

[Tannis V'larr]

I don't think anyone is advocating a comprehensive timeline that includes every thread. Just a location for a few landmark events that affect everyone, or affect an entire RP group. Otherwise, we let the chips fall where they may.

I agree with Dasq that pinning things down to years and months can become stiflingly rigid for our brand of storytelling, at least when the stories are still in progress. Something like the Serena rescue takes longer to unfold in real time than it does in story time, and other threads will begin and end while the rescue is still going on. So, while in progress, I see the whole Serena arc as a floating piece of the timeline - while it's going on, we need only to specify whether threads take place before it or after it.

Once we're farther into the rescue such that it feels more like a past event than a future/present event, I think we can nail it down to a specific point on the timeline. From the discussion, it's looking like that has to be sometime after Life Day - sometime in the new year of 4 AE.

Miranda's coronation and the formation of the Wheel, however, are solidly in the past, and they are, similarly, game-changing events. Therefore, I think we absolutely need to locate them in the timeline just so we have some kind of structure, even for the most laid-back among us, to fill in.

I'd even be fine with just putting those events in order between the year marks.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I suppose its my fault for not reading Life Day. Someone put it in "Dec" 3 AE, and I knew it was with Rebels and Jedi so I figured it was after the Wheel was formed.

Also I knew that if I put all the "Wheel formed, Serena captured" things in 4 ae then I personally have a huge blank one IC year gap between all my RPs. So the solution is to move Life Day from where it is to a more central location in the year. (also I was fairly sure that was like a joke thread and not a 'real' thing that happened lol, but then like I said, I never read it)



Everyone knows what order their own RPs are in, right? The 'year/month' thing is just a framework for people to put their RPs in order and break up the year so the RPs listed aren't a huge block of text. The only purpose of the timeline was for people to put their own RPs into in order, and let other people do the same.

If all its doing is causing Jace to have a fit, then maybe we should just delete it and let people keep track of their own RPs on their own pages, like we used to. I thought a more comprehensive and conglomerated approach would be fun, but apparently it isn't anymore. *sigh*

But then, its been around for 6 years and never had this sort of controversy before.

[Captain Untouchable]

I would quote for emphasis, were I able to do so from my phone. <br><br> I /we have been advocating something relatively vague all along. I still think pinning down the year will help, but no need to be more specific than that... Provided that the threads important enough for the timeline are on there, and in order. <br><br> Since so many of you are fairly relaxed about it, how about the We Who Care work it out and get a list or page or something sorted? Then we'll have something specific to yay or nay.

[Captain Untouchable]

With respect, Holly, it's not just me having problems. I'm just trying to help out those who are. Thanks for placing blame soley on my shoulders, though. :(

[Corell Capstan]

If this is supposed to be a group discussion about how best to structure the timeline, where are these other people who are having issues with it? Wouldn't their input into this thread be invaluable, if they are the people who are affected by it??

[Lilaena De'Ville]

:p you're an easy scapegoat!

And pinning down the year of what? Serena's rescue? Middle of 4 AE. The Jedi leaving Cloud City and forming the Wheel? End of 3 AE. Challenger arriving? Before Serena's rescue.

*gasp* I'm adding things to the wiki as I speak! Its amazing! No arguments! :p

[Lilaena De'Ville]

http://www.sw-fans.net/wiki/index.php?title=4_AE I hope this is helpful in the discussion. I am trying to place the Major Events in places where it makes at least a little sense.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Yes, continuity is an ugly bag of worms indeed. That timeframe is kind of what I was thinking, too, after reading the updated OOC thread. So, as I originally said, the action in all those upcoming threads surrounding Serena happens more or less back-to-back.

So, uh ... hrm... Well when the timeline gets updated on the wiki, my own personal history will be integrated something like this...

Prison Blues / The Chase Begins (Drin meets Morgan, and Morgan's unwritten escape)

... 3 months...
Miranda Tarkin's coronation
Echoes of a Past Life part 1

... a few more months to a year? ...
Various threads of the Wheel forming

Echoes of a Past Life part 2 (Drin escapes Stars End - also never finished sadly)
Getting Things In Order

... 1 month ...
Changing of the Guard (Council officially forms)
One's Not Enough
Imperial Entanglements
>> My crystal hunt thread that I'm hopeful to start soon

... next month...
An Overdue Call
Welcome to the Middle of Nowhere (Morgan arrives at the Wheel)

... etc

I have tried to add your RPs, Drin - there are larger 'gaps' than you've allowed for, however, because Morgan escaped from Stars End, then met Serena Laran on Nar Shaddaa around 6 months after the Battle of Endor. Then Drin doesn't escape for a few years, in 3 AE when the Wheel is formed near the end of that year.

I didn't add in the thread links either. ^_^; Feel free to move them around a bit of course! Just trying to be helpful.

[Captain Untouchable]

Jenny - have you not noticed people like Sarah or Andrew chiming in? I can't remember if Dee has too, but I know she's been trying to wrap her head around it. Did you not see the really confused and frustrated thread that Drin put up?<br><br> I'm sorry if my being vocal on the issue rubs people up the wrong way, but these are my friends. I want them stress free and having fun, so i've been pushing to get it sorted, for their benefit. <br><br> Please don't all treat me like the bad guy. :(

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Was what I put into the timeline helpful?

[Charlotte Tur'enne]

Was what I put into the timeline helpful?

yes! :D

Sorry if this is causing a headache for people... I just like time lines. :(

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I like them too, that's why I started it in the first place. That's right, its my fault! *ducks the tomatoes and rotten cabbages*

I just think that over-talking the situation isn't helpful. Just get in there and move stuff around. ;)

[Dai]

http://www.sw-fans.net/wiki/index.php?title=4_AE I hope this is helpful in the discussion. I am trying to place the Major Events in places where it makes at least a little sense.

I love you.