SWFans presents... Big Story? [Archive]

Droo

Jul 4th, 2010, 03:40:16 PM

Tonight, Jenny and I have been discussing ideas for a plot big enough to rock our little roleplaying universe and affect all factions across the board, uniting the community in one epic Star Wars story.

First, we pondered on the kind of events that cause drama on a global scale in the real world, such as assassinations, natural disasters, and wars. But since this is Star Wars it seemed we couldn't stray too far from one idea in particular which has been central to the franchise on numerous occassions: superweapons.

Yes, it has been done in the films, twice in fact, but we quickly realised that what is important is not the Death Star itself, or whatever new-fangled weapon of mass-destruction we imagine, but the stories and drama which unfold because of it. In short, a superweapon is a catalyst for action on a large scale with galactic consequences.

We thought it would be nice to start with a plot which is already very much in the pipe-line: the impending rescue of Serena Laran. It's going to happen so why not sow the seeds of a much larger story arc neatly into it? The idea was for a member of the rescue mission to accidently come across blueprints or plans or some sort of clue hinting at yet another nefarious Imperial scheme while in the process of saving our wayward Jedi.

Now such a discovery then leads to a veritable bevy of spin-off threads in which word gets out and action is taken to investigate, infiltrate, or even sabotage the Empire's attempts to construct their latest Doomsday Device. And naturally, this all culimates in an epic battle to destroy the superweapon itself.

"This sounds familiar..."

Fair enough, but it's what I'm not talking about here that's really interesting, the real meat in the story. What if this time the Empire wanted the Rebels to find their secret plans? What if a member of the Serena Laran Rescue Unit felt their escape was a little too easy? And how is the rest of the galaxy sitting with this? What about those independent systems? Then we have Onderon and the might of the Hapan Fleet to consider? What kind of role will they have to play in this? With whom will these factions throw in their lot?

Ultimately, there's plenty to consider, and bits not yet being revealed and ideas to be discussed with the various factions should such an epic undertaking such as this come to pass. The idea is very simple, provide the community with a story arc which unifies us and allows us to explore it with our characters in a whole host of different threads which gradually build up to what we all love: a bloody big battle! Plot-twists, power-shifts, and character developments abound, we think there's potential for a truly enjoyable and memorable tale here and we invite you to share your thoughts and ideas in the hope that we can get this thing to work!

Dasquian Belargic

Jul 4th, 2010, 03:47:28 PM

Droo and I discussed a few potential great twists for this story line, especially with regards to tipping the scales in the Galactic Civil War, but I think that this is a story arc which everyone, regardless of their characters position or profession, can become a part of.

The galactic civil war has been slow in progressing, and although there are a number of characters whom it impacts on a regular basis, there are elements of the galactic community who go largely untouched by the politics of the Empire. We believe that this story can bring the Rebels, Imps, Jedi, smugglers, hunters, Sith and everyone in-between together, and hopefully energise 'Fans overall :) We have a great bunch of writers and characters here, so I don't doubt that we can make something exciting happen.

Rev Solomon

Jul 4th, 2010, 04:12:30 PM

Hmm, what if the Empire were building the new weapon on the Death Star II's frame?

Or somehow reclaiming their past failure, since it was pretty spectacular? I know we probably don't want something too similar to what's been done before.

Lilaena De'Ville

Jul 4th, 2010, 05:46:59 PM

I like this idea. :thumbup

Karl Valten

Jul 4th, 2010, 05:52:35 PM

An idea I've been playing with a bit, but never got many people on board with has to do more with the Emperor's Storehouse. Thinking when we did the "Year's from Now" thread with the massive zombie-plague thing, a biological superweapon is much scary than something like a deathstar.

The Emperor's Store house is a facility that is built into an asteroid in the outerrim. With the Emperor's death the location of the place has been lost, but it's still out there. The place contains samples of hundreds of different viruses (including the Krytos virus) that target specific species. There is also one that targets humans.

Anyone that gets their mits on that would become very, very powerful in the galaxy.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Emperor%27s_Plague_Storehouse

Captain Untouchable

Jul 4th, 2010, 06:02:53 PM

A few thoughts:

- By "tipping the balance" of the Galactic Civil War, are we talking about pushing the Rebel Alliance in a more New Republic direction? That isn't a reason to object to the idea - I just want to be clear on what sort of fallout you are expecting.

- Is a superweapon really Miranda's style? I don't know why, but it seems to lack her usual degree of ellegance, somehow. Also, while Star Wars often fails to show it, there's obviously a necessary research and development period involved, so the superweapon was likely started before Miranda came to power, in some form or another. Is she merely taking advantage of a prior project laid down by Palpatine? Or is someone else masterminding it?

- What if it wasn't the Empire? I'm sure you and Droo already gave this pleanty of consideration anyhow... but what if it was Tear who was responsible, or some outside force like the Ssi'Ruuk, or the Chiss? Maybe our "shake-up" is the result of the Rebels, Imperials, and Criminals being forced together as unlikely allies, and then us seeing what is left when the dust settles? Would the Alliance weaken Miranda's standing? Would it make more people join the Rebels? Would it push more independent systems into forming small alliances like Onderon? Or would the Empire be able to claim credit for the victory, and strengthen it's position?

- I know it's a yucky thing to say, but our attempts to do "big" threads in the past have had mixed results. Do you have any thoughts on the practical / logistics side of actually getting a story such as this written and complete - breaking the story down into small chunks/threads, so that if a couple of threads grind to a halt, it doesn't disrupt the pace of the entire story, etc?

I really like the idea, and am behind it whatever happens. :)

I agree with Karl about the bio-weapon potentially being more scary, too. Though that's quite difficult to fight, as an enemy. And if the Imperials were behind it, it doesn't give them a huge amount to do.

Alternatively, I was fond of the Sun Crusher, which blew up suns... a literal "Death Star". Plus, in Star Trek: Generations, Malcolm McDowell endorsed this plan, so it must be good. :smokin

Karl Valten

Jul 4th, 2010, 06:26:08 PM

Heh, true true.

The Storehouse thing could work well, IMO. A lot of different groups scrambling to find the place. No idea how it's existence would be revealed to the galactic players at large.

Maybe the same as the book happening. Random explorer could run across the place and try to sell off the star chart info and all of a sudden most of the galaxy is gunning after him to get the nav-data.

Heck one of the PCs here could be that poor schmuck.

Captain Untouchable

Jul 4th, 2010, 06:39:06 PM

"It took six separate jumps into hyperspace and twice as many hours to get to the asteroid since there was no direct route available."

Might be a tad tricky to "stumble" upon. :uhoh

Looking at that timeline, too, the Liberation of Coruscant doesn't happen in the proper timeline until more or less the current year on Fans - 7 ABY / 3 AE. Based on that timeline, the Krytos virus wouldn't exist, unless someone else makes it.

It might be interesting to flip the usual Star Wars racism on its head though, and have a non-human start using a virus that kills only humans (ie. the Emperor's Plague (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Emperor%27s_Plague)). That would be a sure-fire way to decimate Imperial forces, since Stormtroopers are almost exclusively human. And, it would target Alderaanians, Corellians, and Chandrillans: the three founding races of the Rebel Alliance. Unlike the Krytos virus, which attempted to destabilise the New Republic by turning the non-humans against the humans, this might instead empower the non-humans, and twist the Rebel Alliance from something that operates in a very human way into something that takes much more influence from the Bothans, Mon Calamari, and Sullustans.

That said, we don't have all that many non-human Rebels around, so that might make things tricky. :uhoh

Karl Valten

Jul 4th, 2010, 06:42:30 PM

Tear

Jul 4th, 2010, 08:09:47 PM

I mentioned in my Rumblings in the Outer Rim (http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20212) that one of my many aims with the group was to fill several needs the board was lacking. One being tipping the galactic scales away from the Empire and into a more balanced system. The other was to pose a galactic threat.

I'm still very much on track in accomplishing both these goals. I've plotted out the story arcs into completion and the finale has large parts for the Rebels, Jedi, The Empire, Mandalorians, Bounty hunters, Criminals and even Sith to play in it's conclusion. But it's still far from finishing.

I've been laying the brickwork and I wouldn't feel comfortable rushing it to the end when I've just reached the mid point of the arc. Nor would I feel comfortable having you guys waiting on me until it gets to that climax point. It's not fair to you guys.

Another fear would be involving too many people to soon and having it fall apart before it finishes. Like Jace said managing the logistics. Having too much happen too suddenly might ruin it.

That's not to say I don't fully endorse what ever you guys come up with and it's possible I can keep my story arc intact. While still contributing to what you guys wish to accomplish. I just wanted to let you all know that everything your discussing now, is being worked on.

Including a bio-weapon (http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19798) and its distribution. In which Tear will blame Valten (Much love homie) for developing. Even though he didn't.;)

Darth Sokar

Jul 4th, 2010, 08:56:11 PM

Not that my points matter but I got a sort of answer to one of the questions asked.

Is a superweapon really Miranda's style? I don't know why, but it seems to lack her usual degree of ellegance, somehow. Also, while Star Wars often fails to show it, there's obviously a necessary research and development period involved, so the superweapon was likely started before Miranda came to power, in some form or another. Is she merely taking advantage of a prior project laid down by Palpatine? Or is someone else masterminding it?

I have personally discussed the idea of superweapons with Miranda in the past. In one of are discussions she mentioned Miranda might build one in a purposeful attempt to draw out the rebels. Miranda more then likely wouldn't use the device to destroy planets. At least that was are discussion a long time. She also did mention someone could do it behind her back as well which would cause other problems.

Taataani Meorrrei

Jul 5th, 2010, 11:25:28 AM

Having a superweapon is bargainable in the sense that you may use it, rather than using it having any value. I could definitely understand Miranda thinking that, because it's a very pertinent cold war sort of view on superweapons.

Darth Sokar

Jul 5th, 2010, 11:57:32 AM

I agree with Karl about the bio-weapon potentially being more scary, too. Though that's quite difficult to fight, as an enemy. And if the Imperials were behind it, it doesn't give them a huge amount to do.

I was thinking on this and Imps could have ton to do with such a scenario. Like trying to go in and save the day. Make it look like the rebels or Independents did it. Play the hero to their own villainy.

I don't think Miranda would be behind such an act but it would be a great conspiracy to propagate. Imps attack one of there own planets with a bio weapon pretending to be rebels or Independants. Devastation occurs Imperials swoop in to save the day as do the rebels or Indies, skirmishes breaks out. (mass confusion for the rebels or indies as the populace blames them)

Just saying it would work just not a very likely scenario.

Anbira Hicchoru

Jul 5th, 2010, 12:00:26 PM

Could be a race supremacist group of Cizerack at work ;)

Captain Untouchable

Jul 5th, 2010, 12:10:22 PM

I was thinking on this and Imps could have ton to do with such a scenario. Like trying to go in and save the day. Make it look like the rebels or Independents did it. Play the hero to their own villainy.

I agree, things could be found in this scenario to occupy the Imperials, but the only way - like you're suggesting - is to turn the "villain" into a third party, rather than it being the Empire, whether genuinely, or as part of the type of conspiracy you suggest.

It stops the actual roleplaying being "Empire vs. Rebels", at least at a character level, if you see what I mean.

Dasquian Belargic

Jul 5th, 2010, 02:09:45 PM

In response to some issues raised, I'll just relay a little more of what Droo and I discussed.

Why is the Empire behind this?
Droo and I discussed exactly who should be in charge of this potential new superweapon and for a couple of reasons the Empire seemed like the best party. First off, they are the faction which most likely has the resources to pull something incredibly threatening off - but more importantly, it felt to us like having the Jedi, Rebels and whoever else as the people investigating and under threat made sense. This gives the Jedi a solid goal to work towards, something which they are dearly lacking at the moment, and a reason to co-operate with the Rebellion more frequently.

At least where Onderon-Hapes is concerned, I have some tentative plans in place that would hopefully lead on from this plotline.. and providing for a very interesting change in the dynamics of war.

What do you mean by tipping the balance of the galactic civil war?

Exactly that! The Empire is the power beyond all powers at the moment, and elsewhere we have a collection of weaker entities. However, the Empire is becoming fragmented within... and it would only take a few well-made alliances to provide the Empress with a formidable opponent... ;)

Big threads fall on their asses.

Yes they do, and that's why we wanted to make this not 'a big thread' but 'a series of threads.' Beyond that even, really... it would just be a step forward in the overall story of 'Fans. I know that at the moment each faction is individually progressing their own story - and that as Tear says, he is working on something big - but right now we don't have anything that is affecting everyone.

What is the superweapon?

I don't really know/care! Droo and I thought of perhaps a mass EMP, or a grav-well generator, but the specifics of what the superweapon was didn't really factor hugely into our discussion. We did touch on the Krytos virus, but we just couldn't imagine the Empire releasing it in the current climate. Miranda wants to maintain a strong power base. Why rock what is already a shaky boat by creating even more enemies?

On top of this, we wanted to think of a weapon that could feasibly be turned around and used by the Rebellion - and a biochemical weapon is not there style at all. The EMP, grav-well, etc also felt more classically Star Wars.. and as a set piece within the story, somehow more dramatic. It's shocking to have people dropping down dead, coughing up blood.. but to suddenly have a huge ship appear out of hyperspace and render the entire Rebel fleet useless? That's terrifying.

Serena Laran

Jul 5th, 2010, 02:23:46 PM

Just a random thought - maybe a virus that targets individuals of a high midiclorian count?

I know, I know... maybe something to use at another point maybe. It wouldn't take out just Jedi of course, but any people who might be adept and not know it, or so on and so forth.

Interdictor cruisers already exist that can keep ships from going into hyperspace, I'm not sure what a bigger one would do that a few of those couldn't? Well... maybe effect a large, circular area instead of a cone shaped bit of space?

Hmm... or couple the big ass interdictor cruiser idea with the most effective ion cannon tech yet..? This isn't really a 'super weapon' in the traditional sense, and could be explained as a ship of 'peace' rather than war. Minimize casualties, take the rebels alive? (or just use accompanying ISDs to blast the disabled and trapped ships into smithereens. ;))

Barton Henning

Jul 5th, 2010, 02:29:00 PM

Okay, so we have had a lot of discussion about the weapon itself. Now, setting the question of 'what is the weapon?' aside from the moment...

What about the rest of the idea?

Lilaena De'Ville

Jul 5th, 2010, 02:32:15 PM

I like it. But I already said that. :)

It gives the Imperials a chance to be the Big Bad (or be conflicted), and everyone else a chance to work against/with the Big Bad.

As far as logistics go, with a big board-wide story that will take many many RPs and many people, we could think about creating one stickied thread for people to say what they're up to, so we can keep track?

Daria Nytherciria

Jul 5th, 2010, 02:37:09 PM

As far as logistics go, with a big board-wide story that will take many many RPs and many people, we could think about creating one stickied thread for people to say what they're up to, so we can keep track?

I like that suggestion a lot.

It helps us to keep our focus on what we're trying to achieve, and also provides anyone who wants to come into the story a quick and easy way to understand the current 'lay of the land', so to speak.

Droo

Jul 5th, 2010, 02:38:33 PM

As far as logistics go, with a big board-wide story that will take many many RPs and many people, we could think about creating one stickied thread for people to say what they're up to, so we can keep track?

That's a good idea. A chronicle for the arc. I think that would help encourage everyone to pour their own ideas and sub-plots into this thing. The key thing, I think, is to not overthink the specifics and keep the story as wide open as possible, with the exception of a few key plot-twists to keep turning things on their head. Factions and characters are than at liberty to take this and play with it in their respective arenas, crossing-over as they see fit.

Anbira Hicchoru

Jul 5th, 2010, 02:44:38 PM

I'm fairly excited for this

Drin Kizael

Jul 5th, 2010, 03:30:19 PM

Edit... I'd be happy to go along with whatever. Sounds good.

Inyos Aamoran

Jul 5th, 2010, 03:47:07 PM

Since bigger is generally better as far as Star Wars is concerned, just whacking some grav generators on a Super Star Destroyer might be enough: that makes it a ship that's extremely difficult to destroy, and which they can't simply run away from into Hyperspace.

Tipping the balance

For the record, I'm playing devils advocate: I just want to make sure the issue has been thoroughly thought through, etc. :)

Currently, the Rebel Alliance has three major strongholds: Bothawui, Mon Calamari, and Sullust. (Sure, we have control of Chandrilla, but the system is blocladed by the Empire, so that doesn't really count)

It really wouldn't take much, at this point, for the Empire to crush us. The reason that they don't is mainly because, while they could "crush" us, it would grind us into tiny pieces, and those fragments would slip through their fingers, and continue to be a nuisance. We are, for lack of a better analogy, a tolerable annoyance right now.

If we became a bigger threat, then obviously the Empire would have to start treating the Rebellion like a proper enemy. That means more conventional warfare, more like the Clone Wars than a civil war - and presumably, that's the point. Otherwise, we've just changed the percentages on the galactic domination pie chart, and go about our business as normal.

But who does that actually impact? Fleeters would benefit, sure. But we don't have many of those. Army characters would too, but the story there is the same. On the other hand, Rogue Squadron would still be protecting the Wheel, and they're just one Squadron, so unless we steal the whole Liberation of Coruscant idea, that wouldn't change much. Intel Agents, SpecOps operatives, and SpecForce would still be doing all the same special missions, rather than waging actual wars... so very little change there too.

I'm struggling to see the "benefit" to the players themselves, if there is one. Is the change integral to the entire idea, or is it just a gimmick that we're sticking on, just to say "look, ma: we're progressing!" ?

Imperial Responsibility

Also being devil's advocate - you've suggested a bunch of reasons why it's good for the Jedi, Rebels, Onderon and so forth to have the Imperials as the villain.

How do Imperial characters benefit from being the bad guys in this scenario? Where do they fit in, and what do they get to do?

Everything Else

I love the idea as a whole. I think the suggestion to keep a chronicle is a good idea. I'd just like to be sure that we've thoroughly thought through the fallout, and that we aren't just doing things for gimmick value, etc. :)

Dasquian Belargic

Jul 5th, 2010, 04:03:52 PM

I'm struggling to see the "benefit" to the players themselves, if there is one. Is the change integral to the entire idea, or is it just a gimmick that we're sticking on, just to say "look, ma: we're progressing!" ?

What is the goal of the Rebellion and the Jedi right now? There isn't one. They have nothing they are working to achieve, besides 'topple the Empire'. This gives us something concrete to do, and whilst foiling a superweapon project doesn't cripple the Empire, it gives the Rebels and Jedi a chance to work together and to grow stronger in the process.

If I need to explain why that 'benefits' the players.. then, well, I don't know what to say. I would have thought that would be self-evident. We reset the storyline here five years ago and since then, the overall story of Sw-Fans has barely changed. On a galactic scale, we have gained an Empress, and that is largely it. I don't mean to undermine what we have done, because every single one of the RPs here is written so well and with such great characters - but it feels like time for some kind of progress, that there is so much more that we could be doing if we weren't stuck in this single, frozen moment of the galactic civil war. Shifting the balance of the galactic civil war has been brought up on more than one occasion, and usually received positive support (especially for establishing a cold war setting) - it's just a matter of turning that support into actual activity.

Ultimately, though, it's not my place to say what this idea would or wouldn't provide for every single character type. Roleplaying has always been about what you bring to the table, and in turn what you get out of it. If you want to play devils advocate... you are of course entitled to do so, but at least from a personal perspective I would find it so much more helpful to hear suggestions for things we could or can do, rather labelling things as pointless/gimmicky/without benefit.

Droo

Jul 5th, 2010, 04:35:57 PM

For the record, I'm playing devils advocate: I just want to make sure the issue has been thoroughly thought through, etc. :)

Then you are going to be disappointed, I'm afraid. Things have not been thoroughly thought through, and with good reason, the point being to not plot the course of the unfolding story every step of the way. There are milestones, yes, but not so much as to stifle the creativity of others and prevent them from having their characters impact the story.

But who does that actually impact?

At risk of sounding like a lah-di-dah philosopher, it impacts those who wish for it. The long and short of it is we will only get out of our stories what we put into them. Roleplaying here has always been a collaborative endevour, and in the case of big stories like this, every kind of roleplaying group and character type is welcome to dive head first into the planning, co-ordinating and roleplaying of moments which are both significant to themselves and the larger picture, bringing about change. Of course, no-one will have changes thrust upon them on an individual or group basis, and that is why we welcome healthy debate here.

How do Imperial characters benefit from being the bad guys in this scenario? Where do they fit in, and what do they get to do?

It's not a question of fitting someone into it, the story will be shaped by their contributions. That is the benefit of starting out with only a few big ideas around which an intricate plot can be sculpted. But speaking realistically, as you rightly said the Empire could crush the Rebellion as it stands since it is still very powerful. Then surely it would make for more dynamic story-telling if both sides were more evenly matched for a change? It's something different. That is if we are assuming the Empire take a hard blow from this one, which is not necessarily on the cards at all, but if it were then surely it would give the roleplayers of Imperial characters something new to work with?

There are more active Rebel characters as it stands than Imperials, and I for example have had an Imperial fleet character I've been wanting to play for ages but personally, I haven't found the soil very fertile for exciting new stories on the Empire's front due to their rather comfortable position in the grand scheme of things. Shake it up a bit and all these characters have things to deal with - we gave the Jedi and Rebellion the Wheel and look what happened there. Perhaps this would invigorate an exciting new aggressive Empire, who knows?

Captain Untouchable

Jul 5th, 2010, 04:48:59 PM

Edit:

Actually, I retract my post. I'm going to need to go away and work out how to re-explain my concerns, because you seem to be trying to (vaguely) reassure me about something I'm not even remotely worried about.

Obviously I didn't explain it very well. :)

Lilaena De'Ville

Jul 5th, 2010, 05:00:45 PM

Hey what if the Rebels come up with a superweapon, instead of the Imperials?

Captain Untouchable

Jul 5th, 2010, 05:09:01 PM

Hey what if the Rebels come up with a superweapon, instead of the Imperials?

That's one of the things I asked. I think the reason that Jenny and Droo lumped for the Empire is because they have the resources to pull it off; because a superweapon wouldn't be the Rebellions style; and because they want to use this as an opportunity to unite the Jedi and the Rebellion, rather than split them over moral grounds.

Re: Jenny and Droo's comments -

It seems you've missed what I'm asking. There's no need to explain the benefits of the superweapon concept to me: as stated already, I think it's a great idea (I've even already offered your requested suggestions, Jenny ;)).

My concern stems from the fact that you seem to be thinking that the fallout of this whole shindig should leave us with an unstable Empire, and a more stable Rebellion / New Republic.

Droo has kindly explained why an unstable Empire is good; and I certainly agree with the thinking there. However, given the reasons that Droo cited, why is a more stable Rebellion better for everyone / anyone?

The reason I call it a "gimmick" is because you seem to be following in the footsteps of the EU, and haven't offered any reasons for why. I can only assume, in the absense of other evidence, that you're suggesting a move towards a New Republic, for the sake of moving towards a New Republic, rather than any quantifiable pro (by all means, please offer me some actual information instead of vagueness, so I can happily accept that I'm wrong :)).

Lilaena De'Ville

Jul 5th, 2010, 05:11:30 PM

Well, maybe not a planet/star destroying superweapon, but certainly something like a souped up Interdictor/ISD type ship that could be a fleet killer. That would certainly tip the war towards the Rebel's favor and have the Imperials scrambling to cover their asses.

Between that and the Independents rattling the cage it would destabilize the Empire maybe all the way to the Core.

Captain Untouchable

Jul 5th, 2010, 05:32:50 PM

Aye, but that's where it comes back to the resources thing again. We haven't had the money, nor the time, nor the manpower, nor the raw materials to actually construct anything really big like that.

Bear in mind that, in-game, we've only had Sullust liberated for about a year, so we couldn't have built a super-ship there in time for it to be active now. Mon Calamari on the other hand has been liberated from the Empire for maybe seven or eight years, but their shipyards are configured for building Mon Calamari cruiser sized ships. To build a super-ship they would have to construct a brand new shipyard facility in orbit, then build the hull of the ship, develop the necessary technologies, do all the required research and development...

We're too young and sexy to have built a ship like that by now. ;)

That said, even a single Interdictor could make a world of difference to the Alliance - the Liberation of Coruscant in the EU made a great use of an Interdictor as a stop-gap for the Rebel fleet. An Interdictor would be great for ambushing supply convoys - we could wait along their projected route, and pull them into an ambush on our terms, rather than waiting for them to revert naturally.

Maybe that would be something to think about as a stepping stone? If the Rebels got their hands on an Interdictor, and started posing an even greater threat to Imperial supply lines, that might be enough to start provoking Miranda into the use of her superweapon.

Droo

Jul 5th, 2010, 05:42:07 PM

For the record, I have only ever read the Truce at Bakura and as that takes place a day after the Battle of Endor so I can't really claim to have a wealth of EU knowledge.

Consequently, I don't imagine I'm influenced by it very much at all, however, let's address this idea of the New Republic. First of all, we're talking about tipping the scale in the Galactic Civil War, not bringing about a new government. If anything the odds would simply become more even and where we would go from there is simply a matter for a whole other discussion. Secondly, it only stands to reason that should we invite change into our own Star Wars galaxy that the Rebels are an option to take the place of the Empire should it ever be overthrown.

It's not a gimmick, that is what our Rebel characters wanted, an alliance to restore the Republic. To not humour that idea out of a fear of being unoriginal not only narrows our options needlessly but also suggests a degree of doubt in our own creative abilities to keep things different and fresh. I know that is not what you are implying but I'm simply highlighting the negative side to that argument.

And as for the Rebel Alliance becoming stronger and what that has to offer to our characters, again, it is something different. How long can we continue to have our characters scurry and scrouge the length and breadth of the galaxy without any sort of payoff? If the Rebels had more reasources we could look at a future in which the Jedi may have the construction of a new temple underway or the military have the confidence and power to engage the Empire head on from time to time, and as you correctly implied, some real warfare unleashed; ground assaults on critical Imperial strongholds, ferocious space battles from which the Rebels don't have to cut their losses and run.

But that's just the two big ones we've been discussing. There are other factions out there such as the Onderon-Hapan alliance and the Independents. From the ashes of such a large costly engagement these guys have the opportunity to take advantage of their rivals and make their mark on the galactic stage.

Inyos Aamoran

Jul 5th, 2010, 05:52:18 PM

It's not a gimmick, that is what our Rebel characters wanted, an alliance to restore the Republic.

Good point - touché. :)

First of all, we're talking about tipping the scale in the Galactic Civil War, not bringing about a new government. If anything the odds would simply become more even and where we would go from there is simply a matter for a whole other discussion.

That's sort of the point I was raising, yeah. The reason I assumed you were hankering for a New Republic was because Jenny spoke of the alliance getting new worlds / allies / etc, in order to make us a more formidable opponent. More worlds means that, unfortunately, we would have to at least take a step towards government.

If, as you rightly point out, establishing a new Republic is out long-term goal, might something in this (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Alliance_of_Free_Planets) vein be appropriate?

I just stumbled on it, clicking through articles to work out how they got from Rebel to Republic in the novels, to see if there was an obvious middle ground. Something like that - effectively the Rebel Alliance, but with a provisional goverment to look after the interests of our planetary members - might work as a good middle ground.

Dasquian Belargic

Jul 6th, 2010, 12:49:57 AM

I feel like we are getting ahead of ourselves with this. You guys are already mapping out what the Rebellion will look like after the whole story has been finished, and the whole point of this idea was the story itself. Not the end point. As Droo already explained, we don't want to set out a rigid structure that people have to follow.

We just start with: The Jedi travel to Coruscant, to infiltrate the heart of the Empire and free Serena Laran. In the process, they stumble across details of a worrying new Imperial project. And that's it. That's where it starts, and where it goes from there is completely down to the people involved. We have thought of some twists that might be interesting - such as Hapes-Onderon throwing their lot in with the Rebellion, giving the Alliance the boost of the Hapan fleet - but we haven't mapped out the new governmental structure and ideologies of what the Rebellion would be in the wake of whatever happens because we don't know everything that is going to happen, and we don't want to.

Hey what if the Rebels come up with a superweapon, instead of the Imperials?

Paraphrasing myself earlier in this thread... there are more active Jedi and Rebel chars. It gives them focus/goals. Star Wars is about the good guys foiling the plans of the bad guys.

Lilaena De'Ville

Jul 6th, 2010, 01:13:02 AM

Okay!

Well, as soon as Serena has one interrogation thread done then we can start rescuing her. I'll try to set up a James/Barton thread soonish. :)

Dasquian Belargic

Jul 6th, 2010, 01:19:16 AM

:dance Hooray!

Tear

Jul 6th, 2010, 01:59:13 AM

Star Wars is about the good guys foiling the plans of the bad guys.

Pfffftt....;)

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Captain Untouchable

Jul 6th, 2010, 05:05:16 AM

If you are choosing to leave it vague on purpose, fair enough. You just seemed to be implying that you had an endgame in mind, given what you said initially. :mneh

Darth Sokar

Jul 6th, 2010, 06:27:49 AM

The Jedi travel to Coruscant, to infiltrate the heart of the Empire and free Serena Laran. In the process, they stumble across details of a worrying new Imperial project.

I have question on the lead up to revelation of a super weapon or whatever is decided on.

I have seen Jedi/rebels ask for assistance on getting off Coruscant before or help with a mission on Coruscant. The general answer ooc is its way to risky, why risk the lives of the many for the one and a few other responses along those lines. They are all great legitimate answers given because Coruscant is controlled by the empire.

However my question comes about because of this general response and because I'm confused. Why is Serena Laran important enough to put the needs of the many at risk for the need of the individual? I'm basically asking why Serena and none of the others who asked for assistance in the past?

I'm just slightly confused on why all of a sudden they would risk lives possibly losing more of their own just to save one?
:huh

Dasquian Belargic

Jul 6th, 2010, 06:41:39 AM

I think that Serena is going to get a message to the Jedi somehow, giving them a glimmer of hope to actually rescue her.

We have also seen lately, as all of the Jedi on the Wheel met together, that some of the Jedi are now willing to take risks - though not all of them support dangerous plans, some are strongly in favor of being more pro-active.

Miranda Tarkin

Jul 6th, 2010, 07:42:11 AM

I have no idea where to begin even though I read this entire thread :lol

I will just throw some minor thoughts down. For example, the Rebels having a super weapon seems peculiar. They are the ones that stop that sort of thing and power = corruption. Not to say that some more proactive ones wouldn't mind having the bigger gun then others, but it really wasn't the Rebellions style. It would be more like the Dark Knight when Batman had to use the sonic network and then destroy it. Not have it for just in case.

As for Miranda, super weapons are not her forte since they always got her family killed in some form. If one was already in production, she could stop it but if imperial credits were being pumped into that much AND if it was kept from her, kinda hard for her to do much about it. Wasting money is not her thing either.

Now I find this KA alliance quite interesting. Them playing the good guys with Hapes as a backup makes for a great twist. I do also love that there will be three factions and our little galaxy is reminding me of canon a bit since there was an Empire, New Republic and of course those that want neither. :)

Captain Untouchable

Jul 6th, 2010, 10:15:00 AM

Darth Sokar

Jul 6th, 2010, 10:36:43 AM

I don't think it matters so much that it is Serena. It matters that it's 'a Jedi'. The identity isn't as important as the idea that the Jedi are back, and are powerful enough to snatch someone - anyone - from the jaws of the Empire.

*shakes head and bites his tongue*

I think that Serena is going to get a message to the Jedi somehow, giving them a glimmer of hope to actually rescue her.

We have also seen lately, as all of the Jedi on the Wheel met together, that some of the Jedi are now willing to take risks - though not all of them support dangerous plans, some are strongly in favor of being more pro-active.

Thanks I was just curious.

My next question would a super weapon be enough to spur KA out of its isolationist view? Would it be willing to put a target on its back for a weapon would more then likely never be used against them?

Someone mentioned that KA fitting into this was mentioned somewhere could you point me in the right direction of where it was stated?

Droo

Jul 6th, 2010, 10:55:20 AM

*shakes head and bites his tongue*

The Jedi are now gathered and they are in regular everyday contact with the Rebellion, and consequently they have the will and resources to pull off a stunt like a high-risk rescue operation on Coruscant. Of course, there will be those, including some Jedi, who object but that is the point of the Wheel - variation and conflict.

Before the Wheel, there was no such co-ordination and no way the Jedi could mount an operation to get someone off Coruscant. Look at a character like Jackson Macgraves, for example, he has been stuck on Coruscant and back when the Wheel was forming there would've been simply no way to locate or contact him, let alone orchestrate a high-risk extraction operation. Now however, we have more options thanks to the work already put into the Wheel by Jedi and Rebel characters.

It has nothing to do with one character being of more worth than another, it is simply a matter of timing.

Darth Sokar

Jul 6th, 2010, 11:02:56 AM

I never thought it meant any character had more worth then the other. I just wanted to honestly know what changed in the mentality and Dasq gave me that info. Nothing more was meant by it other general curiosity into what had changed in the Jedi perception. :)

As for my biting tongue comment I did so because if I would have said what I was thinking at that exact moment about what he said this thread well would have went degraded into another shut the F up thread. I just needed to step back and think for a moment that was all that was meant by that comment. :)

Dasquian Belargic

Jul 6th, 2010, 11:09:16 AM

My next question would a super weapon be enough to spur KA out of its isolationist view? Would it be willing to put a target on its back for a weapon would more then likely never be used against them?

Someone mentioned that KA fitting into this was mentioned somewhere could you point me in the right direction of where it was stated?

This is a good question.

The KA's current planets sit on the line between the territory of the Empire and the Independents. Consequently, we are expecting a little Imperial interest into our humble worlds as the Empire tries to gauge which side of the conflict we fall on. Naturally, Salem and Adraudia do not want to become minions of the Empire.

If the Rebellion were able to foil the Empire's superweapon plan, and possibly even turn the situation to their gain, the KA might side with them in the interests of creating an even larger power base. Salem, after all, is hell-bent on galactic domination and should signs appear that the Alliance was becoming stronger, he could make them even stronger still with the resources he has.

It would certainly be a big gamble, but Salem has been trying to amass influence and power for a while now. I could see this being the time that he decides to really plunge into the wider political scene.

Tear

Jul 6th, 2010, 12:13:54 PM

I'll just throw this here (http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showpost.php?p=334939&postcount=33). *cough* As an platform of discussions we've already had and can now carry out. Not to mention you guys could carry on with the idea (http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20633&page=2)of a traitor in your midst too.

Works out well actually, not only do you get the start off point for this threads idea, but you also get the extra plot twists discussed in the other thread too.

Hell...now that I think of it. If the information about Serena was provided by Tear. The situation manipulated by Tear's Inquisitors on the inside to allow Serena to get free also created by Tear. It stands to reason he could plant the information for the doomsday weapon as well. That gives Miranda and the Empire an out for not actually creating the weapon.

Lilaena De'Ville

Jul 6th, 2010, 12:40:13 PM

Serena is worth rescuing because she can knock sense into all these other Jedi who are standing around wagging their fingers at each other and running around in circles.

;)j/k

I like the idea of Tear making it so Serena can escape. It can work into what we've already planned (James telling Barton, Solomon getting a 'feeling'... then Alliance Intel comes up with a 'tip' about her location and a transport schedule [from Tear!]).

Karl Valten

Jul 6th, 2010, 05:05:00 PM

Oh ho, there is much plotting to do here. This story could coincide very well with what Rossos, Kara, Miranda, and I have laid the groundwork for with the INQ.

Tear, we'll have to discuss the superweapon details and the involvement of both sides of the INQ in this. I'd like to bring Inkara Liet in on the brainstorming as well (and Rossos if he's around).

Naomi Lang

Jul 6th, 2010, 06:19:57 PM

Holy Crap! Naomi.

Naomi could help the alliance bust into the Citadel. Hell, TBM is also ex-inquisition.

Captain Untouchable

Jul 6th, 2010, 06:22:46 PM

Tear

Jul 6th, 2010, 08:05:49 PM

Tear - in this scenario, which side would the independents fall on? Would they sit back (if Tear is the mastermind), or would they side with the Rebels to mask their involvement, in one of those duplicitous Palpatine moves? Might be in interesting opportunity to explore why the Independents and the Rebels are different, by seeing them side by side, maybe?

It's always been my intention to try to side with the Rebellion. Both sides are striving for the same goal after all. So depending on how things work out I would hope the Rebellion and the Independents would work together.

Dasquian Belargic

Jul 7th, 2010, 12:56:07 AM

Well, well. This is turning out very interesting indeed.

I am excited for the rescue thread.

Captain Untouchable

Jul 7th, 2010, 07:24:02 AM

If Miranda isn't behind the superweapon, and doesn't condone its use, does that mean she and her loyalists will attempt to stop it as well, or will she just sit back and let it happen in the interests of making the Empire look like a united front?

Miranda Tarkin

Jul 7th, 2010, 01:23:43 PM

I dunno, depends what she and her Master have to say :p I figure that we need a brainstorming sessions dear Tear? ;)

Tannis V'larr

Jul 7th, 2010, 02:51:43 PM

I have some ideas regarding this character and the revelation of the superweapon to the rebels. Karl, Tear, check your PM boxes. I'd like to see if it can be worked in with the rest of what's cooking.

It'll also involve Rogues, Rebel Intel, and whatever other Rebel peeps want to be involved. :)

James Prent

Jul 7th, 2010, 02:58:44 PM

Bette's around if you need her too. I mean, sort of. If you need her. :uhoh

Captain Untouchable

Jul 7th, 2010, 03:52:46 PM

Thinking about it, Vince (Atrapes) and I were spinning ideas about the Corporate Sector maybe building a large ship as part of the arc we were working on. Given the number of businesses like Tagge and Kuat Drive Yards, the CSA probably has the resources to pull it off. since they've always been not quite 100 percent with the Empire, that might help with the separating it from Miranda ... and it could have been done on contract from Tear, to help with that segregation too.

Dasquian Belargic

Jul 7th, 2010, 03:55:34 PM

TaggeCo? Remember they do have loyalties to the Empire :mneh

Eluna Thals

Jul 7th, 2010, 08:39:43 PM

Problem with the CSA is that they've got a rather poisonous relationship with the Pride. One of the conditions, more or less, for Cizerack support in the Independents movement has been more or less a hostile takeover of the CSA's regulatory influence.

Drin Kizael

Jul 8th, 2010, 03:02:50 AM

My only (minor) concern is that I had just got pretty jazzed about a thread idea that would take a few Jedi off on a mission. I just hope there is a long enough time lapse between the action that I could justify being away with them when one of our own is in need.

More to the point, how much longer am I gonna have to go without a lightsabre? :p

If this breakout is happening right away in "game time", followed immediately by another big event, the hunt for Ilum that I was gonna propose would not make much sense.

Even if it's established to be just like 1 week between Big Thread A and Big Thread B, that'd be enough to work with. My sub-plot thread can keep going, but we can justify it taking place before ... well whatever happens in the main plot here, like a crossover issue in comics.

Barton Henning

Jul 8th, 2010, 03:10:49 AM

I don't think running that mission should be a problem really. We have always had a pretty flexible timeline and it will take some time to actually IC draft the plans to rescue Serena. That definitely isn't something we would want to rush into :lol

Captain Untouchable

Jul 8th, 2010, 04:24:54 AM

Would it be easiest if we considered the events of the Big Story as happening in 4 AE?

I don't know what impact that would have on Serena's incarceration (too long?), but at least it would give all the other plot arcs that need to finish beforehand the opportunity to resolve, and avoids us getting into a confusing, tangled, timey-wimey mess.

TaggeCo? Remember they do have loyalties to the Empire :mneh

That's kind of my point. TaggeCo, Kuat Drive Yards, and the new boss, Delgado Xaanan, are all staunchly Imperial. Thus, the supership / superweapon would be built "by the Imperials".

However, that status is relatively new, and they are all businessmen. They could be like the cloners on Kamino - under the impression that an official from the Empire (Tear, perhaps?) had legitimately ordered them to engage in their particular part of the project.

Maybe it's further cloaked by the fact that each business only knows their particular part of it. Kuat Drive Yards could have been provided with the blueprints for the main reactor and the engines. TaggeCo could have been commissioned to build the engines. If there are grav-well generators involved, Sienar Technologies - who build the Interdictors - could have been commissioned to develop those. They'd be sworn to secrecy about the project, because it was "classified". Heck, Dorn Force recently appropriated a weapons developer from a company on Corellia, that might have been developing part of it too, to tie things in further. Presumably, secret military contracts aren't exactly unusual for those sorts of businesses.

Maybe the Inquisitors find out about it, and send the Obi-Wan analogue of this scenario to investigate. They find the weapon and, with the developers assuming it's their benefactor come to collect it, the Inquisitors appropriate the weapon. Miranda is then presented with the superweapon, and is put in the same position as the Jedi Council: forced to use the weapon as part of a Tarkin Doctrine scenario, because the populace is getting too unruly at the thought of a returned Jedi Order, or something.

Problem with the CSA is that they've got a rather poisonous relationship with the Pride. One of the conditions, more or less, for Cizerack support in the Independents movement has been more or less a hostile takeover of the CSA's regulatory influence.

News to me, and I'm supposed to be the head of the CSA. :uhoh

That said, if the CSA is "responsible" for building the weapon, this gives the Cizerack more justification in this particular demand: it would help get more of the Independent systems behind them on the idea, and would ultimately force Tear's hand.

Edit:

What about something like an Eclipse (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Eclipse-class_Star_Destroyer) as our "superweapon"? It has gravity well generators, which would stop an enemy fleet from being able to escape. It's superlaser is only a tenth of the power of the Death Star, but it can easily destroy capital ships, and is "capable of slashing through any planetary shield to crack open a planet's crust and sear entire continental landmasses." That sounds pretty damn menacing. :uhoh

Also, we were talking about having the Jedi / Rebels conquer Naboo at one point. Then we were talking about having some sort of underground insergent movement. What about turning Naboo into our hotspot for this conflict? The Jedi and Rebels could maybe oust the Empire from Theed... and then we could fracture the planet between the three factions, each one trying to gain the upper hand and majority control. There could even be Imperial insurgents, which would give the Empire a taste of being the underdogs, like Droo was suggesting earlier in the thread.

Barton Henning

Jul 8th, 2010, 05:30:47 AM

I see that the Eclipse was built 6 years after Endor.. so we could feasibly be working towards having the technology for that now. I personally would rather that the superweapon is a ship, than say a virus or somesuch.

Naboo.. I would like to see the liberation of Naboo, and if that were to take place alongside what is going on, it would give the Alliance a boost in confidence I would imagine. Perhaps we can even bring the KA into that somehow.. since Naboo is a feudral matriarchy. They might appeal to somewhere like Onderon, knowing of their similiar social structure, independence and allegiance to the Hapes Consortium, for assistance.

Captain Untouchable

Jul 8th, 2010, 06:08:18 AM

Technically they aren't a matriarchy - its just that their last few diplomatically elected leaders have been Queens, IIRC. There have been kings in the past, I think. Could be misremembering my Star Wars trivia, of course. Doesn't change that the KA might be involved, of course - just means the next leader doesn't necessarily have to be a woman.

Dasquian Belargic

Jul 8th, 2010, 06:28:13 AM

That's true. They have had a Queen for about the last 500 years though, and according to Wookieepedia they have a tendency for electing young women into high public office.. so it's a factor that we can probably play safely to our advantage :)

Captain Untouchable

Jul 8th, 2010, 09:22:04 AM

Fair enough. Not really sure what my point was, anyway. :lol

Captain Untouchable

Jul 9th, 2010, 07:57:45 PM

For reference, I did a quick tweak of one of the maps from the new Star Wars Atlas, so we can see the sorts of stuff we're discussing. I've jiggled with the contrast, so don't worry about not being able to read the names: it's the dispersal of the coloured dots that's most important.

As it stands, the galaxy looks like this (http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/o6untouchable/Fans/Map/Map_Current.png). There are some green dots representing the Hutts, but they're fairly content doing their own thing, for the most part. There are a few orange dots representing the Rebellion, too, but they're too spaced out to be any kind of significant threat. On top of that, there are some blue worlds which are technically allies, rather than members - the Corporate Sector and Corellia, for example.

Based on what has been talked about in this thread, and in associated ones, when we're done, the galaxy will look like this (http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/o6untouchable/Fans/Map/Map_Endgame1.png). There's a pretty big clump of overtly Independent worlds up in the northeast corner, and while there are planets within that which aren't actively opposed to the Empire, Tear has a sufficiently consolodated blob to be a definate threat to the Empire.

The Rebels on the other hand, while they've gained a blob around Onderon and Hapes (I gave them Kashyyyk too, since they've been after it for ages), but everything else is still pretty spread out. Not really much of a threat: they're still predominantly an insurgent force, rather than a "rival nation".

Of course, when the Rebels had a decisive victory at Endor, a bunch of planets flocked to their banner, initially forming the Alliance of Free Planets, before eventually becoming the New Republic. Some of those worlds are now part of Tear's Independents, but if the rest were to join up with the Alliance, the galaxy would look like this (http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/o6untouchable/Fans/Map/Map_Endgame2.png). Much more consolodated, and much more like a force to be reckoned with.

Where am I going with this? Well, yes, we do have the EU precedent of planets just signing themselves over to the Rebels after they whoop the Empire during a single battle. However, that is kinda dull. It might be more interesting if at least some of those worlds were tied in with the Big Story somehow.

Take Kashyyyk for instance: sitting there, right next to Hapes. The Rebels have been trying to liberate it for ages, but we never quite seem to succeed. What if, as an example, we were once again struggling against the Imperials there... and all of a sudden, an attack wing from the Hapan Navy shows up, turns the tide, and hands us the victory? We then discover that the wing has been sent by Salem Ave, as a way of establishing contact with the Rebel Alliance: part of a prelude to Onderon and Hapes becoming members. Far more dynamic than simply sending an ambassador to Sullust or somewhere. And, because the Imperials got a beat-down in the process, it's yet another reason for using the superweapon to start looking like a good idea.

If you skim over the EU timeline, and look at the number of small skirmishes and battles that led up to Yavin or Endor, it might help the "Bigness" of our Big Story to include some tidbits like that.

A random aside: what happened to Endor's moon after the battle? In the EU, the Rebels made an effort to put out the fires, and undo some of the damage wrought by falling debris from the Death Star. I'm guessing that the Imperials didn't really give a womp rat's ass though; so what happened? Ewok mass extinction? Or have they been left to their own devices, and are now busily reverse-engineering themselves a wooden AT-ST?

Tear

Jul 9th, 2010, 08:26:40 PM

Sweet map man!

I'm not sure what happened to Endor after the battle. I know there was talk between the Imps back in the day about taking vengeance on them but, that was just talk. Dunno' if anything was actually done.

Chir'daki

Jul 10th, 2010, 01:48:17 PM

Where does Black Sun fall in all this? Are they going to try and profit as best they can from the Independents and the Galactic Empire (the Rebellion doesn't really have many holdings where they can exercise much of an influence), or is the association between the boss-lady and Tear going to effectively ally Black Sun with the Independents?

Dasquian Belargic

Jul 10th, 2010, 01:50:59 PM

Now that is a conflict of interests, right there. I think Black Nebula is what falls under Miranda's influence, and Black Sun is Sassy's. Unless they kissed and made up and I forgot about it.

:mischief

Captain Untouchable

Jul 10th, 2010, 02:25:27 PM

There was a great deal of chit, and chat around the water cooler concerning the smushing of the two back together again, but I don't think we actually got anything done on that front... but the general consensus seemed to be "go for it".

I certainly would have remembered if there was kissing involved. :mischief

Lilaena De'Ville

Jul 12th, 2010, 10:45:14 PM

I don't want Serena 'in captivity' for more than maybe a few months. If we push it farther than that then the timeline gets a little crazy for me and my other characters. Of course, it is right now pretty crazy because I've not been adding my stuff to it. :ohno

Tarrick Ragnus

Jul 12th, 2010, 11:02:26 PM

Takes a wrench and throws it in the gears.

What if the reason for this war isn't a superweapon? What if it is a face for the Katana Fleet? With the new timeline, the fleet is still out there. That's two hundred dreads that would make anyone search for them.

I'm already setting up a mission where I begin down that road.

Lilaena De'Ville

Jul 13th, 2010, 12:00:24 AM

OMG I was just thinking about that fleet and couldn't remember the name of it.

Spooky!

Captain Untouchable

Jul 13th, 2010, 06:50:27 AM

I'm not sure that the Katana Fleet alone would accomplish what we're looking for, in terms of story.

Two hundred ships are much harder to effectively destroy than one supership. If the Imperials got their hands on the Katana Fleet, that makes them stronger; and even if the Rebels manage to defeat the fleet, it in no way weakens the Empire in the long run: we don't tip the balance of the Galactic Civil War in favour of the Rebels. There's no morality aspect there either: no one will be driven to the Rebel cause by the heinous actions of the Empire.

While allowing the Rebels to get the Katana Fleet would certainly tip the balance in military terms, there still isn't a moral or political component. Worse, "the terrorists" gaining a scary number of new ships might make systems more likely to remain loyal to the Empire out of fear; rather than making the righteous and moral choice to defect to the "good guys".

What about combining the two, though? The Imperials get their superweapon; and the Rebels find the Katana Fleet to help destroy it. We can throw all two hundred Dreadnaughts at the superweapon, and then any ships that survive then get absorbed into the Alliance Navy, making them an even more formidable opponent to the Imperials.

That conveniently solves the problem of "How do we defeat a supership without it costing us most of the Rebel Navy in the process?" too.