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Droo
Jul 10th, 2010, 09:57:55 AM
It has recently been brought to my attention, and I must emphasise in an absolutely amicable and constructive way, that for at least one member of the community there is some issue with my Jedi character, Abarai Loki (http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/member.php?u=4438).

Now I normally try to avoid making a character evaluation post unless I feel I need to and today I feel it's needed. When I created this character I had doubts concerning what other roleplayers might make of him and how they would feel about having their characters interacting with a fourteen year old Jedi Knight. First, a quick summary:

Abarai Loki has spent his entire life in seclusion with his grandfather and a couple of other padawans, training in militant fashion - strictly regimented and with no down time. Simply put, he's a boy without a childhood, or a family for that matter. His greatest strength is that he is highly intelligent. He has an innate craving for knowledge and learns things quickly, all much like his pre-reset incarnation. He is well-disciplined and has great resolve. And being of noble stock he has developed something of an arrogant, self-important side to his personality, and has absolutely no sense of humour or time for nonsense.

This is all covered better, and in more detail, here (http://www.sw-fans.net/wiki/index.php?title=Abarai_Loki).

Now, first of all, I can completely understand how this must be a difficult character to wrestle with as a fellow roleplayer. Adult characters humouring such a condescending little kid. It has never ever been my intention to make others feel like they are either selling their own characters short or allowing their characters to be patronised or their integrity undermined by putting up with this character just to keep me, the roleplayer, happy. And quite frankly, I've never asked anyone to do anything of the sort, we are all at liberty to have our characters behave and react to others exactly as we wish.


My impression of Loki is that he's a supreme brat who needs to be cut down a peg because everyone around him has let him get away with the act for too long.
This is an excerpt from an honest and polite critique I recieved today and my first response to this would be "If that is how your character feels about Loki then by all means portray those feelings. That makes for interesting character interaction." Also, to an extent, I feel I'm doing my job writing him because from an external perspective I imagine he would be an almost intolerable person, and one I would personally choose to avoid. Which brings me back to my original doubts. How can I expect fellow roleplayers to have their characters associate with him if it goes against their character's nature?

One of the focal points of the constructive criticism I recieved was that Loki seemed to possess an abundance of wisdom which, for a child, is just not at all believeable. I'm not really sure about this point and it concerns me, which is why I'm bringing it out into the open here for discussion.

To me, Loki is intelligent but his knowledge is very limited. He is very much a Jedi soldier, all he knows are matters of combat, combat tactics, and field medicine. He has very few life experiences, a flaw which he has been slowly building on since joining the Wheel and his social skills are weak. And while his reasoning skills and sense of logic are sound, he doesn't necessarily possess any real wisdom - just because he is confident and believes he's always right doesn't make that the case at all. He is far from flawless and I think I've given myself plenty to build upon and improve with him over time.

When I made this character my intention was to take the concept of the old Loki and turn it on its head: instead of having a fully-realised young boy growing into a Jedi Knight, I started with a Jedi Knight who would grow into a fully-realised man, complete with a sense of humour and all. Instead of learning Jedi skills on the Wheel, he'd be developing people skills and it was a concept I thought would make for interesting roleplaying with other characters and thus far, for me at least, it has.

If however others are unhappy with him and uncomfortable roleplaying with him then I'd really like to know. I could always just grant him an extra twenty or thirty years but I fear that would destroy the essence of what makes him original and fun to play. I welcome all constructive criticism here and would really appreciate the help.

And one more thing: sorry for making a novella out of this.

Anbira Hicchoru
Jul 10th, 2010, 10:07:27 AM
Sanis has made it abundantly clear how he feels about that uptight jerk, so I have no problems at all with how you play him.

I am looking forward to more of the personal discovery stuff. He's got a lot of rapport with Cirrsseeto, who tends to wear his childish tendencies on his sleeve, so I could see a little bit of personal discovery happening.

I've never really had a hard time suspending disbelief about what Loki knows. He's pretty much a Star Wars version of a spartan, because the kid's had no childhood and no time to be coddled in that way. As soon as he's been able to stand and hold a saber, it seems like that's been his world, so why wouldn't he be a hard-ass as he approaches his teens?

Loki is pretty intolerable, but I honestly think that's what makes it fun to roleplay with him. I don't want to be comfortable when I do that. I like to roll with that sort of personal strife.

Dasquian Belargic
Jul 10th, 2010, 10:49:34 AM
In a nutshell: I love Loki, old and new, and I wouldn't want you to change him at all.

In depth: As a character, Loki is an excellent example of what I feel like one of your strengths as a roleplayer is - creating unique characters, without falling prey to them becoming a gimmick or one trick pony. Loki feels very real and you only need to look at the amount of thought (and logic) that has gone into his background to understand why.

All of the characters aboard the Wheel are unique in their own way, of course, but Loki is - at least for me - definitely a stand out character. It would be easy for a human boy to fade into the background, around exotic characters like Drin Kizael or well-established characters like Navaria Tarkin, but that doesn't happen at all.

I think you hit on a winning formula with him and I hope that you are enjoying writing him, because I do look forward to seeing how he develops over time.

Jackson Mcgraves
Jul 10th, 2010, 11:08:16 AM
I liked Loki from the start as character and continue to enjoy reading what you write with him. One of best experiences rping here was actually Jackson and Loki hence why I picked this account to respond to this thread. I don't know what it was about Loki and Jackson maybe it was the fact that they both lack social skills (except when Jackson was wearing his superhero mask).

The characters seemed to have a lot in common yet clashed allot at the same time. I just have to admit that was one the best times I had playing Jackson even though it didn't last long. I thank you for that.

As for Loki he was a kid force to grow up fast allot like Jackson was. Jackson wasn't trained to be as dead serious as Loki. Nor was Jackson trained to be the warrior Loki was. I guess that experience is what I have to draw from the most I love the character Loki wish we could have done more together.

Loki isn't funny and takes himself way too seriously but that's what makes him unique and a downright awesome character. Not everyone IC is going to like, Jackson being one of them did like the kid (but Jackson is slightly crazy).

Don't give up on Loki I really really enjoy reading his stuff. I like how he acts more grown up then allot of the grown up characters. I like how that rubs some of the more grown up characters the wrong way. :)

(Had to respond to this I will go back to my vaction away from the boards now. :) )

Drin Kizael
Jul 10th, 2010, 11:45:49 AM
If however others are unhappy with him and uncomfortable roleplaying with him then I'd really like to know. I could always just grant him an extra twenty or thirty years but I fear that would destroy the essence of what makes him original and fun to play.

Given all the thought and energy that you've put into the character's back story, I wouldn't change him like that. He is definitely unique and that makes him interesting to read.

I can't imagine that anyone is "unhappy" with the character. And it's not so much a matter of being "uncomfortable" RPing with him, but perhaps someone might not be sure how they are supposed to regard him.

Sometimes writers have an expectation of how their audience (or in this case another player) is supposed to treat their character. Seems from what you say here that you did not have those kinds of expectations, which is cool.

See... if you envisioned that Loki was supposed to be enlightened far beyond his years, and that's why he is so supremely self-assured, then you might find yourself at odds with another writer who doesn't react to Loki's advice like he would Yoda. I've run into that with other players before, where I don't react with the proper amount of awe to their crushing intellect or prowess, and the resulting thread derailment and drama is no fun at all.

If, on the other hand, Loki was capable of facing the reality that he really is just a kid -- a kid with far more power and knowledge than any other teenager, but still a kid lacking the experience to really warrant such an ego -- then you might have an interesting character development.

That said, I would never expect Loki to find humility overnight or get all humble, either. That would be too jarring a change and take away some of what makes him interesting. Just, as the excerpt in your post suggested, just "take him down a peg". Give him something to wrestle with.

Droo
Jul 10th, 2010, 12:14:08 PM
Thanks for the feedback, guys. It is very encouraging to hear from people who have enjoyed reading the character or roleplaying with him - that is why we do this after all. I have to admit my confidence took a bit of a knock when I first read the character critique this morning, mainly because it raised issues which have haunted me, and I'm glad I brought the topic into the open.

And just a couple of points I'd like to touch upon, either in relation to what has been said here or otherwise:

Loki does not percieve himself as a child, which is why he is angered when others treat him as such, instead he sees himself as a Jedi. In fact, he considers himself a Jedi before he does an individual. And he is far from wise and no more is this emphasised when he fails to see his own faults, which is almost all the time.

These years in his life will be turbulent and it will become clear just how far he is from being the perfect model Jedi. He is far too proud and is clearly never going to make a good diplomat and on top of that he has to deal with adolesence. He could do with a good dose of humble pie and that is what his future will bring. It was never my intention to make a flawless character, and while he might assume himself worthy of respect, I as his writer do not.

And in fact, when he interacts with a Jedi Master his sense of propriety will be made clear and there's a completely different side of him to be seen. This sort of thing is what I am most anticipating with this character; dropping his guard, unravelling his personality, and exploring his depth. I've had the opportunity to scratch the surface with you guys so far, and I'm grateful for you helping to put my fears to rest, and I can now look forward with a bit more confidence. Cheers!

Lilaena De'Ville
Jul 12th, 2010, 10:40:15 PM
I'm glad you wrote this up because to be honest I didn't know Loki's backstory/how he was raised, and now he makes a bit more sense to me as a character. ;)

I think Loki is a great character. But since he's 14, maybe don't refer to him as a child (or other people shouldn't, I'm not sure where I got the impression)... I was tending to think he was like 10 years old and bossing around elder Jedi, from what I'd read in RPs.

p.s. why don't we RP together anymore? :(

Acacius Blade
Jul 15th, 2010, 01:11:09 AM
I can answer that - you're boring!

Droo, we've already spoke offline and all I have to add is: keep doing what you're doing with the annoying little shit. Acacius will wear him down eventually! :)