The Ultimate Question!!! [Archive]

Eragon_Dushall

Jul 15th, 2010, 09:17:27 AM

Okay... I ask this question where ever I go and I will start out by saying I am a fan of both genres. But... If there was a space battle between the Federation and the Empire who would win? What are the pros and cons between both sides. Hopefully some of the people here will be able to give me more then a "Star wars because I hate star trek.

Dasquian Belargic

Jul 15th, 2010, 09:31:47 AM

More importanty... Han Solo vs Captain Kirk. Who wins? :cool

Eragon_Dushall

Jul 15th, 2010, 09:37:04 AM

Oh... that's a good one. But i still would like the Federation vs Empire answered first then we can move on to that one. lol Personally I think they are on equal footing if they were each piloting a equivilent ship by themselves. I dont see Han working well with commanding a Capitol ship. He tends to Micromanage and that doesn't work on a large ship.

Back to my question... lol

Emelie Shadowstar

Jul 15th, 2010, 09:52:49 AM

More importanty... Han Solo vs Captain Kirk. Who wins? :cool

psh... the badass space pirate, of course.
...in my mind he somehow calls in reinforcement from a certain Captain Reynolds and somehow Han and Mal team up as "Badass-Three-Letter-Named-Captain-Squad"
...and then I die happy like a complete and total lame fangirl. :lol

*cough* anyway... as for the question at hand... uhh... no idea. I'm not sure... maybe the Federation as the Empire seemed to be able to be beaten by teddy bears and plucky teenagers. :P

The Original BuffJedi

Jul 15th, 2010, 10:22:11 AM

Generic answer:The Empire..easily!! Too much Firepower

Dasquian Belargic

Jul 15th, 2010, 11:02:43 AM

Eragon_Dushall

Jul 15th, 2010, 11:30:12 AM

Looks like their "too much firepower" wont even penetrate the shields! lol

They won just because of Darth Vader. lol Take him out of the picture and nothing will happen beside a SSD being destroyed by a ship a tenth of it's size. lol

Captain Untouchable

Jul 15th, 2010, 11:43:57 AM

Someone has to make the science-based answer...

Proton Torpedoes implies nuclear-ish weapons. Photon Torpedoes implies antimatter, so the latter would be considerably more powerful. Phasers particle weapons, which are more powerful than "lasers". And since the shields of a Star Destroyer get pummelled by lasers for about as long as a starship's shields hold up against Phasers, lord knows how they'd hold up against mere lasers; and even then, there's nothing to stop the Star Trek ship just beaming a bomb onboard.

Of course, one could make the counter-argument that (ignoring the new movie, where the CGI was done by ILM, so they made the Enterprise 2 km long o_o), most Star Trek ships are a few hundred meters, with a crew of a few hundred. Imperial ships are on the scale of thousands in both instances... more like going up against a Borg Cube in terms of scale. So while the Starfleet ship would survive with ease, it'd take them ages to destroy each single Imperial ship.

So yeah. In a one-on-one encounter, my money is on Star Trek, because of vastly superior tech. But if it comes down to fleet-on-fleet, Star Trek stands to be overwhelmed by sheer numbers.

Edit:

I should have watched Jenny's video first. :lol

Darth Callidus

Jul 15th, 2010, 12:22:00 PM

Lilaena De'Ville

Jul 15th, 2010, 12:32:55 PM

It should also be mentioned that if it came down to a ground war, the Empire wins hands down, as Trek has no troops. Or hardly any.

Sanya Tagge

Jul 15th, 2010, 12:33:55 PM

Red Shirts vs Stormtroopers

:lol

Emelie Shadowstar

Jul 15th, 2010, 12:44:03 PM

I think the Red Shirts may actually be safe since your average Storm Trooper can't hit anything. :lol

Sanya Tagge

Jul 15th, 2010, 12:47:49 PM

It's like an infinite paradox. One can't hit anything, the other is always hit... :cyduck

Malick Raine

Jul 15th, 2010, 01:02:30 PM

I have actually argue the Empire vs Federation many times. On sheer numbers the empire wins hands down and they would use those numbers because the empire is all about over run tatics.

Also because of size of the Imperial ships and the fact at least in the books the empire is not against using ramming tatics. (using the ship as a weapon it's self.). Throw Imperial sun crusher tech into the mix and the federation doesn't stand a chance. The thing is the empire had allot of tech they did not use against the rebels (simple because htey didn't need to and by the time they did they no longer had the funds or raw materials to mass produce it.)

Also there is another matter with the federation shields and that is (it could just be writer screw up) but solid matter can pass through the shields at times. So a proton torpedo which is a solid (nuc) with a plasma covering (if I remeber right) could be affective.

Not to mention gravity well generators as well and super weapons that the empire could use. Also the fact that the empire could use swarms of fighters (trek has fighters but they are not that affective and on sheer number would get wiped quick.)

On the federation side they have superior sheilding tech wich will for sure protect them from laser fire. There weapons can take down a ship easy enough but would have a hard time taking down let's say a death star 2 with ground based sheild generator and the federation is ill equiped to fight a ground war unless they make friends with the ewoks of course.

I always go with star wars in this agruement but then I am a fan boy.

Malick Raine

Jul 15th, 2010, 01:04:37 PM

I think the Red Shirts may actually be safe since your average Storm Trooper can't hit anything. :lol

lol in the movies but there is a series of books that state otherwise. All if it where the movie storm troopers I would suggest the empire used scorched earth tatics.

Han Solo vs Captain Kirk

New or old kirk? Old Kirk wouldn't stand a chance. New Kirk (the new star trek movie) it would be a dang good fight to see.

Lilaena De'Ville

Jul 15th, 2010, 02:34:53 PM

Two handed punch against the blaster shot from under the table? Han may get the drop on him. ;)

That's old Kirk though, I guess.

Captain Untouchable

Jul 15th, 2010, 03:15:54 PM

That Star Wars / Battlestar Galactica video is one of the coolest things, ever.

Can we get the Independents to build Battlestars please, so that sort of thing can actually happen? :ohno

Tear

Jul 15th, 2010, 03:21:32 PM

That Star Wars / Battlestar Galactica video is one of the coolest things, ever.

Can we get the Independents to build Battlestars please, so that sort of thing can actually happen? :ohno

:cyduck

Crusader

Jul 15th, 2010, 04:59:54 PM

Well I think the Empire has got an advantage that has not been mentioned here:

They have got a large fleet of fighters and bombers that do not have shields but the Federation ships are not used to this art of war. I am not sure how fast phasers are in targeting small fighter crafts but it is at least a good way to keep the Federation occupied.

Like all X-Wing pilots know it is a pain in the butt to deal with Tie Intercepters and Tie Advanceds.

Tie Bombers, Tie Fighters and Gunships might be easy targets but they are strong in numbers especially if they get in missile range.

Eragon_Dushall

Jul 15th, 2010, 06:19:07 PM

Federation has the Superior technology... All of the Empires tech was just a more powerful version based on what they already had.

You were right in saying that physical weapons have passed through the shielding on a federation starship but that was only after the shields were below a certain power level. Torpedoe's didn't really work on Federation shielding until the phasers lowered their power level. Since the Empire's Turbolasers wouldn't even put a scuff mark in their shielding their torpedoes would have no effect.

Super weapons wouldn't really matter in this case. I'm talking about a fleet on fleet battle or a ship on ship battle. Besides Gravity Well's are only good in keeping your enemy from escaping.

As far as the fighters I stand by the shielding. They are like a swarm of bees trying to attack the bee keeper in his mesh protection suit. They are just waiting for their death... lol. The Federation Fighters... the ones they do have are also equipped with shielding and would mop up whatever fighters weren't already destroyed by the ships phasers. For the fighters that are hard to target once they realized that they couldn't do anything towards the shielding they would leave them be and move forward.

I think that even in a fleet battle a fleet of Federation Ships will take down the Stardestroyers but that it would take forever. LOL Unless they do decide to beam bombs into the ships energy cores. lol

Karl Valten

Jul 15th, 2010, 06:32:43 PM

I still stand by the following:

<object width="640" height="385">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WbJ-y6BWfUc&hl=en_US&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></object>

Eragon_Dushall

Jul 15th, 2010, 06:47:36 PM

Oh My God!!!! That was Hilarious... "We got no warp core, we got no red shirts" LOL... Awesome

Peter McCoy

Jul 15th, 2010, 06:49:15 PM

My money would be on the Empire rather than the Federation based on the Kardashev scale, which ranks a civilisations level of technological advancement based on its energy consumption.

# Type I — a civilization that is able to harness all of the power available on a single planet.
# Type II — a civilization that is able to harness all of the power available from a single star.
# Type III — a civilization that is able to harness all of the power available from a single galaxy.

However this site (http://st-v-sw.net/STSWcompare.html) actually has an in-depth analysis and comparison of the Galactic Empire and the United Federation of Planets.

Crusader

Jul 16th, 2010, 04:52:08 AM

Oh and we have forgot to mention the always effective strategy:
"Ramming Speed!"

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RammingAlwaysWorks

The biggest torpedo is always the ship itself and the Empire has lot's of torpedos in a vast variety of seizes.

The Original BuffJedi

Jul 16th, 2010, 06:20:30 AM

The Empire also has the Death Star.

Crusader

Jul 16th, 2010, 06:30:03 AM

Fanboys discussed this matter before:

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hf7epo22OPw&hl=de_DE&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hf7epo22OPw&hl=de_DE&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Malick Raine

Jul 16th, 2010, 08:57:56 AM

Eragon_Dushall

Jul 16th, 2010, 12:55:00 PM

They aren't against the ramming technique but that strategy is always better against something the same size or bigger. Seeing as how the federation starships are way more maneuverable I don't think the empire would be able to catch one to ram.

Tannis V'larr

Jul 16th, 2010, 01:25:45 PM

I've always thought trying to combine the two was incredibly silly.

;)

Eragon_Dushall

Jul 16th, 2010, 02:11:35 PM

I've always thought trying to combine the two was incredibly silly.

Says the man with a Spoke Avatar on a Star Wars RP site.... Ironic? lol

Jamo Jakatta

Jul 16th, 2010, 02:16:32 PM

I make combining Star Trek and Star Wars look good :cool

Tannis V'larr

Jul 16th, 2010, 02:17:13 PM

Says the man with a Spoke Avatar on a Star Wars RP site.... Ironic? lol

You may be confused. Mr. Spoke is currently serving on the Wheel.

Again, ;)

Park Kraken

Jul 16th, 2010, 02:19:46 PM

Screw the Death Star. Sun Crusher ftw! Bye bye Earth and surrounding solar system!

The Original BuffJedi

Jul 16th, 2010, 02:22:55 PM

Screw the Death Star. Sun Crusher ftw! Bye bye Earth and surrounding solar system! :thumbup

Loklorien s'Ilancy

Jul 16th, 2010, 03:52:07 PM

Says the man with a Spoke Avatar on a Star Wars RP site.... Ironic? lol

You may be confused. Mr. Spoke is currently serving on the Wheel.

Again, ;)

I laughed waaay too hard at this.

I hereby nominate Kale for a Fett-ism of the Year award :D

Eragon_Dushall

Jul 16th, 2010, 04:56:41 PM

Darth Turbogeek

Jul 17th, 2010, 01:54:15 AM

Screw the Death Star. Sun Crusher ftw! Bye bye Earth and surrounding solar system!

The EU is the worst thing aside from TPM to have been inflicted on us.

Star Wars would win. And here is why.

a) You might see some videos around claiming Star Trek shields are immune to lasers and Star Wars uses lasers, right? WRONG, Star Wars uses particle weaponry - plasma. This has physical mass and energy, it is NOT A LASER. ST shields do get knocked down by plasma devices PLUS SW has much more powerful particle AND ray shields. Enterpise circles around pointlessly shooting until they get raped by a dozen Turbolasers

b) Power scale. The quoted and canon power of said weapons and shields are a factor of 10 to 100 MORE powerful on your average SD than your average Enterprise. So in other words, the blasts of a ST capital ships are barely at the level of a star fighter, while the average SD has enough firepower to take out a ST fleet.

c) Sex. ST nerds are disgusting fat geeks. SW has some at least vague attractive people that will eventually breed so the ST fan base will one day vanish and by default SW will win this fucking stupid argument that has been done to bloody death.

Yog

Jul 17th, 2010, 02:43:13 AM

^^ Pretty much this.

Even if you ignore numerical superiority and size of imperial ships, ST ships can't match the firepower.

A borg cube may give a fight though, because it assimilates.

Darth Turbogeek

Jul 17th, 2010, 06:45:50 AM

[quote=Yog;342452

A borg cube may give a fight though, because it assimilates.[/quote]

Not with the sheer firepower that makes the Borg vanish in a puff of their own now vapourised hides. If you dont have the power levels to resist the firepower, you are SOL wether or not you "adapt".

You cant for instance adapt to a left hook to your face by Mike Tyson if you are a child. No matter how much you train, you are still going down like a sack of shit. That's what SW weapons fire is like against ST technolgy - Mike Tyson hitting a 8 year old. It is literally that much of a power mismatch. So thence a Borg warfleet MIGHT try to assimilate or learn, it'll still get wiped out.

Allex Mcgraves

Jul 17th, 2010, 08:23:36 AM

All ST needs to win is an army of Tribbles!

I would like to see how imps handle that situation.

Sanis Prent

Jul 17th, 2010, 08:27:42 AM

I dunno, if we somehow validate that SW lasers are indeed a different animal (and I think there's good reason to suggest they are, even if they may be still shot for shot weaker than Star Trek weapons) A Borg Cube is enormous on the scale of Star Wars capital ships. Enormous, fast, massive amounts of firepower, and as said, the ability to quickly adapt (I don't think you can even modulate frequency on something like a particle weapon). There's also a lot of cubes out there.

So while I think it's certainly possible the Federation loses to the Empire, the Collective would be another terrifying story.