Thoughts on the Empire

[Droo]

I'm not sure how everyone feels with the current state of the Empire and its place on the roleplaying scene but, from the perspective of an outsider trying to work his way in, it doesn't strike me as being as cool as the Rebellion. This is an awful term to use, I understand, but if we look at this (http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20935) thread, and take into consideration the recent surge of activity the opposition has enjoyed thanks to the Wheel - well, in a purely out-of-character sense, the Rebels are winning.

This thought has troubled me since first discussing big story ideas with Jenny, because whenever we suggested the Rebellion giving the Empire something big to tackle, instead of the other way around, it always came down to the fact that there are more roleplayers in the Rebel's camp to deal with the bigger plots. I think it's time we thought about levelling the playing field.

Disclaimer: I may, in my extremely limited perspective of the Empire's roleplaying affairs, be completely wrong and this may also come across as highly presumptuous but if this is the case then at least my fears will be put to rest.

In my opinion, other than the rebellious antics of Shadow Squadron, the Empire as a group appears extraordinarily straight-laced, and doesn't seem to provide roleplayers with what I would describe as an inviting environment in which to start new characters. There is a great deal of regulation and a strong sense of propriety present due to the very nature of the Empire itself. I need to backtrack a second to clarify: this is not an OOC criticism of the OOC running of the group, but an OOC observation of the IC situation and how it may impact a roleplayer's OOC decision to take part, or not.

Now, I know we can't have an Empire with the same rustic, cozy appeal of the Rebellion, but I wonder what, if anything, can be done to increase the outward appeal of the group towards other roleplayers. First, we play to its strengths: the Empire is big, powerful, wealthy, and I think as a result, we should look at big, bold ideas and leave the filthy Rebels to their skulking underhanded tactics. But they do have the Jedi and, forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the Empire has any roleplaying equivalent to the sense of environment and community boasted by the Wheel.

Pressing on, the idea I had as a result of this long-winded chain of thought: an Imperial ground unit which would be fun to play without feeling like just another stormtrooper. Mighty generals of battle, a stormtrooper hero class, who give their orders on the front line, clad in great imposing armour characteristic of Imperial combat superiority - I'm thinking something along the lines of this (http://www.danscottart.com/Images/BASquad.jpg). They would be the elite of all Imperial ground forces, legends in their own right, acting almost independently of rigid Imperial structure with their own sense of society and rules, true gladiators hell bent on unleashing death and destruction in the name of the Empire. They'd need a badass name and a badass image but I think this is the sort of thing that would make people think twice before joining the pansy-ass Rebels.

So... am I making any sense at all? I've been in work all day and didn't get a good nights sleep so I'm not at my most articulate but to summarise: Rebels are popular. Empire needs a stronger sense of community. Badass space marines?

[Dasquian Belargic]

I think I understand what you're getting at.

What I feel, personally, can sometimes be a hurdle for the Empire is the sheer scale of it. The Empire encompasses so much of the galaxy, that - unlike the Wheel - it can feel as if characters are often throw at opposite ends of the universe, with their actions having little bearing on oneanother. The Rebellion and Jedi are a fairly organic unit, sharing resources and thus providing plenty of opportunities for characters to interact. There is nothing unbelievable about Navaria Tarkin hanging around with a pilot from Rogue Squadron, but there is something kind of farfetched about Miranda Tarkin socialising with the pilots of Shadow Squadron, if that makes sense?

I like the idea of having ground unit which people could sign up to. You could even broaden that to being a single barracks, where all characters would be stationed out of. Obviously it is just one of many barracks, but then at least you get the chance to build character relationships since everyone is in one place?

[Travis North]

Pressing on, the idea I had as a result of this long-winded chain of thought: an Imperial ground unit which would be fun to play without feeling like just another stormtrooper. Mighty generals of battle, a stormtrooper hero class, who give their orders on the front line, clad in great imposing armour characteristic of Imperial combat superiority - I'm thinking something along the lines of this (http://www.danscottart.com/Images/BASquad.jpg). They would be the elite of all Imperial ground forces, legends in their own right, acting almost independently of rigid Imperial structure with their own sense of society and rules, true gladiators hell bent on unleashing death and destruction in the name of the Empire. They'd need a badass name and a badass image but I think this is the sort of thing that would make people think twice before joining the pansy-ass Rebels.

I see 40K Marines every time I think of the Inquisitors.

Though I see what you mean... Have a chapter of space marine-esque Stormtroopers, akin to what we have with Shadow Squadron. Hmmm... Revive the Dark Trooper project, however instead of using droids opt for cybernetic enhancement and conditioning like the Clones way back in the day - Stormtroopers on steroids.

<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

[Captain Untouchable]

A big advantage of the Rebellion is that we're focussed. All of our SpecForce characters are currently part of the 5th Division. Most of our Fleeting characters are (to my knowledge) part of the Third Fleet. Most of our pilots are with The Wheel. Most of our planet-based action happens (again, to my knowledge) on Mon Calamari. The Rebellion is bigger than that, but we instead focus on providing a small selection of examples.

The Empire on the other hand has lots of Fleeters in radically different units, spread all over the place. We have lots of Moffs. We have a couple of carriers with PC Squadrons aboard. But within that, there is very little overlap. What if we tried to focus some of those activities together: start to group Fleet characters under common Admirals, headquarter them in the same Sectors to increase the possibility of interaction, etc.

If we can get a Moff, as many Fleeters as possible, Droo's elite Stormtroopers, Shadow Squadron, and the Kalidor all in the same place, then there will be a lot more potential for them to interact and cross over between stories; certainly more than the status quo, where they're at opposite ends of the galaxy.

- - -

Three possible focus-points spring to mind: not just because they're iconically Imperial, but also because there's a potential for them to be disputed; hotbeds of Rebel activity and GCW conflict; etc.

Obviously, one of our focuses is Coruscant. The Empress and her entorage is there. The headquarters for just about everything is there. Black Sun has a presence. The Inquisitors presumably have a facility, because that's where Serena is being held. So, Coruscant is a given as an obvious hub for high-ranking / political characters. But there are a couple of others tha spring to mind, too.

Part of the Bormea Sector is Corulag, which is home to one of the most prestigious branches of the Imperial Academy. However, did you know that the same sector is also home to Chandrila: one of the founders of the Rebel Alliance? The Sector is heavily fortified by the Empire, but there is still the threat of Rebel insertion to a degree... it's certainly a sector the Rebels are "interested in".

Out in the Outer Rim is the Seswenna Sector. It's current capital is Eriadu: a staunchly Imperial world, and the planet that Grand Moff Tarkin is from. There's also the Uvena system, home to the Shistavanens, which may need some subjugating. It has an extremely long border with the Brema Sector, home to Sullust, and a perfect venue for Fleeters to have skirmishes with the largely NPC fleet headquartered there.

- - -

Additional to that, the Chommell Sector, home to Naboo, has been another frequently-suggested site for GCW conflict. We've talked about establishing an active insurgency there; but what if, instead of it being a Rebel insurgency against the Galactic Empire, it was Imperial insurgents left behind after the planet's conquest by the Rebel Alliance? That would certainly give Imperial characters to play cool, rebellious characters, and it might be attractive to players just because of the sheer irony of being the polar opposite of the common stereotype.

[Tear]

You guys are both right. The Empire has been in steady decline since the reset. Why? I think there are three reasons.

1) It's members simply have nothing to do.
2) There is no common ground for Imperials to interact unlike the Rebels, who have the Wheel.
3) It's leading members are not active enough. Joining a ghost town isn't appealing.

What is there to do when you own nearly the entire galaxy and the only resistance can be squashed with little effort. There are no glorious campaigns for the Imperials to embark on. Nothing it's members can run back to their tree fort to discuss and plot. Obviously this is changing and could be very different right now with the rise of the Rebellion/Independents. But the Empire is too inactive to take advantage of the changes.

It's simply too big. Like Dasq said, and was emphasized by Droo's idea, there is no common ground for Imperial members to interact. Which is why I think the Inquisitors are so popular. They have a common place where they all come from, a reason for their characters to all play off or work with each other. Plus they're bad ass.

Adding a 'Band of Brothers' type scenario where you can interact with your brothers in arms is a step in the right direction. I really like and support the idea. But I think the Empire also needs a narrative "Wheel".

The Empire has always been gabby OOC, and then remained more or less separate IC. It's just the way things seemed to work within a military setting. Like Dasq said having Miranda come down to play with Shadow Squadron is a fun thought but, entirely out of the realm of realism. I'm not sure how we could change that but I'm open to suggestions.

Edit: Captain posted just before me with suggestions to my questions. How well done is that? Answering questions before they're asked. You da man Capt.

[Bette Davis]

Well, if the Empire needs a hub, maybe something along the lines of the battleline with the Independents? Or a orbital station where ships are launched from, or like the Kuat shipyards? Something that needs protecting and where a battlegroup (and our Imperial pilots) could be stationed mostly permanently.

[Droo]

Perhaps the Empire's narrative hub could be something story-driven, again I'm clinging to wakefulness here, but if there was an assassination attempt, or a number of assassination attempts on the Empress, she could be forced to lay low for a while off planet onboard an undisclosed star destroyer. Consequently, there would be a security boost to the ship, bringing in other ships to escort it and presumably Miranda's advisors would need to be with her, forming a little hub of politcal activity mingled with the presence of the likes of the Shadow Squadron pilots. It would be a temporary arrangement, lest it becomes another Wheel but perhaps arrangements could be made, a story tailored to keep these characters within close proximity of each other, the Empress's personal entourage.

I don't know, it sounds an awful lot like the Wheel... but the alternative would be a place on a planet and while politicians and inquisitors might be rather comfortable there, the likes of starfighter pilots, admirals, and troops simply wouldn't stick around. Unless there's an Imperial equivalent of Echo Base for some reason.

Edit:


Well, if the Empire needs a hub, maybe something along the lines of the battleline with the Independents? Or a orbital station where ships are launched from, or like the Kuat shipyards? Something that needs protecting and where a battlegroup (and our Imperial pilots) could be stationed mostly permanently.

There is always the Death Star. It wasn't destroyed, right? Maybe it's a big fat base of operations.

[Bette Davis]

It was disabled in battle and taken apart for scrap IIRC.

Political characters can always have an excuse to visit the 'front line' or the contested shipyards. They don't need to be 'stationed' there, like the Navy or Army elements might be.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

And of course my thought was with a specific fleet/group (Termagant and Kalidor, and whoever else has named ships) all together, then we can do battle with the Rebels together. Or the Independents.

[Dasquian Belargic]

I like the idea of the Empires forces at the edge of Imperial territory. The original plan behind the Kalidor was to post them at the fringes of occupied territory, dealing with minor revolts and rebellions, whilst the real might of the Imperial Navy patrolled the inner rim and core.

[Tannis V'larr]

It was disabled in battle and taken apart for scrap IIRC.

That is a LOT of scrap. You could build hundreds of ISDs from it and still have a structure for a monstrous mobile battlestation lying underneath. Some enterprising Moff, or the Empress herself, could have requisitioned part of the Death Star II remains to repurpose for something else: a base of operations, a carrier for capital ships, maybe even the chassis of some new nasty superweapon...

It has the benefit of being the most powerful icon of the Empire that still exists in our new continuity. I think it could still be a great centerpiece for some new unit.

[Bette Davis]

Well, it all happened off camera, so... who knows what happened to it.

Maybe it IS being retrofitted as a station, not a superweapon. :p We can call it.... the LIFE STAR!

[Tannis V'larr]

Wherever it shoots, a planet appears!

Or would that be the Genesis torpedo?

[Captain Untouchable]

In terms of recycling, it sounds like a very environmentally conscious idea.

I dunno, though. Something about it just doesn't sit right with me. One of the concerns that people have been raising is that the Empire is "too powerful", and too infallable for anyone to really be under any kind of threat from the Rebels; it's no fun, if you're safe, etc.

I think the last thing we want to be doing right now is re-adding an insanely formidable space station, and making anyone aboard completely untouchable to any kind of Rebel interaction. >_<


...that said, if the Rebels ever get around to conquering Coruscant, it might make for a nice summer home. :mischief

[Lilaena De'Ville]

There are plenty of space station options as well, without having to use the Death Star II pieces to make one.

[Karl Valten]

Heheh, I like the Blood Angels picture. The Inqusitoriate has pretty much been 40k'd to death with the organization and mentality. Hell, every time I envision an Inquisitor in power armor, I see 'corrupt' version of the grey knights.

http://www.mi40k.com/wp-content/uploads/3021332988_33fedc9d03_o.jpg

I like the idea of Imperial super-soldiers, but how to make that a common ground theme that we can get a tight-knit group on without breaking any common sense rules (ridiculously overpowered).

Definitely agree about the Empire being to vast for individual characters to really connect (outside of small groups such as Project Nightmare and Hellfire Squadron). Back in the day having the Imperials fractured between 4 different factions really added to the intrigue and we got some great stories out of it (minus the annoying bickering that popped up every now and then).

Maybe that is something we might need to get a spark going? Have some group in the Empire come under suspicion. I really, really liked the threads that started up that had the Ministry of Intelligence and the Ministry of Truth investigating the Inquisition and attempting to have them shut down publicly. Seriously, I would definitely volunteer Valten as a black sheep.

[Travis North]

Y'know we could just from a Death Squadron (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Death_Squadron) fleet to hunt the Rebels.... again, just under a different name.

It would be an amalgamation of the Empire's Elite, most of the player characters who make up our Imperial faction. Options remain open for crews and individuals to explore the galaxy and combat the Alliance while also being part of a larger whole. Even the aristocracy could be involved as diplomats, leaders, and faces on the political scene.

It wouldn't limit players either from doing their own things, and for those of us who are come and go... Like me. (ALSO JOB INTERVIEW TOMORROW! YAY!!!)... We'd be able to idle aboard the fleet NPC'd doing whatever we do.

Drawbacks: Intense battles between "immortal" players, lots of NPC death and resource consumption to keep the 'real' feel. - Also, not really a drawback.
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

[Tear]

Y'know we could just from a Death Squadron (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Death_Squadron) fleet to hunt the Rebels.... again, just under a different name.
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

Oooo I like it. It's the Wheel but with an Imperial edge to it.

[Naomi Lang]

Oooooo, now this is an interesting idea. Me likey.

[Tarrick Ragnus]

That sounds interesting. A planetary invasion of a border planet would incorporate all aspects of the fleet - fleeters, pilots, troops, special ops. Then the political types can weave their web of lies and deceit about how the Empire had another planet join their ranks.

To get past the "too big and spread out feel" of the Empire, maybe we should condense our area of active operations to an area of contested space, leaving the stable sectors alone. That would bring us all together in close proximity.

[Captain Untouchable]

In principle, I think it's a great idea.

Is it like an Imperial version of the Wheel, though?

It seems like the purpose of the Wheel is getting misconstrued a little bit; it seems like you're percieving it as a mobile hub where Rebel characters can come together and interact. On the contrary, that's far from the case.

The Wheel is effectively a mobile Jedi Temple, for lack of a better comparison. The only Rebels present are a couple of ships and a couple of Squadrons. The concentration of PCs in the Wheel is purely a byproduct of the fact that our fighter pilots happen to play in the elite squadrons, and the Rebels wanted the best of the best of the best to help the Jedi.

There are no ground forces in the Wheel, save for what scant compliment the three defensive ships (a Venator, an MC40a, and a Nebulon-B) have aboard. And for the most part, the entire remainder of the Rebel Alliance doesn't even know it exists: it is a secret convoy.

Heck, it isn't even a Rebel convoy. It is part of the Jedi faction; we just happen to have some very enthusiastic, very active Rebels watching their backs.


That may sound like an overly obnoxious and trivial nitpick, but I think it's something to bear in mind. Were we to create a Death Squadron analogue, it wouldn't be the Imperial version of the Wheel. For starters, there would be no "civilians" with whom to interact, but worse: a definate purpose would be difficult to find.

There are no Rebel bases to find: we know exactly where they are. Unfortunately, destroying them is a bad idea at this stage: if we were to take out the scant handful of planets that the Rebels controlled, it would force the Rebellion to scatter back into the guerrilla force that they were so proficient at being. It may sound counter-intuative, but things are better for the Imperials this way.

The Rebels aren't likely to come to us, either: we would be far too formidable a force. And with nothing to find, and nothing to protect, what does that make us? In terms of in character reasoning, what advantages are there to the Imperials putting all of their elite eggs in one basket, and then flying said basket aimlessly around the galaxy until something to do pops up?


Appologies - that was a lot longer and more negative than I intended. >_<


Edit:


To get past the "too big and spread out feel" of the Empire, maybe we should condense our area of active operations to an area of contested space, leaving the stable sectors alone. That would bring us all together in close proximity.

Is that not pretty much what I suggested earlier, with Seswanna et al? :huh

[Tarrick Ragnus]

Yeah, I was agreeing with you. They were good ideas.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Doctor Jesus Terrible, you and I should talk concerning the supersoldiers. I fully admit it's mostly my fault for letting that one fall to the wayside, but I'm aiming to fix that.

And Esalis will love some backstabbing and conniving.

[Bette Davis]

The fact is we just need people to start more threads where Imperials can interact.

So, I did. :mneh

[Travis North]

In principle, I think it's a great idea.

Is it like an Imperial version of the Wheel, though?

It seems like the purpose of the Wheel is getting misconstrued a little bit; it seems like you're percieving it as a mobile hub where Rebel characters can come together and interact. On the contrary, that's far from the case.

Negative, by no means is this to be a mirror of the Wheel. The Death Squadron idea is exactly what the misperception of the Wheel is, a mobile hub. I admit it is a similar plot devise like the Wheel in that the intention is to bring player characters together, however it is strictly Imperial in design and execution.

The idea being that our Death Squadron analogue would be the new Fist of the Empire. It is not a super weapon, and it is not the driving force of the Empire. It is simply the platform by which the Imperial faction will face the Alliance faction. Essentially we'd be on even ground to interact as player characters in a greater evolving story arc.

The Empire and in this case the Galaxy is vast, far to vast for all of us to do our own thing yet interact in concert with one another. This line drawing era which we have become accustomed to should end, and both faction's should face each other in the brutal head to head confrontations which are all out War. As I see it both sides have equal resources at their disposal relative to how much territory each faction holds and must police. For example it would be far easier for an Alliance task force to assemble than an Imperial one due to the fact the Imperials have so much space to be policed, yet given time, an equal force would be met and we end with the usual stalemate/I'll take this, you take that.

Essentially this idea is turning the table around and flipping it. Where the Alliance is the usual liberator, instead they will be the defender and enforcer as a new highly organized, yet small and modular foe enters the field of battle in a campaign actively seeking the heads of the Alliance. No all out planet conquering, just inquiries, minor engagements, and a good old 'damnit they evacuated Hoth just as we got here' kind of roleplay, one you know Empress Tarkin will not be pleased with as she reads the report.

The Death Squadron isn't the Anti-Wheel, as much as it is the Anti-Rebel Alliance.

Now, does that clear things up. Alliance players shouldn't be to riled up about it as much as they should just be on their toes. And for the Imperials this is more of a call to arms than it is the next operation to come out of Strategic Command. (Edit: It's coming out of the Barracks, which is nice for a change.)

Questions, Comments, and Star Wars accepted.





<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden"><input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

[Byl Laprovik]

(Charley here)

I'd love to see a Death Squadron sort of RP vehicle. Something finite enough to concieve of the boundaries and act within on a character level, but "big" enough to get into some semi-large scale action. You could almost have a "Space Above and Beyond" aspect to it, where there's always a good element of capital ship action, fighter action, ground action, but everything still feels close quarters and very character-driven.

Something like 4-10 capital warships and the folks who are either aboard them, or with a vested interest in them.

I would create a character for that, if you did it. Please do it :)

[Byl Laprovik]

Also, it would be really fucking awesome to see some kind of character rift between hard-line Imperial folk and maybe the sort of people who are in the service "for the college money", so to speak. People that are doing service rendered but aren't ideologically married to the Empire and who may come to very-rightly question the shitty things the Empire's mucked up into. I think that alone would prove a vast trove of fodder for all kinds of intra-flotilla roleplays.

[Kelly Perris]

Sort of like... say, the 'we paid for your university education, so you serve 'x' number of years' deal, for some of them? The number of years served, of course, dependant on the number of years of education subsidized by the Empire?

That makes sense. Subsidized education towards a military occupation is a very present program in the Canadian military - not certain about the US, but it works. I'd go for something like this, for sure.

As well as what Chuck said, too. :)

[Captain Untouchable]

Negative, by no means is this to be a mirror of the Wheel. The Death Squadron idea is exactly what the misperception of the Wheel is, a mobile hub.

Then I'm worried that it won't work the way people are hoping. :(

Just think about it for a minute. You're advocating a purely military formation of a dozen or so ships, that is constantly on the move, with no home base. At what point within that does the social interaction between characters on different ships take place? It's not like you can just hop in a shuttle and pop over to the neighbouring Star Destroyer for a barbeque and drinks.

As an exercise in pure, military roleplaying, it's an awesome idea. As a vehicle for providing as much access as possible to big stories for as many people as possible, it's fantastic. Charley already gave a bunch of suggestions for the types of ways it could be used for creative storytelling.

As an excuse to let people interact and "hang out" - which seems to be the most popular aspect of the Wheel, from what has been said - I'm not sure it will live up to it's potential. Hence my suggestion of picking a sector, rather than being mobile: at least then we (quite literally) have some common ground upon which all the units can meet.

:\

[Karl Valten]

Doctor Jesus Terrible, you and I should talk concerning the supersoldiers. I fully admit it's mostly my fault for letting that one fall to the wayside, but I'm aiming to fix that.

And Esalis will love some backstabbing and conniving.

Aye Aye. Next time I'm on AIM after work I'll flag you down.

[Droo]

I've had all day to mull over these ideas in work and thankfully I'm not the drowsy mess I was yesterday.

First of all, I think we have to be very careful not to create another Wheel for the Empire. It just wouldn't work because the Empire is everything the Rebels are not. And, as Cap mentioned, as awesome as the Death Squadron idea is from an in-character perspective, realistically it couldn't offer the same sense of community as the Wheel simply because it would be an effecient military hunting machine. Breaking it down to the absolute basics, in terms of location we have somewhere on a planet or somewhere in space, either stationary or mobile. If it is mobile and in space and military, it won't really work. If it is in a base on the ground somewhere, it's a bit limited in that you have to wonder: who would visit and why?

I think some sort of outpost or space station on the border of contested territory would support this role very well indeed. A place where capital ships and civillian ships alike can dock for refueling and maintenance, somewhere the high-ranking officers can rub shoulders with grunts or any kind of Imperial-friendly scum-of-the-galaxy, a secure site for important meetings to take place far away from the comfort of Coruscant, but most importantly, a place where every manner of far-flung Imperial character can interact, develop relationships, and establish stories together.

It would be the Empire's Deep Space Nine to the Rebellion's Galactica Fleet.

[Anbira Hicchoru]

What about a Casablanca sort of situation? Common world, ostensibly neutral with imps and Rebs alike?

[Dasquian Belargic]

We already technically have that with Cloud City.

I like the idea of an Imperial space station though, that could act as a base of operations for all kinds of stuff.

[Travis North]

It would be the Empire's Deep Space Nine to the Rebellion's Galactica Fleet.

Quoted for Greatness. BAM! (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jovan_Station)

The station would work, it'd lose a bit of it's badassery due to the fact that it's just a station and sitting duck in the void. DS9 at least had a wormhole to keep things interesting. I'm sure someone will come up with a range of good ideas though.

Yet, since I hate scraping the great idea of a roving fleet hunting for the heads of the Alliance... (I am a fleeter after all.) I'm probably still gonna do it for reasons of just plain awesome, and those who want to work on such a project are welcome. I will dedicate time to the station idea of course and may just use the fleet as a peripheral devise.
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

[Tannis V'larr]

Hmm, I'm starting to like Droo's concept.

Such a base will have capital ships assigned to its defense, and also to act as an arm of Imperial influence from that central hub. It'll occasionally see larger invasion fleets passing through, true, but we could still have a limited group, much less impressive than our Death Fleet idea, that would still give us at least some of the same sense of mobility.

Also, that means there could even be missions by the Rebels or Jedi sneaking onto the base for one reason or another. Not Casablanca, but something more like a town in Nazi-occupied France.

[Captain Untouchable]

You sold me with "Deep Space Nine" there, Droo.

I still think it would be advantageous to pick a sector to hang out in, just so we can have the other aspects around, too. But to stretch the DS9 parallel further, said planet could be the Bajor in our scenario - in the same system as the station, sure; but not necessarily the focal point for the Imperial characters. Any Moffs and dignitories from the planet could visit the station (or rarely, the plot could shift to the planet); any pilots could get drunk in the station bar; and so on.

In terms of a neutral location, the Bormea Sector also contains Brentaal (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Brentaal), with it's Sel Zonn Station (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sel_Zonn_Station) - the Babylon 5 to the alternative Deep Space Nine - that is pretty much a neutral site. Or at least, as neutral as it gets in Imperial space.


What if we did all of the above?

a) Focus the top-end political stories on Coruscant, as is already being done. Imptel is there; there's an ISB team there; the Inquisitors go there; the Moffs do; the Empress is there; all that jazz.

b) Use the Bormea Sector - and in particular, Corulag - as the IC representation of our "Imperial Academy" thread. That gives it a nice definate location: and we have Chandrila and Brentaal to add some Rebel and Neutral flavour, so that would be our "interaction with people from other factions" hub, potentially.

c) In the Eriadu system in the Sesswana Sector, establish our Deep Space Nine station. Eriadu itself would be our Bajor; and heck, we've even got the Rebel-controlled space around Sullust acting as our ominous parallel to Cardassia, for skirmishes and what-not. Since it's Outer Rim, some of the battered, older ships like the Kalidor could operate out in this corner of space, and call in to port for supplies, allowing the pilots there to interact with other Imperials without having to be part of a larger unit.

d) Establish the mobile, roaming Death Squadron with all the elite units and fleeters, as described in all it's awesome glory. The Hydian Way links b) and c) together nicely, so the Death Squadron can travel back and forth between the two - and to elsewhere. Docking at Eriadu would allow interactions between the Shadows and Bloodfins; docking at Corulag would let new fleeters join in. If you go a little further out along the Hydian Way or the Rimma Trade Route (which cross each other at Eriadu), there's a shipyard at Sluis Van. And, that whole route is bound to be rife with both NPC and PC Imperial activity.


So, to paraphrase:

A) Coruscant stays as it is.

B) The "Imperial Academy" forum gains an official in-character location at Corulag, and is expanded a little to give non-Cadet characters more reasons to go there.

C) We establish a space station (as suggested by Droo) in the Eriadu system (as suggested by me).

D) We establish the Death Squadron (as suggested by Travis, and expanded upon by others, and approved by all), and have it regularly visit Eriadu and Corulag, to make sure everyone gets as much opportunity as possible to interact with everyone else.


Does that sound like a reasonable approach / compromise that satisfies all the angles? There have been so many good ideas thrown around that it seems a shame to waste any of them. :)


Edit:

The Goridan Reach (where the bam-referenced Javin is, if memory serves) is a potential alternative to the Sesswana Sector. The only downside is that it puts us in the midsts of the Independents, rather than mixing us in with the Rebel Alliance. That's not a negative per se, but we would loose a certain degree of the traditional Rebel vs Imperial aspect of the Galactic Civil War if we were based there.

[Tannis V'larr]

All of the above sounds like a great idea if we had a large and active Imperial contingent. I realize we're trying to bring more activity to the Empire, but it seems to me the best way to do that is to start with one compelling location and build from there.

The station is still going to have some kind of fleet assigned to it (probably more like a group of one or two ISDs and support ships). If, as a fighter pilot, I'm assigned to the station, I can still join that group on sorties from the station to outlying systems. If, however, I'm assigned to the Death Squad, I only have access to the station occasionally.

I think the station offers so many dynamic opportunities that it really can encompass all the others (except for the political stuff that still happens on Coruscant, obviously).

If anyone wants to do some academy action on the side, that would be perfectly fine, too. It's just a question of where we want to concentrate our characters.

[Travis North]

Javin station was just ment to be a visual, I was leaning more towards expansion into the OR with the station idea, thus allowing more independents and Alliance infiltrators into the mix.

Death Squadron becomes the main expansionist fleet to keep things orderly as the colonization process begins. Droo's Super Troopers get to be the shock troopers in new alien environments, pilots get to do their thing, and Corulag and the other academies pump fresh cadets (hopefully new recuits OOC) to Eriadu where they are assigned to a new ship to conquer new worlds.

Damn... Thats brilliant if I do say so myself. Plus the Alliance could start a similar intiative or work to undermine this one.

Since it's new characters and new planets, creativity goes through the roof, and the old guard should be content that the war is still in full swing, just in a different direction.

Edit: Not to mention a whole new realm of politics. SNAP!
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden"><input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

[Captain Untouchable]

We want to have some sort of fleet, at any rate. We want to have elite units in that fleet. And we want to have common turf for people to interact. What if, for now, we establish both, and have the Death Squadron use the station as it's "base of operations", heading back there between missions, etc?

If we find that the Death Squadron is spending too much time away from the station, we can keep the discussion ongoing, and angle towards spending more time "at base", as a more routine sector fleet. Alternatively, if we're coping fine with the more mobile aspect, we can take a few more steps in that direction, and what not.

As long as we keep an eye on how things are going, the core principles of the ideas should be relatively easy to adapt and fit with what we want to do.

[Travis North]

First things first. Coruscant: The politicians need to get the ball rolling within the Imperial hierarchy, and the recruitment campaign underway for this next generation of Imperial citizens.

Unlike the history of our current Galaxy this isn't the colonization of one world by another, but more the colonization of entire sectors by a galactic body. Which does put the squeeze on non-humans looking to escape from Imperialist views. The Alliance would see an increase in numbers making them a contender in expansion and reclamation on the home front.

(This train of thought is amazing. Ideas... So many good ideas.)

HMS Majestic could even do more than tour Imperial Center Oversector. That mental image alone is spectacular. Thanks to Karl for finding this gem!

http://fc03.deviantart.com/fs21/i/2007/290/5/5/Battlecruiser_by_grinningcat83.jpg
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

[Tarrick Ragnus]

I love the ideas. I applauded the self-proclaimed brilliancy and awesomenessry claimed above.

[Dasquian Belargic]

First things first. Coruscant: The politicians need to get the ball rolling within the Imperial hierarchy, and the recruitment campaign underway for this next generation of Imperial citizens.

Sanya can help with this, as propaganda bitch!

[Travis North]

I love the ideas. I applauded the self-proclaimed brilliancy and awesomenessry claimed above.

There's a reason I had damn jeenius written under my CT back in the old days.

<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I like this train of thought. :thumbup I'm on board!

[Captain Untouchable]

First things first. Coruscant: The politicians need to get the ball rolling within the Imperial hierarchy, and the recruitment campaign underway for this next generation of Imperial citizens.

Unlike the history of our current Galaxy this isn't the colonization of one world by another, but more the colonization of entire sectors by a galactic body. Which does put the squeeze on non-humans looking to escape from Imperialist views. The Alliance would see an increase in numbers making them a contender in expansion and reclamation on the home front.

(This train of thought is amazing. Ideas... So many good ideas.)

HMS Majestic could even do more than tour Imperial Center Oversector. That mental image alone is spectacular. Thanks to Karl for finding this gem!

So... rather than doing something to actually increase activity for the specifically indicated players, we're instead going to focus on a purely political story that's only going to encompass a mere fraction of our players? :cyduck

Its a fab idea. I'm just not sure that it's a "first thing's first" scenario - we need to be getting on with actually upping the participation level for existing players pretty swiftly, too. Unless you're just saying "first", because it was first on the list?

[Travis North]

So... rather than doing something to actually increase activity for the specifically indicated players, we're instead going to focus on a purely political story that's only going to encompass a mere fraction of our players? :cyduck

Its a fab idea. I'm just not sure that it's a "first thing's first" scenario - we need to be getting on with actually upping the participation level for existing players pretty swiftly, too. Unless you're just saying "first", because it was first on the list?

This was first on the priority list because, in my opinion, it's the only logical story seed that could hope to encompass more than a "mere fraction" of the player base. I'm talking about an Epic Scale colonization effort, not a few shuttles of refugees and prefab shelters. Trillions of people, titanic amounts of hard credit and physical resources; there'll be opportunities for everyone to get involved, not just in a "fleet" capacity, but in more character driven ways - and I'm pretty sure there isn't a player here who isn't up to the challenge. Just think of it like Serenity or Firefly, but with ISDs.

[Captain Untouchable]

How will there be opportunities for everyone to get involved?

I fail to see how a large project like this provides a better opportunity - for Fleeters, and the pilots of Shadow Squadron in particular - to "get involved". Surely, the simple act of assigning these characters to a space station - which we can say has already been built - in a system and sector that we already control, is a matter of a few simple threads? It may not encompass everyone, but it'll at least get the ball rolling, the momentum going, etc.

Should we not do the quickest, most immediately achievable thing first, to light a fire underneath the players and stir up some activity before we look into larger projects? Once we've got people back into the swing of posting, we can worry about plot arcs to do with colonization then, surely?

I'm sorry, but I really don't see your logic as to why this the best, "first" option.

[Cael Bathala]

Travis' idea could provide the premable for stuff like the Shadows being reshuffled. Without actually having to roleplay out the whole political side before things are started, we could have a simple intro in the forum of a decree for the Imperial government... and then segue that into, hey guys here's your new space station, you heard the Empress, get to your duty.

Then, if the political types wanted to do some behind the scenes exposition they could, but regardles of that the military people would still be able to start gnawing at the meat of the story?

[Travis North]

Totally, the military folks will have plenty of opportunities for action, this just gives it all a "story arc" to fall under. It's open to the community to boot, nobody really needs to feel excluded.

This fist stage is merely the opening scroll fading into the backdrop of our adventures to be had. I'm talking about a community wide arc. IC history would have it written Year 1 ITE (Imperial Tarkin Era) This'll be huge.

[Captain Untouchable]

If done the way Cael suggests , and is just an excuse to get the wheels in motion, then sure: I can get behind that. But Travis seems to be implying that all of the Imperials will able to get involved in the actual colonisation aspect itself, though - hence my confusion. Is there really that much scope? Surely, once you've done one colonization thread, scouted one system, fought off one set of pirates... you've done 'em all?

Also, doesn't making the Empire bigger go against what we're angling before with the Big Story? :huh

[Lilaena De'Ville]

http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14709 I thought I'd just point out that our good Empress, may she live forever and never get a grey hair, has already been involved in Shadow Squadron's shenanigans. :mischief

Super Troopers (lol that movie) - check
Space Station - check
Characters mingling - lets do it!

I'm in favor of what we did with the Wheel - we all just BE there rather than doing a thread or three trying to get us all there. Work out the details OOC and use them IC for backstory. :)

[Karl Valten]

There's a reason I had damn jeenius written under my CT back in the old days.
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

I miss my wrench.

[Tannis V'larr]

I'm not sure I even understand what you're proposing. Are you saying we shift our focus from the political and tactical complexity of a frontline base in the Civil War and instead colonize uncharted territory?

I mean, if you want to do a colonization arc, you can. But surely that's, at best, an aside from the conflict between the Rebellion and the Empire that I thought we all wanted to make the centerpiece of our storylines?

You mentioned moving trillions of citizens and displacing aliens who want to remove themselves from Imperial polity. Are people interested in playing colonists or displaced aliens? You mentioned planets joining the Rebels' cause in protest. Are we playing the Alliance council members now? Are we going to invest in developing a dozen or so new planets as locations of interest, whether they're new colonies or new Alliance members?

Please forgive me if I sound petulant, but this seems like a playground for the politicians alone. What compels me about the station idea is the opportunity to throw a variety of characters against each other. It's the fact that it's a small focal point in a huge galactic theater that allows for deep storytelling. Travis North's idea seems to be going in a very different direction.

Just, please tell me we're talking about two separate ideas. What made the station interesting was that it was a beachhead in contested space, not that it was on the frontier. If Shadow Squadron is going to be part of an exploration force in deep space, or a colony ship escort, I'm going to have to find something else to do.

[Bette Davis]

Yeah I'm confused too - I like the DS9 idea of the space station with ships and people being assigned there and some coming and going.

The colonization thing is a bit too ... huge in scope and doesn't fit what we are looking for, imo.

[Travis North]

Not trying to toss out the frontline end of things, I just feel that it'd be to the community's benefit to provide some sort of background plot that has a larger scope of effect than the limited geography of the station. The station is a fantastic place for hanging up your helmet and having a highly detailed, thoroughly realized environment, the colony effort simply gives the station residents places to go and things to do outside of the frontline. Just think of it as adding some ST: Voyager to the ST: DS9; the "main stage" is still the frontline station, likely at or near Bakura, but the opportunity for "location shots" is much better with the addition of some logical motivation to go places outside of the local system.

[Acacius Blade]

To have conflict right off the bat with the station idea - how about the station is an Imperial outpost/space station previously under Rebel occupation and has recently been reclaimed by the Empire. Naturally the civilians under its rule would have gotten used to the way the Rebels ran things, so you've got disgruntled civvies moaning about the return of the Imps. There's also the loyalists who are glad to see their own government back in the driving seat, letting slip what's been going on while the Alliance was running things, divulging snippets of intel.

And then there's the Rebel retaliation - surely they'll try to re-take it, infiltrate it etc. but never destroy it as there's innocent lives on-board, so it has an element of stability in that it's not really at risk of destruction - unlike a ship or fleet.

EDIT: At least not at risk from the Alliance - but pirates and other nasty fringeworld yokels,...perhaps!

[Bette Davis]

To have conflict right off the bat with the station idea - how about the station is an Imperial outpost/space station previously under Rebel occupation and has recently been reclaimed by the Empire. Naturally the civilians under its rule would have gotten used to the way the Rebels ran things, so you've got disgruntled civvies moaning about the return of the Imps. There's also the loyalists who are glad to see their own government back in the driving seat, letting slip what's been going on while the Alliance was running things, divulging snippets of intel.

And then there's the Rebel retaliation - surely they'll try to re-take it, infiltrate it etc. but never destroy it as there's innocent lives on-board, so it has an element of stability in that it's not really at risk of destruction - unlike a ship or fleet.

I LOVE this idea.

And Travis, I think the colonization thing is a nice idea, but not a fantastic one. I think we should stick to the main 'rebels vs. empire' conflict and not toss a million or so displaced citizens into the mix and make this overly complicated.

Contested station now back in the hands of the Empire, being used as a launching point for sorties with the Rebels. There isn't a need to invent a big plot 'excuse' for it, there already is one in place.

p.s.Peter, thinking about ever RPing as Todd Marr anymore?

[Tannis V'larr]

EDIT: Obviously there's a lot of interest being generated with all the people posting at the same time! :)

I think we're dealing with two very different models of roleplaying. One group wants epic fleet movements and complex political scheming, and to play the powerful individuals who reshape the face of the galaxy. Another group wants gritty, nuanced character interaction on a very personal scale, where the motivations and choices of individual characters drive the story. If you try to combine them, all of us "little people" will be lost in the huge distances separating fleets and star systems.

If that is the direction that some people are going, then the rest of us will have the station, and the fleeters can pass through on their way to their strategic objectives.

Which, I now see, has been covered by posts before me, so I'll leave it there. I believe I've said what I needed to say. Bette's summary I think, succinctly expresses what we're looking for in this new setting.

[Travis North]

Perhaps I have gone off on a tangent. The flow of creativity with the present idea floating has allowed an opening into the UR, something I've always wanted the Empire to do, as its a perfectly good place to launch player based creations and express a bit more creative freedom. Damn the Trek references but it is undiscovered country. I'll put this idea on the back burner and focus on what we've got.

[Droo]

I don't see why your idea can't still go ahead but it is much more of a slow-burning larger scale plot you have on your hands that can be roleplayed before, during, after characters have established themselves on this space station - and then you are at absolute liberty to include such a location in these grand designs in whatever way you wish. :)

[Miranda Tarkin]

I am eagerly reading this thread and amicable to be wherever as long as it makes sense. I do actually get a more B5 vibe from the station - political it begins but I can see it turning more into a military base even with citizens involvement depending on how the war goes.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

I know that when I was proposing Cloud City to have its' own forum, I was hoping that it'd turn into a very DS9/B5 type of place for us. Is there a way to maybe do a thread that entails pulling CC fully into Imperial control and taking it over, essentially?

Like, once it was discovered that the Jedi had been using it, the Empire decided that it was time to bring it into the fold and bring down the fist of law? We've already been writing that CC had been compromised as a Jedi sanctuary of sorts, so that much is done for us.

Seems like it'd be a fun thread where the Empire shows up and basically says 'That's enough, you useless lot. Time to start acting like lawful citizens.'

Course that's just a thought I had when I read that folks had an interest in a sort of DS9/B5 setup. Since I'd originally envisioned CC to be that, seems like a possible avenue to explore if there's interest enough in it.

[Tannis V'larr]

It's a great location, but it can't really be a naval base, unless we invent a station in orbit of Bespin. Which we could do. We could even make it a Skyhook with an elevator down to Cloud City.

Any interest in making Bespin the site of our fun little hub? I think it's a question of whether we want to work with material we already have established (and there's a lot there, including the Cloud 9 Bar & Grill and Sasseeri's criminal empire) or whether we want to create a new setting, perhaps with an ineffective Moff fretting over an unruly population. I'd be game for either.

Actually, with the forums already there, why the heck not go with Bespin? I'll cast my vote there! :)

[Bette Davis]

In favor of CC!

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Not to mention we might be able to streamline the forums a little more even; just consolidate the CC subforums into one and move them into their own spot on the Imperial forum; call the CC subforum 'The Imperial Protectorate of Cloud City' or some other overlord-ish name like that :p

[Travis North]

I like it. After all Tibanna gas has to go somehwere.

Its just a matter of not short changing those who play Independent characters at the local, though I guess they'd still hang around if it were purely a military seizure and control type occupation - only the gas matters. This makes sense considering Bespin is an outlier world. Operationally it would be asset procurement and denial. That's this Imperial mission statement. Discovering that it was of former use to run away Jedi could be the element which draws in members of the Inquisition specifically.
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden"><input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

[Tannis V'larr]

Oh, I can't imagine Sasseeri and company going quietly into the night. Heck, a savvy commandant will probably try to hook into her network and find a mutually beneficial arrangement. And the presence of Shadow and Hellfire Squadrons should provide plenty of business for bars and houses of ill repute.

Present company excepted, of course. ;)

EDIT: I just looked up Skyhooks on Wookieepedia. Apparently they're suspended by repulsors and sit within the planet's atmosphere, so they're not true space elevators, and not suitable as a naval base. I still kind of like the image of a station with a tether to the city - it's a powerful image of dominance, and it makes travel to and from the city easier. Also it would make for interesting dogfighting terrain.

[Sanis Prent]

I am totally in favor of Cloud City with a tangent space station alongside it. Very awesome venue.

[Aura Kolar]

We could just have the station in geosynchronous orbit above cloud city. As a constant reminder of Imperial Lordship over them.

[Tarrick Ragnus]

I'm all for having my 3 ships re-assigned to that area. Count me in.

[Acacius Blade]

I was initially not liking the idea of it being Cloud City since it's within an atmosphere and so capital ships incapable of atmospheric flight (ISD's for example) wouldn't be able to dock. But with a station in orbit of the gas giant, we've got the best of both worlds - fresh air as well as a gateway to the stars.

[Tannis V'larr]

I was thinking we could have a big fleet action thread to kick things off - Ragnus's battle group, plus whatever other ships are necessary to secure the system, can cruise in, blast away whatever resistance we find, and land troops and political officials to take control of the city. In the interest of speed, there could already be a space station in Bespin orbit suitable for our needs. We could capture it as well and then tow it into position above Cloud City, then set up a military governance there as well.

Officially, all space traffic to Cloud City must first pass through the station's security checkpoints. Of course, that's going to be impossible to enforce perfectly. A small ship could, potentially, jump into the system on the far side of the planet and ghost through the atmosphere where standard TIE patrols can't follow.

[Captain Untouchable]

I love the Cloud City idea: it certainly ticks most of the boxes that we've highlighted.

However, if we have a military outpost as well, then where is the excuse for the Shadows and what-not to actually find their way onto Cloud City itself? I'm sure such an Imperial station would have a bar, and frankly that's most of what these characters care about. :mneh

Seriously though, I think that might hamper our efforts to "get everyone in the same place". I'm sure it could be done, but would it be easier to forgo a full military station for now, and just leave the Star Destroyers "in orbit"? That would help add to the sense that this is a new arrangement, and something that has been improvised, rather than meticulously planned?

If we find that we need the military space station for some reason, we can always add it at a later date.

* * *

Long story short: if we're going to use Bespin and Cloud City, we should probably get a bead on the region of space we're in as well. Things are a bit inconsistant and squiffy, so I thought it might help to write a <s>brief</s> summation of how it all works.

The main source of confusion arises from the fact that this map (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090911072224/starwars/images/4/4b/Outer_Rim_Sectors.jpg) - based on the official resources of the EU authors - places Hoth and Bespin in a region labelled Javin; whereas they are in fact part of the Anoat Sector, not the Javin Sector.

This is easily rectified however, as this map (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080309023310/starwars/images/3/31/AnoatSectorMap.jpg) of the Greater Javin shows the Javin Sector, Anoat Sector, and Yarith Sector; and if you put the three together, the shape of the resulting Greater Javin is the same as the shape of Javin on The Essential Atlas map.

Here's said <s>brief</s> summary of what we have in our local neighbourhood, in terms of noteworthy planets:


Anoat Sector

The sector's administrative centre - and local Moff - is located on Gerrenthum (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gerrenthum), a heavily populated and poluted planet. The planet Kirtarkin (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kirtarkin) is the "gateway" to the sector if you're travelling the Corellian Trade Spine, and is described as a customs world. Mexeluine (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mexeluine) meanwhile is described as a "fat and happy" corporate world, and a major trade centre. Nothoiin (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Nothoiin) is the homeworld of the Nothoiin (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Nothoiin (species)) species, who use the planet Council (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Council (planet)) as the diplomatic hub for their Ione (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ione) is the planet from the beginning of Episode V, from which the probe droids were deployed.

The Ison Corridor connects several mining and industrial worlds, including Bespin (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bespin) and Hoth (url=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hoth). The planet Anoat (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Anoat) itself is on the corridor, but is barely habitable. Varonat (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Varonat) is a jungle planet, and the adopted homeworld of the Morodin.

The planet Bendeluum (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bendeluum) apparently has (or had) a Rebel Alliance cell located there. Also, Isis (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Isis) is supposedly a Rebel Alliance safeworld, though it is not used as such on Fans; Polmanar (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Polmanar) is also apparently a world under Rebel control ripe for reconquest by the Empire. Darlyn Boda (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darlyn Boda) is described as a "criminal trading planet", and is supposed to have a presence by the Rebel Alliance, as well as Black Sun and the Bounty Hunters' Guild.

Javin Sector

Javin (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Javin) is the administrative centre for the Javin Sector. Aztubek (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Aztubek) and Kumru (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kumru) are former worlds belonging to the Mugaari (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mugaari). Many of the Mugaari are now pirates, and are potentially the sorts of individuals likely to be plaguing the Ison Corridor.

Yaruth Sector

Isde Naha (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Isde Naha), located just over the southern border, is the administrative capital of the Yaruth Sector. The sector is also home to Lutrillia (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lutrillia): the homeworld of the Lutrillians (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lutrillian).

To summarize my summary:

In the interests of creating a Babylon 5 / Deep Space Nine sort of feel, we might want to look into how we can utilise the Lutrillians (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lutrillian), Mugaari (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mugaari), and Nothoiin (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Nothoiin (species)). Worlds that might be of particular interest to develop and explore to some degree would be Gerrenthum (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gerrenthum) (the sector capital), and Darlyn Boda (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darlyn Boda) (a hotbed of crime and Rebel activity).

[Dasquian Belargic]

This is getting complicated.

Can someone summarise what is it the Empire is planning to do? Will they be absorbing Cloud City?

[Captain Untouchable]

This is getting complicated.

Can someone summarise what is it the Empire is planning to do? Will they be absorbing Cloud City?

As I understand it, they would be "reinforcing the garrison on Cloud City", and "using the system as a staging post for patrols of the surrounding sector". Cloud City has - according to the information around Fans, at least - been under Imperial control the whole time, but the garrison is just corrupt and people are able to get away with stuff.

This would, presumably, fix that problem.

[Travis North]

That's about it.

All of Bespin's resources would fall under Imperial control. Cloud City and the other floating platforms would see an increase in security and oversight provided by the Imperials.

Localized distribution of Tibanna gas would be disrupted in the sector which in turn would anger several groups. Smuggling and piracy of Tibanna gas from Bespin would steadily increase as the Empire controls the distribution of the resource for its own purposes.

To combat criminals an increased military pressence would be needed, the Imperial orbital station. The station houses the Imperials, tends to the warships which patrol the region, and acts as the distribution/warehouse for the processed gas.

The Greater Javin would see an increased pressence overall of Imperial operations keeping things in the region civil... Which just means more confict with rebels and pirates.
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

[Captain Untouchable]

To combat criminals an increased military pressence would be needed, the Imperial orbital station. The station houses the Imperials, tends to the warships which patrol the region, and acts as the distribution/warehouse for the processed gas.

I'm still nervous about this, and not entirely sure why it's a) necessary, and b) a good idea.

If we have the station as well, are we not going to just turn Cloud City into "occupied territory", rather than a viable location for characters to get together and socialise? If Cloud City is our base as well, then the pilots hanging out there makes sense: when the Cardassians occupied Deep Space Nine (the second time) they still went for drinks in Quarks. But if we have a separate base... that's like having the US and UK forces hop on a bus to go for drinks in Basra, rather than socialising in their relatively secure base outside the city. :\

[Travis North]

I counter:

Would you let a military force live in a resort with casino hotels, bars left and right, angry civilians, and just about every other form of scum and villainy?

No, that's how the original garrison was corrupted in the first place.

Having a station in orbit where troops can interact with each other and say hey we've got downtime lets hit Cloud City for some good times is a better alternative, and that's from a military stand-point.

Remember, the Empire isn't the United Federation of Planets on some peace keeping mission either. We're brutal military oppressors in service to her Empress Miranda Tarkin. We're a highly organized and disciplined combat force, not radical freedom fighters blending in with civilians to hide our numbers.
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden"><input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

[Cael Bathala]

Frell yeah :cool:

[Lilaena De'Ville]

The station is there, we still get to play on Cloud City when we want. Makes sense to me. And we can all play together on the station if we want to as well. :thumbup

[Captain Untouchable]

Would you let a military force live in a resort with casino hotels, bars left and right, angry civilians, and just about every other form of scum and villainy?

No. I would let them live on their Star Destroyers, and have downtime on Cloud City as a reward.


Having a station in orbit where troops can interact with each other and say hey we've got downtime lets hit Cloud City for some good times is a better alternative, and that's from a military stand-point.

Remember, the Empire isn't the United Federation of Planets on some peace keeping mission either. We're brutal military oppressors in service to her Empress Miranda Tarkin. We're a highly organized and disciplined combat force, not radical freedom fighters blending in with civilians to hide our numbers.

That being the case, why would they be permitted to go to Cloud City at all? I refer you back to my Basra comment, which you seem to be reinforcing. You don't let your troops have downtime in enemy territory. You're just providing reasons of why the military and civilian characters shouldn't be allowed to interact.


The station is there, we still get to play on Cloud City when we want. Makes sense to me. And we can all play together on the station if we want to as well.

It's a military station. So no, no we don't. The military people get to go there. The civilians don't.

If we have a space station, then that is where the interaction between military characters will happen. All of the civilian characters meanwhile will not be on that station: they'll be on Cloud City, where our military type people aren't.

It seems silly to go to all this effort to ensure that we can get as many people in the same place as possible, only to definitively segregate them between the space station and Cloud City.

I can certainly see the military benefits of a space station. I cannot for the life of me see the character-based an OOC advantage to it; it makes the situation less simple, and means we'll need an excuse every time we go to Cloud City.

Why can't it just be the exact same place?


Edit:

Sorry for appearing grumpy. I'm not, and don't mean to offend. I'm just really struggling to see why the separation of military from civilian is necessary.

Worse, it seems that we're going to take over Cloud City... and then not make use of it. And, in doing so, we're going to make Cloud City harder for the Rebels to use, too. That doesn't seem fair. If we're going to do the latter, then the least that we can do is actually do Cloud City justice by making it the actual hub, rather than just an afterthought to give the idea a tiny bit more apparent credibility.

[Jamo Jakatta]

What kind of civilian characters are we expecting to have interacting here? o_O

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Yeah I'm wondering that too. We want our military types to all get to play together, our Imperials. The Empress can certainly visit the military station in orbit. She might not go to Cloud City.

And while the Indies/Civvies would be on CC, our military people can go there too basically whenever we want to RP them there. Right now the number of people who RP on CC are exactly.... zero. So I don't see much overlap here other than civvie NPCs. And I can always use Black Sun/Sassy/Kal there when I want to, or any bounty hunters or smugglers or Rebels...

We needed a central 'base' for various ISDs to dock to and for us Imps to mingle. I think the station idea works just fine, Mr. Grumpy Pants. ;)

When the Rebels want to crash CC to make things interesting then we can use 'magic' to have our Imps on CC then. There IS a garrison there and I'm sure it can be beefed up to keep the civvies subjugated. It may seem overly complicated but I think it'll work okay.

[Captain Untouchable]

Maybe providing access for people to play civilians would - gasp! - encourage people to do it? :o

The crux of it is this:

We're insisting on using Cloud City. Except, we aren't actually using Cloud City.

Because of our military presence, and increased garrison, no one else is going to be able to use Cloud City. And yet, we aren't actually making use of Cloud City, at all. We could accomplish just the same by putting a military station over any planet, anywhere in the galaxy. Heck, that would be easier, because there'd be the excuse of having our military personnel take trips down to the planet for shoreleave.

It just seems like we're snatching Cloud City and hoarding it, and we have no reason to do so; and aren't going to actually use it once we have. It seems like we just want to use Cloud City for the hell of it, not for any actual benefit.

Apparently, everyone is cool with that, bar me.

[Emelie Shadowstar]

Know I haven't said anything here yet but reading through I'm a bit confused...

Isn't Cloud City supposed to be kinda a neutral zone RP wise? With the Imperial station in orbit around Bespin that pretty much negates that, doesn't it? I mean... obviously rebels aren't going to go there for a holiday anymore. Which is fine if that's what everyone wants. But... does that keep Cloud City as kinda a place for the criminalish people to do their thing... and if so, why is the Empire tolerating such a blatant thing right in their back yard? Payoffs?

Just kinda curious as to if we even really need a "Cloud City" forum at that point since it falls under the shadow of the Empire at that point and really would eliminate it as an overall place where "any" character can come an interact...

Or...am I really missing the point here? (If this has pretty much been addressed, just blatantly quote it back at me, I'm kinda oblivious sometimes)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Well, then we could take over Cloud City, shuttle back and forth, and put so many boots on the ground...

*sigh* I don't know, I can see it both ways. ISDs can't dock with Cloud City. But if we took over the City and made it all military like and oppressed the people it would be interesting.

edit: Em, we talked about absorbing the CC forums into the Imp forums in some fashion but nothing was decided. They're not being used, anyway...

[Sanya Tagge]

Just so I'm clear on this:

* The station provides a place for military based RPs.
* CC provides a place for 'down time' / non-military RPs.

There would be no overlap in this regard, aside from if you were roleplaying as one of the Cloud City garrison - who I'd like to think would end up as corrupt as their predecessors anyway, probably getting under the table bribes from the Black Sun contingent.

[Sasseeri Reeouurra]

We do like to hand out bribes. I mean, gifts. :cat

Thanks for that clarification Jen, it makes sense again. And CC provides a place for 'others' to interact with the Imperials. Undercover Rebels, criminals, whatever.

[Sanya Tagge]

I was asking for my own clarity really ^_^; but yes - the potential for Imp/non-Imp interaction is good. It would be neat to see the Black Sun doing some dirty dealings with crooked Imperial cops.

[Emelie Shadowstar]

Ok... so CC would exist... obviously somewhat cleaned up thanks to Imperial presence but otherwise it remains the same (aside from Rebels going there without a care, I guess)?

My question now would be ...does Cloud City really need its own set of forums at this point? (They aren't really used that much right now to begin with)... but rather could be a "tagged" thing under the Imperial stuff? Just a "Cloud City" tag for a thread... we pretty much know the Black Sun has operations there but at this point it seems the majority of threads would be off duty Imperial interactions? ... Maybe have two different colored ones... greenish for more Black Sun based threads and Grayish for the Imps? I dunno... just kinda thinking about cleaning up stuff at this point too

[Captain Untouchable]

Edit:

In fact, screw that: talking with Kale made it seem simpler in my head.

Pretty much all the interaction between characters is going to happen on Cloud City, from what most people seem to be thinking. From the sound of it, the space station is just a glorified NPC car park, where we can leave our Star Destroyers when we go planet-side.

Why can't we just cut out the middle-man, and take a shuttle direct from our Star Destroyer to Cloud City?

It seems like an unnecessary extra step.


Edit 2:

My reluctance is slowly dwindling. Particularly since the "Orbital Car Park" phrasing is amusing me. Providing that it really is just a sort of flying Car Park / Office Block / Briefing Room, that makes sense to me.

We'll just need to make sure that there are regular shuttle trips back and forth between the station and Cloud City, so that people can "hop on a bus" and go... leave the station as more or less an NPC affair, unless we desperately need to use it for a meeting, or a briefing, or something.

That's what we're all thinking, right?

[Lilaena De'Ville]

But its necessary for our fleeters. So. :colbert


;)

[Sanya Tagge]

I was imagining the space station as more than just a 'car park', i.e. people actually roleplaying there :huh

[Captain Untouchable]

What would they be roleplaying, though?

Social interaction / drinking happens on Cloud City. So... meetings? Briefings? What else needs to go on up there?

[Tannis V'larr]

Talking with the good Captain has helped me clarify some ideas, too, so I'll see if I can help:

The station is pretty much for administrative purposes. It's the seat of Imperial governance and a place for the Star Destroyers to dock. It's probably also a distribution hub for the tibanna gas the Imperials demand as tribute, and Imperial freighters will come by to carry it off to other worlds. If the rebels come around, it'll be a target as the symbol of Imperial rule, the jackboot on the neck of Cloud City.

For the Imperial personnel stationed aboard the ships, the station is dreadfully boring. Since we're in a universe where going from orbit to a planet's surface is as simple as taking a drive downtown, they're going to go down to the city to spend their downtime there at every opportunity.

Think of it as a naval base just outside of town rather than as a separate entity. I think it's important to have from an administrative point of view, but most of the actual roleplaying will go on either in the city or on one of the ships.

EDIT: One last thing to justify the presence of the station: when the Rebels get stronger and bring a fleet to liberate Cloud City, just imagine what an explosion it'll make with all that tibanna gas on board! :)

[Sanya Tagge]

Actual.. Imperial business? What they should theoretically be spending the majority of their IC time doing. Plotting, scheming. Any military aspect of the Empire could use it as a base of operations, for whatever reason.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Yeah, I mean we're not talking just a few pilots, like the Rebel presence on the Wheel. We're talking about Admirals and muckety mucks as well as pilots and things. So we need the station for Imperial business and for our fleeters to wander about proclaiming what systems they just subjugated.

I think it'll work out just fine. If in the end it ends up no one RPs on the station, or CC is getting rusty from disuse again, then we could reevaluate.

[Travis North]

But its necessary for our fleeters. So. :colbert


;)

:cheers Exactly!


Essentially the whole purpose of this thread has been to create a platform and decent background setting for the various types of players (Imperials, and others) to interact.

The whole increased Imperial presence is for convenience, otherwise we'd be back where we started with the beginning of this thread. The goal was to kick the Empire's ass back into action, but in a more focused environment for it's players.

For example: Where my character usually stays on his starship shooting other starships in deep space I can instead be operating in the sector. Still have those great skirmishes, yet dock at the station/take a shuttle and head to CC for some downtime without having to NPC a whole hell of a lot and chum around with other player characters where I usually wouldn't have the oppourtunity or reason.
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

[Captain Untouchable]

In effect, then, the station is a glorified "flagship" for the Imperial Admiral in charge? If the Fleeters need to get together and have a meeting, it happens on the station. If there's a Shadow / Hellfire mission (and they aren't both on the same ship at this point), the briefing happens on the station. If two starcrossed lovers want to have a romantic picnic and watch the ships roll in, it happens on the station?

Beyond that, everything else happens on the planet?

That's cool. And if that's the case, I'm down with that. It pretty much took Kale explaining that there's no bar to get my head around it. :uhoh

[Tannis V'larr]

I'm honestly glad you spoke up, because I think it helped all of us clarify some things and hash out some potential problems. When Cloud City was first suggested, I at least was still thinking of a complex Deep Space Nine-type station that would genuinely have taken traffic away from the city. This is going to work so much better.

Edit: Woot! Post #100! Are we going to have to make a summary announcement post somewhere so people don't have to read five pages of us deliberating? :)

[Dasquian Belargic]

Please yes :lol

As an aside - I can offer Sanya as the Baron(ess?) Administrator of Cloud City, if we need an Imperial politician in charge of this.

[Nicky Raine]

Isn't that what this is?

http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20976

Another question it probably has been answered but by Bespin being on the front lines I assume you mean against the rebels it's pretty far away from indy territory at least on my map?

[Travis North]

Please yes :lol

As an aside - I can offer Sanya as the Baron(ess?) Administrator of Cloud City, if we need an Imperial politician in charge of this.

Works for me.

If no one objects I'd like to promo Travis to Admiral and oversee the military side of things at Bespin which would also give our newest fleeter room within the ranks to operate yet be given IC directions.
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

[Lilaena De'Ville]

But but... then I'd have to re-do your sig!

;) j/k. And I could, quite easily as I hoard my PSD files of all the sigs I've made. Ever. (well, almost)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Isn't that what this is?

http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20976

Another question it probably has been answered but by Bespin being on the front lines I assume you mean against the rebels it's pretty far away from indy territory at least on my map?

Yes, the front line with the Rebels.

And the OP of this thread should probably be updated with what's been decided to help newcomers to the discussion.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Sanya and Travis.. What a beautiful partnership it will be.

[Tear]

Please yes :lol

As an aside - I can offer Sanya as the Baron(ess?) Administrator of Cloud City, if we need an Imperial politician in charge of this.

Sounds like a perfect position for propaganda minister.



If no one objects I'd like to promo Travis to Admiral and oversee the military side of things at Bespin which would also give our newest fleeter room within the ranks to operate yet be given IC directions.
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

This also sounds good ole bean'. Make sure to include Ragnus, maybe as your second, gopher, make it happen, type guy.

Good job ladies and gentlemen. I haven't seen so much Imperial activity in a long time.

[Ceto Rübezahl]

It's quite far from the Rebel front line too, to be honest. Or at least, from the Rebel Alliance front line. Pleanty of rebels, dissidents, and what not about the place to keep us busy.


Is there any space for this guy at all? He was the Moff of Bothawui until the Rebels captured it. Then he was an Ambassador working up the Corporate Sector end of the Hydian Way, but the Independents have pretty much conquered that entire area, so he's in limbo again. He has (or possibly had, if the situation calls for the absense of one) a ship, but I have no idea how viable it would be to "convert" him into a Fleeter type character, nor at what level he'd be. Short of being killed, or defecting, I'm not really sure what do do with the poor chap.

Any thoughts? I'm somewhat stumped. :huh

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Mayhaps he's a diplomat now or something? Or he could become the Moff of whatever system/sector CC is in. Anoat?

I'm not sure how the Moff thing works. They rule over planets or systems, or is it sectors?

[Captain Untouchable]

Moffs rule over Sectors, aye. They're "the Regional Governors", as Tarkin described them: like the state Senator, for lack of a better comparison. The difference from Republic / Imperial Senators is that they had a degree of military authority, whereas the Senators were purely political.

Also, there may have been more than one Senator per system? I can't think of a specific example off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure there are some places - particularly in the core - where there are multiple planets with Senators in the same Sector.


A Moff might work, but then he'd spend most of his time on his Moffly homeworld (Gerrenthum). Also, since Moffs have a degree of military authority, I wouldn't want to turn up and userp Admiral North as head honcho, either.

That said, Miranda did kill off a bunch of people when she took over. Maybe Anoat, Yarith and Javin were all merged together into the "Greater Javin" Sector under the supervision of a single Moff, and Ceto can be a sort of deputy under-Moff, who is at Bespin because that's where all the cool kids are hanging out?

[Ceto Rübezahl]

Right! There is a plan for Ceto (sort of), thanks to extensive discussions with various people.


Long story short... because of "personnel shortages", the Empire merged the Anoat, Yarith and Javin sectors under a single Moff, and called it Greater Javin. Unfortunately, they didn't give said Moff any extra ships, troops, or resources; he was spread so thin that some planets had to loose out. One of those planets was Bespin, which is where the corruption set in.

Ceto's political status is a saga unto itself; but basically, he's been told that, if he goes to the old Anoat Sector and manages to restore Imperial control on planets there, he can rule over them as their Moff. But, they haven't given him anything with which to do that: no fleet, no army, no nothing.

North is there with his fleet to fight pirates, smugglers, and generally kickass; but he's under orders from the Greater Javin Moff, and not from Ceto. The only way Ceto gets his planets, gets his ships, and gets his support is through diplomacy: so he'll constantly need to keep the likes of Admiral North and Baroness Tagge on-side, else he's effectively powerless.


That's the nutshell / backdrop, anyway: the excuse for Ceto to be there. He's probably gonna spend most of the time swanning around, acting cool, and generally enjoying the politician-meets-movie-star lifestyle with which only Arnie can truely empathise.

Now that's dealt with... my arms feel naked, and lacking in candy. Where are my fan girls? :smokin